------ Ahahahhahahahha! No. Thread is Locked. "W" Discussion is done, you've all had an opportunity to vent it out, and we lost a member because of it. Starting Today, any posts that start talking about "W" will be removed/edited. Don't like it, take it up with the other admins.". ......... There are a fair few more examples, I mean many people weren't happy with how the show was going, people were going to be critical...Things like that happen, they WERE NOT well received. Personally I just thought the show wasn't very good. weird. i didn't knew that, and i've seen people use the word woke since then. maybe it was an instance of the word used as an insult that triggered and excessive reaction that was later tempered. I've certainly seen people express very strong criticism of the show, and nothing bad happened to them - except perhaps this forum seem to appear to have a majority of people who liked the show, so people arguing against would get less votes.

this is a really bad thing to say. this forum doesn't ban people on opinions, and there are posters on both sides of the argument. every discussion I've seen has been civil and respectful. nobody is banned for expressing opinions respectfully. what kind of people are chased off by civil discussion? I guess those that would like a discussion to be something like " - the tv show is turd, ruined by rafe being a woke flagbearer! - yes, rafe better not show his face around here! - we should burn his house! - we should hurt his family! " Yes, I can see how such people would be put off by a civil discussion. And frankly, such people should reexhamine their life and try to find some purpose - if they need their safe space to hate something as harmless as a tv show without contradictory, there's something deeply wrong with them. people tend to congregate with those of similar opinions, and to an extent it's unavoidable and positive. But when people can't stand having someone challenge - respectfully and with arguments, no less! - their opinion on a tv show, it goes too far. it means those people can't think and can't form reasoned opinions. Even in the best case, some of those people are simply there to vent some rage at the world in general. some people go to the gym and punch a mattress to unwind after work, some people go on the internet and rage at random stuff. even in that best case, i'd argue those people's opinion do not count, as they are merely venting - just like the guy in the gym punching a punching ball is doing it because it makes him feel good, not because he really wants to punch someone. Hopefully.

is that 1/8th also exaggerated for comedic effects? stepin has 10 minutes of screen time, 15 at most. and elyas is an interesting story only if you get the full wolfbrother picture. which clearly they wanted to wait to introduce. and i will say that i know a single non-reader who watched the show and commented on stepin, and was very positive about it.

the donning kruger studio showed both effects: ignorant people overestimaging their skill, and capable ones underestimating it. I assumed the effect included both, but apparently only the first part is generally referenced. weird.

you keep repeating that, but i do believe you suffer from donning kruger effect here. you already know the lore, you already know which bits of exposition are important and which are fluff, and you already know how each bit fits into each other bit. you also know very well the main plot, so you are not distracted by trying to follow up what happens to rand & others while also getting blasted by seemingly random pieces of unrelated exposition. it reminds me of my first teaching experiences, where I kept insisting that the stuff I was teaching was easy and I was summing up a whole topic in twenty minutes. sure, it's easy for me because I studied chemistry for years and sure, it can be summed up in twenty minutes if you understand each and every point and their logical relatonships at the first try. eventually, I had to accept that if everyone was insisting chemistry was hard, it probably really was; that, and having worked in academia for years I was living in a social bubble of smart people and I was overestimating the average kid - who is the target of my lessons, they must be understandable by him, not just by the smart people I hang out with. if chemistry becomes easy after reaching a certain level of proficiency, well, that's what being proficient means. If I give a simple explanations, and the students insist that it's hard (the good students who put actual effort and have some brain, not the bad students who pay attention exactly once, the day before the test, and then get surprised when they don't pass), I learned to accept that the students are right, and try a better approach. because, due to donning kruger effect, I am not a reliable judge of whether some bit of chemistry is hard, or not. I suggest you do the same. If most everyone here insists that on their first reading they didn't get the lore, maybe it's because getting it on the first read is actually hard, and not because this forum is populated by liars and dummies. If you find it super easy, maybe it's because you already know it, and not because it's actually easy.

