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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Barid Bel Medar

Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)

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Exactly like the one in the General thread. 

 

For simple questions that you don't want to scroll through hundreds of posts to find and don't need a topic dedicated to them. Get simple, straight forward answers. 

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Oh oh I get to be the first to ask. Ok here is a question though perhaps not a simple one. Why can Rand not channel after the bodyswap, I thought channeling followed the soul and Rand's soul can channel like nobody's business, how come he can no longer do so at the end of the book, and also how come he have none of the negative mental effects of those who have lost the ability to channel? He is just relieved not to have the ability any more and that is it. The only explanation I have for this is that he do not need the ability any longer as he have gotten the ability to affect the pattern directly, like what he do with his pipe, he no longer need to draw on the Power and weave or any of those trappings, he can just affect the pattern with his will and wishes without the go between, like a programmer who suddenly get the ability to control compute code directly with his mind so he no longer have any need of his computer.

 

The other possible explanation I guess is that it was a gift from the Creator, that he knew that all Rand wanted was to wander around and live a simple life and that he did not want to have the ability to channel, and so he took it away from him harmlessly, I guess the Creator being a God could do that.

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Ha, not quite a simple question. 

 

Simple answer: It is intentionally unclear - it's open for interpretation. It is a good question, I would take it to the Rand arc thread for some more in depth discussion on it. 

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I tried but no one answered it there so I asked here instead. I sort of like that it is vague to it is like the ending of Battlestar Galactica (the new series) I was mad as hell the first time I saw it that we never got to know exactly what Starbuck was and how it all fit together but then when I had gotten some time to think about it I really think the end of the series was much better for the vagueness, if they had gone right out and said no she is an angel or oh she is a Cylon then that would have been a flatter ending than leaving it vague. I feel about the same about Rand's final scene in Wheel of Time, if all information had been given sure that would have solved the mystery but it would have been a less powerful ending. Well I like it except I get the iffies from people loosing their ability to channel.

 

I like to think Rand had become something more, someone able to affect the pattern directly. I am going to plop my Mage the Ascension RPG group down with the book as as possible and say lookie here, this is great inspiration for how a mage turning Oracle world work. Off course this little comment will make no sense if you have not actually played Mage. :P

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I tried but no one answered it there so I asked here instead. I sort of like that it is vague to it is like the ending of Battlestar Galactica (the new series) I was mad as hell the first time I saw it that we never got to know exactly what Starbuck was and how it all fit together but then when I had gotten some time to think about it I really think the end of the series was much better for the vagueness, if they had gone right out and said no she is an angel or oh she is a Cylon then that would have been a flatter ending than leaving it vague. I feel about the same about Rand's final scene in Wheel of Time, if all information had been given sure that would have solved the mystery but it would have been a less powerful ending. Well I like it except I get the iffies from people loosing their ability to channel.

 

I like to think Rand had become something more, someone able to affect the pattern directly. I am going to plop my Mage the Ascension RPG group down with the book as as possible and say lookie here, this is great inspiration for how a mage turning Oracle world work. Off course this little comment will make no sense if you have not actually played Mage. :P

 

Good point about an Oracle from MtA. I've played that game lots. My favorite tradition was the Akashic Brotherhood. 

 

But, I do agree that even though Rand cannot channel any more, and he senses that he is no longer ta`veren... I still believe that he has the ability to manipulate the pattern somewhat.

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Mage the Ascension is my favorite RPG game, my favorite Tradition is the Verbena. But yeah the first thing I thought when I read that scene with Rand was oh he just became an Oracle, as part of that process is giving up on Sphere magick and seeing that one can affect the tapestry directly. That being said the end scene was not the only part of the book that made me think of Mage, seriously Androl reminds me of about every Virtual Adept character who have ever been a part of my gaming group, I wonder if Sanderson have ever played Mage the Ascension, but then there have always been some similarities here and there between WoT and Mage, that is how me and my boyfriend of 14 years got together, I was a huge fan of Mage and he a huge fan of WoT and we started discussing it and found quite a few similarities in the magick system here and there. :D

 

Anyway back to the topic at hand. In many ways Rand is a Deity, he is the chosen one of the Creator and he is tied to the land, so it could be that he have just become more like the Creator, that he can create and change at will without really needing any method or magick system to do it. It is also possible that when he completed his task that the part of his soul witch is the Dragon went dormant, since it was not needed anymore, and that his channeling abilities are part of that aspect of his soul so when it went dormant, so did his ability to channel as well.

