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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Thrasymachus

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Everything posted by Thrasymachus

  1. I'm most looking forward to something rather sedate, compared to the epic battles. Verin's confession. I hope the actress for her really nails that part, and makes us both suspect her, and come to love and respect her.
  2. There is deep symbolism, or at least parallels to historical symbolism, that Jordan took great pains to include in these books, though he was often very subtle about it. The numbers (and characteristics) of Forsaken, the number (and characteristics) of Rand's loves, the number of ta'veren operating through the stories, the number of Trolloc bands, the number of Darkhounds packs, the number of ages of the wheel, and many more, all have connections to the legends and numerology of our own histories. The 13 Forsaken specifically have ties to the 13 vices that Jesus warns of in Mark, chapter 7, verses 21-22. The Forsaken that have little page-time, or who contribute nothing to the story itself but to die, don't need to be cut or combined, as that would destroy the underlying symbolism Jordan wanted to include, and worked hard to do so. Rather, that symbolism needs to be more pronounced or explicit in the TV show.
  3. Gotta remember there's a whole lot of scene-setting and elaborate descriptions of things like clothing and hairstyles and expressions. Things that can take pages of the books that can be depicted in literal seconds, or less, of screen-time. In any event, I don't believe they have the scripts for anything past Season 2 yet, and at best Season 2 will finish off the first three books, with some brand new scenes involving Logain and some scenes from New Spring as well, apparently. After that, if they continue, they're gonna need to clean up the diverging timelines quite a bit, at the very least. Having, at any one time, at least three major plotlines running is not too bad, but when one of those plotlines starts running well ahead of the others, things are gonna get confusing.
  4. "Dreadlords" was a name for channellers in service to the Shadow from the time of the Trolloc Wars on. "Chosen" was the name adopted by channellers who went to Shayol Ghul to pledge themselves to the Shadow during and prior to the War of Power, while their enemies on the side of the Light called them "Forsaken." From the period between the Breaking and the Trolloc Wars, the period of the 10 Nations alliance, I don't think darkfriends channellers had any special name. Partly because there would be so few of them, and the few there were, were hardly a united force. They wouldn't have adopted "Chosen" for themselves because they wouldn't want to risk hubristically calling attention to themselves from amongst their peers and put a target on their backs. They also would know they were not Chosen because they lacked the ability to command the fades and Trollocs of the Dark One's forces. They could intimidate them into some form of obedience, or bargain with them, but only the Chosen have the ability to command them, and expect those forces to be obliged to carry out their orders. In the War of Power, more than the 13 we know of had that authority. It's just that those 13 were the most successful at advancement within the ranks of the Dark One's forces. And nobody in the 10 Nations era is going to call them "Forsaken," because by this time, The Forsaken are those 13 sealed away with the Dark One. My theory as to why Ishamael was only partially bound is not that he was closer to the "surface" than Aginor and Balthamel, his body, when we see it, is not decayed or aged to any degree, nor is he a ghost or immaterial, though he can appear as such when he is more fully free. I reckon he tried to escape through Tel'aran'Rhiod, but because access to the World of Dreams is so limited from Shayol Ghul, he only managed to reach a Dreamshard, one that was sealed within the Bore, but as all Dreamshards are, also connected to the World of Dreams.
  5. Project STARGATE was a defense department program that began under the US Army, wound its way through the DIA and ultimately the CIA. Prior to 1991, it had a variety of codenames, GRILL FLAME, CENTER LANE, GONDOLA WISH, and many others. Its purpose was to investigate the use of clairvoyance for intelligence gathering. Needless to say, it was shut down after independent evaluation, that began when the program was transferred to the CIA, showed that it produced no reliable or actionable intel. Many of its operational leaders and other participants claimed that it was working and showing progress, but many of them have also been shown to be frauds or dupes of a program leadership that was happy to falsify, massage and conceal their data in order to preserve their sweet government contractor checks. The Stargate Program you're referring to was a fictional movie based around Ancient Aliens conspiracy theories that were popular in the 90's, that went on to spawn three popular sci-fi TV series. While they have similar names, they're different things entirely. When it comes to works of fiction, every one of them has at least one conceit. Those conceits are what define the particular fiction it is. For the fictional Stargate stories mentioned above, among their conceits are that the Ancient Aliens theory is true, that ancient Egyptian civilization is far older than archeological evidence suggests, and that the aliens were tyrants who ruled humans by posing as their gods, and who seeded ancient human populations around the galaxy to serve as convenient slave labor. For Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, among the conceits of his fiction is the notion that our world, our time, is an Age in the Turning of the Wheel. Not a parallel world very similar to ours, but our world exactly. Jordan has been explicit on that many times. That we have trouble reconciling our world, and all the knowledge we have gained in it, with the notion of cyclical time as presented by Jordan's fiction, doesn't change the fact that such is still a conceit of Jordan's fiction. It simply reveals that such a conceit requires a more loose or charitable suspension of disbelief. Insofar as we want to speculate about things that could happen within that fiction that are not spelled out explicitly in the text, we have to take the conceits of the fiction seriously. Otherwise, we are not speculating about Robert Jordan's fiction, we're speculating about someone else's fiction, a fiction close to and inspired by Jordan's to be sure, but not the Wheel of Time.
