Is it confirmed that "Great Lord" is not ever used as an address for any other entity?

You mean sort of like how literally any WoT show would have increased the exposure of the WoT IP? So you're saying it was actually a good analogy.

Glad liked it.

Gatekeeping aside, this argument feels a bit like, "Hitler made the trains run on time." It's no doubt that the show has increased the reach and engagement of WoT books and IP in general. But a faithful adaptation would have done that, too. Just like the holocaust didn't make the trains run on time.

I think you could one-shot it. But you would need major buy-in and funding which I understand just didn't exist. We're talking a budget in the billions and actors and writers committed full-time for 1-2 years.

Frankly, I don't think the series is filmable as a 12 year project. The decision to slow roll it that much kind of baffles me. There is a reason that Peter Jackson filmed LOTR in one shot even though he was planning to release 3 films.

I don't believe I've ever said that it doesn't qualify as "The Wheel of Time" as currently constituted. In any case, I didn't mean to. (My point about fan fiction was to say that the reason it isn't fan fiction is because it still includes many scenes and plot points from the books) My main points are: 1. Many scenes and even entire episodes (and arcs for certain characters across multiple episodes) are entirely novel and contain no content from the books. As such, even if the series as a whole is still recognizable, many parts taken in a vacuum aren't but for the proper nouns and specific lore terms. 2. As the series continues, these novel scenes will have ripple effects that make it harder and harder to include the scenes from the books without significant re-writes. This will probably make it feel more and more divorced from the books over time. In regards to your reticence, I'm not sure why my position on the previous seasons is relevant. Hindsight is 20/20 and let's you re-frame what is important based on what happens. A good list overall. A few points I would contest. --Perrin isn't guilty when he meets the Tinkers in the book because he hasn't killed anyone yet. --Rand fighting Ishamael at TEOTW in the books is so different that I'm not sure I really count that. --Having Perrin and the Shienarians hunting for the horn is a bit bold considering that Rand is supposed to be there and is the main protagonist of that sequence (Mat should be there, too, but it's Rand's absence that changes it completely. --Nynaeve's accepted test is completely changed from the books and is nonsensical as a test as it's shown in the show. --Elyas and Hopper come at a completely different part of the book. I think order matters, too, at least a little bit. --Nynaeve and Elayne capturing the suldam doesn't actually do anything in the show. In regards to this and the previous point, I started to feel in season 2 that the showrunners are trying to hit certain scenes because they think they are important, but they have changed enough that the scenes no longer make sense in their original place. As far as iconic things that have been cut and can't really happen anymore in a meaningful way: --Rand meeting Elayne (and Gawyn, Galad, Morgase, Elaida, Gareth) in the palace. --Lan teaching Rand --Bayle Domon (yeah, I know he was there, but that was literally just proper nouns). -- As I said above, I don't really think that it isn't the WoT, yet. But I don't think they have set themselves up well for it to really be WoT all the way through. And I also don't think it is well made or conceived. Thanks for sharing some good thoughts on future seasons. I think they are good points and I do expect to see most of it. Some other things that I think you have to include if you want it to be WoT: --Rand pulls the sword from the stone. --Mat goes through the arches. These two moments define the paths of these two protagonists more than probably any other moments in the early books. In many ways, both of these events do weird things to the plot, the power balance, and the concept of free will vs. destiny that the books are presenting. But really that weirdness makes them inalienable parts of the plot since it's also a big part of what makes the characters unique.

True. Technically you said that some parts of the story are mandatory but you won't describe exactly which ones lest you be held to your answer at a later date through this "gotcha" question. Also relationships and development in a wishy washy enough way that it has no real concrete meaning. I mean, your checklist of key characters that need to have the same development includes Min. Who is completely different in the show. How is that a meaningful list at all?

