The Show Has Been Cancelled

[expat]

On 5/23/2025 at 7:52 PM, zacz1987 said:

I hope this opens up the possibility of an animated series in a few years that is more book accurate.

Boy are you setting yourself for disappointment.  Many of the same issues that caused changes in the series will still be present in an animated series and it can't and won't be as book accurate as you seem to want. 

There is so much characterization done via POV.  Unless you want a ton of voiceover dialogue, all this will need to be rewritten to happen in other ways.

 

There are too many characters.  There will still be a lot of culling of the story.

 

At the height of the book series, there were 8-10 different unrelated plot threads happening at any one time.  This is impossible to follow in a series, animated or not.  There will still be a lot of culling of the story.

 

Once you cull paragraphs. pages, or chapters of the book, you need to write new material to bridge the gaps.

 

An animated series might be "closer" in an abstract sense, but will still not be "close" to the books. 

[WoT_TV_Was_Trash]

On 5/23/2025 at 8:53 PM, Elder_Haman said:

This is a pretty limited way of thinking about a series like the Wheel of Time. It’s so vast that many people love certain aspects and dislike others. 
 

I have no doubt that Rafe loves the Wheel of Time. And I have no doubt that you do as well. It’s just that you each love it for vastly different reasons. 

Amen. But man, Rafe and I really loved different aspects of the story. I think the show would have been more successful if he had chosen to focus on Rand’s hero’s journey. 

[WoT_TV_Was_Trash]

On 5/24/2025 at 12:53 AM, Elder_Haman said:

You didn’t like it. I did. Your opinion is not superior to mine because you restate it in sarcastic, condescending language.

Whether one liked it or not is entirely subjective. But objectively speaking, Rafe changed a TON about Rand. And objectively, The Dragon was the backbone of the series. 

[WoT_TV_Was_Trash]

On 5/24/2025 at 7:09 AM, Elessar said:

The worst mistake was to create the illusion that the Dragon Reborn could be either male or female. In what world was this a good choice? The whole danger-element with the Dragon Reborn being male with his Saidin and fears he will destroy the world in madness is gone if the Dragon Reborn is a female. You just cannot make such a radical change if you care for and are faithful to the source material regardless of wanting to keep excitement as to the reveal for viewers (and be politically correct). Some changes you just don’t make. It is disrespectful and damaging to the integrity of Robert Jordan’s vision and books.

 

…

 

What they should have done instead? I see several options. To stay faithful to the books they could/should have had the epic opening from the Prologue in the Eye of the World, with Ishamael and Lews Therin. It might have seemed a little strange to viewers not having read the books but would have been a hell of a lot better than what they gave us. A second option would have been to start as with Rand and Tam in the books. A third option, if they needed something more exciting/dramatic, would have been to have started with a Lord of the Rings-type beginning with a voiceover speaking and showing events happening in the Age of Legends, the War of Power and thereby giving a proper backstory to the saga. Three minutes of this could have done the job, so a solid opening. 

 

…

 

The ending at the Eye is also revisionist, changing everything, and disappointed me.

Amen to all of this. These were the MASSIVE MISFIRES that tainted Season 1 and, really, doomed the rest of the series. There is no excusing these decisions. 

[WoT_TV_Was_Trash]

On 5/24/2025 at 9:21 AM, Elder_Haman said:

He didn’t “attempt to rewrite the books”, he attempted to adapt them to the screen.  That’s a completely different thing. 

I think that’s a stretch of the word “adapt.”

[zacz1987]

I don't think anyone, including myself, expect or even really want a 100% word for word adaption. Of course things need to be cut but they can do so and still follow the books a lot better than the show did.

 

A lot of fluff that was really not relevant to the story was added to the show and it really didn't help to condense it in any meaningful way. Many things were changed for reasons other than condensing the story.

[Irvyne]

I've been in many different minds about this over the last few days.

 

It is disappointing that the show has been unceremoniously abandoned when it was left without any kind of conclusion. I know money money, and all that, but it would have been nice if they'd said, "Okay. We'll give you three or four more episodes to wrap it up. Do what you must." No, that would not have been ideal, or even close to it. But even if there had been a "two years later..." leading into some kind of finale, at least it would have ENDED.

 

At the end of the day, I can't say I'm heartbroken. The show has infuriated me over the past few years. But it is disappointing at the same time. At the end of the day, I think the licence was given to the wrong team to adapt, and they seemed to misunderstand so many fundamental aspects of what made the books so beloved. The rumours that came out of the writers never having read the books were not difficult to believe.

 

When it came down to it, although the broad strokes of the story were heading generally in the same direction as the source material, there was barely a single scene or conversation that was actually in Jordan's version of the story. The writers felt like they just had to rebuild everything from scratch. Not only was this completely unnecessary, it made the story worse. And I'm not talking about trimming and cutting. Of course everybody expected there to be lots of cuts to a 14-book epic. But just CHANGING things for no apparent reason. As I said, infuriating for those of us who had been waiting decades to see this beloved story brought to life, only to realise, this isn't the same story I read. This is something written by someone else.

