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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Rhiadon

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  1. How about this idea? When we first see Nakomi, Aviendha is in TAR as has been suggested. The text does seem to support it. But who or what is she? If we accept that she's in TAR what kind of people do we know that have helped our heroes in the past that regularly inhabit TAR. Heroes of the horn, that's who. But why would she help Aviendha. Maybe she is Shaiel/Tigraine. Tigraine is dead, and was Rand's mother. She could know that Aviendha is Rand's lady and is also an Aiel so she could have a propensity to help Aviendha because of her connections to her from her most recent spinning out (if she is Tigraine). The timing fits as well, because the Heroes who had not been spun out yet or ejected from TAR would still be there since the horn hasn't been sounded by Olver yet. So now let's talk about the scene with Rand in the epilogue. (of course this hinges on accepting that the Aiel woman is Nakomi.) Rand see's her fade away. This sounds like something a Hero of the Horn would do when their time in the real world is up. The timing fits, I think, for that to be happening because about in the same time frame the other Heroes are leaving. Again, if it's Tigraine, she would have affection for her son from time spent as Tigraine. I don't have an explanation for the name Nakomi being ancient except the ties to Nokomis. But I can't make that fit except for the parallels with the song of Hiawatha. Nakomi could just be the name she identifies with most as a Hero of the Horn when she was spun out as a legend of the Ojibwe people's. Obviously this is complete speculation, but I don't see any contradiction with the text and is even supported a bit by the text.
  2. This one seems to jive the most with me so far. For some reason, I've gotten stuck on the parallels with the Song of Hiawatha and it seems like the Nakomi = Shaeil/Tigraine thing should fit in there. I don't see how yet though. It's the idea that seems to have the most in story purpose so far. All the others just seem to be "Oh well this too." kind of things.
  3. I found the similiarities between the Song of Hiawatha/Ojibwe legends to be quite fascinating. So I'm going to plop some of the intereting things here so that we can use them as discussion fodder. (Hiawatha being the name Schoolcraft used for the figure of legend instead of Manabohzo and then Longfellow used as well) 1. Nakomi is very similar to Nokomis, the grandmother of Hiawatha. 2. Nokomis is the Daughter of the Moon, falling from the moon in "unremembered ages" 3. Hiawatha's mother, Wenonah, dies in childbirth and was abandoned by Hiawatha's father Mudjekeewis (The West-Wind). 4. Hiawatha falls in love as a child with Minnehaha 5. Hiawatha's arrival is prophesied by Gitche Manito. I've not really drawn any conclusions yet from any of this. These were just the interesting tidbits that jumped out at me. I plan to actually read the Song of Hiawatha and see if anythign else falls out. I do have some early thoughts though. There seems to be something to Nokomis falling from the moon in unremembered ages. The Sharom, the giant white sphere floating above the Collam Daan in the Age of Legends comes to mind, But it hasn't led me anywhere. Hiawatha's mother dies in childbirth akin to Tigraine Hiawatha falls in love with Minnehaha. Rand falls in love with Min. Hiawatha's arrival is prophesied by Gitche Manito. Rand's is fortold by Gitara Moroso. There's got to be more to this it seems. Please feel free to pick apart my ideas so that maybe we can get somewhere with these ideas. This is a funn kind of mystery.
  4. So the general topic of Nakomi is far beyond interesting. Made more interesting by the fact that Brandon has been forbidden from talking about it. Does it warrant it's own thread of discussion? There seem to be several threads of discussion going on in this thread and it's gets a smidge jumbled. I'm not allowed to make a thread or I'd do it myself. Particularly, I'd like to start talking about the obvious similarities to the Song of Hiawatha. There's more than just the name Nokomis/Nakomi. It might help dredge up clues if we start laying them out.
  5. Here is that line: "We don’t know why the Lord Dragon would save one of the Forsaken, but it doesn’t matter. We can’t Heal him either. They’re dying. Both of them." You've left out an important piece of information. The full paragraph is as follows: "We found them together," Flinn said. "Rand must have carried him out of the pit. We don't know why the Lord Dragon would save one of the Forsaken, but it doesn't matter. We can't Heal him either. They're dying. Both of them." Damer makes an assumption that Rand *must* have carried him out of the pit. He wasn't there. Nynaeve could have been and she doesn't contradict him when he states this. But Damer saying the word "must" indicates it's speculation, probably related by Nynaeve or Moiraine or Thom who had the highest likelihood of of being there and "Shouting." as the first section of the Epilogue indicates happened before Rand went unconscious. I think it most likely the transmigration either happened while Rand had control of Moridin via Callandor in the pit or it happened when the "random" Aiel woman told him that was what he must do, meaning he should move his soul to an empty vessel before his current body dies.
  6. I think it is a problem because other people saw that scene. Who else saw that scene? I thought it was just Rand and the "random" old Aiel lady that told him this is what he should do. I suspect that Nynaeve and Moiraine and Thom could have been there, but were they stated to be there? Also, even if they were there, why does it matter if they saw? Did Rand say anything to these observers? Why did they not notice the "random" old Aiel lady? I'm at work right now so I don't have my book. It's important to me but I don't carry it with me all the time. :)
  7. Regarding the body swap: We know Rand and Moridin had some kind of bond from the balefire incident in Shadar Logoth. We know that they could sense each other and that Rand could access the TP through Moridin. It seems quite possible that during the time when Rand was channeling a massive amount of the OP and TP to put the Dark one back outside of time in its prison, that the body swap may have just occurred. I don't think we know that Rand was in his original body when he left the cave. Given the state of delirium and ehaustion that he must have felt, he may have been carrying his own body on autopilot akin to a soldier in battle that picks up his arm after it was blown off. What good is that going to do? I need to read the scene of him exiting the cave again, but I think this fits. It may not have been a deliberate and conscious action on his part. Moridin probably didn't even have a choice considering the flaw in Callandor.
  8. I couldn't find anywhere that said one of the heroes rode a shaggy brown horse. Hend rode a large bay, and and Jain/Noal a white. It seems to me like Noal should have gotten Bela, not just some anonymous fancy white horse. Both of them were more than they seemed, and connected to Olver. Although the whole super-pony performance was a bit ridiculous for a cart horse, unless whatever Rand did to her in EoTW was permanent! It's *NOT* written in the book that one of the HotH rode a shaggy brown mare. I *DECIDED* that one of the HotH who was either not mentioned or we didn't see on screen was riding her. Therefore, in my mind, she's tied to the Horn, not as a Hero but as a faithful steed for one of them.
  9. Bela nailed me. I was a wreck for the rest of the evening. I read that part at about 9 pm and was oringally planning to read until 11pm. I put the book down and moped around the house until I went to bed. After doing a bunch of thinking about that though I have decided something: Even though it's not written, when the Heroes of the Horn appeared, one of them was riding a shaggy brown mare. That is the way it will stay for me no matter what anyone else says. The odd thing is that I wasn't a major Bela fan. She was just there and it was cool that she was there. She was in the first freaking chapter for goodness sake. She deserves better than to just die on a battle field in such an ignominious way. So she's now a steed for a Hero of the Horn. I was mad that Egwene died, but it was glorious. The fact that I read the last words made me very sad. They were great words. Very awesome bookending to the series, flipping the litany on it's head. Then during the funeral, Rand not going to his father. That man was the reason all of this happened. He raised Rand right and loved him which gave Rand the strength he needed to do what was necessary. The man deserves another hug!
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