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Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)


Barid Bel Medar
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First post!
I don't understand what happened to Perrins wife Faile after she distracted the trollocks. and how did Perrin find her?

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My question(s)

 

Why were Aginor / Osang'ar and Asmodean nowwhere to be seen in aMoL? surely they would have been valuable enough for Mr DO to put their souls into new bodies for the purposes of TG.

Adding to that, why didn't the DO / Shaidar Haran or Moridin or any halfwit darkfriend kill off Mesaana after Egwene had broken her, thus allowing the DO to place her into a new vessel.

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asmodean was killed by balefire, therefore could not be transmigrated, and osangar and mesaana were likely not transmigrated as punishment. (speculative)

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asmodean was killed by balefire,

 

This one has always been debated a bit as RJ was quoted as saying "how and where" played a role in Asmodean not being able to be resurrected.

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I think also it takes time for the Dark One to grab the soul and re incarnate it. It took a while from book 1 to book 6 before Aginor was reincarnated as Osangar/Dashiva and Balthamel as Arangar/Halima. Lanfear similarly took a while from book 5 to reappear as cyndane in book 8? 9? So I dont think there was time for Mesaana to come back. I dont think the Dark One wanted aginor back, he wasnt exactly a great success in this Age. Asmodean was caught and forced to betray the Dark one - again, not someone the Dark One would want back - although having said that, He did keep moghedien after she was caught in the a'dam which was odd, as she did nothing useful again , even her attempts at Compulsion on the seanchan during the LB was foiled. 

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in TGS, when Semirhage starts torturing Rand, she is dumbstruck when Rand channels the True Power of the Dark One. This is the point where Rand goes downhill. 

 

Was access to the TP merely a side effect of Rand and Moridin's merging? Or did the Dark One purposefully give him access in order to taint him and drive him further to the Shadow? Shaidar haran could even have been rescuing Semirhage in order to set her up to threaten Rand so taht he was forced to reach for the TP. 

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Was access to the TP merely a side effect of Rand and Moridin's merging? Or did the Dark One purposefully give him access in order to taint him and drive him further to the Shadow? Shaidar haran could even have been rescuing Semirhage in order to set her up to threaten Rand so taht he was forced to reach for the TP. 

That is still being debated and IIRC we have no concrete answer...

 

 

Question
Is Rand's access to the True Power via his link with Moridin, created at Shadar Logoth?
Brandon Sanderson

No one may channel the True Power without the Dark One's permission, and Rand doesn't have that.

Footnote—Terez

This answer was challenged by another person who was at the Q&A, though Freelancer said later his question was asked at the signing table. Link broken.

Writo

Oy,

I was at that signing, I was literally right next to Brandon as he answered this question, and that is far from his exact wording.

The response was more accurately something like: So far as we know, no one may channel the True Power without the Dark One's permission. Semirhage certainly seemed to think she was betrayed.

There was never a comment about Rand not having permission.

Footnote—Terez

After this came to light, Matt Hatch asked Brandon about it, and he said that he never said Rand didn't have permission. Later I asked him if one normally has to visit Shayol Ghul to get permission, and he said yes. Freelancer responded thus:

Freelancer

Brandon's later answer has to take precedence. He says that he didn't specify directly whether Rand did or did not have the Dark One's permission. That is what everyone must operate by, as his word is now canon. That does not change what I wrote down as my questions were being answered.

As to Writo's comments, I can only offer this. The comment by Brandon about Semirhage believing she had been betrayed was definitely in response to someone else's question. It did not come up with mine, but I do remember hearing it.

 

 

 

Terez
Does one typically (emphasized in the list he was reading) have to visit Shayol Ghul to be granted permission to use the True Power?
Brandon Sanderson

Um...(pause) Yes. I see what you're fishing for there.

TEREZ

Well, I mean...obviously. I didn't think I would slip that one past you.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah.

FOOTNOTE—TEREZ

I was mainly following up on Freelancer's question. Despite the confusion, most fans believe that Rand accessed the True Power through his link with Moridin (and most also believe the Dark One is okay with this, despite not having granted explicit permission). Brandon's answer to Freelancer seemed to confirm that, but then Brandon denied he had actually said that.

 

 

 

Edited by Suttree
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One also has to take into account that Asmo had actually died along with Mat and were both "brought back" upon Rand's Balefiring of Rahvin.