 

Having said that, there were definitely some bright moments. On the whole, I quite liked the cast. Josha as Rand, Donal as Mat, Zoe as Nynaeve, Meera as Verin and Laia as Moghedien were probably my faves. Even though she's clearly a great actress, Rosamund Pike's Moiraine didn't feel anything like book-Moiraine to me, and that character should definitely not have been the lead.

 

In season 2, Nynaeve's journey through the arches and Egwene's capture by the Seanchan felt legit to me. It finally felt like the show was beginning to channel (heh) the spirit of the books. But then everything was completely bungled with that stupid final episode. In season 3, there were moments that definitely felt like a step in the right direction. The episode of the Trakands in the White Tower, though technically off-book, felt like the characters were being who they were supposed to be. I LOVED the scene of Moghedien toying with Elayne and Nynaeve. And of course, the brilliant Rhuidean episode. When the writers TRUSTED the source material and just, y'know, told the story, it showed moments of the brilliance it could have been. But then there'd be more episodes of Alanna the pincushion getting impaled and healed again, or other such idiocy.

 

Anyway, it's over now. To my mind, the show was an epic missed opportunity. I doubt I will watch it again. As others have mentioned, I'd love to see some kind of animated reimagining a few years in the future. (My mind goes to that comic-book version of Eye of the World that was made. I loved looking at that.) Whether it actually ever happens or not... Well, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills...

[Pumbaa]

59 minutes ago, Irvyne said:

I've been in many different minds about this over the last few days.

 

 

This. I watched the series so I was not the reason they had poor viewership, but at the same time I was disappointed in so many things. Feels like lose-lose situation for WOT fandom going forward.

[Vartija]

I've said it before but for me the turnoff was the fundamental differences in focus and themes between what I valued in the books and what Rafe/Amazon did. Starting from season 1 the show just missed so many of the moments and themes I valued and focused on stuff that I really wasn't that much interested in. Every time I'd read an article about Rafe's vision for the show I was kind of left puzzled by how secondary the themes brought up felt to me compared to just bringing the story from the book to screen. 

 

I kind of feel like if this production crew had created their own stories based in the World of the Wheel of Time that I would have been more forgiving of the product. To me it felt like the writers never really trusted the source material and were more comfortable in creating their own stories. It felt like the writing was often at its sharpest when it was something they came up all by themselves.

 

In hindsight Rafe's vision might have been better for adapting New Spring where the focus was on Moiraine and other Aes Sedai, White Tower dynamics and the warder bond with Lan. 

[DavyDrones]

On 5/24/2025 at 3:52 AM, zacz1987 said:

I hope this opens up the possibility of an animated series in a few years that is more book accurate.

I agree with you. There are some really good animations out there. WOT can be adapted into one too.  

Edited May 27 by DavyDrones

[Figs and Mice]

On 5/25/2025 at 1:41 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I wonder how much of an anchor RoP was on WoT. Rings of Power is far worse from a writing/story telling standpoint. But they’re stuck with 3 more seasons. 
 

Since they have to spend on RoP, they had to find other places to save. 

Could well be true.  But I guess one telling factor in this might be that ROP could fairly easily be wrapped up in (maybe two more ?) seasons , but WOT really was never going to be viable in less than 8. 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Figs and Mice said:

Could well be true.  But I guess one telling factor in this might be that ROP could fairly easily be wrapped up in (maybe two more ?) seasons , but WOT really was never going to be viable in less than 8. 

There was a 5 season commitment to RoP from the jump. They are forced to spend on it. 

[Figs and Mice]

So a pity WOT didn't have a similar commitment - to 8 ?  But realistically that was never happening .  I suppose they only have so much money to invest in a new show and if it isn't raking in the big sums it ain't going to last...

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Figs and Mice said:

So a pity WOT didn't have a similar commitment - to 8 ?  But realistically that was never happening .  I suppose they only have so much money to invest in a new show and if it isn't raking in the big sums it ain't going to last...

The irony is that WoT was more profitable than RoP.  Amazon allowed the car to be repo’d so they could keep making payments on the huge house they bought. 

[Jaccsen]

I am really sorry for those who enjoyed the show. I kept coming to Dragonmount to read the discussions to see if I should give it another try. I really wanted it to work. It seemed that S3 was an improvement but still clove to most of what drove me away from it.

 

I doubt there will be another opportunity for it in the future. A lot of the fiction contemporary to WoT is disappearing from modern shelves...

[Raal Gurniss]

Didn't like what I watched, so I didn't keep watching it.

 

Felt it would inevitably be cancelled well before it got a full run....Massive shame given how excited I was when it was announced to be made.

 

Truth of the matter is that it wasn't good  enough to continue and lost vast swathes of the audience who felt betrayed for lack of a better word.

 

Even so I am dismayed it was cancelled as I know friends and family (very much the minority of) who enjoyed it, so I feel for them, despite their poor taste in shows.

