[Game Over] Cliche Mafia - The Death of Meta - Sooh Wins!

[Darthe]

Lol Yates bfg may be off but remains townie

[Shadar Alantin]

I am not sure how i am going to vote yet but i am thinking that Hallia might be mafia, but i will wait till the morning to vote for sure.

Also i have class most of the day tomorrow, till 5:30 my time, with the afternoon being completely filled, so what ever my vote is in the morning i will probally stay that way until the EoD.

so Night all

[Turin Turambar]

Yates, You are saying you have me as mafia again? 

 

 

BFG - aside from the crap case you put together full of misreps, why do you think I'm suddenly interested in you? Specifically as a potential Turin scum buddy?

Well I'm not mafia so you are at the very least wrong there.

 

A few notes I had from your reply to BFG:

Your #4 where you state that you have gotten town reads from people that are dead. You realize your using this as a means to try to paint yourself town is a bad look right? The people that read you town were town as well and therefore had no knowledge of your true alignment. (this line is also a common mafia tool to make townies think of them as town. A false clear from a dead townie)

 

Your #5: I don't care what method you and Verb use to clear each other. The only one that is fool proof would be to peek at PMs and that would be illegal. (I am not accusing you of that BTW) No one is beyond being fooled. Further you may have asked the MOD about the possibilty of you and verb having the same cliche but you did it very late. I hinted to you myself at least twice that is WA IN FACT QUITE POSSIBLE well before you were bothered to ask. The fact that you were not only not looking to find out if it was possible but also using that fact to try to push at Verb seems a bit much. Like you didn't want to be told that it was possible so you wouldn't have to drop that schtick. 

 

Finally you have a PR claim out there. Tracker is NOT exclusively town. In fact I would guess it unlikely to be town in what has been described in the OP as an "old school" BASIC game. That phrasing would lead me to expect COP, DOC , possibly VIG (for which there is a second kill to lend evidence) and then mafia roles. Tracker would be a useful role for mafia in this situation as it is the perfect way to TOWN PR hunt. Plus you could get some potential town cred from some people. That again you are using it (if real, Which I don't really believe) to paint your self as the most Town of Townies sits wrong with me. 

 

Since no one wants to vote Darthe then I will go in another direction. I find you suspicious enough. 

 

[v] Yates. [/v]

[Turin Turambar]

Vote Count

 

 

Dice – 1 (Tina)

Leyrann - 1 (Pralaya)

Tress - 1 (Hallia)

Cass - 9 (RTE, Shadar, Turin, Panchi, Leyrann, Darthe, Sooh, BFG, Verbal )

Panchi - 4 (Dice, Yates, Cass, Tress)

 

 

Not voting - 0

 

That's a Lynch

I put some of the names where they belonged but this is the final VC lynching Cass. There are just as many people I am suspect of off the train as there are on the train. (Tina, Hallia, Yates OFF with RTE, Darthe, and Shady ON)  D1 EoD was  at least a bit unusual in that it was difficult to get any lynch and some people that were voting Panchi fully expected her to be the lynch that day but they had to leave prior to DL. I would not put it past a clever mafia team to get two townie wagons up to viable range and then leave them for the townies to consolidate one way or the other. Town wants to ensure a controlled lynch for the simple reason that a unfortunate random can hurt town more than mafia. Especially if the mafia is primarily goons (like in a basic game) 

[Darthe]

I'm actually cool with you pursuing a totally different angle from me but I don't get your suspicion of me. Yates either tbh.

[Songstress]

Have been feeling wretched all weekend and I was hoping to have my head stop swimming long enough to post something coherent but it looks unlikely tonight.

 

BFG looks quite townie to me.

 

 

Yates I don't know what to make of, but then I never do at that unless I'm lucky enough to have a shiny object.  Turin's suspicion of him kind of took me off guard, though, trying to paint him as a possible mafia tracker seems less than likely.  More often you'll see a mafia watcher than a tracker, and I'd expect Yates would be more likely altogether lying than claiming his actual role with the opposite alignment, to be frank.  

 

I need to re-read Hallia's posts I think, she hadn't struck me as being all that suspicious so far.  I'm too nauseated at the moment to focus on it.

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

Vote Count

 

 

Sooh - 1 (Tina)

Hallia - 5 (Darthe, Dice, Leyrann, Sooh, RTE)

Dice - 1 (Hallia)

Yates -2 (Turin, BFG )

 

Not Voting - 4 (Panchi, Tress, Shadar, Yates)

 

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to Lynch.