If Mat's death there was enough to sever his link with the Horn, it might not be overly far fetched to think that the DO lost his connection to Asmo for a short time as well and couldn't re-establish it in time to grab his soul after Graendal killed him.

 

Another theory of course is that, because of the amount of Balefire Rand used, that the pattern was kinda in flux there at the time.

Enough so that the DO couldn't get a fix on Asmo's soul or thread if you will. 

 

 

My loose theory, based on how fast Graendal thought of escaping to a mirror world and her reasoning behind it, was that she took him to one first.

It's a little weak though and one has to interpret the line "The word still hung in the air when death took him." a little more literally or less literally, depending how you want to look at it.  

Edited by Finnssss
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Was Asmodean the only one to have his 'black cord' connecting him to the DO cut? Since the DO wasn't bringing back normal Darkfriends, maybe it took a Black Cord for this? Rand not being able to see Saidar might have led him to believe it was to protect against the taint, but maybe that was just another effect and the women forsaken had one too. A death could be felt through the cord and the DO would be able to bring them back. Asmo had the cord cut, so the DO couldn't.  Not sure how well thought out this is, just a knee jerk thought

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While Demandred had his knowledge from books, Mat got his knowledge from memories........ This battle reminds me of another real world battle...... the Battle of Waterloo. Napolean should have won his battle and didn't. Thakan' dar, however,  reminds me of the Dunkirk and Gallipoli debacles. The first shows the overwhelming arrogance of the enemy despite their brilliance, while the other shows what happens when your side finds themselves in awful circumstances. Coming from one half of the Anzac tradition, it is actually quite possible a battle can turn out this way. 

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While Demandred had his knowledge from books, Mat got his knowledge from memories........ This battle reminds me of another real world battle...... the Battle of Waterloo. Napolean should have won his battle and didn't. Thakan' dar, however,  reminds me of the Dunkirk and Gallipoli debacles. The first shows the overwhelming arrogance of the enemy despite their brilliance, while the other shows what happens when your side finds themselves in awful circumstances. Coming from one half of the Anzac tradition, it is actually quite possible a battle can turn out this way. 

 

Demandred did plenty of fighting during the War of Power, and it's said that they perfected the art of warfare. As for the comparison with Waterloo, I don't really agree. At very best, all things considered, the odds were even at Waterloo, hardly the case at the Last Battle. While Napoleon could certainly be arrogant I don't think Waterloo is a very good example of it. Varro showed arrogance at Cannae and underestimated Hannibal. And at Austerlitz the allied commanders were also overconfident..

 

Beyond that, I don't think that Demandred understimated Mat either. Afterall recall that he believed he was fighting Lews Therin Telamon, and while Demandred believed himself the better general, he was also perfectly willing to admit LTT's own brilliance. The battle only truly swung in Mat's favor after Demandred's death. Even Egwene's sacrifice wasn't enough to give Mat the advantage. Both Gawayn and Lan saw it true: taking out Demandred was key to winning the battle.

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Ishamael had his cords cut in the Eye of The World.

 

The Cords no longer mattered after the end of Book 9.

Not to mention, they had little effect or were even needed in Ishy's case as he used the True Power exclusively anyway.

 

 

While Demandred had his knowledge from books, Mat got his knowledge from memories........ This battle reminds me of another real world battle...... the Battle of Waterloo. Napolean should have won his battle and didn't. Thakan' dar, however,  reminds me of the Dunkirk and Gallipoli debacles. The first shows the overwhelming arrogance of the enemy despite their brilliance, while the other shows what happens when your side finds themselves in awful circumstances. Coming from one half of the Anzac tradition, it is actually quite possible a battle can turn out this way. 

 

Demandred did plenty of fighting during the War of Power, and it's said that they perfected the art of warfare. As for the comparison with Waterloo, I don't really agree. At very best, all things considered, the odds were even at Waterloo, hardly the case at the Last Battle. While Napoleon could certainly be arrogant I don't think Waterloo is a very good example of it. Varro showed arrogance at Cannae and underestimated Hannibal. And at Austerlitz the allied commanders were also overconfident..