  6. I mean, I'm sure that's one of the (likely many) narratives constructed by conspiracy theorists to explain its shutdown. But in my experience, particularly when it comes to things conferring military advantage and that are potentially commercially lucrative, actually working trumps ideology, even religious ideology, every time. It's not like it would be hard to convince them it was a gift from God or a manifestation of the Holy Spirit instead, particularly with the ludicrous power and wealth having actually working remote viewing in their pockets would bring them.
  7. We'll, I think the fact that we know about the existence of things like Project Stargate simply reinforces my point that we know there's no such thing as channelling, or anything else remotely like it. For one thing, the CIA review of Project Stargate in 1995 showed that it never produced actionable intelligence. It found several flaws in the structure of the program that enabled its leadership to claim results that could not be verified or independently evaluated or reproduced. In fact, the head of the program refused to turn over transcripts and data to his CIA reviewers so his interpretations of their findings could be evaluated. This is the program that launched the career of known charlatan Uri Gellar, and a handful of other minor conspiracy-theory celebrities whose main careers now seem to be appearing as guests on Coast-to-Coast Radio, that notorious late-night conspiracy-theory oriented AM talk show. With the resources of the US Army, the DIA, and the CIA behind it, if there really were such a thing as "remote viewing," they would have found something, and they certainly would not have closed the program and declassified it in '95, nor published their comprehensive review of the program three years ago. If it actually worked, they wouldn't have declassified their investigatory program. They would have transformed it into an operations program and given it higher priority as a method of viable intelligence gathering. And more importantly, like all military technology eventually does, they would have found ways to commercialize it. Insurance companies for one would be chomping at the bit to be able to look into someone's house to see if they're doing stuff to increase the risk of fires, or be able to "remote view" past traffic accidents or other accidents to determine liability.
  8. That's the thing, though. They're myths and legends, not known to be real. In fact, I'll go farther and say that Channeling, and any other mythological, apocryphal, or legendary systems of magic, are known to not be real. Even if channelling is extant right now, perhaps hiding away in some forgotten tibetan monetary or promulgated by some hidden Aztec cult, it is, for all intents and purposes, functionally extinct, and has been for as far back as there is recorded history.
  9. Channelling must die out at some point. One of the conceits of the world-building is that our world is a prior Age to the Third Age and Age of Legends. Either the First Age, or an Age prior to that. Since we lack channelling, there must be at least one Age where channelling was unknown, or at least relegated to "myth and legend." How that happens, nobody knows. Likewise, nobody knows how channelling was discovered. Though Jordan might have had some thoughts, afaik, they were never recorded anywhere.
  10. Fades are good, but not good enough to take on multiple trained defenders on the watch for them. And they don't, strictly speaking, pass through shadows, but through the border of shadows. As long as those borders are kept small enough to keep them from passing through, they can't get through.
