Eye of the World- A thought

[Blackbyrd]

Haven't seen it- so how about this:

 

Eye of the world- Matrim Cauthon's eye

 

Please discuss

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 4/25/2024 at 6:57 PM, Blackbyrd said:

Haven't seen it- so how about this:

 

Eye of the world- Matrim Cauthon's eye

 

Please discuss

Can you elaborate a bit?

[Blackbyrd]

It was just funny that it had never occurred to me before, and a cursory search showed nothing. It's obvious RJ meant something by  this parallel. What two things are discovered under the EotW? The Horn- which Mat blows and the banner, and who leads the Dragon's army at Tarmon Gaidon? Mat. Though it was Perrin who raised the banner in TGH. What leads Aginor and Balthamel to the Eye? Mat- 'An old thing, an ancient thing'

 

Honestly- I'm still puzzled by the connection and I can generally figure out some of the more esoteric things RJ intended- I was way ahead of the curve on knowing Zen Rand can't be shielded or  likely even turned through channeling. This one though... I think it might be buried in that 'mystery of Mat' pool which we'll never actually figure out without the Epilogue trilogy.

 

After a few days of thinking the relevant reference I figure is that Sanderson himself discovered something in the notes about this that he couldn't really get at- or that he didn't want to take on, or that he himself wondered about, but found nothing. What happens to the Dragon banner? In aMoL Mat -Mat again here- drops it while riding to Shayol Ghul with Olver. This kind of makes me think that perhaps this entire Mat's Eye/EotW was a thing at some point in RJ's ideas that he dropped- like I think he dropped a few ideas after the 1st trilogy.

 

However, it's still kind of intriguing and could have some some intriguing speculation. Since the wheel is eternal- do the Finn's somehow ALWAYS have possession of Mat's eye and was that somehow used to help create the EotW? I mean- it's a pretty esoteric point. Yet there's no way it began as entirely coincidental point.

 

So if anyone else has any ideas or thoughts the ways they could perhaps -even tenuously- have connection please throw it out there

 

Sidenote: Another interesting discussion I haven't really is seen is the symbology of Mat losing an eye vs Rand losing his hand

[Sabio]

in Rj's notes there were going to be more than one eye of the world and each one would have a seal there.  The original job of the Aiel "sight blinders" was to find these eye of the worlds.

[Samt]

I don't think there is intended to be a connection.  The old ancient thing that leads Aginor and Balthamel to the Eye is Mashadar, not Mat himself.  Other than that, what is the actual connection between the Eye of the World and Mat's eye?  Just that they are both eyes and that there are some artifacts important to Mat that happen to be at the Eye of the World.  

 

I don't think there is any indication that the Finns had any role in creating the Eye of the World.    The Dragon Banner gets dropped both figuratively and literally.  But I don't really see much indication that it had much tie to the Eye of the World or Mat in particular.  

 

As was said, the Eye(s) of the World were supposed to play a bigger part in the original story, but I don't think that has a particular connection to Mat or his eye.  

 

Mat is definitely connected to Odin from Norse mythology at least by symbolism.  One eyed man in a top hat with a spear associated with Ravens and having sacrificed to gain knowledge.  

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

10 hours ago, Samt said:

I don't think there is intended to be a connection.  The old ancient thing that leads Aginor and Balthamel to the Eye is Mashadar

I think the reference is to Shomesta the Green Man - the Nym may even have been a creation of Aginor before his conversion to the shadow.

11 hours ago, Samt said:

Mat is definitely connected to Odin from Norse mythology at least by symbolism.  One eyed man in a top hat with a spear associated with Ravens and having sacrificed to gain knowledge.

From the point of view of circular events it would be more accurate to say that (in Jordan's world) the mythical Odin was a remembrance of an earlier figure with similar characteristics to Mat in this cycle.

[Samt]

2 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

I think the reference is to Shomesta the Green Man - the Nym may even have been a creation of Aginor before his conversion to the shadow.

From the point of view of circular events it would be more accurate to say that (in Jordan's world) the mythical Odin was a remembrance of an earlier figure with similar characteristics to Mat in this cycle.

I don't think they were able to track Someshta.  Aginor states that they were looking for the eye of the world and tracked Rand and friends to find it. They didn't come to the eye of the world to find Rand and frineds.  But Someshta was always at the eye of the world. Why would they wait for Rand and friends to get there if they could have tracked Someshta there at any time?

 

In regards to Odin, I was speaking from a literary symbolism perspective rather than the in universe explanation.  In universe, it might also be that we are living in an age that remembers Mat as the legend of Odin.

[Andra]

On 5/2/2024 at 12:12 AM, Samt said:

Why would they wait for Rand and friends to get there if they could have tracked Someshta there at any time?

Because they weren't "out" yet.

Except for Ishamael, all the Forsaken were still trapped in the Bore until the Seals started failing - extremely recently in the story.  As far as why they couldn't have just tracked Someshta?  It's because (by design) he wasn't actually in the world unless and until someone's need called him.

 

This was the first time since any of the Forsaken got out that the Green Man was touching the world in a way that made him detectable to them.

 

Remember that Mashadar was created more than a thousand years AFTER the Forsaken were trapped.  It would have been a new thing to them, not something ancient.  Only the things at the Eye would have been ancient to them.