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Hi there Hagazussa, i don't claim to be any kind of expert but Rand describes how the amount of power he channels in the repairing of the bore will burn him out (it's right as he is doing it).

 

This should be a factor affecting his soul's thread as it manifest in this 'birthing'. When he is reborn he should be capable of channaling again.

 

I was surprised at first that he was relieved not to be able to channal. The loss of access to the power is decribed as an absence, or the most favourite of things taken away, it obsorbes the user, Rand in his enlightened state is beyond mourning such loss (IMHO).

 

More importantly it seems the loss of the power represents proof to Rand that the repair worked as he reaches for the True Power to be sure.

 

There was a ton of foreshadowing for Rand's impossible pipe. 

 

From Ishmael's early use of dreamshards, Egwene's re-invention of traveling after her method of entering TaR in the flesh, through to her tav'a'ren defying will.

 

The descriptions of Perrin's evolving powers to mat's taking advantage of the patterns' loopholes in fate.

 

Even the Aiel description of life as a dream prepares us for the idea that a suficiantely enlightened individual might be able to manipulate reality (within exceptable perameters). It's about choice, right?

 

Who could be more enlightened than the man who literally held the whole of creation- at least that moment - in his mind.

 

Manipulation of reality through an understanding(better word?) of self (the one-ness) and the fundemental powers of the universe (he welded 'pure' one power) seems to be the basic 'fantastical' premise the wheel of time 'world' is built on.

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I can not find the place where Rand think he will burn himself out repairing the bore but it would not surprise me if he did, the problem is that he do not react in any way, shape or form like someone who have been burned out and while it could be off course that either he was to relieved to just have the responsibility off his shoulders to worry about it right then and there, the relief he react with is not indicative that he have been burned out. Also with other characters who have been severed in one way or the other it is described how they not only have a feeling of loss, but they have like a hole in their mind, there is no description of this here, just a sense of relief, in many ways Rand is like if he had never been able to channel at all.

 

To me it seams more like the reaches to the True Source to to me sure that his repairs to the bore worked but more to be sure that the ability was truly gone. Yes sure on the surface his condition say that he have been burned out, he can not feel anything, but his reaction do not indicate this and while it might be that he is just enlightened, to me, I might be grasping at straws here but I am sort of hoping for more than just Rand being beurned out but being to enlightened to let the depression that follows affect him.

Edited by Hagazussa

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But did she use balefire and if not why not bring him back

what!?! killing someone with balefire does not bring them back to life, what would the point of that be.  If person "A" kills person "B", then person "A" gets killed by balefire then "B" might come back to life, well i sould say "B" was never killed.

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@jwillis

 

They were asking if Asmodean wasn't killed with balefire why the DO didn't bring him back. Jordan said it had to do with the manner and place of ha death.

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@jwillis

 

They were asking if Asmodean wasn't killed with balefire why the DO didn't bring him back. Jordan said it had to do with the manner and place of ha death.

 

The best I can come up with related to the manner and place of his death involves Rhavin's death as well.  Asmodean died from Rhavin's trap (at the same time Mat died), but he was brought back to life by the balefiring of Rhavin.  A short while later he was balefired again.  I think the reversal of the first death using balefire only to be balefired to death created something wonky in the Pattern.

 

The "place of his death" doesn't have to do with the geographic location in Randland or in the palace, but more to do with the location in the Pattern as if it messed up the time-space continuum.

 

Just my theory.

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I'd say that the reason Rand seems relieved at having lost the Power is that he always saw it as a burden, and not a blessing. I can't remember at any point during the series that Rand likes having the Power. He uses it because he has to, because he needs to use it to accomplish the things that he has to do.

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What happened to all the female Trollocs after the Last Battle?

 

Apparently, only the males fought in the armies. Assuming that half of Trollocs are female, there is still a Trolloc Horde at least as large as that assembled at the Last Battle. Is that going to be a problem?

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I'd say that the reason Rand seems relieved at having lost the Power

is that he always saw it as a burden, and not a blessing. I can't

remember at any point during the series that Rand likes having the

Power. He uses it because he has to, because he needs to use it to

accomplish the things that he has to do.

