Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
yoniy0

Who *are* you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

Nakomi's ture identity  

305 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was Nakomi?

    • Just a random Aiel
    • A Jenn Aiel, somehow still around by TG
    • A time-traveler, someone from earlier days
    • Verin, she's all over the place, that one
    • An effect of the Wheel, or maybe a Creator-avatar
    • A Hero of the Horn
    • Lanfear
    • Graendal
    • Moghedien
    • Moridin
      0
    • Demandred
    • Taim
    • Tigraine


Recommended Posts

 

I dont think any of the suggestions so far fit v well. The Creator has spoken to Rand twice - once at the start of his journey, once at the end, and thats it. Egwene time travelling, or speaking from the Pattern after her death, dont fit either. So i have to label this as unexplained. Hard to see how a Jenn Aiel could survive all this time. Even if she was trapped in some sort of stasis, or via one of those vacuoles which Moridin stuck Moghedien in for a while, that would not explain how aware she was of the past, present and future. The best explanation I can think of is that she is some sort of ghost or something, related to the Pattern and reality breaking down as the Dark One breaks free

 

You know what? That's actually an excellent explanation, as far as I'm concerned. The dead were walking the earth and interacting with people. Both RJ and BS showed us moments where that was to the detriment of people, this is a moment where it is to their gain.

But she knew about Rand's body swap plans.  No normal ghost could possibly now that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I dont think any of the suggestions so far fit v well. The Creator has spoken to Rand twice - once at the start of his journey, once at the end, and thats it. Egwene time travelling, or speaking from the Pattern after her death, dont fit either. So i have to label this as unexplained. Hard to see how a Jenn Aiel could survive all this time. Even if she was trapped in some sort of stasis, or via one of those vacuoles which Moridin stuck Moghedien in for a while, that would not explain how aware she was of the past, present and future. The best explanation I can think of is that she is some sort of ghost or something, related to the Pattern and reality breaking down as the Dark One breaks free

 

You know what? That's actually an excellent explanation, as far as I'm concerned. The dead were walking the earth and interacting with people. Both RJ and BS showed us moments where that was to the detriment of people, this is a moment where it is to their gain.

 

The dead were just walking the earth, but they were not interacting with people at all. The supposed "ghosts" never showed any sign they had any awareness of their surroundings. Which is why I dismiss the idea of Nakomi as a ghost, she doesn't behave like they did.

 

I also don't think the ghosts were actual ghosts at all, but more like temporal anomalies, portions of the past bleeding into the present as the Pattern weakens and frays. 

 

I have no real theory on who or what Nakomi was. Nothing I can come up with seems to fit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I posted on some other thread about Nakomi being a Hero of the Horn, my reasoning being:

 

There was a lot of debate about when Aviendha met Nakomi on the way to Rhuidean about their encounter being in the World of Dreams due to the extra coals in the fire, food cooking fast and tasting great etc.

 

When Aviendha asked Bair about it she said it was "an ancient name", like out of a legend perhaps?

 

At the end TAR and the waking world merged, as evidenced by Lanfear's plan to kill Moiraine and Nynaeve (who were in waking world SG) and the Horn being blown gives a Hero access which could be explained as a merging of the worlds.

 

To me it fits with other explanations provided in book (mostly by Verin) such as portal stones and the worlds of if, and TAR cross-hatching the pattern of worlds and dreams and could even explain how Randidin lit that damn pipe by thought. Could even go so far as to say that it could be the reason the One Power gets forgotten/made redundant in some future age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people make too big a deal about Nakomi.  There are always going to be questions and theories about a book when it's finished.  We don't even know for sure it was Nakomi at the end when Rand carried Moridin from the Pit of Doom.

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't take anything away from the story to have her thrown in there.  Either way, I thoroughly enjoyed the book.  It was an emotional rollercoaster for me and the best book I've read in a long time.  I'm not satisfied with the ending, but at the same time, I will admit I never wanted it all to end anyway.

 

A voice of reason?  :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I posted on some other thread about Nakomi being a Hero of the Horn, my reasoning being:
 
There was a lot of debate about when Aviendha met Nakomi on the way to Rhuidean about their encounter being in the World of Dreams due to the extra coals in the fire, food cooking fast and tasting great etc.
 