 

Beyond that, I don't think that Demandred understimated Mat either. Afterall recall that he believed he was fighting Lews Therin Telamon, and while Demandred believed himself the better general, he was also perfectly willing to admit LTT's own brilliance. The battle only truly swung in Mat's favor after Demandred's death. Even Egwene's sacrifice wasn't enough to give Mat the advantage. Both Gawayn and Lan saw it true: taking out Demandred was key to winning the battle.

 

 

Demandred only believes that they/he had perfected the art of War. Mat was his superior in every sense of the word. We're taking about Demandred's 10 years of commanding to Mat's 1500+ years of seeing battle from every angle possible. It really is no contest.

It was only Demandred's overwhelming numbers that even allowed him to compete with Mat.

Given an even playing field and Mat smokes him 12 ways from Sunday.

Edited by Finnssss
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What exactly did Mat do that was so awesome during the Last Battle?  I actually mean that non-sarcastically as I read AMoL so quickly that the tactics of the LB kind of blurred together and four months on I'm struggling to remember what Mat's tactics were.  All I can recall is that he faked an argument with Tuon and had the Seanchan withdraw, but they didn't seem to have much of an effect when they came back.  Could someone give me a brief summary?

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Ishamael had his cords cut in the Eye of The World.

 

The Cords no longer mattered after the end of Book 9.

Not to mention, they had little effect or were even needed in Ishy's case as he used the True Power exclusively anyway.

 

 

While Demandred had his knowledge from books, Mat got his knowledge from memories........ This battle reminds me of another real world battle...... the Battle of Waterloo. Napolean should have won his battle and didn't. Thakan' dar, however,  reminds me of the Dunkirk and Gallipoli debacles. The first shows the overwhelming arrogance of the enemy despite their brilliance, while the other shows what happens when your side finds themselves in awful circumstances. Coming from one half of the Anzac tradition, it is actually quite possible a battle can turn out this way. 

 

Demandred did plenty of fighting during the War of Power, and it's said that they perfected the art of warfare. As for the comparison with Waterloo, I don't really agree. At very best, all things considered, the odds were even at Waterloo, hardly the case at the Last Battle. While Napoleon could certainly be arrogant I don't think Waterloo is a very good example of it. Varro showed arrogance at Cannae and underestimated Hannibal. And at Austerlitz the allied commanders were also overconfident..

 

Beyond that, I don't think that Demandred understimated Mat either. Afterall recall that he believed he was fighting Lews Therin Telamon, and while Demandred believed himself the better general, he was also perfectly willing to admit LTT's own brilliance. The battle only truly swung in Mat's favor after Demandred's death. Even Egwene's sacrifice wasn't enough to give Mat the advantage. Both Gawayn and Lan saw it true: taking out Demandred was key to winning the battle.

 

 

Demandred only believes that they/he had perfected the art of War. Mat was his superior in every sense of the word. We're taking about Demandred's 10 years of commanding to Mat's 1500+ years of seeing battle from every angle possible. It really is no contest.

It was only Demandred's overwhelming numbers that even allowed him to compete with Mat.

Given an even playing field and Mat smokes him 12 ways from Sunday.

 

 

I wasn't talking about Demandred's opinion, I was actually taking that out of The Strike at Shayol Ghul:

 

"War itself was a "new" discovery, it seems, though one quickly learned, some might even say perfected."

 

If the numbers were even, than Demandred would have fought the battle differently.

 

Also in aMoL chapter 32, Mat praises Demandred noting that only a true military genius could have put Bryne's army in such a bad situation without it looking like a bad situation. And Demandred did that with all the Light's armies at once. Also recall that while Demandred had greater numbers, a lot of them were trollocs who can not go through gateways. And the Light might also have had more channelers when you add up the Aes Sedai, Damane, and Asha'man, even though there should have been far more. And lastly the good thing about being the good guys is that you have people Egwene who are willing to blow themselves up in order to take out 100s of enemy channelers. I don't you'll find anyone will to do that in the shadow's army.

 

Oh, and there's also the Horn of Valere.

 

I forget, but I wouldn't be suprised if Mat and Demandred praised eachother's abilities numerous times during the battle.

Edited by Master Ablar
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Ishamael had his cords cut in the Eye of The World.

 

The Cords no longer mattered after the end of Book 9.

Not to mention, they had little effect or were even needed in Ishy's case as he used the True Power exclusively anyway.

