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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Hyronimus

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  1. I'm going on what's been said before on this, but I'm pretty sure it is a part of the powers Mordeth obtained. Fain was a man who had "side stepped the pattern" and Mat's luck seems to take advantage of fate. It's possible it'll be toned down if he isn't Tav'aren any more. edited to add Just a thought to elaborate on the side stepping of fate; but if the taint on the dagger damaged his thread in the pattern as evidenced by the loss of memories then it's possible the wheel has less of a hold on him (it can't even recruit him to the horn, the ultimate expression of the pattern's hold on a life thread). It doesn't bother the pattern if he wins more at dice or things go his way when there is a chance each way as this is built in to the weaving, but I guess bigger, tav'eren level things like drawing Verin may be beyond him. This is harder to prove, but it's the vibe I get you know
  2. @ Hagazussa (bit late) P 890 Orbit ed As the use of the power didn't kill him, the ability was burned out (a nice contrast to the creation of DM). Note that being burned out more like being in a stedding, there is no sense of the power at all, only the memory of its use. Being severed is more painful as the source is sensed just out of reach. I guess it might have been nice to have a more explicit sentence like "strangely he did not feel the loss" but oh well.
  3. Hi there Hagazussa, i don't claim to be any kind of expert but Rand describes how the amount of power he channels in the repairing of the bore will burn him out (it's right as he is doing it). This should be a factor affecting his soul's thread as it manifest in this 'birthing'. When he is reborn he should be capable of channaling again. I was surprised at first that he was relieved not to be able to channal. The loss of access to the power is decribed as an absence, or the most favourite of things taken away, it obsorbes the user, Rand in his enlightened state is beyond mourning such loss (IMHO). More importantly it seems the loss of the power represents proof to Rand that the repair worked as he reaches for the True Power to be sure. There was a ton of foreshadowing for Rand's impossible pipe. From Ishmael's early use of dreamshards, Egwene's re-invention of traveling after her method of entering TaR in the flesh, through to her tav'a'ren defying will. The descriptions of Perrin's evolving powers to mat's taking advantage of the patterns' loopholes in fate. Even the Aiel description of life as a dream prepares us for the idea that a suficiantely enlightened individual might be able to manipulate reality (within exceptable perameters). It's about choice, right? Who could be more enlightened than the man who literally held the whole of creation- at least that moment - in his mind. Manipulation of reality through an understanding(better word?) of self (the one-ness) and the fundemental powers of the universe (he welded 'pure' one power) seems to be the basic 'fantastical' premise the wheel of time 'world' is built on.
  4. Nakomi is Alivia That's right, and it makes perfect sense. She knows Rand lives in Moridin being the one who helped him leave the cave and swap bodies thus fullfillinf the prophecy that she would help him die. As a damane taken from the seanchan and rehabilitated it makes sense that she would both wear Aiel clothes (not those of a wise one of course) and be schooled in their traditions. She is incredibly old and one would assume possessing incredible wisdom, with a personal understanding of the structure/purpose dominating ones life being overturned and finding a new purpose. Her strenght in the power would make learning new and inovative weaves believable as this is a common trait with those of great strength in the power. There is no reason she wouldn't be aware of the wise ones traditions in going through the glass collums, and very likely went through herself meeting Avi on the way out. nope, no reason why this can't be at all. p.s. would have liked to start a new thread for this in aid of some focus
  5. hey ho I only got one solid prediction right; Bergitte dies. There was really no way she could live, hell she wasn't even born! She had to return to the wheel. I guessed Bashere and his wife would both die but that was pure guessing and Mat taking on Demendred on the battle field wasn't a stretch.
  6. she's the only character that hates Tuon as much as I do Even Rand caved on the Damene issue more then i would like. Egwene fulfilled the real need I had for for someone to truely refute Tuons self assumed right.