 

 

 

 

Day 2 Deadline Ends Monday 23 March 2015 @ 9.15pm GMT (so it doesn't hit a weekend)

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150323T2115&p0=136&msg=end+of+day+2

[BFG]

Split up Yates first response.

 

 

Yates is another logical player, I expect him to know the same generic 'book of Darthe' as me if not better. Him being well aware that there's no counter and not looking elsewhere doesn't sit will either.

LOL - You expect *me* to follow the "Book of Darthe???"

 

*Pauses to allow laughter to subside*

 

But seriously... Why *I* don't subscribe to the "Book of Darthe:"

 

No I don't expect you to follow, but I expect you to be aware of it and I'm wondering why it didn't stand out to you. I expect you to 'know' the book of Darthe so that it stands out when DARTHE apparently isn't following the Book of Darthe.

 

 

Also it actually states "If there is no counter train then the mafia is likely comfortable withthe current train."

Stuff like this? No bueno. That's a super generic statement. No counter is just as likely to mean scum can't find a suitable counter wagon without exposing themselves. OR - maybe you are the caboose on this Hally train because you don't want your scum buddy to go down?

 

Of course it's a generic statement, but I agree more with Darthe here, it 'could' mean that mafia can't find a counter wagon, it 'could' mean that mafia are all absent, it 'could' mean lots of things, but it *generally* means that it's a townie wagon and mafia are happy with it, that's not the book of Darthe, that's observation and one I think you've made in the past, although I can't think of a specific game of the top of my head so won't push it as a point.

 

 

I don't understand your logic of stating your intent to vote to L1, as a plus it shops scummy early hammers like Eldricks last game (the only thing I remember from his play)

So you do understand part of what I'm doing. I also didn't like how we couldn't swing a CW onto Panchi end of day 1. So I'm giving Hally extra motivation to get in here and clear her name SOONER rather than with an hour to go in the Day phase. That's why, if you read the rest of my post, you'll notice that I explicitly asked her to come in and Town it up.

 

I understand the part that removes the chance of mafia 'outting' themselves. Interesting that you also seem to believe that Hallia is town here, since if I understand 'part' of what you're doing you agree that Hallia could be scummily hammered early and that's unlikely to come from a teammate. Yet you're still expressing intent to vote. If you're concerned about Pancji why aren't you following it up? I know that you ask Hallia to come in and 'town' it up, but the BIG point here is that you're not looking anywhere else, except now me, lol. Yet this comes AFTER I've pointed out that you're not looking anywhere else, so?

 

 

...on the other hand you're not looking elsewhere.

It's been the weekend. I have been LA. I had guests until 20 minutes ago. Trying to nudge Hally to defend herself from a growing wagon that we have proven can not be disbanded if she is Town is about as much effort as I could put into the game at this point in time. I'm sure I'll have more time tomorrow - but it might be too late to make a huge difference.

 

And last week, when you were 'determining' Cass's alignment but making no effort to find a counter-wagon? I know you're busy in RL, but you have one of the higher post counts despite that and are saying very little that's going towards game solve.

 

 

Yates

1- made no effort to case people, look elsewhere for suspects other than leading wagon, or competing wagon

2- conversation with Cass yesterday about 'read for posterity' looks vaguely similar to 'intent to vote Hallia' and both seem lazy

3- comment about 'no lynch' last game leading to mafia victory is somewhat disingenuous since mafia have been winning the majority of games recently

4- lots of posts and not said very much

5- majority of early posts about Verbs outrageous claiming, but apparently never checked with Ithi, didn't register as a -ve until the 'oh we shared a cliché' post

+ made EoD

6-game reminding me of MLP mafia game - would value Tina's input on this.

1 - You mean except for where I tried to figure out Cass because no one else seemed to be doing it, right?

2 - It looks "vaguely similar" because it's the same thing. I'm calling for the person with the biggest wagon to get in here and defend their position. How they defend their slot is how I get my read.

3 - Matter of opinion. I'd like to think mafia anti-Town won the last two because I was anti-Town the last two. But maybe I'm just egotistical.

4 - I said enough to find Town and to earn Town reads from people that have either already flipped Town or that I think are very likely Town. So that's something. Sorry that I didn't have the ability make Cass stop crap posting after I got her out of a jam thus sealing her own fate rather than the her CW's.

