That is an interesting question, lol. I have a difficult time seeing those from the Two Rivers taking part in a US-style Halloween celebration. Far too immodest. And in Scotland where it all began, they would probably think the guisers were worshiping the Dark One 🙂 Well, maybe Mat would be up for it, perhaps.

This is an interesting discussion. Though as I see it, it really has to rely on speculation - which of course is fine, but I don't think there are many truths that you can wheedle out of the text. Jordan, imho, clearly did not discuss this at all explicitly, and I don't think the case of Aran'gar really gives much information at all. Also the in-world layer of persistent souls adds in a confounding factor that will make real world analogies difficult. Aran'gar I think tells us little as she is clearly not normal. Her "soul" is somehow transferred to a new body with her entire formed personality and memories. This is not a normal rebirth. Consider the possibility that channeling saidar or saidin is linked to sex, not gender. That it is a consequence of your underlying genetics (which would raise interesting possibilities for certain intersex conditions). Or the alternative that it is a consequence of puberty - so Aran'gar has a mind that has gone through male puberty and a body that has gone through female. That alone makes her a poor analogy for a transgender person in real life. So which power you have access to depends on your hormones at puberty. Or it could decided my neurological features that we would more likely consider as part of gender, rather physical sex. Or possibly even a combination of all three. Aran'gar also has the position that she knows she is male - and has all the memories and experiences to back it up. She also knows that she is in a 100% female body - and why this is. Perhaps dysphoria is less when you know these things with concrete certainty and it was done by the literal source of all evil in the universe, and you are perfectly able to complain as much as you want, with all the consequences that that would bring. But as far as I can see, there is no evidence to confirm or deny any of these permutations, so all the examples that AceOfQueens suggests are as valid as any other. To me a complicated and nuanced explanation that is messy and unclear is far more satisfying than something like instead of we are born male or female and that is it, we have male or female souls and that is it. The variation on bimodal spectrums seems so much more real to me, rather than just a absolute binary at a different, and let's face it, imaginary level. It could even be something being able to produce viable sex gametes - some people simply could not access either saidar or saidin (but could access the True Power?) and some could access both - though perhaps that would be a fatal condition. What at least I mean is that even with an apparent binary such as sperm or eggs, it doesn't mean that it is that simple underneath, and so it could be for the One Power as well. The only thing I struggle with is to see One Power gendered in itself. Why would someone in a male body that could access saidar for whatever reason, feel any kind of dysphoria over it? The whole men are from Mars and women from Venus thing about embracing and seizing the Power, doesn't seem to really be a strictly gendered thing. Some men would be more comfortable embracing and vice versa for women. Though of course, seeing as in-world they are literally the gendered power sources that powers all of creation, then maybe such dysphoria would exist even if I cannot imagine it.

Welcome to Dragonmount, Ace 🙂 It is awesome to have you here. It is ways fun to hear a fresh perspective on the story, looking forward to hear yours. I hope you have an awesome time here.

And Mandarb? But yes, Jordan tried to fit in as many real-world references as possible. Must admit I had never thought of the forkroot being specifically mandrake. But not sure what you mean about "commanding position". The references seem to be incidental and non-related. They are all meant to be reflections and twisted remembrances of the Wheel of Time - like all the Arthurian references aren't meant to illuminate those stories, but this one. And there are a lot of them, lol, sword in the stone, the Fisher King, all the names, Excaliber, etc. But I digress, none of that has anything to do with mandrake.

And what would the reader teach the tribe about the book? That it is just a story? Is it meant to be a foundational myth such as the Iliad and Odyssee? Is it mean to be a divine revelation? It is difficult to anticipate the effect it could have. Would the tribe for example adopt Aiel battle tactics as described the books which are to the best of knowledge based on very effective Zulu tactics. Would the industrial revolution come quicker as they have a pathway mapped out of what is possible with steam engines? Would they spend all their resources trying to find the One Power or even turn to the Shadow in search of power. If the story did not help them significantly, much less derail their development into dead ends, likely they would just be destroyed by competing civilisations. Having one story will not ensure survival in a brutal world. I wonder if they would emulate Jordan and write their own stories or it would be treated as something unique. Would written copies in those times be more resilient or less than the oral traditions of other tribes where bards memorised their entire history, mythology and cultural epics. Would the decentralisation of that knowledge be a good thing, or bad? Would WoT's lack of centralised, organised religion shape the future of churches in Europe? Would literacy reach modern levels meaning among other things the end of prehistory. Would they be able to differentiate between such things as books and ships and the fantastical elements? It is an interesting thought experiment as on one hand it is so insignificant to daily life and survival of culture, yet on the other it would fundamentally change so many things for that culture, depending on how they treated it. And what about the bosoms, the spanking, the smoking, the drinking, the gambling, or any of the other questionable, controversial or negative aspects of the story? Though in that respect the vast majority of fantasy stories would be much much worse.