  11. Eventually, sure. Everything born in the turning of the Wheel eventually dies, to be reborn again when the Wheel comes back around. But that fact doesn't say anything about when that will happen. Aes Sedai will eventually cease to be, as will the ability to channel itself. But there's nothing in the text to suggest that that's imminent, and no more reason to suggest that it's more likely to happen in the Fourth Age than the Fifth, or Sixth. And considerable reason to think that they are more likely to remain the dominant channelling organization, and if anything, grow that dominance in the coming decades, i.e., the foreseeable future, than that they are going to decline. For the latter to happen, something significant would have to happen to turn the tables on them, that we have no foreshadowing, Prophecy or hint of what it would be. I don't know what future Ages are going to look like. I don't know, or even have any educated or speculative guesses as to how the Fourth Age will end. All we can reasonably speculate about is the first ~300 years of the Fourth Age, and only because we know the major players and the historical context in which they're acting. That context and the character of the major players suggests that the White Tower is going to remain the dominant organization of channellers, likely for as long as that foreseeable period. And in the context of your question, it seemed as though you were searching for evidence that the Aes Sedai would fall into an immediate decline following the Last Battle, due to their losses and competition with rival channelling organizations. And if you cherry-pick evidence, noting only their losses, stressing the existence of potential rivals and their historical political unpopularity, you can certainly construct that narrative. But I think if you objectively weigh all the evidence, you'll find that the immediate, foreseeable future for the White Tower is actually pretty rosy.
  12. Why can't you see the Aes Sedai doing that, when led by an Aes Sedai who for her three hundred year career has rarely set foot in Tar Valon, let alone inside the Tower, and supported by Nynaeve, who was a hair's breadth away from throwing away her potential shawl because she saw the Aes Sedai as valuing their membership and status more than their service, and as a result being too removed from the people they are to Serve, and who will be sitting at the top of Aes Sedai hierarchy for at least the next decade or more?
  13. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why someone would want things to turn out differently. The Aes Sedai, including Egwene and Cadsuane, and even Nynaeve at times, are insufferable and arrogant, and would fully deserve a to be extinguished as an institution. But when you look realistically and the state of things following the Last Battle, and you don't overlook the virtues of those whose vices are all too grating and apparent, the scenario where the Aes Sedai are reformed and redeemed looks far more likely than one in which they continue to fumble and fail.
  14. At no point during the Third Age were the Aes Sedai ever as dominant a political power as they were during the Age of Legends. They were not only effectively rulers of the world, they were also the bedrock of civil infrastructure. In the Third Age, they were as much an obstacle or hindrance to be avoided if possible, as they were any kind of aid or genuine leader. And from Hawkwing's time on, they were a failing and falling power. No one needed them, and very few respected them. What influence they had was born out of fear, not appreciation for the benefits they could bring. Ages tend to go in cycles, an Age of war and conflict is followed by an Age of peace and comity. The Fourth Age is not likely to be an Age of subjugation and military dominance such as the Seanchan would bring, following a Third Age full of war and division. And if the Pattern demands a People to fall, the extermination of their whole culture and way of life, the Aes Sedai don't fit that bill. They are not a People or nation. They're an institution made of people from all kinds of different nations and cultures. Avi's vision saw a people gradually abandon and twist their cultural ideals while stubbornly clinging to a way of life that had become incapable of adapting to the new realities of the world, and as a result, slowly dwindled to extinction. Because Aviendha subverted that future for the Aiel, and insofar as the Pattern demands some powerful nation fall prey to that process, there's really only two other cultural possibilities to take the Aiel's place: the Seanchan, and the Sharans. Demandred, in rallying the Sharans to the side of the Shadow, has set the Sharans up not for a gradual degradation of cultural identity and extinction, but for an immediate one. And that leaves the Seanchan, which is fitting, because the Seanchan have always been presented as almost a dark mirror to the Aiel. If the Aiel are no longer to suffer the fate foreseen by Aviendha, then it must be the Seanchan who suffer it instead. Aes Sedai are not going to remain the aloof, arrogant manipulators from far-off Tar Valon that they have become since Hawkwing's time. The Last Battle and the Dragon Reborn have changed them significantly. You've got Cadsuane leading them now, one of the most "activist" sisters in Aes Sedai recent history, following one of the most reformatory and beloved leaders in their entire Third Age history. The Aes Sedai haven't undergone this much change since the Breaking, when they whittled the ajahs down to seven (in the Age of Legends there were dozens) and bound themselves like criminals to try to regain some credibility after their male counterparts broke the world. And they've got Nynaeve in their ranks now, who's going to be at the top of their authority structure for some time, at least