5 - You don't know how Verbal and I read each other. Also, I *did* ask the mod. It's in my ISO. I'd link to it but I think you've made yourself look silly enough.

6 - What?

 

1 - how is that 'looking elsewhere for suspects'? Since when is Town Yates content with forming 'one' town read on someone who at that point was extremely likely to be lynched, and which you acknowledge by asking her read on you 'for posterity'?

2 - and if you determine that Hallia is likely town, you have no where else to look and no possibility of moving elsewhere

3 - you can be very good at any role in mafia, bit mafia have been winning the majority of games for the last year, you haven't been mafia in all of them (thankfully)

4 - none of which alters the fact that you've said little. Cass flipped town and thought you were mafia, Pral offered no opinion and Verb gave a town read?

4b - What does Cass have to do with this, in this context?

5 - I don't 'care' how you and Verb read each other. If Verb had explained it on thread before he died then it would have helped, as it is it's information I can't use. You asked after Turin(?) pointed it out as odd that you hadn't. I agree with him that it's odd, my understanding from mods comments after the game is that you ask a 'lot' of questions, I'll accept I might be wrong. But if you prefer I'll restate it to:

- didn't ask the obvious question until after it was pointed out to him as a possibility which seems way late.

6 - IN MLP you got lynched because you were viewed, but I was questioning you before that because you seemed lazy. You were content with having 3 town reads on Day 2 and thought that was good enough. That's similar to this game in terms of attitude where you are happy following other peoples cases and not doing stuff yourself. Tina modded that game, so I'd value her input. 

 

 

Yates isn't being nearly as proactive as I would expect as town, has said a lot but not much that means anything, nor is he apparently asking questions I'd expect him to be asking

You just described my scum game. So how are my current actions reminding you of MLP, again? Yeah, I'd be interested in Tina's input on this as well.

 

I have a much better question for you, BFG; Given that a Townie was mislynched Day 1, do you think there are more scum ON or OFF the mislynch wagon? This is important given your current vote and fundamental lack of understanding of how I'm approaching this game. And also, believe me or not, I have a Town PR claim out there along with an action claim. Turin is absolutely more than welcome to challenge my result at his own discretion. So you are not only voting for someone OFF the Town wagon but also an un-cced PR with an unchallenged result. The trifecta of poor voting choices. Bully for you.

 

"Book of Darthe...."

SMFH

For SHAME!

 

 

Awesome, apparently you agree this is your mafia game.

 

Described above, but basically lazy play (and no I'm not saying this is 'always' your mafia game)

 

'Generally' I'd say there were more mafia on the train. However the lynch was basically made by people who were around, and during Day 1 I'm inclined to give people around at the EoD1 a townie point, since chances are high that a no info mod-lynch would aid mafia more, so I need to reread to check when people were around and check where and why their votes were placed. If you mean today, then that implies that you think Hallia is town, yet still apparently intend to vote her.

 

 

 

I really don't believe your claim, and no this isn't a counter claim, I just don't believe it I'm not sure there's anything in your claim, when you claimed, what you claimed or how you claimed that means I should or ever would.

 

 

Should clarify; earlier Yates looking better than Darthe was (hopefully obviously) just about the 'logic' of the train analysis and not overall.

This seems like an odd thing to "correct" for no apparent reason. Self-conscious, much?

 

Not really

 

 

BFG - aside from the crap case you put together full of misreps, why do you think I'm suddenly interested in you? Specifically as a potential Turin scum buddy?

Interesting, can you show me a misrep (other than stating that you didn't ask Ithi the obvious question, when I should have stated that you didn't ask Ithi the obvious question until 'after' it was pointed out to you)? ironic point is ironic

 

Because I'm casing you, because you think Hallia 'could' be town and Turin and I are 'off' the only wagon? No idea, you haven't mentioned Turin as any sort of read, but it's good to know you think he's scummy, why are you planning on voting Hallia again and NOT casing Turin (or me) in any way?

 

Tell you what I'll ask the really big question, Why should I be reading you as town?

 

On the plus side I now 'know' that Yates apparently thinks Hallia could be Town or could be mafia, and that he thinks Panchi, Turin and myself could be mafia yet is doing nothing about it, even when people were expressing interest in a Panchi wagon earlier.

 

Got to run, back later.

[BFG]

I am not sure how i am going to vote yet but i am thinking that Hallia might be mafia, but i will wait till the morning to vote for sure.

