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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Samt

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  1. There are two related but ultimately separate subjective questions that I think are getting conflated in this thread. 1. Do the romances feel healthy, satisfying, and good for the characters involved? 2. Does the writing of the romances by RJ and BS make them feel realistic, do they work for what else we know about the characters, do they contribute to the overall story, plot, and character development, and does it feel like the romance is well explained to the reader? Of course, both of these questions are at least somewhat subjective and can have reasonable differences of opinion. But it only makes sense to discuss things when we agree which of these questions we are answering. For instance, I would rank Thom and Moiraine quite highly on the first question. I'm somewhat of a sucker for a good happy ending and I think both of these characters deserve a happily ever after. They both seem mature and well adjusted and reasonably able to make each other happy. That said, this relationship gets low marks on the second question. It doesn't really develop the characters or plot (other than creating a pretense for Moiraine's letter) and kind of drops out of nowhere. We don't get much POV from the participants and it doesn't really have any sort of buildup. It also doesn't really ask any interesting questions for the reader or make any interesting points about society or life or anything else. On the other hand, a contrasting relationship would be Tylin/Mat (not really a "romance" but still in the same category). It gets abysmally low marks on the first question for obvious reasons. However, it does tell us something about the characters, develops Mat, fleshes out the world, and builds the story. It also feels realistic in a somewhat cynical way. Moreover, the fact that it is a gender swap from what we would usually expect in this type of relationship raises interesting questions about sexual roles, society, and our notions of what is right and wrong, and how wrong something is. For that reason, I give it a high rating in regard to the second question.
  2. I don't mean to be moving the goalposts. I meant my tentpole comment as somewhat tongue in cheek. To be more clear, I think 80k viewers a week is awful. Not even breaking 1 million viewers in 3 months is terrible, especially since some of that is probably people that are re-watching. Much has been said about how the show needs to appeal to more than just the book audience in order to be successful. But over 100 million books have been sold. Accounting for 15 books in the series, over 7 million copies of the series have probably been sold. If the show had just gotten everyone who bought the books to watch it, it would be 7 times more successful than it is today. In other words, if just making a show for book readers was not financially viable, how is 80k viewers a week anything but abysmal?
  3. I don't think you are doing the math correctly. The figure as I understand it is 80 million minutes, not 80 million episode views. There are 16 episodes in the series and approximately 60 minutes per episode. Thus, 960 minutes per series view. 80M minutes is thus only slightly more than 80,000 series views (per week). That is not nothing, but hardly a tentpole. If that level of viewership is maintained for a year, you would barely break 4 million views of the series.
  4. It’s not Narnia or Star Wars. Other than New Spring, publication order is in universe chronological order and the books are intended to be read like that. New Spring probably shouldn’t be read before a certain point. I like it at the end.
  5. I actually like Thom/Moiraine myself. I just don't think we really get much of the backstory. I think part of the problem is that we just don't get any of their POV on the subject.
  6. I would add Siuan/Gareth, Moiraine/Thom, and Galad/Berelain as main character romances. That said, those 3 definitely feel a bit like extra people getting paired (feels like Pierre/Natasha to me). I think that to really rate the romances, you need some criteria. In particular, I would suggest categories such as 1. Relationship health 2. Believability 3. Enjoyability to reader.
  7. Wouldn't it be better for Setalle to meet Damer Flinn so she can be restored to full power?
  8. Berelain is definitely not not a psycho. She just knows how to play it a little better.
  9. Does it ever say how old Faile is? I always assumed she was roughly the same age as Perrin. And Berelain starts the series in her early twenties. She’s barely a bit older than the main characters. As far as experience and travel, Faile is the one traveling on her own. They both grew up in a royal court and were raised to navigate tricky politics.
  10. Does the domination band work for a man to control a woman? I assumed it only worked as woman controlling man. This would be a result of the fact that men can't start a circle and the domination bands (and a'dam) are just circle forcers. That said, a regular a'dam should be sufficient to make any of the Sul'dam channel so long as any channeling woman is holding the leash. I don't think the domination band needs to be involved.
  11. You said nine but then listed eight people. Is Nynaeve meant to be the ninth? She rides Bela in TEoTW when rescuing Perrin and Egwene from the whitecloak camp.
  12. I think it depends on what you mean by "the next Game of Thrones." To me, that's really just a reference to the fact that a fantasy epic made it into mainstream TV. Ultimately, that's a goal, not a plan or direction. If you're saying that they are making it too dark and lascivious, I would agree. But I don't think that is the main problem. I think that the main problem is that it doesn't feel there is an ultimate vision of the story that they are trying to tell and they have strayed too far from the books to just say that they are telling the story that is in the books. It really feels like they are making it up as they go along. Maybe there will be payoff for changes that they are doing intentionally, but I am skeptical.
  13. I think book oaths don’t either. It got added in in some wiki and now gets brought up but it’s apocryphal.
  14. Yeah, I really liked Dobraine. If there is one minor complaint about the BS conclusion that I am far more bitter about than I should be, it’s that Dobraine doesn’t do anything after angry Rand sends him away. He needs a conclusion.
  15. Even if this were true, that's a huge thing to have as an "aside." A season finale is supposed to bring together the threads and deliver payoffs for the seeds have been planted. We can't just pretend it didn't happen. What are we supposed to assume is in its place? A good show? Why do we need TV at all? Let's just pretend it's a good show.
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