  7. Wellity wellity.... The idea of the DO 'as the shadow on mens' minds seems a return to the idea of the DO in the first book. Thinking about it, Mordeth possibly represented The DO being found in the world rather then directly at a bore. Still i don't know what to think of the whole world with out a DO with out a reread. Rand had to die though didn't he. I mean the wholoe dragon peace for one thing, was a price for his life (i liked seeing the sea folk being impressed by the 'contract') I don't think the world could handle a living dragon. But i can't like the hero losing his own body even if I see the sense of it. It was interesting that Rand was relieved he couldn't channel, as if burning himself out was proof of the power he had expended locking away the DO, was he worried that being able to channel would have allowed the DO a link? I like the 'new' power I'm guessing having had that perspective of the pattern as he battled the DO isn't something that goes away, in a real sense, everyone survives in Rand Al'thor's dream world he held the possible threads of the world in his mind not creating but his visualising allowed it to be.
  8. Hi just general comments... After the first few chapters were I felt we were reading some of egwene's emotions that i thought we had delt with before. Then things got cranking and I enjoyed the battle scenes. I was sad she died, I really saw her (as I believe someone commented) as part of the 4th age. As respectable as her exit was her highest point was getting Tuon to blink on the damane issue(if only a little, man that tuon makes me grind my teath in these conversations) pity that wand is lost though...
  9. hi all I liked how surprised I was by the Lanfear and Perrin scenes, but feel like i need to do a reread for the foreshadowing, the prophesy right? I liked perrins arc in general, the new power were very cool, I was waiting for the hammer to has some perticuler use (other than beating down darkhounds though that was cool) however I'm thinking it was step and tool for focusing his powers and so served its purpose. On the evils of the flesh If you consider that death in the dream was forever (for a while i was confused and though that perrin was in real danger of being stuck in Tar permanently, a creature of the dream alone) this is blasphemy so far as followers of the light are concerned because their faith is based on salvation through rebirth. editted to add I appreciate how Perrin arc reflected and informed rand's struggle, in the sense of will power to control reality I was waiting for a three together moment till I realised they always were, forming the focus as they were for holding the pattern together in their respective 'zones' .
  10. Hi there I'm content to consider the three in the boat to be the relationship Rand and his three 'wives' are in. As the saying goes, in the same boat. This is clarified in the books. After some dancing around the issue Avi and Rand define the relationship and Rand accepts rather than beat himself up over it. I like the idea of 'wyld' being the broken wolf, just 'cause it seems kind of need, and we return to the older idea of the midnight towers representing the seanchan. First post, post reading
  11. Here are some thoughts, forgive the repeats. 1.Rand, Perrin, Mat, Egwene and Nyneave will survive. 2a.Nyneave will manage to replicate the DO’s method of resurrection by grabbing Rand’s soul before it is too late though he will probably be returned to his original body (kept fresh somehow). Understanding the Horn of Valere may play some part. 2b. There will be no body swap or ripping from TaR, rather the concepts will inform 2a. 3.The Black Tower (place) will be destroyed. 4.Birgitte will die. 5.Mat will (better!) have a pivotal moment where he hands Demandred his arse on the battle field. 6.Tuon will channel. 7.Positive moves will be made to free the Damane, starting with the wise ones perhaps (the leash may be reserved for criminals for example). 8.The Seanchan and the Sea Folk will ally (bargain) to fight the red sail ships. 9.The Aiel won’t take up the way of the leaf as it was but their new place in the world (something to do with the dragon peace) will turn them from their war-like past. 10.Bashere and his wife will probably die together. 11.Lan’s army will be saved by the Tower’s army or the Boarderlander’s, I’m fifty-fifty on Lan himself. 12. Grendal/hagelslag/the old crone will survive and retreat to Shara. 13. The wheel will continue to turn.
