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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

ZorValachan

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  1. I remember being in college and most of my friends talking about WoT (it was up to TSR at that point). One stated that Thom and Moiraine were to be wed based off the vision of Thom pulling Moiraine's jewel out of a fire. I thought it was just he would end up saving her and basically ignored my friend. When Thom starts reading Moiraine's note every day in front of Mat, I did a reread of the books paying particular notice to anything Thom, Moiraine, and with the two of them. There was nothing but Thom thinking she looked nice, the Red Ajah/Owyn business and some mutual respect. It is not subtle and not beautiful, it is non-existent. Thom is like 65-75 and Moiraine is in her early 40s. That's me marrying someone my mom's or grandma's age (I'm 40). They have nothing in common beyond the game of houses. I had hoped against hope they wouldn't get married, but figured there would be -some- explaination on ToM. There was none. it was just 'Mat, Thom, and Noal rescue her and when she wakes up she demands to marry him.' It is crazy and makes no sense.
  2. Was Asmodean the only one to have his 'black cord' connecting him to the DO cut? Since the DO wasn't bringing back normal Darkfriends, maybe it took a Black Cord for this? Rand not being able to see Saidar might have led him to believe it was to protect against the taint, but maybe that was just another effect and the women forsaken had one too. A death could be felt through the cord and the DO would be able to bring them back. Asmo had the cord cut, so the DO couldn't. Not sure how well thought out this is, just a knee jerk thought
  3. Scattershot to hit some more current points. I did like TGS, It was the only time I ever liked Egwene's character, and I was happy to see her mature. ToM and aMoL she regressed. Of course I have mnay other reasons, but I don't have time for an exhaustive list now. While I think better and more conscise writing would have helped aMoL, I do not agree that Jordan always used ellipses effectively. There were plenty of times I would have preffered to see the actual fight/battle/scene than just ... and then it had already happened (Mat vs. Couladin being the main one in my head). Speeding up action fine, but sometimes bypassing the action isn't good. I can't disagree with Brandon arguing against the split as Suttree linked the Q&A where he states he did. But I cannot agree with it either as I also linked to his blog where he stated he couldn't make it in one book and that it needed 3. -And- that it was his sugesstion to Tom+Harriet. I think he chose which stance to take in both cases to 'defend himself'. I was also one who did not like TSR for some of the reasons stated above, but mainly it was because it followed what I think of the Fonz, Boba Fett, or Snake-Eyes (GI Joe reference) effect. A character (in WoT case the Aiel) is introduced who is mysterious and quickly liked by fans. Fans want to know more, so they are given more and more and more until there is no mystery, The charcter is a awesome bad-*** who cannot be stopped and for me becomes a caraciture of what they were. The aiel 'sand ninjas' did that for me and the Shark Jumping began in TSR. Yes, it did have good fights, dialogue, and points,I will not disagree with that, but the overall Aiel theme of the book was offputting and I do not think was needed. Again, as the aiel appeal to fans, I think it is one reason it is considered one of the favourites, just not mine.
  4. Pevara needed to make it seem like he couldn't hear to the bound asha'man so that he would think what he heard was not for him to hear. thus, fall into their 'trap'. She used the double negative and did not lie, but tricked the asha'man into thinking that she and the other asha'man were talking about secrets they did not realize he could hear. Very Aes Sedai 'trap'.
  5. +1 Quoted for Truth. A physical representation to confront Rand being senseless is not equal to a physical representation being senseless.
  6. I thought Galad fighting SH, losing his arm, etc. but killing him would have been symbolic of the ultimate Right fighting the ultimate Wrong.
  7. Stilling can't occur. Stilling is for Women. Gentling is for Men. Burning out is for both and Severing is what they called Stilling/Gentling in the Age of Legends.
  8. changes: 1) Demandred wasn't always in the 72 circle. Empahsize that. In Avi's POV we see that large circles are prime for killing, as the other channelers in it are sitting ducks. Demandred thinks about this as a reason they didn't have large 72 vs 72 in the AoL. 2) Don't have Demandred rage over Rand. As shown in previous books, he is not Sammael. He knows the best way to help the Dark One win is to demoralize Rand by destroying the armies of the Light. No shouting/screaming over LLT. It was shown in the DO vs Rand POVs that people giving up was more important than just killing them and Rand giving up was the most important. Have Demandred see this and this is the reason he doesn't go to SG. Mat's unexpected war knowledge is what provides the tension. 3) Don't include Galad. (aside: I would have had Galad vs Shadar Haran fight, instead of just his body in SG). Either Gawyn or Lan kill him assassination style (no monologues) while he is fighting elsewhere. As we've been beat over the head with warders saying 'an Aes Sedai can be killed by an arrow if unaware' for 13 books. So he is killed by a swordsman, but not in the "one-on-one single file lineup" presented. I think these changes would have done a lot to make Demandred make more sense.
