Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)


Barid Bel Medar
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 963
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What does the title "A Memory of Light" mean?

 

Well, we're not told directly. I see it as meaning that the Shadow has spread across the land (both figuratively and literally (the clouds blocking the sun)), and times before that are only a memory. AMoL was also Jordan's original title for all three of the most recent books. The title parallels Rand's descent into darkness and his epiphany on Dragonmount.

Edited by Agitel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Here's something that just occurred to me

 

Apparently, once someone goes over to the dark one their soul is damned for enternity. However, we know that both Rand's soul and Moridin's soul have been spun out many times. We know that Moridin as Ishmael started out as a good guy - non-damned. We know that Rand's soul has gone over to the DO before. So.... how are these two, and many others, not spun out as evil doers already linked to the DO in every age?

Well, we've seen that Verin and Ingtar have redeemed themselves, but granted, assuming that a soul hasn't redeemed itself, I'm wondering if the DO has a permanent hold or not.

I was under the impression that Ingtar and Verin only redeemed themselves in deeds, they did not break the DO's hold on them. That's what made Verin so courageous and honorable; she did the unthinkable to fight the DO.

I'm not completely certain either, but after reading elsewhere on this forum, it seems that they indeed broke the hold the DO had on them. Also recall Ingtar's words that no one under the shadow is so far gone that they can't redeem themselves, as well as Egwene's farewell to Verin that she has returned to the Light.

Have to say this: Verin never left the Light, so no need to return. I like to compare her to Snape in HP, but it's not really the same. Snape was a true Death Eater who turned on Voldemort when he killed the woman he loved. Verin was always an agent of Light working behind enemy lines. When you go that deep undercover, there's just things you gotta do, like make vows to the DO. I feel that's pretty clear in the text.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does the title "A Memory of Light" mean?

I think it is completely up to the reader's interpretation (unlike most of the other titles which have a direct reference to properties or events in the book).  I think of it as partially referring to RJ (although I'm sure that wasn't the original intention), and partly in the sense that its the end of the series, and the whole series will become 'A Memory of Light'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume that the DO's hold over death ends when the pattern sends a soul to be reborn.

 

How is Rand able to light his pipe at the very end if he can no longer channel and is no longer Ta'veren?

 

 

What is the place that the 3 Musketteers "dream" about with the impossible arches, bridges and ramps, that seems to be described exactly how the Ways are described?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Avi approached Rand's tent, she felt a surge of excitement and weight lifted off of Rand through the bond.  Min exited the tent right as Avi pulled open the flap.

Or perhaps: "As Aviendha approached Rand's tent, she felt a surge of excitement. She pulls open the tent and see's Min...her face goes beet red, and she slowly backs out of the tent and pulls it closed."

:P

 

 

He didn't only need a little bit of Healing.  I think he was Healed sufficiently to get him safely off the battlefield and be taken to Mayene for more intensive care. 

 

I can't remember the quote, but I think BS says something to the effect that its up to the reader what they want to believe with regards to that.  I don't think he/RJ had intended in that way, but IIRC, it was something along the lines of it not being wrong to interpret it as Rand bringing him back to life either.

I read it that Rand focused his "Ta'veren-ess" on Lan to keep him going until he could be found and healed.

 

 

I would have been happier with Lews Therin knowing about the flaw.  I don't see why he wouldn't know.

Callandor was created during the Breaking, after the death of Lews Therin following his mission to seal the Bore.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Callandor was created during the Breaking, after the death of Lews Therin following his mission to seal the Bore.

 

Nope.

 

 

Interview: Oct 28th, 2005 Jason Wolfbrother
Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes.
Jason Wolfbrother
Was it used in the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.
Jason Wolfbrother
Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?
Robert Jordan
The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.