 

Perhaps if the showrunners pandered to the majority share of the audience rather than having a go at them then it might have had a longer run.

 

I wonder what effect it will have on continuing book sales...I know over the decades I bought 2-3 copies of each book and the audiobooks, but in all honesty the show put me right off the lot.

 

Mix of feelings on the cancellation all in all though, meh.

 

All I lost is what might have been.

 

 

[WheelofJuke]

While I didn't watch past season 1, one thing I did like was Barney Harris as the first Mat. While I dislike some of the story changes regarding Mat and his backstory, I felt the actor himself was well cast and capable of "book Mat."

I wonder if we'll ever find out (if we haven't already) whatever happened in regard to him leaving, etc. 

His leaving before season 1 wrapped really put up warning signals that all might not be well in a broader sense with the production. 

 

Edited May 27 by WheelofJuke

[KakitaOCU]

Here's one thing I'm confused about.   Why do people think it's reasonable to get an animated series anytime soon?

Let's look at Amazon's Big Animated shows that came out in the last 5 years.  We have essentially three categories.  Super Big IPs that had some sort of Celebrity backing.  Super Big IPs that have casual appeal, Super Big IPs that brought in their own Money.  And a sort of 4th in Super Big IPs they are already running and the animation is a spinoff, like Diabolicol.

The First category is looking at things like Invincible.  Where the show is done well and gaining popularity, but started with Celeb support pushing it.

The Second Category is something like their Angry Birds show.

The Third is going to be your Hazbin Hotels and Legends of Vox Machina where there was already tons of money and a huge fanbase and Amazon just jumped on board to lighten the load.  (Vox Machina in particular is a shining example of this.  The company who owns it did a Kickstarter with a goal of $750k for what would have been the first two episodes of season 1.  Then stretch goals up to 8.8 Million that would cover all of season 1.    They didn't expect it.  They raised 11 million.  They didn't get picked up by Amazon, they walked to multiple studios already having the money to produce season 1 entirely and chose Prime.)

In all honesty, WoT has none of this.  
 

 

[Goathill]

6 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

In all honesty, WoT has none of this.  

This is the reason so many of us despised the show, it damaged the IP with fanfic quality crap.

 

The chances of getting something now are pretty bad. 

 

 

[king of nowhere]

6 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Here's one thing I'm confused about.   Why do people think it's reasonable to get an animated series anytime soon?

 

In all fairness, while it is completely unreasonable to expect an animated series as things stand, the ai has done so much progress lately, it wouldn't be too outlandish to imagine that in 10 or 20 years a descendant of sora may be able to produce an entire show if you just give it a script - which you could generate by asking the improved chatgpt to adapt the books. 

Total budget, 100$ in electricity. 

 

That is my one and only hope of seeing such an adaptation. Because another studio pulling out big money on a show that already failed? Not going to happen

 

[wotfan4472]

On 5/26/2025 at 9:19 AM, Elendir said:

 

A person cannot grow if they only see faults in the things around them instead of their own actions.

Got to disagree on that. If Judkins did not want the story done and did not love it, Rhuidean, and Mat with the Eelfinn would not exist.

 

If he did not think that Siuan deserved a better send off than the off page death she got, and a better look at her character than even the books gave, she would not have showed up at all. She would just be name dropped the entire time.

 

If Judkins was like DnD, Mat would have been killed off at the end of season 1, and would have done a stupid story to say Liandrin, or Lanfear did it. His story would have been totally cut out.

 

Perrin if he was like the director of Last Jedi with Luke? He would be a drunk wife abusing hobo.

 

The fact his favourite character is Egwene, we got her exactly how she is in the books character wise, as Rand was.

Then, we got Faile, which is pretty much as I viewed her from the books.

[Sabio]

I still find it amusing people dislike the dragon could be a woman thing so much, it was only tossed in to try and build suspense for the people who had never read the books.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

27 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I still find it amusing people dislike the dragon could be a woman thing so much, it was only tossed in to try and build suspense for the people who had never read the books.

Especially in a book where possibly the most repeated theme is unreliable narrator, that the prophecy was misunderstood (if you must insist that the Dragon would always be a man in the Third Age) seems to be completely on point. 

[Guire]

46 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Especially in a book where possibly the most repeated theme is unreliable narrator, that the prophecy was misunderstood (if you must insist that the Dragon would always be a man in the Third Age) seems to be completely on point. 

Time was one of the big resources this adaptation wasted telling the story that Amazon and Rafe wanted to tell.  A feminist corrective to GoT may have been fine if really well executed.  Keeping 3 male Ta'verran storyline as backbone while squashing and diminishing their stories made the show way worse than it could have been.  If you are going to make a coconut themed dinner don't include steak and asparagus.  I do not solely blame Rafe but in hindsight this show was probably always doomed.

[Raal Gurniss]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

I still find it amusing people dislike the dragon could be a woman thing so much, it was only tossed in to try and build suspense for the people who had never read the books.

That wasn't the reason they did it....