 

Yeah but about all male channelers in the history of the series would have felt the same, they would have seen the One Power as a burden and a curse as their ability would either drive them mad or kill them in a few years, it is not like most male channelers wanted to learn to channel, but it is still extremely addictive and hardly any of them survived loosing their ability. Feeling that the One Power is a burden is not the same as not suffering from it's loss.

 

Apparently, only the males fought in the armies. Assuming that half

of Trollocs are female, there is still a Trolloc Horde at least as large

as that assembled at the Last Battle. Is that going to be a problem?

 

If I do not remember it completely wrong female trollocs are non combatants, they are just breeding machines who live up in the Blight and a few of their hidy holes and mate an have offspring. I do not think they would become a horde even if they survived, they are just to different from the males of the species, off course if many of those females where pregnant that could off course eventually take them off the endangered species list.

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Are we even sure the Trollocs and other Shadowspawn can survive all that long without the lingering touch of the Dark One?  After all, the True Power was instrumental in their creation, and that's now shut out.  I could see a case for Trollocs, and other Shadowspawn that can independently breed, surviving, but what about Fades?  They were always described as "throwbacks" to the human stock used in creating the Trollocs, and without the presence of the True Power, they may not be viable offspring, they are, after all, incapable of breeding on their own.

 

In any event, Shadowspawn are only an existential threat to humanity if there's some kind of command structure behind them.  Fades are good at leading Trollocs on the battlefield, but even they usually require the presence of a Dreadlord or Forsaken to unify and coordinate their efforts.  Trollocs alone are easy to beat.  In the 4th Age, they lack that command structure, and remaining Light Side forces will probably be dedicated for a while to rooting them out and eliminating them, but that's gonna be a much easier task without generals or Dreadlords to direct the Shadowspawn.

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two questions:

 

1.  Whats the difference between a dreadlord and a black ajah aes sedai or DF Ashaman?

 

2.  Is there any reason why Jeaine Caide didnt just blast Thom into neverland or any of those other BA that tried to get past him?  Why try sneak past an old man when you can just balefire his old a$$?

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1.  From Encyclopedia WoT (and the glossary of the books):

 

Dreadlord - "Those men and women who, able to channel the One Power, went over to the Shadow during the Trolloc Wars, acting as commanders of the Trolloc forces."

 

I think in aMoL it was used as a more generic term for the Dark-side channelers once the fighting started.

 

2.  There was a tremendous amount of power being weilded within site of Thom by Moraine, Nyneave, and Rand.  By channeling to kill Thom, it could have tipped off those inside.

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2.  There was a tremendous amount of power being weilded within site of

Thom by Moraine, Nyneave, and Rand.  By channeling to kill Thom, it

could have tipped off those inside.

I'm not 100% sure about this.  Weren't the windfinders already channeling near the path to Shayol Ghul?  Plus probably some other Wise Ones not too far off, especially as the battle pulled back towards the slopes of Shayol Ghul.  Plus Nynaeve and Moiraine couldn't do anything with the power while Rand had control, and Rand couldn't do anything while locked in his battle, so it wouldn't really have mattered if they the women had sensed channeling.

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1.  From Encyclopedia WoT (and the glossary of the books):

 

Dreadlord - "Those men and women who, able to channel the One Power, went over to the Shadow during the Trolloc Wars, acting as commanders of the Trolloc forces."

 

I think in aMoL it was used as a more generic term for the Dark-side channelers once the fighting started.

 

2.  There was a tremendous amount of power being weilded within site of Thom by Moraine, Nyneave, and Rand.  By channeling to kill Thom, it could have tipped off those inside.

Note that when Amys asks Sarene if there is a difference between Dreadlords and BA (over bodies of Duhara and Falion) she replies "of course". This sounded to me like the difference is somehow important at least to AS.

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After his awakening at Dragonmount, Rand was no longer just your regular channeler (beyond LTT 1.0).  As the DR he was able to affect the Pattern, trees, apples  (one with the land), spot DF's, drive them mad, protection against the taint...fending off at least a circle of 13...

 

Lighting the pipe, takes it one step forward, bending reality. 

 

I think Rand burned out, he was channeling more saidin than at the Cleansing (according to Logain's PoV) and Callandor has no buffer.

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