 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of the prophetic-type talents actually ever benefit anyone in the series?  I am at LoC in my re-read of the series, and Egwene mentioned numerous times during her time with the Wise Ones that it was very important for her to learn how to interpret her Dreams, and now Min keeps saying its important for her to be with Rand so she can tell him what auras she sees around people.  While these talents are pretty cool narrative devices for the reader, I am struggling to come up with any examples of when they actually are helpful, but am sure I must be missing something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do any of the prophetic-type talents actually ever benefit anyone in the series?  I am at LoC in my re-read of the series, and Egwene mentioned numerous times during her time with the Wise Ones that it was very important for her to learn how to interpret her Dreams, and now Min keeps saying its important for her to be with Rand so she can tell him what auras she sees around people.  While these talents are pretty cool narrative devices for the reader, I am struggling to come up with any examples of when they actually are helpful, but am sure I must be missing something.

 

I'd argue that it's important for the introduction of Cads, Rand would never have accepted her without Mins viewing, also it allows him some small measure of trust for AS in general after his time in the Box...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is the song the tuathan search for ever revealed. or is it all just wrapped up as they were once aiel and they were assisting the wounded at the end... that little exerpt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is the song the tuathan search for ever revealed. or is it all just wrapped up as they were once aiel and they were assisting the wounded at the end... that little exerpt

There is no and never was a "song". It was a myth that come from the "voice" talent and songs of growing in the AoL.

 

 

 

Interview: Aug 27th, 1999Troy Terry

Seriously, though, any bets on whether the Tinkers will ever find the Song? I bet it's the harvest song from Rand's Aiel memories.

STEVEN COOPER

I asked RJ about this when he was in Melbourne last week, and (amazingly) got a straight answer.

Robert Jordan

The Song the Tinkers are seeking is the song Rand heard in Rhuidean—or, to be exact, the memories of that song and others like it have become merged, over the years, into the concept of one mystical Song.

 

 

 

Interview: 2013
Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)
Jay Fonseca (23 January 2013)
So I always wondered... what ever happened to the Tinkers' song? Did I miss a resolution to that arc?
Brandon Sanderson (23 January 2013)

By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of A Memory of Light.

Brandon Sanderson

The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.

TJ

Do you imagine that Rand teaches "the song" to the Tu'athan after the events of A Memory of Light?

Brandon Sanderson

Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song.

Aaron Oster

Wait, are you saying Rand's song that Mat recognized wasn't the Tinkers' song?

Brandon Sanderson

The Tinker "Song" is an ideal that goes far beyond any song that has actually ever existed.

 

 

Edited by Suttree
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aes Sedai bonds cause that pretty consistently, the bondee goes insane when the Aes Sedai dies and if the Warder dies, the Aes Sedai suffers grief to varying degrees for months. As for Egwene, we haven't seen a PoV character lose a Warder so far off the top of my head, but there's Suian in LoC and chat about it among others off the top of my head. There's some subtle stuff that Alanna was pretty messed up as well, not sure if multiple Warders make it any easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did Heroes of the Horn know what would happen in the future? 

In WOT what will happen is what happened. The Heroes had stayed in TAR for more than one circle, that means they had experienced everything more than once. So did Birgitte know she would became Elayne's warder when she met her? Did she know Olver would sound the horn? 

It seems she didn't know these things. Then my question could be why didn't the Heroes know what would happen in the future?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did Heroes of the Horn know what would happen in the future? 

In WOT what will happen is what happened. The Heroes had stayed in TAR for more than one circle, that means they had experienced everything more than once. So did Birgitte know she would became Elayne's warder when she met her? Did she know Olver would sound the horn? 

It seems she didn't know these things. Then my question could be why didn't the Heroes know what would happen in the future?

Time doesn't repeat exactly - the big picture stays the same, but the little details change. The closer you get, the less alike they will look. So the Heroes don't know what will happen in the future because it hasn't happened - they know only the most general things that will happen, the specifics can all be different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have three:

1) Why does the death of Siuan and Gawyn affect their bond mates so much? Alanna got over it in like three days. 

2) Crap I forgot.

3) And this one too. Haha 

 

 

Aes Sedai bonds cause that pretty consistently, the bondee goes insane when the Aes Sedai dies and if the Warder dies, the Aes Sedai suffers grief to varying degrees for months. As for Egwene, we haven't seen a PoV character lose a Warder so far off the top of my head, but there's Suian in LoC and chat about it among others off the top of my head. There's some subtle stuff that Alanna was pretty messed up as well, not sure if multiple Warders make it any easier.