Asmodean choosing immortality to hear music in the future.

Remember though that Sheriam joined largely for personal political reasons, not because she was a true believer. So to me it seems joining with an ulterior motive is definitely possible.

She could talk around the Oaths perhaps, paltering details and making relative statements. The fact she took the Black Oaths rather than trying to escape could be seen as proof of her intent, and then she also could lie freely to back up her story after. It is rather convenient, but it could simply be that the Black Sisters did not anticipate that anyone would swear to the Shadow without meaning it, or that if they did, that they wouldn't get fully on board, their immortal soul and chances of rebirth now wholly depending on the Dark One.

I think it was not a "sign up or die" but more Verin was poking somewhere because of her curiosity and then would have been killed when caught except she convinced them she wanted to join, which was why she was poking about. About Tomás, not sure. That always seemed a little convenient to me, too, unless Tomás became her Warder after her oaths, but then how would she know he wanted out? Or did she meet a Darkfriend with regrets and was so curious that she bonded him to study his predicament further. I guess that would be in character. Sorry for an answer so lacking in details or insight 🙂

Congratulations 🙂 Yes, the Logain story arc kind of petered out. I thought he would have a showdown with Taim and remain a rather uncommitted fully to the Dragon Reborn, an ambiguous character driven by a personal agenda and survival. But no. And did not like Egwene's end at all, even if she was kind of annoying. Your tying off of loose ends could have worked well, imho.

Happy birthday, Thom 🥳 Hope you are having a great day 🙂

The Seal over the Bore was always going to be temporary - I don't remember if this was known from the outset of the attempt by the Hundred Companions, especially as it was saidin only, or if this was one of the many things that Foretelling made explicit. Remember it is canon that the Pattern forms the Age Lace - the Bore is always made at the end of the Second Age and repaired at the end of the Third. Time is cyclical - the Bore must be made as it as already been repaired, and it must be repaired so it can be made again. What causes it? I'd guess at something hand-wavy like the evil of the Dark One seeping into Seal. Nasty stuff, liquid evil. The books don't go into a lot of "why". The Dark One is just one of their universal constants. I guess it must be necessary for the Creation of the Universe. The Creator does appear, rather bizarrely at the end of the Eye of the World, not really sure why Jordan included that as he never seemed to build on it or explain it at all. I could guess that maybe Rand was going to be much more literally the Creator's Champion at some point, but that is pure speculation. Outside of that the Creator is just the classic omnipotent creator god that moves in mysterious ways. Not to be questioned by us mere mortals. There are no beginnings or ending in the Wheel of Time. There have been an infinite number of Dragons before and will an infinite number after. If you mean, is he reborn as the Creator's Champion in Ages other than the Second and Third - no idea. I don't believe canon even slightly touches upon this. The songs of Growing (probably not actually called that, lol) that the Aiel sang in the fields with Nym and Ogiers in the Age of Legends. The closest thing that remained would be the Ogier treesong, and it was a near pain for me that not a single Tuatha'an was ever told that. An infinite amount of searching and suffering throughout endless Third Ages, and no one ever tells them. So frustrating. He accepted his fate rather than fighting it, iirc. Not sure - I'm not a great fan of the attempts at philosophy in the book and I may have glossed over the whole top of Dragonmount as his conclusions, to me at least, make zero sense in a cyclical time line. Doing better then next time means nothing when you always have to come back to the same spot. No matter what you do, everything is going to end up the same regardless. Rand's madness tends to come and go as the plot needs, for me it worse in the Dragon Reborn where Rand goes totally feral and barely seems to have a grip on himself at all then reverts to being completely sane when he reaches Tear. Can't say I know the specifics, but like magic, dude. If you mean literally - they are both alive at the same time so they cannot be the same soul. I have seen people speculating, maybe about the show, I cannot remember, that Lews Therin, Lanfear, Ishamael, and others were comparable to Third Age Team Rand, and the reason that Lews Therin failed was that they failed, not him. But in canon, they could not literally be the same people (or at least reborn souls like Lews Therin/Rand), though I guess the Pattern could be using them as analogues or some such. It of course also gets a bit more confusing when you consider that Rand is the Creator's Champion, but the Pattern is interested in balance, not the victory of the Light. So it seems like counting ta'veren as only forces for good would wrong - if the Light was too strong, the Pattern would even things up - perhaps with a Shadow aligned Mat. Welcome to Dragonmount, Hero 🙂 (sorry where are my manners?) Hope you have a great time here. Though the only thing I'd like to point out that many people that love the books also loved the show, many also couldn't care less and many hated it. But it would be wrong to assume that any one group's subjective opinion is somehow better than another's.