Also i have class most of the day tomorrow, till 5:30 my time, with the afternoon being completely filled, so what ever my vote is in the morning i will probally stay that way until the EoD.

so Night all

Why do you think Hallia could be mafia? What are your opinions on everyone else?

[BFG]

Have been feeling wretched all weekend and I was hoping to have my head stop swimming long enough to post something coherent but it looks unlikely tonight.

 

BFG looks quite townie to me.

 

 

Yates I don't know what to make of, but then I never do at that unless I'm lucky enough to have a shiny object.  Turin's suspicion of him kind of took me off guard, though, trying to paint him as a possible mafia tracker seems less than likely.  More often you'll see a mafia watcher than a tracker, and I'd expect Yates would be more likely altogether lying than claiming his actual role with the opposite alignment, to be frank.  

 

I need to re-read Hallia's posts I think, she hadn't struck me as being all that suspicious so far.  I'm too nauseated at the moment to focus on it.

Feel better!

 

Agree with the point about a mafia watcher being more likely than a mafia tracker.

[Niniel]

 

 

Good posts by BFG! I´m afraid that I can´t help you with Yates meta, even though I modded that game. I have a terrible memory and I only "know" a few player´s meta. From what I remember, Yates is more willing to sit back as mafia, but that might be wrong. 

 

Turin - I might follow your vote but I agree with BFG, Yates claiming is more likely to be a fake claim. I don´t think you could base a fake claim on him perhaps being a mafia tracker. 

[Leyrann]

You're in people I don't quite know what to make of but that I don't have any real reason to suspect.

 

If Hally was an IC I'd go Ley as I said.

 

I don't see an issue with Yates request though it didn't look like much of a request to me.

 

Ok. You going to explain yet why, or are you just gonna randomly vote me and hope people hop on? Because that's currently the only way you're going to get me lynched, seeing as people have barely even quoted my posts to comment about things they don't like. Only RTE did, and he didn't get further than "you're playing weird" when I was playing in my cliché.

 

Hally hasn't tried to push people off of her train so it logically goes to assume that even if she is scum the mafia are content with waiting it out BFG. That nullifies the counterclaim argument (which is only a good reason for lynching panchi today). The people who haven't joined are people I don't trust and people that could be mafia with Hally. If their tactic is to train stall here then they wouldn't want to provide momentum yet also woildnt want to link themselves to a teammate by providing a counter wagon. That fits well with the way this wagon has been responded to.

 

The only issue is that Ley fits just as well withthe group and when I mentioned him several of my suspects jumped on my post witg "why Ley" type responses. Kinda sketchy.

 

My reason for trusting you as well as I do is that you've been asking Good questions where most haven't dig into this game. Frankly with all of the on thread nonsense this match is bound to be somewhat of a crapshoot

 

As I mentioned, you keep putting me as your second target, yet you haven't used ANYTHING, just NOTHING, to back that up. That's why peope are asking you "why Ley?".

 

By the way, I'd like to mention that I'm actually one of the people on Hallia's train, even though you're saying you trust the people on the train and don't trust the people off the train (in that way that you first had an opinion and they then went onto the train or not). Not liking your play today. Except if you're coming with a really good case on me, it's just weird, and the only thing I can think of (apart from maybe a weird cliché of "going for someone random without providing reasoning") is you being mafia and wanting me gone for some reason. I don't know...

 

Tina

+ not getting the feel that she's forcing her reads this game

- missed EDO

 

I don't really agree here. It took a huge amount of prodding for her to make a list of reads, and when she did, she did not provide ANY reasoning. Only "town" "null" and "scum" lists.

[BFG]

On Lunch break.

 

darthe, what has Yates done to convince you he's town this game?

[BFG]

Turin, page 44(ish) darthe asks you why you're voting him. You say because he's capable of bussing, and then say that with the cop dead bussing a GF means nothing as effectively equal to goon.

 

Why bring this second bit up?

 

You were voting Darthe long before he cased Hallia and it reads like speculation that Hallua is a GF which is bizarre at best and outright scummy if she flips GF.

[BFG]

@Ley it's not a strong read, but her last couple of games when mafia had reads and explanations of everyone on the game, I like that she isn't forcing her reads to allign with expectations and instead looking at the people she has something to talk about. It's enough for now when I think there are obvious suspects to focus on.

 

Back later

[Yates]

Lol Yates bfg may be off but remains townie

Shhh... Lemme do my thing...