until Sharina reaches her full potential. There's no way she'll let the Aes Sedai backslide back into being the passive, arrogant manipulators who've removed themselves from the daily lives of those they are meant to Serve. With Egwene's legacy, Cadsuane's shrewd leadership, and Nynaeve's idealism and forceful personality, combined with the enormous head-start the Aes Sedai have for rebuilding in that pool of Novices, the path for the Aes Sedai to become true Servants of All once again is wide open for them. Of all the extant organizations of channellers, the immediate future is brightest for the White Tower, followed by the Black, then the Aiel, and the Seanchan last of all. The Kin and the Sea Folk don't even figure in. The Kin have no political aspirations and are already basically adjuncts to the White Tower, while Windfinders will have to change the most, likely abandoning the sea, as Travelling and the new rail systems will have, if they haven't already, made cargo transport by sea obsolete. They'll be lost until they figure out what to do with themselves. The Aiel are hampered by only finding new Wise Ones out of the Aiel, who have been absolutely devastated by the Last Battle; only a remnant of a remnant remains. Their pool of potential new recruits and their ability to make more will take generations to recover. The Seanchan are bound by their agreement to release any bound channeller who wishes to be released, excepting captured Sharans, and to not take new ones unless they volunteer. If they honor that, and Tuon and Mat at least very likely will, the Seanchan will have an even harder time recouping their losses, very few are likely to volunteer for 4-800 years of slavery. The Black Tower is the only group that has an immediate future bright enough to rival the Aes Sedai, thanks to Logain's actions in saving the non-combatants in the Last Battle. They'll find recruitment and political tolerance easier than the White Tower will. But they've also been completely devastated by the events preceding and during the Last Battle to an extent far greater than what the White Tower suffered. And they don't have a thousand recruits already in their rolls ready to be trained and moulded. They'll have to go recruiting first. The Aes Sedai have at least that much of a headstart on them. And I reckon the Aes Sedai, led by Cadsuane and informed by Pevara and Nynaeve, will quickly seek out a generous and lasting alliance with the Black Tower. The Guardians will balance the Servants. But both Guardians and Servants will survive and flourish in that new balance.
  15. I disagree that Cadsuane is gonna go hard in trying to drum out "unsuitable" Novices. She's hardly a traditionalist, at least not for the sake of mere tradition. And I tend to think that she's going to keep most, if not all of Egwene's diplomatic accomplishments in place. For one thing, she's pragmatic enough to recognize the immense resource that pool of 1000 recruits is. For another, she's enough like Egwene that she'd see the value in those alliances, after all, her greatest teacher wasn't an Aes Sedai, but a "toothless old wilder" she encountered in her early adventures. And trying to overthrow Egwene's initiatives would likely be unpopular enough to have her unseated, considering Egwene now has near-sainthood status among the Aes Sedai. I think the Fourth Age sees the rise of Aes Sedai as a political power, with the Aiel and Windfinders becoming adjuncts to that power, and likely an alliance of some kind with the Black Tower, especially against the Seanchan. But then, if the Seanchan keep to their end of the bargain, and notions of Seanchan honor suggest they would, they're going to have a very hard time recruiting new damane. For the long term, I think the future of the Seanchan is what we saw happen to the Aiel in Aviendha's dream. By averting that future for the Aiel, the Pattern will demand another civilization to be extinguished, and theirs is the most likely to fit the bill.
  16. It's possible, but you also have to keep in mind that Sevanna was only in a position to "marry into power" because she bullied her way into being a Wise One. She's overly self-confident, deceitful, manipulative and scornful of any attempt to criticize or restrain her. And the Seanchan will break her before she's sold to anybody. It's possible that she could humble herself and withhold a kernel of her willfulness, ambition and conceit, and that would probably be easier for her to do than any Wise One who was leashed. But it's more likely she'd try to play gai'shan for a year and a day (probably badly) and then try to escape and either end up executed, or succeed and a find herself a refugee surrounded by enemies on all sides.
  17. We'll, don't forget though that we aren't taking into account gains either. I doubt there was much time for many Accepted to be raised prior to the Last Battle, or that there were many Accepted to be raised, but there were over a thousand Novices added to the rolls, and very few of them were casualties of the Last Battle as their duties were restricted. The Aes Sedai may be greatly reduced following the Last Battle, but I doubt the Aiel or Seanchan fared much better, though the Seanchan at least may have. But by the terms of their agreement, they're going to have difficulty replacing their casualties and acquiring new "stock." The Black Tower, due to Taim's perfedy, certainly faired worse. As for the Kin, if they keep to the plan of allowing Aes Sedai to retire into them, they won't be out from under Tar Valon's influence. And they won't be taking in wilders and runaways anymore either. With their thousand-plus Novices in their back pocket, the White Tower will be back to relatively full strength in 20-30 years, if not sooner. Nobody else is in a position to bounce back from their Last Battle losses to such a degree.