  9. I think everything Perrin did in AMOL could have been easily combined with what he did in TOM. For 2 books he goes around in dreamland chasing Slayer. The whole point of Luc going to the blight was to become Slayer w/Isam and make Perrin strong enough in dreamland to break Lanfear's compulsion and kill her? He could have done everything to the point of killing lanfear in TOM, actually did some world fighting in AMOL and then get some wolf call to go to the dream and kill Lanfear in the end. I was very disappointed in him spending 2 books (and one of them the last battle) chasing his tail, as we spent multiple books before with him doing basically nothing.
  10. @suttree Thanks for the info I requested. I find it total opposite of what he wrote in his blog and wonder which is correct. if either. It does hint at some type of back pedaling or shifting of blame.
  11. Suttree, on 11 Feb 2013 - 11:47, said: Guessing you will be interested to know then that Brandon argued against the split and thought things should be wrapped up in one book as well. After these last three books it has become quite evident why. There simply wasn't enough material for three and so we get a huge amount of bloat and filler, with major structural issues to top it off. I would like to know where this information is, because by reading his blog, it seemed completely opposite. http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/56/splitting-amol Quotes from that blog: "To get this into one book, I'd need to railroad the story from climax to climax. I'd have to ignore a lot of the smaller characters�and even some aspects of the larger characters. I just couldn't justify that. It wouldn't do the story justice. I cringed to consider what I would have to cut or ignore. Perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps readers would have preferred a single, condensed volume so that they at least knew what happened. But I just couldn't do it. The Wheel of Time deserved better. This was not an easy choice. I knew it would anger some readers. I knew it would take a lot of time, and I would end up dedicating a great deal more of my life (and my family's life) to the Wheel of Time than I'd initially anticipated. At the very least, I was contemplating writing a book three to four times the length of the initial contract�essentially, doing four times the work for the exact same pay." and further down "Well, that was the first hint I had that this might be three books instead of two. I started to lobby Harriet subtly, pointing out that previous Wheel of Time books had been 380k, and perhaps that would be a good length for each Volume of AMOL, if it was cut. I also indicated that I felt it would be really nice to keep volumes of the book published close together if, indeed, the book had to be split." I am just curious if there is a statement somewhere that he was fighting against the split, because everything in that blog entry seemed to be him fighting for the split. Not trying to be argumentative just wanting to know and to explain where I am coming from. Thanks!
  12. Not sure if it struck anyone else as odd, but it seemed off that Moridin/the Dark One, gave Taim his BT title as his Chosen name. I assume in the Forsaken gatherings, they would speak their native tongue, the old tongue. As otherwise they'd all be sounding differently to each other than they are used to as well as holding a lot of contempt for this new 'inferior' age. But anyway, Moridin presents him to the other Chosen as M'Hael. And now they have to call him M'Hael. Which in their native tongue is 'Leader'. Lanfear was known as the only Chosen to Chose her own name. It's said 100 times (ok, maybe not 100 times, but at least more than a handful of times) in the in the series. So now Taim choses his own Chosen name. Precedents on naming Chosen: 1) Enemies name you back in the AoL and you took it as a badge of Pride (everyone except Lanfear) 2) Lanfear chose her own name 3) The Dark One specifically names you (all the Chosen brought back after death) I guess I just think that if the Last Battle was a 'Last War', then the Light would name him and as this is a short time the DO would. If the DO named him M'Hael, I thin kit would have brought up some questions (at least internally) with the Chosen. Having to call someone 'Leader' would be similar to calling the Nae'Blis. or at least would have had more sarcasm dripping when they spoke this name. I compare it to Immortals Ghengis, Attila, and Stalin meeting up with Sadam Hussein in the 1990s and immortal Hitler telling them Saddam's new name is The Boss.
  13. One limit to Demandred's destruction, could have been easily stated. Unfortunately it was not. Even within a full circle of 72, the strength of the circle would depend on how many men and women were the ratio. If it were a 66-women 6-men, it would have been significantly weaker than a 37-women 35-men circle. Taking all the possible Light side channelers (minus Damene), depending on the ratio used, the Light could have had 15 to 45 full circles as well. Or many many more non full circles that could have deflected damage. Remember circles give a portion of an individual's power, not all of it. With the dark having multiple circles too, it could have provided a 'reasonable' reason for neither side gaining a sure victory. Too bad this wasn't included as a limiting reason in the book for Demandred not being able to roflstomp the armies of Light. The tools were there to be used, looks like they were ignored instead.