When Aviendha asked Bair about it she said it was "an ancient name", like out of a legend perhaps?
 
At the end TAR and the waking world merged, as evidenced by Lanfear's plan to kill Moiraine and Nynaeve (who were in waking world SG) and the Horn being blown gives a Hero access which could be explained as a merging of the worlds.
 
To me it fits with other explanations provided in book (mostly by Verin) such as portal stones and the worlds of if, and TAR cross-hatching the pattern of worlds and dreams and could even explain how Randidin lit that damn pipe by thought. Could even go so far as to say that it could be the reason the One Power gets forgotten/made redundant in some future age.

 

That's a possibility.

 

My take on the pipe thing at the end of the story is that Rand was able to pluck the strings of the pattern in his 'battle' with the DO. He now knows how to manipulate the pattern itself from his experience. He's ascended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I know... Since she only appears in the books that Brandon wrote it's Hoid!  :p  Just kidding, the WoT world is not part of his cosmere.

I think it is actually the creator or mother earth type being of the world.  Just an opinion and I really hope that we find out when the encyclopedia is released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an original Jenn Aiel but one of the original AS that directed the Jenn. She never died but went into hybernation, was awakened shortly after water was brought back to Rhuidian and is nafariously returning to her role in directing the Aeil. Either that or just another creator figure that RJ wanted put in to play with our heads

Edited by CUBAREY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an original Jenn Aiel but one of the original AS that directed the Jenn. She never died but went into hybernation, was awakened shortly after water was brought back to Rhuidian and is nafariously returning to her role in directing the Aeil. Either that or just another creator figure that RJ wanted put in to play with our heads

 

That seems too elaborate a story line for to not to be explained in the books.

 

I don't discredit the notion of her being one of the original Aes Sedai though, as we know they are the only people to live long lives, so I thought that it might be one of them too.  Do we know their names?  Also there is something in the way Nakomi is quick to tell Aviendha she means no harm after Avi takes hold of the source, so possibly she can sense the true power?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember when people asked Tolkien, who is Tom Bombadil, he said that there should always be something in a story which is a mystery to even the author, Maybe that is what Nakomi is too

 

 

This is what I've been thinking too.  Just something tossed in there to show that even once the story's done, there will always be mysteries and unexplained things in the world.

 

That, though I do like the theory mentioned earlier about how she's Egwyne's counterpart from the previous turning of the wheel, and the next time the third age rolls around, it will be a mysterious figure named Egwyne who does what she does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not an original Jenn Aiel but one of the original AS that directed the Jenn. She never died but went into hybernation, was awakened shortly after water was brought back to Rhuidian and is nafariously returning to her role in directing the Aeil. Either that or just another creator figure that RJ wanted put in to play with our heads

reminds me a bit of Buffy season 7, when we suddenly find out in the penultimate episode that the male Watchers had a female counterpart called Guardians who have guarded the Scythe for the final battle. She turns up out of nowhere, does her bit then goes away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like a couple of people upthread, I like the idea of Nakomi = Tigraine. Perhaps she's a HotH, and manifested herself to Avi (a la Birgitte) as the future grandmother of her children by Rand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Not an original Jenn Aiel but one of the original AS that directed the Jenn. She never died but went into hybernation, was awakened shortly after water was brought back to Rhuidian and is nafariously returning to her role in directing the Aeil. Either that or just another creator figure that RJ wanted put in to play with our heads

reminds me a bit of Buffy season 7, when we suddenly find out in the penultimate episode that the male Watchers had a female counterpart called Guardians who have guarded the Scythe for the final battle. She turns up out of nowhere, does her bit then goes away

haha yea that was pointless...not only that but she was under sunnydale all along

 

okay no more hijacking from me haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like a couple of people upthread, I like the idea of Nakomi = Tigraine. Perhaps she's a HotH, and manifested herself to Avi (a la Birgitte) as the future grandmother of her children by Rand.

 

Now THAT would have been a great outrigger story.  From Andor royal, to Aiel maiden, to giving birth to the savior during battle on Dragonmount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She's nothing but a piece of intrigue placed in the books for the fans to be intrigued about. This is made clear by three things.