Welcome to Dragonmount, ShockExit 🙂 I hope that everything is going well with your knee There should somewhere be a list of characters per chapter so you could home in on their descriptions but I have failed to find one. I did see some stuff on reddit when I was searching but did not quite feel up to that site at the moment. Perhaps someone with the ducks more in a row than me will be able to point you to a suitable resource. The artwork is amazing 🤎And total props for including the real star of the books, Bela 🙂

Welcome, Andrew 🙂 That was an incredibly detailed intro post 🙂 sounds like you will fit right in here. Look forward to seeing you about.

I'm afraid not. I would guess that it is something specific to the producers of the audiobook, which appears to be Audiorenaissance if my ears are hearing right but no idea how you would go about identifying it.

Were they not staying/traveling together? So they just assumed that they were married, obviously putting the same stock in marriage as patriarchal societies do. If I remember correctly at least.

I think also for the ta'veren is that they pull and enmesh each other. If everyone in the party from the Two Rivers had been a ta'veren they would have been locked into the deep gravity well that is the Dragon. You could look at the doubts and willfulness and denial of responsibility (Mat) or the overcommitment to responsibility (Perrin) not being the cause of the ta'veren status but being necessary to survive being a ta'veren (especially around Rand) and still get the stuff that needed to be done done. Like if Perrin had not been so dead set on killing himself for his family, he wouldn't have been there to accidentally cause a revolution in the Two Rivers which would have huge impact later on when they march to the Fields of Merrilor. Just like the Band would never have been formed if Mat wasn't trying to run away. If they had not resisted being ta'veren and the pull of Rand, none of that would have happened. Unless of course the ta'veren works on a deeper level and everything was fated to happen exactly like that, but then there would be no point discussing it at all then. Also it means that Nynaeve and Egwene achieved what they did through their own grit and determination without the help of the Pattern smoothing their way.

Good morning, Tanchico 🙂 I love the smell of Balefire in the morning. Er, not sure where that came from. It is awesome to have you on Dragonmount and hope you have a fantastic time here. Plus all the things Ithi said. We also have things like a Discord server where people talk and whatever people get up to on Discord. Look forward to seeing you about 🙂

As I remember it, she originally left the Two Rivers and then chose to pursue the One Power solely because of her desire to protect the Emond's Fielders who were her responsibility. Lan was a later and much more secondary reason for her rivalry with Moiraine. It may have provided her with additional motivation for learning to channel, but it wasn't why she ripped up her life, nor was it why she enrolled in the Tower. As I remember it anyway.

From what I have seen, absolutely everyone hates something about the books. And every time you think you have found one thing that everyone agrees was weak, you'll find someone popping claiming that is their favourite bit of the book bar none. It is one of the appeals of the books and the community, I think.

Actually, according to Jordan the publisher picked up his pitch for a story that would be five-six books and he was given six and told if it was five he could just write something else for the sixth. Because "he liked the way [Jordan] writes". Not that I disagree that editing could very well be a lower priority as books progress and the story gets more locked in and the power of the author increases. Didn't Rowling sack her editors? Maybe that is just a malicious rumour I heard.

I would shy away from calling myself a writer as I have never managed anything outside of Nanowrimo, but I came across a program called yWriter. It is just a word processor more or less but it has some nice touches like allowing you to put the point of view, characters, setting, outline and such per scene or chapter. So you can for example check that your main character's pov has more words than a secondary character, and you can generate an outline by only showing each chapter's, etc, and it is just useful to have all that info without having it in a separate document or in the main narrative either. Each chunk is separate so you can move them about while looking at the higher info, such as pov and word count. It is free to use and it is an author who just shares the tool that he uses. It is still being kept uptodate and may have more features now as I haven't used it in years and years. You can find it here if you think it sounds interesting yWriter8 by Spacejock Software

I am prone to towering rages myself, but for me I find that rage is a destructive and unhappy emotion. At least it is in me. It is the negation of all the things I hold dear and cherish - kindness, empathy, reason, logic, love, self-sacrifice, humour... perhaps you can control your emotions better than I can. Now mad fancies I can get more behind.

I'm sorry but... what exactly is the question?