it's not much a matter of "possible", but of "economically convenient". bringing wot to screen requires a lot of money. to do it properly, it also requires advanced planning - you have to make an outline for all the season and stick to it, you need to pay the actors in advance to avoid having to change the plot because an actor becomes unavailable, you need to film the seasons back to back to be able to make one season per year, because at the pace they were using the viewers had mostly forgotten that the show even exhisted, after two years since the previous season. and this even reduces some costs - it's cheaper to gather all the actors and workers and film two seasons in a row than having to restart all over every time - but it involves considerable risk. it means pulling out 500 millions or more without any certainty that you will have a return on investment, and without having any way of recouping any of those if things go wrong. and then those costs have to be justified. the show must be successful enough to bring new viewers, enough to pay its cost. which is a problem of its own. there are hundreds upon hundreds of tv shows on amazon prime. how many people are going to pay the membership just for one of those? quite hard to establish, but with so much stuff being produced, it's kinda hard to justify a single project bringing in so many new viewers. GOT is often used as a benchmark, but GOT had it easy; at its time, there were no large fantasy projects, so people interested in those only had one choice. at the moment, how many fantasy shows are there? I don't know because i don't follow, but I know there are many. it's easier to attract new paying customers when you are making a big fantasy show where there are none, than when you are making a big fantasy show in addition to a dozen others. so, making a wot adaptation is possible; in fact, they were doing it. But making a wot adaptation that is economically convenient? making a good wot adaptation with the restrictions placed by limited fundings, by a studio that is hedging its bets because it wants to be able to pull the plug on the project with minimal losses if things ever start going downhill? Finding a studio that is willing to bet the money on the production, knowing that most likely it won't be successful and will go at a loss? Good luck with that. And frankly, if someone pulled that kind of money and effort, I'd rather they adapt the mistborn trilogy or the stormlight archive - both of which probably would be a lot easier to adapt and work better on the screen, due to cinematic action sequences.

the warder that was going to die in the end was a good story, and it served a purpose to build up tension for when lan will be without bond. people who didn't read the books liked that arc. tossing egwene in the river, on the other hand, was eminently pointless and should have been cut even if there was nothing else to put in its place.

the foretelling, by itself, wouldn't work. not when the people have no idea who this dragon is supposed to be. but i would have included it. after prolonged discussion, i was convinced that a version of the book prologue could be used - provided that ishamael really cuts down on the flowery speech and lews terin cuts down on the madness answers. make it clear. you want to convey that there was the dark one, and the dragon sort of defeated the dark one, but caused the taint on saidin and went mad. oh, and some people were woring for the dark one. lay it out as straight as possible. second scene, the foretelling. show gitara moroso with the foretelling. use conversation with moiraine and siuan to better hammer the whole reborn thing. this couple scenes, in less than 10 minutes, should set up the foundation, and do it clearly. now you can either make a montage sequence of moiraine traveling around the world looking for the dragon, or you can cut to the two rivers directly. but i'm imagining the montage sequence, and i'm liking it a lot. moiraine arrives in a village. talks with people, just a couple sentences shown. says to lan "he's born two weeks too late". strikes the name. jumps on the horse. repeat a couple times, then show increasingly shorter jumps of moiraine arriving in new villages and striking names. Until in the final cut, she arrives at emond field.

Of course you don't get a scene-by-scene conversion. You know that. This feels like a bad faith argument. Moving the goalpost, too You complained about the lack of t'a'r visions, i pointed out there were several, so now you shift on a specific one. You may as well complain that there wasn't the scene of mat and rand doing gleemen tricks for food for the tenth time.

That's simply not true. The first seaseon has at least a scene with "ba'alzamon" for rand and one for perrin, and i don't distinctly remember one for mat but i think he also had one Three sequences, with the premium on screen time, is a pretty good investment As for shadar logoth, it got more or less the same time that it got in the books, in proportion.

