It appears that one good thing the TV show has done is to get Henrywho into enjoying the books...even if he doesn't like what the TV people have done to them 😎 I do agree with many on here that a number of rather unnecessary changes have been made. End of the day , the TV writers will have to own that for better or worse. Confess I am a little puzzled as to why some of those changes have been made ; and wonder whether the knock on effects ca be satisfactorily handled : guess we will see in time. TV versions of novels often need to be "adapted". A comparison I would make with Apple's effort with Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" series of novels , currently two seasons in. Now I first read the novels decades ago and always realised the challenges facing a TV version : (1) Too much of the "action" takes place off page and is only conveyed by conversations between characters ; (2) the story spans centuries so any actors would only be around for half a dozen episodes or so ; and (3) much of the narrative is a bit on the "dull" side - bit like a very broad historical lesson. The TV show has managed it rather well so far - though upsetting some book fans in the process. The characters retain essentially nothing but their names (in some cases swapping gender and background) ; but still manage to achieve similar results for the main storyline as their book counterparts. And several lead characters are being kept alive throughout by some nifty use of suspended animation periods , cloning , or somehow downloading consciousness into some sort of quite solid holograms ... ok it doesn't really make sense if you look too closely but it does enable the viewer to invest in the characters and humanize what would otherwise be a rather sterile "grand galactic saga"... I was a bit taken aback at first but I have come to appreciate what they are doing and hope they can nail the rest of the story when the next couple of seasons land. It is certainly different from the books ; but still carries very much the same overall theme : so I am happy to call it a true and basically faithful adaptation. (Sorry for the long ramble ) But I only raise this to compare with WOT because I do feel some of the changes wrought in this show are not really made because Jordan's original version won't work on screen , so much as the TV runners' desire to tell "their" story - which I think is primarily what has annoyed those on here who are sounding off most vigorously on this thread 🙂 So yes I guess I am in the camp of those who deplore many of the "variations" that Samt listed a couple of pages back. I too wish they were a bit more faithful to the original : but on the other hand I will still give them a tick if they can land the final product over the next few years. Will wait , watch and hope...

I guess the Children of the Light are pretty much a bunch of religious fanatics (plenty such around in our own modern world , alas !) who are not prepared to listen to anything that conflicts with their rigid beliefs. But yes , Byar is annoying in his stubborn and never changing hatreds... Dain Bornhald on the other hand has more nuance - and ends up doing a good thing for one of our heroes : so they aren't quite all black and white...

Having already expressed my somewhat mixed feelings about the TV show , I have to say that I am also a little uneasy about the prospects for running the thing to a satisfactory conclusion - as the posts immediately above reference. The point has been well made by several posters that a lot of alterations to the story were necessary in order to have any hope of fitting 14 books into 8 TV seasons. So book fans have had to "suck up" some simplifications already. But : two seasons down ; and we are only at the end of book two. So essentially nothing saved yet. I know there should be scope for cutting a fair bit from books 7-11 but even so it might be a bit of a battle to fit everything in without some fairly savage cuts - some of which are going to upset a lot of people. Suppose everyone will have personal lists of what must stay in ; though I imagine a number of events are non-negotiable ? ( Perrin's defence of his old home town ; Dumai's Wells ; the taking of The Stone ; Rhuidean ... just for the next four books -- add in your own as inclined) My fear is for what will be jettisoned in order to trim things down. I do reckon the Finn are already gone , and presumably therefore Moiraine won't be missing seasons (along with Lanfear) - as she seems to be the main character rather than Rand in this particular "turning" I suppose that makes sense. But it will distort the story further (how will Lan and Nyneave fare ?) Presume we will still see the wisdom facing off with Moggy but maybe the whole travelling circus will be surplus to requirements... Truth is I have no idea what will be cut/changed ; but I do think as we progress the show is going to diverge even more dramatically from the books , to the point where it may become nearly unrecognizable. And I suppose that will have the merit of enabling us book fans to be surprised at times 🙂 But I am not altogether confident that the overall result will be all we might hope - and may not be the hit with non-book viewers that the show runners are targeting. (I say this not just because of the variations , but based on the rather clumsy handling of a couple of key moments during these first two seasons) Hey I may just be in a pessimistic mood ; maybe the scriptwriters will get better as we go and they produce a still riveting (though obviously vastly simplified) version of the whole saga ) I should just wait and see ; but those are my current concerns.

4 ,5 and 6 probably my favourites. And I was quite happy with the way Sanderson finished the job - though it was a great pity RJ didn't survive to see it to the end in his own way (might have ended up with 16 books of course ! ) But it is like trying to pick a favourite child : on a given day I might have almost any one volume higher or lower for one reason or another. Envy anyone new to the series and getting to enjoy each book for the first time...

