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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Elder_Haman

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  1. For sure this. Also Rand in the apple orchard.
  2. No doubt. Jordan's world-building and his ability to weave in religious and socio-political themes that transcend his world and remain relevant in ours is second to none save Tolkien. Wheel of Time truly is a masterpiece. But you can't do all of it on tv. It's impossible and the project will collapse under the weight of that burden. A successful tv series makes the world feel real by sprinkling lore in, not by drumming the audience over the head with it. More importantly, a successful tv adaptation is going to have to emphasize the personal over fidelity to the books. Audiences must bond with the characters - love them, hate them, fear for them, triumph with them. Broad audiences won't bond with the plot or the symbolism or the themes. The problem with adapting the Forsaken is that - in the books - Jordan doesn't spend much time with them. They rarely act directly on the main characters, choosing instead to direct events from afar. Their methods and motivations make sense on the page, but will require tons of very boring exposition to bring to the screen. Keeping all thirteen also lowers the stakes. If the main characters are constantly besting the most powerful allies of the Dark One, they cease to have any weight. TV and movie audiences don't like poorly developed, impersonal bad guys. No one wants a situation where the only people who can tell you the name of the big bad guy that just got defeated are the dedicated fans of the books. (An example: the Sand Snakes from GoT - what were their names? Did their depictions in the HBO series do justice to the source material?) If you really want to do a powerful adaptation, the Forsaken we see on screen must all be fully developed, easily identifiable characters with clear motivations. They need to be frightening antagonists and characters that strike genuine fear in the viewers. You simply can't do that with the source material as written.
  3. This is very true. Although the "slog" books I think are fairly easily condensed into a single season with a timeline that actually makes sense.
  4. I always read it as Mat purposefully writing like an illiterate because that's how he believes Elayne perceives him. He isn't an illiterate, he's playing to stereotype. Which is definitely something Mat Cauthon would do.
  5. I enjoyed the Dragon Prince series. It was a pretty cool magic system. Some good political plotting/intrigue/betrayal story lines. It was a little heavy on the romance for my tastes and her characters were only okay. But the series is a good read.
  6. Yes. I should have made that explicit. Moridin is a special case.
  7. I get your point. But what if you simply never mention the number at all? You don't need to change the lore entirely to simply write around it. This is a good example of the mammoth task of adapting this series. Jordan's biggest strength, by far, was his worldbuilding. But you simply can't transmit all of the lore from the books. The same goes for the wonderful, complex political and religious themes. I get the importance of 13 Forsaken to the overall story, the themes he was commenting on, all of it. But there are just too many of them and they are too all over the place (with reincarnations, behind the scenes maneuvering, secret meetings) to put on the screen. They're going to have to do some tinkering, otherwise I think the show will end up being a mess.
  8. What if it's a pump fake? Moiraine is led to believe he is one of the Forsaken to divert attention from actual Forsaken. It could be used as a vehicle for increasing the conflict between Rand and Moiraine.