 

There's also the fact that Gawyn was Egwene's husband, so his death probably hit her even harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did the Red Sisters (Tarna Feir, Melare, Jezrail, Javindhra Doraille) dies in the battle of the Black Tower? When Androl was abled to weave gateways again in the basement and used them against Taim and his crew. We know that the Red Sisters were turned to Shadow, right?

Edited by libbe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there is a direct mention of the fate of the turned Reds. Hundreds of Aes Sedai died; and only a handful were mentioned by name. 

 

My question regarding Min's viewing of Mat with a dagger through a Raven. Was that interpreted or discussed anywhere? What does it mean? My initial though was that Mat and Min would lead the transformation of the Raven Empire into something better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Do any of the prophetic-type talents actually ever benefit anyone in the series?  I am at LoC in my re-read of the series, and Egwene mentioned numerous times during her time with the Wise Ones that it was very important for her to learn how to interpret her Dreams, and now Min keeps saying its important for her to be with Rand so she can tell him what auras she sees around people.  While these talents are pretty cool narrative devices for the reader, I am struggling to come up with any examples of when they actually are helpful, but am sure I must be missing something.

 

I'd argue that it's important for the introduction of Cads, Rand would never have accepted her without Mins viewing, also it allows him some small measure of trust for AS in general after his time in the Box...

 

Min's viewing about Alivia led Rand to trust the former damane, so that Alivia was able to play a vital role in fighting off Lanfear/Cyndane during the Cleansing. And as mentioned above, led Rand to trust the captive AS enough for them to negotiate for him among the Sea Folk and Tairans etc to stop them fighting so that he could get them organised and ready to fight TG. Min also saved Tuon and Mat from Moghedien.  

 

I cant think how Nicola's foretellings were of any use. Elaida's worked against her, as she led herself to believe SHE was the Amyrlin who would direct anger against the Dragon Reborn, and she wasted all that time going after Elayne when it was both Elayne AND Rand who were the keys to the Last Battle. 

 

I also cant think of how any of Egwene's dreams helped, other than the warning about the Seanchan attack on the WT. She didnt manage to work out the ones about her and Gawyn in order to avoid their deaths. 

 

Tuon's damane seems to have Foretold that Tuon would marry Mat, leading her to him. 

 

Of course the single most vital ones were the foretellings of Gitara Sedai, who sent Tigraine into the Waste where she could meet the Aiel and conceive Rand, and then her last Foretelling warned Suian and Moiraine that the Dragon was Reborn. 

 

Of course she also sent Luc away, where he was captured and merged with Isam into Slayer. Why was this essential? The only thing I can think of, is that Slayer acted as a nemesis for Perrin, forcing Perrin to become a master of the Wolf Dream - look at how the other wolf brothers, the one who went crazy and Elias, mostly avoided it. Perrin became a master and was thus able to fight in TAR and defeat Lanfear at the crucial moment and save Rand during TG. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think Foretellings, and Dreams are an important theme in the WoT, that knowing the future (or a probable future) does not help, and perhaps even hinders a persons ability to make choices that affect or incorporate the future - i.e., knowing the future can be just as bad, or worse than not knowing. (btw, i HATED Min's scenes in AMoL!).

 

How can a channeler release a warder bond? Prior to amol, it seemed that only death, or transferring the bond, can break the bond between an AS and her warder. It's certainly possible to transfer the Warder to a different AS, and it seems likely that the AS can transfer the bond to a different warder, but 'erasing' the bond is viewed as being impossible until AMOL?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think Foretellings, and Dreams are an important theme in the WoT, that knowing the future (or a probable future) does not help, and perhaps even hinders a persons ability to make choices that affect or incorporate the future - i.e., knowing the future can be just as bad, or worse than not knowing. (btw, i HATED Min's scenes in AMoL!).