 

1. Her existence was not something RJ plotted for this book but something based on something Brandon found 'deep in the notes'. Which leads us to two.

2. Brandon has disavowed using the notes--rather, when he needs something, he goes and asks Maria, who does the research.

3. She didn't really do anything. Or rather, she did nothing that wouldn't have occurred just as easily without her presence.

 

Brandon needed something (a mystery for the fans, perhaps--one may note his likening of Nakomi's role to the fandom with Asmodean's), went to Maria who provided him with something he could use, and ultimately the entire thing had little to no plot relevance.

 

I feel this way as well.  Such a completely pointless character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like a couple of people upthread, I like the idea of Nakomi = Tigraine. Perhaps she's a HotH, and manifested herself to Avi (a la Birgitte) as the future grandmother of her children by Rand.

This one seems to jive the most with me so far. For some reason, I've gotten stuck on the parallels with the Song of Hiawatha and it seems like the Nakomi = Shaeil/Tigraine thing should fit in there. I don't see how yet though. It's the idea that seems to have the most in story purpose so far. All the others just seem to be "Oh well this too." kind of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nakomi WAS NOT a lame plot point. She was in RJ's notes, and I believe that the way she was included in just two scenes was very well done by Brandon Sanderson. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

 

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

 

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

 

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

 

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

 

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

Edited by Erdrick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

 

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

 

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

 

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

 

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

 

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

 

I recall RJ said Saidar being tainted wouldn't fit the wheel (as the Dragon, supposedly, is always male too, and all).

 

Plus, it makes the wheel feel unbalanced. One Age of strife (well, and the end of the AoL) and risk to the world, and after that 6 ages of happy la-la land?

IF she is the Champion or caretaker or such, I'd think it much more likely she's from the 6th/7th Age or so. A time when the Wheel is saved by a woman, possibly, or simply a time when she had to step up to bring peace. Rand now gets to be caretaker for 2-4 Ages, and then she (or a third) takes the reins again in a new incarnation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

 

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

 

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

 

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

 

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

 

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

Rand is the CoL, it is his soul that is spun out time and again for that purpose and souls don't change gender.

 

Aan'allein

It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?

 

Robert Jordan

It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world

that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound

to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's

purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.

 

Aan'allein
But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...
Robert Jordan
...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male,

just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's

soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are

not interchangeable.

 

 

Interview: 2001                                                         
Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)                                                                                   
 Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel)                                            

Robert Jordan                                           

 

Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is

one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I

didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nakomi WAS NOT a lame plot point. She was in RJ's notes, and I believe that the way she was included in just two scenes was very well done by Brandon Sanderson. 

 

 

I liked her parts. People are upset that they're not getting an answer about who she is. I agree... if she was found somewhere in RJ's notes, I like her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Nakomi WAS NOT a lame plot point. She was in RJ's notes, and I believe that the way she was included in just two scenes was very well done by Brandon Sanderson. 

 

 

I liked her parts. People are upset that they're not getting an answer about who she is. I agree... if she was found somewhere in RJ's notes, I like her. 

The idea that lead to the character came from something "deep in the notes", so Vambram isn't exactly correct with his statement. I believe Luckers has the right of it from what he said happened earlier in thread.

Edited by Suttree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suttree, thanks for citing sources...I guess that quashes this theory. And avernite, I like the adaptation you give it. Who knows what challenges the other ages face? Stepping outside of the pattern (which I think is a requirement for acquiring the pattern weaving powers necessary for a new Caretaker to take over) may be necessary in some other age for reasons other than dealing with the DO. For instance, whatever it is that makes the One Power disappear for a time (perhaps at the end of the 5th or 6th age), and whatever it is that makes the One Power return in the 1st age. So here's my new guess: Nakomi = Tamyrlin (the one who brings channeling the One Power back to the world in the 1st age, becoming Caretaker from that point until Rand takes over at the start of the 4th age). And yes, I know this is just crazy speculation off of zero evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually could care less (yes, that's how you use THAT phrase, lol) who Nakomi is. I NEVER cared. ... What works me up is the PRACTICE that Team Jordan has now taken in refusing to asnwer questions fans have. It is inexcusable. See my above post. It is sickening.

 

 

Fish

 

You could care less about who she is? So you do care some? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...