  14. @ Mr Ares. I concede my specific point on paradise. I guess I never looked at "paradise" until I read about "Para Disen". I am not sure when RJ first used Para' Disen, so won't try to defend it. But with other words (especially to me channelers) characters use them, that I think should not. The common people, and really even Mat and Lan shouldn't be using 'channelers'. Mat, because he's made it a point to NOT talk about the OP, nor be around those who use the OP. Lan, because he should have respect in different measures for the various groups to not lump them all using a generic term. It is similar to the Min/Mat thing. BS is putting knowledge we know as readers into characters' heads that should not know/do something. And I guess when I start to see it heaped, I start picking nits. @Barid. I thought most of EoTW, Thom was with Rand and Mat, then got seperated at Whitebridge and then didn't return again until tGH. I didn't feel he was with Moiraine much at all. All the other 'together' with her seemed more reasonable that he was trying to find closure about his nephew Owyn. I could see Thom going through the rescue if the note had mentioned 'more about that nephew problem'. I understand the Siuan/Bryne romance better than this one. I did like certain scenes. As mentioned, I started to like the Loial scene in the first seen ogier charge against the trollocs, but that was precisely where my book started missing pages and I have to wait to finish it. Did anyone else dislike that Taim's Chosen name is M'hael? I don't mind he was made a Chosen, just it was always important that Lanfear was the only one to chose her darkside name. Also M'hael meaning 'leader' seems funny to me that any other Forsaken would be calling him 'leader'. I had been hoping to see a double bond; was good to see it. Another scene I thought well done was Bashere with Elayne, when telling her he knew her babies were Rand's and then convincing her to let everyone know.
  15. I was going to wait until I finished the book to write, but I got to page 320 and then my book does not have pages until 352, so I have to wait until I get a replacement from Amazon. Back history:. I actually thought TGS was one of the better books. It was the first time I ever liked Egwene. I think she regressed horribly in ToM. I also know it was RJ's call, but I always held hope that Thom and Moiraine would not get married. I always thought that 'romance' was forced. The man thinks she is 'pretty' a few times and that is foreshadowing love? I'd have been married about 743 times if that is how it is. I've been a WoT reader since 1990. Played in the WoT MUD 'Moment in Tyme' as Asmodean. I used to keep notes on all of Min's viewings, Egewene's dreams, etc. I stopped taking notes around aCoS. I hated that book and stopped reading after PoD. I got back in with WH and actually liked that a lot and same with PoD. Now on Quality of aMoL (1st 300 pages) I think some people have very very different views on WoT from mine. I don't see much of a change yet in 'Jesus Rand'. I saw his encounter with Moridin as Moridin trying to convince himself that Rand is just using tricks and not 'super-power'. Rand went to his dreamshard and started to change everything. Moridin was scared and trying to rationalize this. I agree Moiraine's turning the peace talks around should have been done better, but it wasn't horrible. What is horrible is that Rand fell to his knees in front of Moiraine and then without moving, knelt before Moiraine. That jarred me. But for the most part, the flow isn't bothersome, it is the word choices. Channelers. channelers. channelers, 99% of people in WoT don't know what 'channeling' is. They know Aes Sedai use the one power, so do dreadlords and Asha'man. Some learn that Wise Ones, Windfinders, and Damane do too. But they don't call them channelers. Instead of Bbring in our channelers" they're going to say, "Bring in our Aes Sedai and Asha'man. If you can, get the Wise Ones and Kinswomen here too!" There are no 'enemy channelers' to fight. They fight Black Ajah and Dreadlords. No 'channelers' beyond what we fans group them all to be. BS said he was a fan and maybe that hurt a lot of this book. he used fan terms instead of WoT terms. I find that poor. Phrases and words that should not be used and easily replaced should not have been overlooked. Lanfear when talking about Turning, says they had a choice. They could have been gentled. Gentling is a new term. She would have used Severed. Its like when fans talk about men getting Stilled. They don't, they get Gentled. Women get Stilled, and AoL people call both Severed. it might seem to be picking nits, BUT RJ pounded these into our heads in his 11 books. BS could have used his own style, but should have kept terms. Rand, remembering the AoL uses the word 'paradise' (I believe, but could be wrong it was one of the pre-release 'memories'). He should have used 'utopia' or something else. The AoL city 'Para Disen' is the AoL name, we haven't got so far in the wheel's turning as to use 'paradise'. It would be like Rand meeting Hawkwing and Egwene in Camleyn and saying "You two look regal, like Arthur and Guinevere in Camelot." I probably do not see 'modern' terms as much as these WoT inconsistencies. I have a bad habit (which my Greek Professor pointed out to me) of making 'fantasy sentences'. Meaning I read the words in a sentence, but make the sentence 'better' to my ears/mind and not what they actually are. It's probably why I didn't find the Moiraine scene ot the FoM bad. I most certaininly used mental inflections to make it better/cooler. But with words; channelers, Gentling, paradise, etc. It's like RJ the professor having pounded rules into my head for 23 years and then my next professor discarding them all. So while, unlike some of you, I don't see bad prose (to me something is either prose or verse and prose can be any style that isn't verse), but I see a lot of bad word choices that a simple replace in Word would have solved. I'll give more when I get my replacement book and finish edit* Earlier people mentioned it was like reading fanfic. Others gave good/bad examples of what they wanted/would have done things. Maybe a project to do 'better' call it 'Portal Stones' with different TG playouts. We can surmise certain 'big' points RJ must have wanted and then we fans can pick which is our 'true' ending and which are the portal stone world's ending.
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