Yeah, "fan fiction" can be used as a simple pejorative, but I gave a specific explanation of how I was using it. Fan fiction as I am using it specifically means that the setting and characters are largely preserved but the events of the story are novel. If you don't like the term "fan fiction" all I'm saying is I think there is a difference between "The Wheel of Time" and a story set in the WoT universe. The Amazon series tends to lean more towards being the second. I get the idea of increasing the reach of the series and how the show has been good overall in doing that. But that is ignoring the central question of this thread and the complaint that is being brought. The show could have been much more faithful to the books. While some changes were necessary, this isn't just a case of budget, or screentime, or needing to be able to make the story make sense while telling it in a different format. It's clear that the showrunners made lots of changes for their own artistic reasons. This isn't really about engaging different perspectives. The original Wheel of Time story from the books isn't engaging any new perspectives because it isn't contained in the show. Lest that seem like an overstatement, consider that you have literally said that absolutely no part of the story is a mandatory inclusion in a Wheel of Time adaptation. There is no core. That is my point. We can't have an actual discussion about the Wheel of Time story if the Wheel of Time story could literally be anything involving a guy named Rand. Re: Min. So basically you admit that Min is completely different but it's okay because it's interesting. I mean, even her powers seem to work differently in the show. Even if the showrunners have a plan, it's clear that they can't consistently execute on that. Rafe has admitted that he had a plan for Ingtar and that it didn't come together. I assume that something was intended for Turak. The producers claimed that season 2E8 would contain one of the biggest battles ever on screen. Only the inherent ambiguity in the phrase "one of" keeps that from being a bold-faced lie although it is still hilarious. These people are so far out of their depth that it would be comical if I didn't care about the result. Who watched S2E8 and thought that was one of the biggest battles ever on screen? Who watched S1E8 and didn't realize that reviving Nynaeve raised problems? It would have been a small thing to fix by simply showing that Nynaeve wasn't dead yet when Egwene healed her. But they simply lacked the vision, judgment, and skill of execution to fix it.

Another criticism of the show (or perhaps a different way of expressing essentially the same criticism) is that it feels like WoT fan fiction. Fan fiction, generally speaking, is set in nominally the same universe and lore and uses most of the same characters who are intended to 'feel' the same. The thing that sets fan fiction apart from the original story is the plot points and events that make up the story. When you say you are looking for characters, relationships, and a distinctive WoT world, (but not necessarily any specific scenes or events) that seems to be an acknowledgement that you are okay with the show being fan fiction. Of course, I feel like a lot of the characters in the show are very different from the characters of the books, but that is somewhat subjective. By asking for concrete events and plots points that you feel are core to the story, I am looking for an objective standard by which we can judge if they have fundamentally changed the story. Yes, in a way that is a "gotcha" question and I wasn't really trying to hide that. I can provide my own list of events that I think are critical (some of them are already cut). But until there is agreement as to what it means for the story to be Wheel of Time, we'll just be talking past each other. Your refusal to answer the question is itself an answer. You're essentially saying that you'd be happy to watch WoT fan fiction. Also: Min? You really think that Min is not fundamentally changed as a character? You think book Min would make a deal with Ishamael?

I've said before, I feel like it's a fine show if you don't think about it too much. It's kind of like "Xena" or "The Expendables." It exists in the moment of action and emotion and shouldn't be taken seriously or literally. And to be clear, I like "Xena" and "The Expendables." They just aren't anything like the WoT books.

Agreed. It's a weird combination of sloth and hubris, where they assume they can do it better without bothering to understand it in the first place.

So they use the Bowl of the Winds to trap Moridin and re-bind the dark one? How does that work?

So how do you credibly judge that it's still Wheel of Time if basically anything could change and you wouldn't say that it was no longer Wheel of Time?

That's fair. The question I would follow up with is: What are the things that make WoT WoT? Going forward, what are some things that have to happen for it to remain an adaptation of Wheel of Time? Where is the line? What if Dumai's Wells doesn't happen? What if Callandor doesn't exist? What if the Finns don't exist? What about Slayer or the Gholam? What if the CHoden Kai don't exist? Just in general, can you articulate a clear list of events that are core to the story?