[Yates]

From what I remember, Yates is more willing to sit back as mafia, but that might be wrong.

It is.

 

These are my last two non-Town games:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92822-advanced-arthurian-mafia/

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92740-psycho-a-sketchy-sk-event-is-over/

 

I'm active and help drive the lynches I want.

 

These are my last Two Town games:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92195-advanced-the-scouring-of-the-shire-game-over/

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91898-basicstandard-a-wind-in-the-door-mafia-game-over-town-wins/

 

I'm active but take the time to question the validity of lead wagons while encouraging the lead wagon candidate to get in and defend him/herself.

[Yates]

Long story short, BFG, if you aren't lynching from this pool?

Cass - 9 (RTE, Shadar, Turin, Panchi, Leyrann, Darthe, Sooh, BFG, Verbal )

You're doing it wrong. Especially if you check your role PM and find something that says something about your alignment being Town.

[Hallia]

I was trying to play up my cliches to fly under the radar, but as I appear to have been doing it almost too well, I will say:

 

I'm our doc, please don't lynch.

[Hallia]

More frome as soon as I get to work

[Leyrann]

@Ley it's not a strong read, but her last couple of games when mafia had reads and explanations of everyone on the game, I like that she isn't forcing her reads to allign with expectations and instead looking at the people she has something to talk about. It's enough for now when I think there are obvious suspects to focus on.

 

Back later

 

That's good enough for me.

 

Long story short, BFG, if you aren't lynching from this pool?

Cass - 9 (RTE, Shadar, Turin, Panchi, Leyrann, Darthe, Sooh, BFG, Verbal )

You're doing it wrong. Especially if you check your role PM and find something that says something about your alignment being Town.

 

 

Okay, are you seriously assuming that all mafia were on this lynch? I think that might actually be too much overgeneralizing to come from a mafia.

 

Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and

 

[unvote]

[v] Tina [/v]

 

Because while I do think BFG is making a good point, Tina IS my first choice after Hallia, and if it isn't because she's scummy it's because she's not really contributing anything.

 

Also, before people hop on me now (I've seen recent days that there are several who want that), may I ask you to remember that no one has cased me despite me asking for it several times? Imo lynching me now (I'm going to be gone for the next 4-5 hours, which is about 2 hours before deadline) would just be bad manners apart from being a mislynch. I won't have a serious chance to reply to any accusations while there has been ENOUGH time to mention them. Think I'm scum and you want to lynch me? Sure, go ahead and give it a try, but do it D3 so I have a chance to reply to your case. Am I your only scum read? You might do more for town by self-voting.

[Darthe]

I was trying to play up my cliches to fly under the radar, but as I appear to have been doing it almost too well, I will say:

 

I'm our doc, please don't lynch.

So...

 

 

and I was like

 

 *sigh*

 

But then I realized

 

and that seems to solve a lot of the problems I have with you being doc.  

[Darthe]

 

@Ley it's not a strong read, but her last couple of games when mafia had reads and explanations of everyone on the game, I like that she isn't forcing her reads to allign with expectations and instead looking at the people she has something to talk about. It's enough for now when I think there are obvious suspects to focus on.

 

Back later

 

That's good enough for me.

 

Long story short, BFG, if you aren't lynching from this pool?

Cass - 9 (RTE, Shadar, Turin, Panchi, Leyrann, Darthe, Sooh, BFG, Verbal )

You're doing it wrong. Especially if you check your role PM and find something that says something about your alignment being Town.

 

 

Okay, are you seriously assuming that all mafia were on this lynch? I think that might actually be too much overgeneralizing to come from a mafia.

 

 

Hey Ley, here's a good example of something that might make me look at you askance.  Nobody said anything about where all the mafia were but lynching from yesterdays train is a smart move 9/10 of the time.  We have a basis for incrimination there and it narrows how much people focus on.  

[Darthe]

Also, regardless of if I believe her or not unvoting Hally and voting elsewhere is the smart move.  CCing is not.  If she doesn't prove herself as doc then that will be her fault later.

 

[v] Ley [/v]

[Yates]

Okay, are you seriously assuming that all mafia were on this lynch?

LOL - no. But it is as close to a guarantee as you can get that there is at least one mafia on a Day 1 mislynch. Typically there's more than 1 but at least 1. And since Verb was NKed and flipped Town, this is a smaller pool to pick your lynch target from.