 

 

While Demandred had his knowledge from books, Mat got his knowledge from memories........ This battle reminds me of another real world battle...... the Battle of Waterloo. Napolean should have won his battle and didn't. Thakan' dar, however,  reminds me of the Dunkirk and Gallipoli debacles. The first shows the overwhelming arrogance of the enemy despite their brilliance, while the other shows what happens when your side finds themselves in awful circumstances. Coming from one half of the Anzac tradition, it is actually quite possible a battle can turn out this way. 

 

Demandred did plenty of fighting during the War of Power, and it's said that they perfected the art of warfare. As for the comparison with Waterloo, I don't really agree. At very best, all things considered, the odds were even at Waterloo, hardly the case at the Last Battle. While Napoleon could certainly be arrogant I don't think Waterloo is a very good example of it. Varro showed arrogance at Cannae and underestimated Hannibal. And at Austerlitz the allied commanders were also overconfident..

 

Beyond that, I don't think that Demandred understimated Mat either. Afterall recall that he believed he was fighting Lews Therin Telamon, and while Demandred believed himself the better general, he was also perfectly willing to admit LTT's own brilliance. The battle only truly swung in Mat's favor after Demandred's death. Even Egwene's sacrifice wasn't enough to give Mat the advantage. Both Gawayn and Lan saw it true: taking out Demandred was key to winning the battle.

 

 

Demandred only believes that they/he had perfected the art of War. Mat was his superior in every sense of the word. We're taking about Demandred's 10 years of commanding to Mat's 1500+ years of seeing battle from every angle possible. It really is no contest.

It was only Demandred's overwhelming numbers that even allowed him to compete with Mat.

Given an even playing field and Mat smokes him 12 ways from Sunday.

 

 

I wasn't talking about Demandred's opinion, I was actually taking that out of The Strike at Shayol Ghul:

 

"War itself was a "new" discovery, it seems, though one quickly learned, some might even say perfected."

 

If the numbers were even, than Demandred would have fought the battle differently.

 

Also in aMoL chapter 32, Mat praises Demandred noting that only a true military genius could have put Bryne's army in such a bad situation without it looking like a bad situation. And Demandred did that with all the Light's armies at once. Also recall that while Demandred had greater numbers, a lot of them were trollocs who can not go through gateways. And the Light might also have had more channelers when you add up the Aes Sedai, Damane, and Asha'man, even though there should have been far more. And lastly the good thing about being the good guys is that you have people Egwene who are willing to blow themselves up in order to take out 100s of enemy channelers. I don't you'll find anyone will to do that in the shadow's army.

 

Oh, and there's also the Horn of Valere.

 

I forget, but I wouldn't be suprised if Mat and Demandred praised eachother's abilities numerous times during the battle.

 

 

 

First off...Mat wasn't praising Demandred in Chapter 32, he was praising Bryne. Mat didn't know he was under compulsion at the time. Mat thought Bryne was a Dark Friend and the compulsion directing Bryne to lose subtlety wasn't that specific, it couldn't have been. Graendal was the one doing it after all. Much more likely that Demandred would give her certain end goals for Bryne to meet and she would instill that in Bryne. It was still up to Bryne to come up with the way of accomplishing it. 

 

As far as what Mat actually did...

The River, both setting up a defense for when the river was damned (he knew it was coming) and the release of it after.

Faking the destruction of the Dragons and then firing them through gateways

Faking the Seanchan withdrawal

Even when he pulled his forces off the high ground right off the bat, that was strategy pure and simple. Think about it. As long as Mat holds the high ground, Demandred was going to pound them with everything he had till he got it. It would have been a bloody mess that Mat's forces couldn't afford while Demandred's could. By Mat withdrawing off it right away, he basically cut off a large portion of Deamndred's army to sit up there and hold it. They weren't going to just give it up and start chasing Mat's forces around now.

 

He held Demandred back despite being grossly outnumbered. He was 2 steps ahead of Demandred on every front throughout the battle.

Mat was not surprised by a single thing Demandred did and what's more, he already had counters in place for everything he did do.

 

Mat summed it up when he told Elayne. He was playing cards now, not dice. He knew he already held the weaker hand but he had to make it look even weaker still so that when he went all in, it would be more than Demandred would be expecting.