I kind of wondered if this was what RJ intended, although Phoenix UK has pointed out some good examples where it did seem to help.  I could only think of negative things, like Min's viewings of AS harming him driving him from Caemlyn to Cairhien and Elaida's embassy, and Min seeing the vision of Rand's severed hand, but then ironically being the one that made him lose it by insisting on accompanying him because she thought her viewings would help.

 

I also wonder if Elayne, Aviendha, and Min (and Rand's wider group of friends) would have been able to accept their love-quadrangle if Min hadn't told them that she had viewed it and therefore it was inevitable that they would share him.

 

How can a channeler release a warder bond? Prior to amol, it seemed that only death, or transferring the bond, can break the bond between an AS and her warder. It's certainly possible to transfer the Warder to a different AS, and it seems likely that the AS can transfer the bond to a different warder, but 'erasing' the bond is viewed as being impossible until AMOL?

 

I don't remember anything in the books ever saying it was impossible to remove the bond prior to AMoL, although it does seem odd that Elyas' Aes Sedai chooses to permanently mask the bond rather than release him, as he definitely does not act as her Warder anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

About releasing the bond:

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 20th, 2004

TOR Questions of the Week Part I (Verbatim)

WEEK 13 QUESTION

Is the White Tower currently aware of any way to completely dissolve/undo the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder so that the link no longer exists and all the positive and negative effects of the bond are removed?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes, they are. It is called releasing a Warder, and an Aes Sedai who is very old or injured so badly that she knows she is going to die will, if she has the strength, release him so he doesn't suffer from her death. This does require the two of them to be together, and a little more time that laying on the bond. If they are physically apart, or she doesn't have enough time or strength remaining, touch on him.

 

It has also been used to get rid of a Warder who proved to be unsuitable in some way, such as a man who is discovered to be a thief or who takes reckless chances, a fighter of duels who won't stop without the bond being used to force him. No sister is going to want a Warder who will risk getting himself killed, with all the attendant results to her, for no very good reason.

 

Although use of the bond in that way (controlling) was not unknown in the past, it came to be regarded as a form of Compulsion to use it so except in the slightest forms. Besides, using the bond to control a Warder all the time is a lot of work. An Aes Sedai wants somebody who can watch her back and keep it safe, not somebody she has to work on all the time. (Which is one of the reasons Aes Sedai stopped bonding men against their will. Not ethical concerns or ethical growth, I'm afraid; it was just not very practical really.) Better simply to release the fellow who can't measure up and find another who will.

 

By the by, releasing a Warder except for cause (the Aes Sedai's imminent death, his own unsuitability) or because he has asked for release is something that JUST IS NOT DONE! It would gain the sister considerable opprobrium from other sisters. A sister certainly would be looked at askance if she released a Warder who was dying, for example, just to avoid the effects on her of his death. When an Aes Sedai bonds a Warder, she is expected to buy in for the full ride. For that matter, releasing him for unsuitability is considered to reflect on the sister's judgment. She should have known better about him from the start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

About releasing the bond:

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 20th, 2004

TOR Questions of the Week Part I (Verbatim)

WEEK 13 QUESTION

Is the White Tower currently aware of any way to completely dissolve/undo the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder so that the link no longer exists and all the positive and negative effects of the bond are removed?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes, they are. It is called releasing a Warder, and an Aes Sedai who is very old or injured so badly that she knows she is going to die will, if she has the strength, release him so he doesn't suffer from her death. This does require the two of them to be together, and a little more time that laying on the bond. If they are physically apart, or she doesn't have enough time or strength remaining, touch on him.

 

It has also been used to get rid of a Warder who proved to be unsuitable in some way, such as a man who is discovered to be a thief or who takes reckless chances, a fighter of duels who won't stop without the bond being used to force him. No sister is going to want a Warder who will risk getting himself killed, with all the attendant results to her, for no very good reason.

 

Although use of the bond in that way (controlling) was not unknown in the past, it came to be regarded as a form of Compulsion to use it so except in the slightest forms. Besides, using the bond to control a Warder all the time is a lot of work. An Aes Sedai wants somebody who can watch her back and keep it safe, not somebody she has to work on all the time. (Which is one of the reasons Aes Sedai stopped bonding men against their will. Not ethical concerns or ethical growth, I'm afraid; it was just not very practical really.) Better simply to release the fellow who can't measure up and find another who will.