  18. The Thirteenth Depository has a good write-up about that here: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/dead-captured-and-missing-aes-sedai.html?m=1 They figure about 60% losses in total. I'd probably go a bit higher, as we know that more than half were lost in the Last Battle, and their losses to the Black Ajah were nearly a quarter of their number, while losses to the Black Tower, Dumai's Wells and the Seanchan together probably comprise at least 10%. 70-75% losses from the beginning of the EotW seems high, but when you add 51% to 24%, you're already at 75%. Another 10% and you're looking at 85%.
  19. There are TV equivalents to PoV characters, though. That equivalent is the distinction between "main characters" and "supporting characters." The main distinction between a main character and a supporting character is that supporting character rarely, if ever, get independent screen time. When they do get the camera to themselves, it's usually brief, a few lines of dialog at most, and is usually either an immediate prelude to or aftereffect of a scene involving a main character. If Egeanin is kept intact to do roughly the job she does in the books, giving us a window into the cultural significance of learning that sul'dam can learn to channel for the Seanchan and being a window into the Seanchan culture more generally, then she absolutely needs her independent scenes. The ones where she is the main character of those scenes. But this is a show already replete with main characters. The Emond's Field 5, Elayne, Aviendha, Moiraine, Lan, Faile, Morgase, Galad, Gawyn, Min, Suian, Androl and Pevara, and yes Egeanin, all have some measure of claim to be included among the list of main characters. Obviously, some are much more "main character-y" than others. But every one of them has a large measure of character development and a complex story arc where they are the main character of that arc. And there's simply not enough room for that many "main" characters undergoing that much development all having their own independent stories going on before they become relevant to other main character's stories. Let's just look at what else is going on at that same time that Egeanin is being casually threatened by that Seeker in Tanchico, her first independent scene and really where her story for the audience begins. Elayne and Nynaeve are sailing with the Sea Folk where Elayne is learning Weather-weaving and both are learning to Dreamwalk, trying to avoid Black Sisters in Tel'aran'Rhiod, being advised by Birgitte and stalked by Moghedien. Moiraine, Mat, Rand and Egwene are all off to the Waste, where they all have their own independent things going on, though Moiraine is mostly reduced to a supporting character, the other three are not. Moreover, Aviendha becomes a much more prominent character, though it will take some time for her to become a main character in her own right. Perrin and Faile are in the Two Rivers fighting to save them from Whitecloaks and Trollocs. Suian is getting deposed and fleeing with Min, Leane and Logain to Salidar. That's already a lot of scene-switching going on, between the Waste, Emond's Field, a Sea Folk raker, and Tar Valon and outlying villages, not to mention the changes in focus between the characters in them. There's simply not room to add yet another main character in there, with her own set that she shares with one other character, two if they go ahead and show us Bethamin, all to merely convey what a big deal it is for the Seanchan that sul'dam can learn to channel. And to learn that well before it becomes at all relevant to dealing with the Seanchan themselves. It's too many main characters, with too many jumps between stories, for an info-dump that's too early to be meaningfully retained by the time it becomes relevant. And it's a scene that would have to be substantially re-written anyway, as all the communication to the audience as to what the big deal is and what kind of people the Seanchan are takes place in Egeanin's head.
  20. I didn't say they were unimportant, but that there's a time and place for "humanizing" them, versus leaving them as a looming, mysterious threat. That process of revealing the character of the Seanchan has to be properly paced, so the Seanchan can play their appropriate role in the story. Pacing and development of cultures/characters is markedly different for TV shows versus movies versus literature. Egeanin's a great character in the books, right up until she's discarded by Egwene. Indeed, I would have liked to see what became of her after the Last Battle, though I'm not sure whether she and Bayle survived. But in a TV show, there's simply not room for the 148 PoV characters and 2000+ named characters, and the inclusion of Egeanin dictates a pace for the development of Seanchan humanity that would deflate their threat and mystery too soon. And every major plot point she contributes to can either be done by another already established character or cut entirely, for example, the Sad Bracelets, which can be entirely replaced by Callandor itself.
