tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[RhienneAgain]

A few thoughts on this episode:

 

Liked

• acting/actors for Logain, Liandrin, Steppin, Moiraine, Perrin, Egwene, and Rand - all really spot on this week, I thought.  Logain and Liandrin in particular have perfectly captured the feel of the characters from the books while handling material that is new to the TV adaption to the extent that I forget what's book canon and what isn't when I'm watching them.
• sets and costumes
• the 'feel' of the tinkers and the atmosphere around their campfires
• the writing for Perrin and Ila's conversations
• the fight scene between Thom and the Fade - Fade movements were fab.
• depictions of shielding and linking were great, I thought, and the subtler reactions of the Aes Sedai around this (particularly Moiraine reacting to Logain's strength when she took the shield)

Disliked

• Going to be against the grain here but Nynaeve really wasn't doing it for me in this episode.  I think the actor is fine, it's more the writing I have issue with.  A couple of the scenes just seemed so far from how book Nynaeve would have behaved that I'm getting the impression the writers haven't understood her character at all, e.g. her opening up about her childhood trauma to Lan (Nynaeve would never give away anything that would make her vulnerable!), and her willingness to join the Warder's campfire - not something I can see book Nynaeve doing.
• Nynaeve's raging sun moment.  I kind of don't know where they go with her character from here if she's already capable of this kind of thing with zero training.  It also seems bizarre that she would have this massive emotional reaction allowing her to channel for a bunch of Aes Sedai and Warders that she doesn't know or like very much, yet have zero channeling reaction to her HOME AND LOVED ONES being destroyed by trollocs only a few days earlier.
• Lan.  Meh, something about him just doesn't feel 'rock-like' enough to me.  The stoicism and aloofness that I got from book-Lan isn't there.
• the physical depiction of the Tinkers themselves.  It reminds me too much of the Gyptians from 'His Dark Materials' and feels derivative.
• The warder campfire scene. The whole thing seemed forced and uncomfortable.
• The Moiraine/Lan vibe - my husband is a non reader and I'm a long-time book fan and both of us got the impression the writers wanted us to think there's something between them. I'm guessing this is to make more of a love triangle between Lan, Moiraine, and Nynaeve.

Edited November 26, 2021 by RhienneAgain

[ArrylT]

Just finished my 2nd run through of the episode - like the others - gets better on a re-watch.

 

If I had to guess, it looked like Logain was attempting to channel when the one power burst out of Nynaeve, so it seems like her power destroyed his weave.   

[MasterAblar]

4 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

As to MasterAblar's statement on the previous page re: Steppin, I took that to mean he was laughing at Nyn's reaction, not Lan and Moiraine; it was the chuckle of a man watching someone fall for his friend.

 

 

Sure, I can see that too.

 

4 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

And re:" Liandrin saying it's far harder to maintain a shield than to break through it... is weird" it may have to do with a change in the way shields work for the TV show; if they're changing them so people can reach the source, but not doing anything with it, than if the shielded person keeps drawing, it increases the pressure pressing against the shield from the inside and , and becomes harder and harder to hold. But all the person inside is doing is drawing on the power, which is easy

 

 

Possibly yes. I'm pretty sure that constantly channeling even if you're not doing anything with it would still be tiring though. It's hard to say what they're doing with the shielding to be honest. They're clearly trying to make it more visible, but is there a moment where is someone is completely prevented from reaching the source? When Logain was first shielded that seemed to be the case, with him simply exerting pressure on the shield, but no evidence of him actually reaching the source (no weaves of saiding covered in the taint). Later he had clearly reached saiding even as Moiraine and Liandrin were attempting to shield him, and could shatter Stepin's axes.

 

Obviously it's looking at the minute details but I'd be curious to know how it works exactly in the show, if it's different at all in any way but visual.

[RhienneAgain]

R.e. the shielding, it looks to me like the shielded channeler can channel inside the shield, which is quite a deviation from the books - think Nynaeve and Rand scrabbling for weak points in their shields to reach the source - albeit, probably not a significant one in terms of plot points.

 

 

To me the scene with Logain and Steppin looked like Logain was able to block the axes with saidin once they passed through the shield but couldn't get any weaves past the shield.

[SinisterDeath]

34 minutes ago, Agitel said:

immediately following conversation between Lan and Moiraine, though, makes it clear that interaction was platonic. There's no sexual tension in that ending, and I'd be upset and sensitive to it if I thought there was any

Yeah the Audience knows it's platonic (or should). But it's also true that Nynaeve doesn't know.

[Agitel]

6 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

R.e. the shielding, it looks to me like the shielded channeler can channel inside the shield, which is quite a deviation from the books - think Nynaeve and Rand scrabbling for weak points in their shields to reach the source - albeit, probably not a significant one in terms of plot points.