As in the return of the river, the return of the Seanchan, the return of the Dragons and most importantly, the blowing of the Horn.

Mat was under no illusions, he said right from the start that they would STILL  need something extra to win, something to make that big all in mean anything. They were going to lose otherwise and there was nothing he could do about it, HE KNEW THAT!

 

I don't care how much Demandred or the people in the AoL's think that they "perfected" the art of war. Mat was better, Mat was much, much more experienced.

One couldn't even make an overwhelming argument that Demandred was a better General than any of the remaining Great Captians and Mat leaves them all in his dust.

 

Thousands of men's memories and experiences from thousands of battles over more than a thousand years vs one man's memories and one man's experiences over a much, much, much shorter time.

Again, it really is no contest.

Edited by Finnssss
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First off...Mat wasn't praising Demandred in Chapter 32, he was praising Bryne. Mat didn't know he was under compulsion at the time. Mat thought Bryne was a Dark Friend and the compulsion directing Bryne to lose subtlety wasn't that specific, it couldn't have been. Graendal was the one doing it after all. Much more likely that Demandred would give her certain end goals for Bryne to meet and she would instill that in Bryne. It was still up to Bryne to come up with the way of accomplishing it. 

 

I don't care how much Demandred or the people in the AoL's think that they "perfected" the art of war. Mat was better, Mat was much, much more experienced.

One couldn't even make an overwhelming argument that Demandred was a better General than any of the remaining Great Captians and Mat leaves them all in his dust.

 

Thousands of men's memories and experiences from thousands of battles over more than a thousand years vs one man's memories and one man's experiences over a much, much, much shorter time.

 

He was praising whoever laid out Bryne's trap, which certainly wasn't Bryne since he was under compulsion from Graendal. And since Graendal was hardly a military genius it could only have been Demandred. And you're quite wrong. Mat did know that Bryne was under compulsion. From just a few pages later in the chapter:

 

"So it was really compulsion?" Mat asked. Egwene had sent him word.

 

Why would Graendal be incapable of laying precise compulsion on Bryne and the rest of the Great Captains? If only vague instructions were given, Demandred would only know where to strike once Bryne had made the mistake. And it might not be ideal depending on the situation. Far better to know precisely where he would need to strike to do the most damage beforehand.

 

The Strike at Shayol Ghul, where it said that warfare was possibly perfected, was written by a 3rd Age historian, not someone from the Age of Legends. Maybe that person was wrong, but there's hardly any proof of that.

 

And it might have been a much, much shorter time but it was a time of total warfare on a monumental scale. Who knows how many battles were fought in those 10 years. And for all of Mat's memories, he never had any that dealt with channelers, unlike Demandred.

 

"The man leading the Shadow was good. Very good. It's Demandred, Mat thought"

 

"Together, Mat and Demandred were composing a grand painting? Each responded to the other's moves with subtle care."

 

"But blood and bloody ashes, he's strong. Without a gamble we're dead."

 

"Demandred knew how to gamble. Mat could sense it through the movements of troops. Mat was playing against one of the best who had ever lived."

 

"Demandred was clever. He had not gone for Mat's bait at the ford , where he had positioned a smaller army"

 

"Luck, Mat thought. We'll need more than a little of you today. Don't abandon me now."

 

 

All of that from Mat's point of view. You make it sound as if the battle was a succession of mistakes on Demandred's part and brilliant moves on Mat's. But that's simply not the case. They met each other blow for blow, and Mat had to hold as long as possible until an oppurtinity finally presented itself. It was a huge gamble, and it payed off, yes because of Mat's brilliance, but also thanks to quite a bit of luck, and especially thanks to Egwene and obviously Lan's actions. With Demandred still alive would the armies of the shadow routed so quickly? Demandred never fell for Mat's traps after all. Both Gawayn, Logain, and Lan saw it true: killing Demandred was key to winning the battle, and it's only once he fell that the tide turned. And there's also the horn of valere which Mat didn't have at the beginning of the battle, and ultimately never did. Luckily though it ended up in the hands of Olver.

 

Demandred may have had a definite numerical advantage, but Mat had advantages of his own.