Seems this general topic will continue to divide posters - and fair to say there are one or two who are maybe slightly over zealous ? in defence of the show : with others equally determined to take issue with almost everything about it ... Haven't entered into the discussion before and afraid I won't really add anything very useful ; but just to make my views known : Overall somewhat disappointed by the TV show - but in truth I came into it rather expecting that . As others have pointed out , adapting 14 books in which a huge amount of the story is told through the internal monologues of POV characters was always going to be "difficult" to say the least. And of course the urge to appeal to a wider audience than the avid book fans was also likely to lead to some , shall we say , cheap tricks ? - to spice up the action. Bit more sex , more big explosions early , characters doing things they aren't really qualified to do yet... so ready to forgive some of the initial changes. (The COVID issue also obviously made life harder for everyone so cutting more slack on that account) So even if things didn't match what I had in my mind's eye ( we all had pictures of the main characters , I am sure , based largely on descriptions : and fair to say some of them are not at all alike ... but I can live with that.) And if the entrance to The Ways was a bit of a downgrade on the books , it's just one detail (I will be savage if the Tower of Ghenjei is scrubbed though ! But if Mat's already acquired his memories and talents , suggesting the 'Finn aren't going to be needed , that looms as a danger. Ouch.) Ah well , have to enjoy whatever they do offer... But where I do feel a bit let down is in the weakness of some of the writing. The ending for the first season was awful - as I think even the supporters of the show concede. COVID alibi , yeah. And to be fair the book ending of EOTW was a bit messy so again , difficult to get right. But honestly Tarwin's Gap just looked silly - they'd have been better off leaving it off screen altogether and just reporting some version of events back in the city from returning troops. As for :" she has a tell" - oh please ! And the need for confecting some kind of unrequited love triangle among the EF five ? Just poor...but not enough to stop me returning for season two. And honestly , second season much better, Plenty of divergence from the books , some flat bits - but generally pretty good I thought. Until the end ... and then once again they made a pigs breakfast of the final scenes. With all the CGI ability they have , why reduce the battle for Falme to a lot of hand to hand street fighting , with the Heroes of the Horn (who had scant introduction) merely beating up a couple of dozen Seanchan guards ? And then (over)compensate for spectacle by having Moiraine almost casually wipe out the entire invading fleet with a few fireballs...I mean , who needs The Dragon ? And while the subtlety of Ishy basically letting Rand stab him - while rather early in the story ! - has some appeal , it made for a rather limp finish. Some people claim they are happy with all that but I reckon it rather spoiled what had been a hugely improved effort for seven episodes. Anyway , still ready to watch on and hope the third season will again improve. Even if it doesn't , at least glad they finally got around to putting the story on film and I am grateful to the showrunners for that , so don't want to come across as a total grouch. Just a touch of fear that the further TV shows slip away from the source material (eg late season GOT !) the worse they get. In this case the story is all written so maybe all will be fine in the end : keeping fingers crossed !

Very much agree with this. True of all the major characters , really. I might think that some of the more minor characters (particularly sundry Aes Sedai ) come across as rather one-dimensional ; but perhaps that is mainly because unless they are given serious POV time we can't see inside their heads. One can criticize some aspects of Jordan's work - but I don't think he can be faulted on character creation or development. They all live quite vividly and believably - at least for me.

Unfortunately for that theory , Danelle is not the other member of "the Three". She is in fact a solitary Brown with virtually no friends (making her a very convenient target for takeover). The "Three" are actually all Blues : Cabriana , Anaiya , and Kairen (the latter two both murdered by Arangar.

This is just all too hard as I love (or love to hate) a lot of the wonderful characters in these books... but , (loosely and subject to change of mood) : To start with the definite choices : Mat and Nynaeve as the top picks among the "Principal" characters - by a distance. (Honourable mentions to Thom and Min) As for the supporting cast : Verin , Juilin : and then in no particular order Talmanes , Birgitte , Siuan , Bayle Domon , Aludra ........ and Lanfear (as Selene , really 🙂) - as someone has to represent the Dark Side... But honestly could name another dozen just as easily. And have probably forgotten some minor appearances that charmed me when I first came across them. That'll have to do for now.

Haha ... stick with it , melkah : I was of a similar view re Nynaeve in those early books ; but by the end of the whole thing she had become very much my favourite female character. One of the strengths of Jordan's writing is the way his characters don't fall into easily defined pigeonholes - and they really do develop and change throughout . Except for Bela , of course . She is always perfect 🙂

Thanks , Elgee. I see by the "most loved characters" thread that Juilin doesn't get enough attention on here...

Think Jordan might have pinched this "knives up sleeves " trick from Frank Herbert's Dune series...the Tleilaxu were constantly offing unwary opponents by flicking the aforementioned implements across the table. RJ certainly borrowed a bit from Herbert so reckon this is reasonable ?

And that is also my first venture into posting on here , though I have been reading on and off for some time as a guest. So greetings to all and may hopefully try and find something interesting to add to the discussions as time goes by...

Confess I only read New Spring after two complete readings of the 14 books. Didn't really rate it , to be honest - perhaps I will like it better if/when I re-read.