 

 

To me the scene with Logain and Steppin looked like Logain was able to block the axes with saidin once they passed through the shield but couldn't get any weaves past the shield.

 

I think the shield wasn't fully in place and he was still trying to fight it off in that scene.

[JenniferL]

2 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

R.e. the shielding, it looks to me like the shielded channeler can channel inside the shield, which is quite a deviation from the books - think Nynaeve and Rand scrabbling for weak points in their shields to reach the source - albeit, probably not a significant one in terms of plot points.

 

 

To me the scene with Logain and Steppin looked like Logain was able to block the axes with saidin once they passed through the shield but couldn't get any weaves past the shield.

 

It’s definitely a change from the books. I suspect they made this change purposefully so that it’s easier to show channelers breaking free. 

[MasterAblar]

7 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

R.e. the shielding, it looks to me like the shielded channeler can channel inside the shield, which is quite a deviation from the books - think Nynaeve and Rand scrabbling for weak points in their shields to reach the source - albeit, probably not a significant one in terms of plot points.

 

 

To me the scene with Logain and Steppin looked like Logain was able to block the axes with saidin once they passed through the shield but couldn't get any weaves past the shield.

 

 

That would be quite a significant change though. There's a lot of things you could do even in the small area you have. I'm hoping that at the end he simply wasn't entirely shielded. Which would make sense in my opinion since he blew past Liandrin and Karene quite easily. 

[MasterAblar]

Also worth pointing out (again looking at small details that are probably not significant but still):

 

When Logain shatters the axes, he also shatters the shield, and that's before the shards strike Liandrin and Moiraine. Might mean nothing but to me he was evidently still able to channel there.

 

Another detail I really liked was the juxtaposition of Rand in tear and reeling from being gentled, and Steping holding a dead Karene. A very nice visual representation of the pain caused by the tainting of saidin and unbalancing of the world.

Edited November 26, 2021 by MasterAblar

[Elder_Haman]

I think the issue is that Logain was already holding the source. It’s more difficult to cut a man off when he isn’t holding saidin than when he is. 

[Reader]

"There! A shield slammed against him, but Rand had had just enough time to prepare. He channeled Spirit in the tempest, weaving by instinct from Lews Therin’s memories, and rebuffed the shield. He shoved it away, but could not destroy it."

 

[Seraphine]

Probably my favorite episode thus far.

 

Loved:

*the cold open with Logain and the depiction of saidin

*Scene with Lan and Nynaeve where we see their bond developing

*multiple scenes where we're getting good character/emotional work layered with world building (Perrin and Ila--Way of the Leaf; Rand and Thom--male channeling; Lan and Nynaeve--Malkier, Old Tongue).

*loved seeing depictions of different warder/Aes Sedai relationships

*the Warder's campfire--you get more info about the Aes Sedai and warder/Aes Sedai relationships, but I also love how it shows their brotherhood/connections to one another

*this version of Liandrin--she's different than my head canon but better

*the depiction of how the Fade moved

*how they are showing the effects of the dagger on Mat

*overall, lots of really good character moments

 

Things that worked better for me than previous episodes:

*better pacing and fewer moments of clunky dialogue

*The depiction of the Tinkers in episode 3 bothered me. The Tinkers emerging in the mist and things seeming all eerie and drab was weird. The wagons and dancing this week were much more resonant for me

 

Things that didn't quite work for me:

*The battle in the woods (aside from Alanna's initial arrow trick) didn't quite have enough oomph. But this isn't why I'm watching the show (and there have been other One Power moments that have really hit me).

*Moiraine's self-doubt in her convo with Lan. I'm not against Moiraine's frustration that she lost the other EF youngsters, and I'm not anti- the "Who is the DR?" question that is driving season 1 of the TV show. However, her wondering about Logain didn't strike me as authentic

[Sabio]

Anyone else notice how hard the series is trying to change things so there is no mention or hint of the BA yet?   Kerenne dying to Logain, the seven sisters who went out to look for the Dragon dying to the white cloaks.

 

 

Moiraine knew exactly when the Dragon was reborn and Logain is clearly too old.  So I agree her self doubt made no sense at all.  She has been pretty useless so far.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Sabio

[king of nowhere]

logain was handled so well. his scene with the (unnamed) king of ghealdan... everyone is expecting him to kill, his madness (nice foreshadowing for when it will happen to rand, btw) pushing him to kill... but he resists that, saying he wants to do better.

he'd have been a fine dragon too.

and then, during the final battle, we get a shot at the king of ghealdan. he's been still following logain, he was actually persuaded. i was moved to tears.

it's such a great way to capture logain's character. his darkness, his goodness, his charisma. loved it.