  9. It seems that most are in agreement that there will need to be some major changes made to the Forsaken for purposes of the tv show. I'll take a shot at predicting what they'll do with each. Aginor: I believe Aginor will be at the confrontation at the Eye. He is a good character to use to explain the creation of the shadowspawn and since he is in the text, it makes sense to keep him. I would write him as being clearly in service to Ba'alzamon - furthering the idea that Ba'alzamon = the Dark One. Asmodean: I would keep Asmodean's arc basically the same, though he will die in the confrontation with Rahvin. No balefire resurrection. Balthamel: He's out. Including his incarnation as Aran'gar. Be'lal: Also out. I'm going to give his role to Rahvin. Moiraine will injure, not kill him in the Stone - forcing him to retreat. Demandred: He's Taim. Graendal: I'm going to combine her with Moghedien. Yes, they have wildly different personalities. But for purposes of the tv show, you can combine the two story arcs. She can still capture and torture Nynaeve. She can still be captured and still escape. She can then be subjected to the mind trap. She can then start messing around in Arad Doman. She will die at Natrin's Barrow, but can be resurrected, named Hessalam, and given to Slayer for the last battle. Ishamael: His arc remains basically untouched. (Although, I remove him from the Eye altogether. Rand can believe he's killed the Dark One when he kills Aginor) Lanfear: She stays. She never becomes Cyndane though. She's just rescued by the Dark One and remains Lanfear. Her arc - including her final fate - are otherwise unchanged. Mesaana: I'm combining her with Alviarin. Egwene reveals her as a darkfriend after Verin dies, not realizing that she's actually Mesaana. Alviarin escapes (leaving the other black sisters to their fates) then dies in the confrontation with Egwene in T'a'R. Moghedien: See Graendal. Rahvin: He stays in the same role. I might eliminate the time bending via balefire at the end of their confrontation. (I dislike too many resurrections, they lower the stakes) Sammael: His plot stays in. But he's no longer one of the Forsaken. He's just a friend of the dark with a ton of political and military power. Semirhage: She stays, but amplified. Since she is so good with the Mask of Mirrors, she can become a shapeshifting villain. It might be fun to combine her with the gholam. As fun as Mat's final encounter with the gholam is, it isn't strictly necessary. Anyway, that's just a few thoughts. Interested to hear what the rest of y'all think.
  10. 100% this. Post Dumai's Wells, people who have not read the books need to start seeing Rand as someone who will turn out to be the villain/primary antagonist. Where Danerys turn to mass murdering facist autocrat came completely out of the blue, that should appear to be a perfectly plausible outcome for Rand after DW. And the scene itself needs to be handled so carefully on so many levels. Rand's confinement in "the box", the ascendancy of Lews Therin, the sheer horror of the battle, the ominous nature of the Asha'man, the fulfilling of prophecy.
  11. Mat giving backstories to the Band after Hinderstaap
  12. I think so too. The Seafolk are toast.
  13. She needs to be the "main character" in 2 or 3 scenes which can all be filmed as cold opens, tags, or scene intros - the little scenes that set up the action we are about to see. For example - we open in a Seanchan naval office. The Seeker is interrogating Egeanin. The dialogue allows a vehicle for some exposition on what Eggy is doing in Tanchico. Viewers are reminded of the dangers the Seanchan present to our heroes who can channel. Following this, Eggy leaves the office and walks out onto the docks... ...where the camera cuts to Nynaeve vomiting over the side of a ship as the girls arrive in Tanchico. Maybe Elayne takes notice and tries to hide Nynaeve. Either way, we've spent maybe 2 minutes with Egeanin. Everything that needs to be accomplished in terms of her subplot is accomplished. We've also raised the stakes. The girls are in Tanchico looking for the Black, which is where they expect danger. But now the audience knows that there is a second source of danger and, for now, our heroes don't know about it. Telling Egeanin's story does not require a substantial amount of screen time. It just doesn't.
  14. I really feel like replacing the Shaido with Masema and the Dragonsworn is the way to go. First, there's no real reason there have to be channelers at Malden. No channelers means no reason to find massive quantities of forkroot. That means no need to work with or involve the Seanchan, which is fine since that relationship never pays off anyway. (Someone else can tell Tuon that the Dragon's people are okay) But, if you want to have the Seanchan you can. Both could be looking to stop Masema and could still become allies in the effort for reasons that will be easy enough to concoct. Rewriting Masema to make him both more nuanced and more of a threat would play huge dividends for Perrin's arc. It could force Perrin into a choice between disobeying Rand and doing what's right. (A choice that Sanderson/Jordan bail him out of by letting Faile do it) And you can also write Faile's kidnapping in a way that puts more tension into Perrin's choices. Instead of FIND FAILE, it becomes rescue Faile in a way that doesn't allow Masema to have his followers execute Perrin.
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