Edited by Master Ablar
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First off...Mat wasn't praising Demandred in Chapter 32, he was praising Bryne. Mat didn't know he was under compulsion at the time. Mat thought Bryne was a Dark Friend and the compulsion directing Bryne to lose subtlety wasn't that specific, it couldn't have been. Graendal was the one doing it after all. Much more likely that Demandred would give her certain end goals for Bryne to meet and she would instill that in Bryne. It was still up to Bryne to come up with the way of accomplishing it. 

 

I don't care how much Demandred or the people in the AoL's think that they "perfected" the art of war. Mat was better, Mat was much, much more experienced.

One couldn't even make an overwhelming argument that Demandred was a better General than any of the remaining Great Captians and Mat leaves them all in his dust.

 

Thousands of men's memories and experiences from thousands of battles over more than a thousand years vs one man's memories and one man's experiences over a much, much, much shorter time.

 

He was praising whoever laid out Bryne's trap, which certainly wasn't Bryne since he was under compulsion from Graendal. And since Graendal was hardly a military genius it could only have been Demandred. And you're quite wrong. Mat did know that Bryne was under compulsion. From just a few pages later in the chapter:

 

"So it was really compulsion?" Mat asked. Egwene had sent him word.

 

Why would Graendal be incapable of laying precise compulsion on Bryne and the rest of the Great Captains? If only vague instructions were given, Demandred would only know where to strike once Bryne had made the mistake. And it might not be ideal depending on the situation. Far better to know precisely where he would need to strike to do the most damage beforehand.

 

The Strike at Shayol Ghul, where it said that warfare was possibly perfected, was written by a 3rd Age historian, not someone from the Age of Legends. Maybe that person was wrong, but there's hardly any proof of that.

 

And it might have been a much, much shorter time but it was a time of total warfare on a monumental scale. Who knows how many battles were fought in those 10 years. And for all of Mat's memories, he never had any that dealt with channelers, unlike Demandred.

 

"The man leading the Shadow was good. Very good. It's Demandred, Mat thought"

 

"Together, Mat and Demandred were composing a grand painting? Each responded to the other's moves with subtle care."

 

"But blood and bloody ashes, he's strong. Without a gamble we're dead."

 

"Demandred knew how to gamble. Mat could sense it through the movements of troops. Mat was playing against one of the best who had ever lived."

 

"Demandred was clever. He had not gone for Mat's bait at the ford , where he had positioned a smaller army"

 

"Luck, Mat thought. We'll need more than a little of you today. Don't abandon me now."

 

 

All of that from Mat's point of view. You make it sound as if the battle was a succession of mistakes on Demandred's part and brilliant moves on Mat's. But that's simply not the case. They met each other blow for blow, and Mat had to hold as long as possible until an oppurtinity finally presented itself. It was a huge gamble, and it payed off, yes because of Mat's brilliance, but also thanks to quite a bit of luck, and especially thanks to Egwene and obviously Lan's actions. With Demandred still alive would the armies of the shadow routed so quickly? Demandred never fell for Mat's traps after all. Both Gawayn, Logain, and Lan saw it true: killing Demandred was key to winning the battle, and it's only once he fell that the tide turned. And there's also the horn of valere which Mat didn't have at the beginning of the battle, and ultimately never did. Luckily though it ended up in the hands of Olver.

 

Demandred may have had a definite numerical advantage, but Mat had advantages of his own.

 

 

We can argue over exactly how specific Graendal's compulsion was on Bryne till we're blue in the face. Until it's spelled out from a signing report I'll stick to my interpretation, you stick to yours.

 

As far as whether Demandred made any mistakes, that's for debate but remember this...his forces were EXACTLY where Mat wanted/maneuvered them to be when the times came.

End of story! 

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Is Lan still suffering from the Warder-rage brought on by Moiraine's 'death'?  Is this something that's ever fully curable, or just something that you can get under control?  He still seemed pretty intent on getting himself killed fighting the Shadow during TGS and through some of AMoL.  Does the fact that Moiraine is actually alive remove the effect, or is something beyond Lan's control, i.e. even though he knows Moiraine is alive, the effect of the broken bond doesn't go away.  And more generally, what about all the Warders whose Aes Sedai died during the LB?  Who do they go off to fight now that the Shadow is dead?