 

then there was thom. i am sad that we didn't get to spend more time with him - yet. looking forward to seeing him again. also, they decided to show earlier that mat is getting corrupted by mashadar. for a moment you think mat may have killed the family, until the fade appears. well done.

 

nynaeve healing people just like that... nope. didn't resonate for me. such power comes too much out of the blue, and it's too much for her being untrained. i really liked how they handled it in the books much, much better.

 

so, ups and downs, as usual. but the ups win, again as usual.

1 hour ago, JenniferL said:

I do occasionally wonder if we’ve all been reading the same books. 

 

we've all been reading the same books, but we've all been reading different things in them

 

[Agitel]

1 minute ago, Sabio said:

Anyone else notice how hard the series is trying to change things so there is no mention or hint of the BA yet?   Kerenne dying to Logain, the seven sisters who went out to look for the Dragon dying to the white cloaks.

 

I think it's just pacing how fast they're rolling out new information and antagonistic organizations. I've no doubt they'll be introduced.

[Harad the White]

1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

We've kind of moved from "the show is not like the books" into "the show is including stuff from the books!" territory.  

A statistical analysis is required to see what the chances are for a TV series and a series of Books having the same characters, the same world, and the same plot, albeit in different order with different em-pha-sis. It's almost as fantastic as the Wheel of Time.

[JaimAybara]

1 hour ago, MasterAblar said:

A few more things come to mind about the episode;

- Liandrin saying it's far harder to maintain a shield than to break through it... is weird.

Yeah, can they not tie the shields anymore? One would think the other Aes sedai could at least tie off extra shields that he has to deal with before the active shields…/will we get 7+ maintaining shields at any point? I feel like we need more information. 

[Pandemonium]

any notice the details of how Liandrin captured Logain?  She said she took a page out of Moraine's book and snuck into camp and used lighting.  That is basically how they rescued Perrin and Egwene from the whitecloaks.  will be interesting to see if this same plan will play out this season

[Gibbo7420]

10 hours ago, divica said:

The thing is that she could have healed everybody without the "fireworks" and have logain in awe of her ability without repeating moiraine's words about the dragon's power and it would have fit much better.

 

The more I watch the show the more it feels that who wrote it has no sense of how to tell a story. All he wants is to have people talking about who the dragon is and he has no subtlety in how to do it.

The question is, and nobody else seems to have grasped this yet, is that in the books, a man could only sense a woman channelling because he got goosebumps. So how could Logain have seen the power of Nyn's healing?

[MasterAblar]

4 minutes ago, Gibbo7420 said:

The question is, and nobody else seems to have grasped this yet, is that in the books, a man could only sense a woman channelling because he got goosebumps. So how could Logain have seen the power of Nyn's healing?

 

I was established that they couldn't see his weaves and it is almost certainly true that he cannot see hers. He was most likely reacting to the effect of her weaves, which is to say the blinding light. He has no idea how powerful she actually is. 

[KakitaOCU]

6 minutes ago, Gibbo7420 said:

The question is, and nobody else seems to have grasped this yet, is that in the books, a man could only sense a woman channelling because he got goosebumps. So how could Logain have seen the power of Nyn's healing?

Could just be that he just got done taking out a dozen or more people and with one single scream she put them all back to health.

[Arie]

5 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Yeah, can they not tie the shields anymore? One would think the other Aes sedai could at least tie off extra shields that he has to deal with before the active shields…/will we get 7+ maintaining shields at any point? I feel like we need more information. 

For weaker, it's possible. But if memory serves me correctly, without a significant amount of linking it's very difficult. 
 

[Brytac]

Well one thing is for sure...im pleased Game of Thrones followed the books very closely(certainly early on).

 

The books become popular because they are good....they dont need fundamentally changing.

 

Im a little baffled by WOT at the moment, its almost like they have taken the setting and characters...and have decided Jordans story is not acceptable/good and want to use his work on a story of their own.

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

8 minutes ago, Brytac said:

Well one thing is for sure...im pleased Game of Thrones followed the books very closely(certainly early on).

 

The books become popular because they are good....they dont need fundamentally changing.

 

Im a little baffled by WOT at the moment, its almost like they have taken the setting and characters...and have decided Jordans story is not acceptable/good and want to use his work on a story of their own.

 

 

Most call that sort of thing "fan fiction."

[Mailman]

Easily the best of the episodes so far.

 

thought the magic visuals where very good allthough the standing still to weave/cast may be a issue in later episodes

 

Did not like the sparring between the warders throwing the sword up in the air and such just looked silly

 

For a show with such a big budget the size of the forces is very small, Aes Sedai camp seemingly only having warders and no other troops, Logains army seemingly only a couple of hundred troops at the most makes it feel very amateur.