 

By the by, releasing a Warder except for cause (the Aes Sedai's imminent death, his own unsuitability) or because he has asked for release is something that JUST IS NOT DONE! It would gain the sister considerable opprobrium from other sisters. A sister certainly would be looked at askance if she released a Warder who was dying, for example, just to avoid the effects on her of his death. When an Aes Sedai bonds a Warder, she is expected to buy in for the full ride. For that matter, releasing him for unsuitability is considered to reflect on the sister's judgment. She should have known better about him from the start.

 

This was not mentioned in the books, AFAIK. for the casual reader this would seem to be a surprise (especially when considering that Alanna refused to release Rand's bond when asked several books later, if i remember correctly).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Do any of the prophetic-type talents actually ever benefit anyone in the series?  I am at LoC in my re-read of the series, and Egwene mentioned numerous times during her time with the Wise Ones that it was very important for her to learn how to interpret her Dreams, and now Min keeps saying its important for her to be with Rand so she can tell him what auras she sees around people.  While these talents are pretty cool narrative devices for the reader, I am struggling to come up with any examples of when they actually are helpful, but am sure I must be missing something.

 

I'd argue that it's important for the introduction of Cads, Rand would never have accepted her without Mins viewing, also it allows him some small measure of trust for AS in general after his time in the Box...

 

Min's viewing about Alivia led Rand to trust the former damane, so that Alivia was able to play a vital role in fighting off Lanfear/Cyndane during the Cleansing. And as mentioned above, led Rand to trust the captive AS enough for them to negotiate for him among the Sea Folk and Tairans etc to stop them fighting so that he could get them organised and ready to fight TG. Min also saved Tuon and Mat from Moghedien.  

 

I cant think how Nicola's foretellings were of any use. Elaida's worked against her, as she led herself to believe SHE was the Amyrlin who would direct anger against the Dragon Reborn, and she wasted all that time going after Elayne when it was both Elayne AND Rand who were the keys to the Last Battle. 

 

I also cant think of how any of Egwene's dreams helped, other than the warning about the Seanchan attack on the WT. She didnt manage to work out the ones about her and Gawyn in order to avoid their deaths. 

 

Tuon's damane seems to have Foretold that Tuon would marry Mat, leading her to him. 

 

Of course the single most vital ones were the foretellings of Gitara Sedai, who sent Tigraine into the Waste where she could meet the Aiel and conceive Rand, and then her last Foretelling warned Suian and Moiraine that the Dragon was Reborn. 

 

Of course she also sent Luc away, where he was captured and merged with Isam into Slayer. Why was this essential? The only thing I can think of, is that Slayer acted as a nemesis for Perrin, forcing Perrin to become a master of the Wolf Dream - look at how the other wolf brothers, the one who went crazy and Elias, mostly avoided it. Perrin became a master and was thus able to fight in TAR and defeat Lanfear at the crucial moment and save Rand during TG. 

 

 

Really nice summary!

 

I've read some speculation that Mordeth was important as a possible counter to the Dragon, if he fell.  It's possible Luc/Isam fulfilled a similar role.  I guess it's also possible that he was needed to make Perrin stronger who was needed to save Rand from Lanfear, but that seems a little wishy-washy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

About releasing the bond:

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 20th, 2004

TOR Questions of the Week Part I (Verbatim)

WEEK 13 QUESTION

Is the White Tower currently aware of any way to completely dissolve/undo the bond between an Aes Sedai and her Warder so that the link no longer exists and all the positive and negative effects of the bond are removed?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes, they are. It is called releasing a Warder, and an Aes Sedai who is very old or injured so badly that she knows she is going to die will, if she has the strength, release him so he doesn't suffer from her death. This does require the two of them to be together, and a little more time that laying on the bond. If they are physically apart, or she doesn't have enough time or strength remaining, touch on him.

 

 

I thought Egwene released the bond as she was pushing Leilwin through a Gateway in AMoL, i.e. very rapidly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...