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Is Lan still suffering from the Warder-rage brought on by Moiraine's 'death'?  Is this something that's ever fully curable, or just something that you can get under control?  He still seemed pretty intent on getting himself killed fighting the Shadow during TGS and through some of AMoL.  Does the fact that Moiraine is actually alive remove the effect, or is something beyond Lan's control, i.e. even though he knows Moiraine is alive, the effect of the broken bond doesn't go away.  And more generally, what about all the Warders whose Aes Sedai died during the LB?  Who do they go off to fight now that the Shadow is dead?

The Warder rage is triggered by the breaking of the bond - Warders can suffer the effect if the AS is severed, and  knowing the AS is alive does nothing to alleviate the effect. Moiraine being back did not reform the broken bond, and thus did nothing to diminish the effects of the rage on Lan. It is possible for a Warder to get the effects under control. As for Warders whose AS die, presumably they will do what they did before - AS weren't always killed by the Shadow, and if the Shadow isn't immediately to hand it wasn't what they were lashing out at anyway. They'll either drop dead or go on a rampage from where they were when she died, or will be brought under control, as Lan was. That is, unless the AS discontinue the practice of bonding Warders, or they learn to make adjustments to the bond to avoid the negative consequences of their deaths on the Warder.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Why didn't Rand know that Alanna was lying, mortally wounded, about 10 m from him in SG?  Nynaeve was able to feel Lan receiveing a similar (potentially) mortal wound from Demandred at the FoM so being at SG can't fog the bond that much.

 

I have just reread PoD and there is a scene where Cadsuane explains to Sorilea that if Alanna died, Rand would die too, so both the Aiel and the AS are aware that Alanna is a major vulnerability for Rand.  Why did no one monitor/guard her more carefully?  And why did no one seem to think that maybe Aviendha and Elayne shouldn't be directly in the line of fire.  I think theoretically Min was a little safer as a messenger.  It seems a bit mad to have Aviendha in the thick of one of the worst battlefields of the LB if they know her death would cause Rand to die and essentially the DO to win.  Or does the strange bond Elayne used on the four of them not have the same effects in terms of a warder-rage?

Edited by Rhienne
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Why didn't Rand know that Alanna was lying, mortally wounded, about 10 m from him in SG?  Nynaeve was able to feel Lan receiveing a similar (potentially) mortal wound from Demandred at the FoM so being at SG can't fog the bond that much.

 

 

No idea.

 

 

I have just reread PoD and there is a scene where Cadsuane explains to Sorilea that if Alanna died, Rand would die too, so both the Aiel and the AS are aware that Alanna is a major vulnerability for Rand.  Why did no one monitor/guard her more carefully?  

 

Because they messed up. Both Nyneave and Cadsuane, mention that the room should have been better guarded in ToM.

 

And why did no one seem to think that maybe Aviendha and Elayne shouldn't be directly in the line of fire.  I think theoretically Min was a little safer as a messenger.  It seems a bit mad to have Aviendha in the thick of one of the worst battlefields of the LB if they know her death would cause Rand to die and essentially the DO to win.  Or does the strange bond Elayne used on the four of them not have the same effects in terms of a warder-rage?

 

That's what I thought too. Way to big a risk to take. No idea for your last question though.

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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but the breaking of a bond (through death of an AS) essentially sends a "surge" of her final emotions, and the pain of her death (or maybe the pain he feels is the bond itself breaking?). Imagine a rubber band tied very tightly so its taut between two posts. cut the rubber band in the middle and the pieces will snap back - whiplash back to either end. I picture that as what happens to the warder - the bond "whiplashes" back and overwhelms him with grief. Being a man, he goes into a rage in an attempt to avenge his AS, as it gives him a very reckless edge to his abilities. His rage and grief are typically so powerful, that he wants to end it any way possible - usually by going into kamikaze mode: kill the enemy, die with honor.

Warder Rage is a choice made by someone desperate to end the pain in any way possible.

A warder with a good deal more self-control than the average warder could likely resist falling into the typical rage. Rand, who is bonded to 4 women, would likely be able to withstand the loss of one AS (however painful) with the support of the other three. 

 

The battle with the DO was more a battle of wills and philosophy; Rand would not - and could not - drop dead just because his AS does.

 

When Lan comes to the Salidar AS, one of the greens (Myrelle?) suggests that losing an AS can damage the mind of the warder (some form of Bonding PTSD?) and part of helping them survive is to give them something to live for.

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