  21. Because there's other ethnic descriptors for those distinct ethnic groups. "Asian" typically refers to people east of India and north of the Philippines, who have the classical "chinese" phenotype; typically short, with dark hair and dark, slanted eyes, who don't typically have robust amounts of facial hair. Equivocating between "Asian" as an ethnic label and "Asian" as a geographical description doesn't help clarify anything. Asia's a big place. Asians (as an ethnical descriptor) don't even make up half the people living there.
  22. Unless they're radically changing the timeline, Aviendha doesn't even show up until the third book. I'm sure they're writing Season 2 now, but I haven't heard that they've begun table-reads or any kind of filming or casting for that season yet. And I doubt the first season is getting all that far into book 2, I doubt it's much further than Fain having stolen the Horn and Dagger, the Amryiln confronting Rand with his destiny as the Dragon Reborn, and everybody setting off, the boys to get their things back, and the girls to Tar Valon for training. I very much doubt we'll be anywhere near Falme. And Brandon's comments came pretty early in this process. Whatever is rubbing him the wrong way, it's gotta be something already written and plotted out, which means it's likely something from the first book. I reckon the biggest, most likely change from the first books is that they've cut Baerlon, which likely means they've cut Rand and Mat's encounter with the Whitecloaks there, and probably pushed off meeting Min until Fal Dara, given who they've cast as her. I can see why cutting that might irritate a novelist, that sort of intermediate respite is a common trope of heroes journeys in novels. And it's an important scene for Rand, as that's his first time suffering from channelling sickness. But I think it could likely work out for the better anyway. Save the revelation of the incredible destinies of the Emond's Field 5 for nearer to the climax of the season, and at the same time establish Min as a regular from the end of the first season on, instead of as a recurring character with a near season-long absence between appearances. It would mean we get more Min, with better early characterization for her, and shifts her becoming an adjunct Wonder Girl via hanging with princess Elayne while Eggy and Nyn are travelling from Fal Dara to becoming and adjunct Wonder Girl via travelling with Eggy and Nyn.
  23. We know that Rafe has said that he was most looking forward to filming the scenes for Tarwin's Gap, so that bit of it at least is unlikely to be radically changed. Will the Eye of the World and the appearance there of the Green Man, Aginor and Balthamel remain similarly unchanged? I dunno, possibly, possibly with some big changes, though. Maybe they're clearing up some of the mystery surrounding the Eye for the audience. To add to your list, it could be that they're cutting Baerlon, and introducing Min in Fal Dara. This character Steve that's been announced as cast may be a "placeholder" name to keep some mystery about some of the characters, maybe it's really Ishamael? But it could also be a legitimately new character. If it's the latter, that might spur some friction. We'll likely just have to wait and see, unless Brandon wants to be more forthcoming. I imagine someone will eventually pin him down on that, likely after the first season drops and its reception is known.
  24. Vultures seem stupid to us because they're big, and thus awkward and lumbering on the ground. And their ability to soar at well-beyond bow range and scan a battlefield, and their vastly superior senses of smell, would make them excellent scouts, of a kind. My theory is that vultures are as immune from influence by the Shadow as hawks would be. The Dark One's powers are strongest, not at night, but in twilight. Fades travel at the edge of shadow, not through its depths. And the Lord of the Grave can only snatch a soul soon after their death, and not long after. Presumably when that soul is still in transition. Darkhounds are most dangerous to encounter at crossroads. That theme, that the Dark One's powers are at their zenith during transitions, at thresholds and crossroads, is one that Jordan borrows from other cultures and myths, and never really comes to much. But I reckon it can explain why rats and ravens are susceptible to influence by the powers of the Shadow, where, for all we know, vultures are not. Vultures are carrion-eaters, it's true, but they prefer to feed on carrion that's been stewing for a bit. Long after a corpse has putrefied beyond the point where rats and ravens will feed on it (unless they're stressed or starving), vultures are still happily nomming away. And while rats and ravens will eat fresh meat recently killed, or even kill it themselves, vultures don't kill, and don't eat fresh meat. I would hypothesize that vultures are too far on the side of death to be the kinds of creatures that thrive in that transition between life and death. Just as someone would be as safe from a fade in a completely darkened room that has no shadow edges through which they could travel as they would be in a fully bright midday sun where any shadows are too small and weak, vultures are too far on the side of consuming the dead to be greatly influenced by the Shadow's powers and minions. Just my theory though. I couldn't find anything about vultures in the interview database, and I doubt Jordan thought about it to that degree, though I wouldn't be surprised if he had.
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