That's simply not true. The first seaseon has at least a scene with "ba'alzamon" for rand and one for perrin, and i don't distinctly remember one for mat but i think he also had one Three sequences, with the premium on screen time, is a pretty good investment As for shadar logoth, it got more or less the same time that it got in the books

what rafe wanted, what the executives wanted, what was pitched, or the tv beginning working even less, all this has absolutely zero bearing on whether the book prologue would have been a good start, or not. I argue that the book prologue, as it is, is needlessly confusing to first time readers, to the point that even many who became long standing fans of the books didn't like it. I argue that, for a tv adaptation, a different scene, or at least a version of the book prologue heavily edited for clarity, would have been better. whether the prologue was changed in the tv show because rafe put a lot of thought on where to start introducing this massively expansive world, or because rafe is secretly a far right extremist with a convoluted plan of ruining the wheel of time with a woke retelling to cause people to rage against it, or because the executives saw that only men were involved in the first scene, and the only woman was a corpse, and deemed it would have been discriminatory, that's completely irrelevant for the purpose of the argument.

it would be awesome if it worked like you say. And as I said, maybe you are just a more perceptive reader than I was when I picked up the first book the first time. You probably were, at the time I was in my late teens reading in a foreign language on which I wasn't fully proficient. The fact remains that I, within the first 50 pages, hadn't understood much of what you say. What hooked the book for me was winternight and what followed. Yes, thinking in retrospect, the pieces of the lore were there. The problem is, just like with the prologue, they were drowned in so much irrelevant fluff, I didn't pick them. You could understand all that stuff in the first 50 pages, in the same way that you can figure out who is the murdered in a detective book is within the first 50 pages if you follow the right clues. If it was only me having this problem, you could just dismiss it as me having no experience with big fantasy sagas at the time. But a lot of people are saying they had a problem with the prologue. Face it, the execution was botched. RJ had an awesome idea for a setup, but he put so much fluff around it, it left many readers utterly confused and unable to pick up the actually important stuff.

maybe you are a super-perceptive reader, or maybe you just know what to look for. yes, of course, now that we know what the prologue is about, it's easy to find the references. just like it's easy to spot the clues once you already know the solution to a mistery. what i remember of my first experience reading the prologue is an endless sequence of name-dropping. Lews Therin. Elan Morin. Ishamael. Ilyena. Shai'tan. Lord of the morning. Great Lord of the dark. Betrayer of hope. Hundred companions. Kinslayer. Some of those are probably the same person, but for my first reading it was too much information to keep track properly. The Voice? Singing? Those are capitalized, they clearly means something special. First among Servants? nine rods of dominion? Paaran Disen? Ring of Tamyrlin? In retrospect, I don't need to know what any of this means. However, I had no way to determine which of those was important, and which wasn't. Traveling? Wheel of Time? Creator? True Source? One Power? Sure, now I know that stuff is important, but the first time I read the book, the One Power seemed no more, no less important than Paaran Disen. Besides, we are in the viewpoint of someone clearly unhinged. Are we even supposed to trust what this guy is experiencing, or are we supposed to watch for clues of unreliable narrator? All in all, it was too much for me. I just decided to completely ignore the prologue for the time being. Now that I write the issues like this, I think the scene could work, provided that Ishy cuts down with the flowery speech and everyone sticks to one single name. Yes, I know you need to convey that those characters have many names and appellations, but it could be better to give it some time. And it could actually work better on television than on book, because television would remove the problem with the unreliable narrator the book was accidentally giving, and it would force Ishy to cut down with the fluff and stick to what's important.

Is it actually explained? For real, not "there is a piece of fine print and you can ask in internet forums what it meant"? I honestly don't remember because the first two books are my least favorite and i have been skipping them in my latest rereads. Anyway, most of that is explained later. The eye was made during the breaking according to prophecy, and we see that in rhuidean. We also see the green man in rhuidean. My impression is that it was a (very successful) author saving throw to justify a weak ending. It works in the books, after you read all of them. It left me utterly confused when i read it first. Oh, and i don't accept "rand is channeling with ltt memories"; he didn't got those until later books. Now, it could have been done more faithfully in the tv show. Explain that the eye was made during the breaking because it was foretold it was needed. Takes one minute of exposition. Cut the green man; his one contribution was sacrificing to kill a foresaken, so just remove the green man and one foresaken and the scene plays out the same. Explain that you have 4 ta'veren, and they warp chances, so you are counting on them to stumble on the eye. Again, takes one minute. Then it can play more or less like in the books. Make rand a bit less cheesy; he can overpower a foresaken with raw strenght with a pool of pure saidin to tap, but traveling and entering t'a'r is a bit too much, plus viewers wouldn't understand it. Anyway, you can use ishi as the foresaken at the eye, so no need for rand to access t'a'r. That's how i would have tried it