  12. Some threads are essential What remains in the turning of the wheel is a pattern the wheel threads, some of which form the basic shape of the age, and with which it will use other threads to aid the growth of this shape with no particular care (so some change is possible), the certain basic threads, those essential lives that lead to equally essential actions preserve the integrity of creation. The horn is essential This is manifest in the Horn of Valare. The souls bound to it ta’varen, threads to maintain the pattern; are they essential threads or aids to those threads? The how and when of the horn’s construction is less relevant to how threads are bound to it. By what mechanism does the wheel bind souls to be so specifically spun? We hear from Hawkwing in The Great hunt that the wheel adds to their number. It possible that someone like Nyn rather than curing death, will learn the manner of binding a soul to the horn saving Rand’s soul from corruption by the DO snatching him back. To preserve the souls through the ages we can assume the horn survives through the turnings of the wheel. The calling of the heroes at Falme (which kind of seemed over kill to me considering it wasn’t against shadow spawn) was a ‘pattern level event’ and essential moment that had to happen. Mat is essential For this it needed a sounder so Mat must be equally essential, it’s possible to assume his soul is spun out as a horn sounder/hero of the horn/ slash third ta’veren to Rand’s Dragon soul. The DO’s power over the dead The darkone on the verge of breaking out is essential though the nature of the prison and the bore may not be. Interestingly, while he was weak in touching the world he has power over the dead, at least those sworn to him. This suggest to me that in one age at least (called the third age by some) he must have the power to corrupt the souls the pattern threads into the wheel against the pattern itself and this same corruption must become the manner to save the pattern, so Rand’s comment that the taint would lead to the DO’s defeat (in this form at least). The taint on Rand’s soul Rand tainted is essential, ironically the manifestation of the ‘dragon’ soul that will save the world is the one after the Dragon himself. The forsaken I wouldn’t say the forsaken as essential, the fact that they are minor threads in the pattern must motivate their betrayal. I think rather that the number thirteen is significant; souls lost from the patterns control (to a degree), the purpose of their threads twisted (immortality is not in the pattern’s interest). How many pieces are there in that board game again? Some rambling(sorry) food for thought. I’m procrastinating pretty hard.
  13. Nice theory! Thanks for pointing out the possiblities left with the sea folk hope we see some of this come through in MOL. Got me thinking how like the Aiel the seafolk are. two societies still scared by the breaking. Isloationist, completly suspicious of ousiders. Living in a strange and hostil environment that has defined their customs with each other. both have created a place in their societies for their channellers, which they keep hidden from the AS. Mist importatly they have a seperate saviour; the carrmore the caracarn and prophesies to go with it. parrallels that enforce the theory me thinks, or perhapes Rand could have goen to treemalking not the waste in the shadow rising...
  14. Hi all! I've been muling over this topic which has been touch on often; there was a thread which didn't have quite the focus i was thinking of so... Basicly what do you consider essential to this age? By essential I mean what will happen again in the next third age. One thing I have heard is that by the time the 2nd age comes again the Aiel will need to return to the way of the leaf but it seems that the way of the leaf is not what defines the Aiel so much as they are dedicated, for example the travelling people kept the way of the leaf but gave up on their task for the AS. this implies that they Aiel won't return to the way of the leaf but will find a new cause (as has been speculated) Where I got interested was the moment in the prologue where Rand was still considering how the DO might be dealt with...so far we have excepted that the bore must be closed and the prison put in the same place that it was in the 2nd age, but why? One of my favourte theories was that Callador will be the new prison (see all that is can be contained). Not mine unfortunately. My point is there is no reason to think that the prison must be the same in this age that it will be in the 2nd age come again. So what do we suppose in this age is essential? There needs to be a dragon soul. There needs to be two other tav'eren with him. i believe the prophesies are 'essential', so there will be thirteen evil characters operating for the DO, there will be a gambeler, a wolf king with a hammer. Sorry for the lack of detail but this is a pretty open topic, but I think Itwill help speculation on what must happen in the final book if we consider what needs to happen. for this age and the next. Why is my space bar deleting? cheers back with more detail later!
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