[LIGHT VS SHADOW]: Black Tower Mafia Game

[hazelkrs1]

Alright so here we go! Before I weigh in on the heavier matters like Darthe's claim and whatnot, I figured I'd warmup by responding to things that stood out to me on my catch up:

 

vote John Snow

 

For being easily led and clearly feeling so guilty about being Mafia he thought his none vote on TRL would point a big finger at himself, which it did.

 

Not really much here, I just found this sentence very difficult to get through for some reason. I think there's a dangling participle I take exception to or something

 

 

I've never understand why some Mods include that rule. From experience, people are never right and their various theories make for a good old Modly giggle :)

 

I agree. Why limit conjecture?

 

Reads:

 

With my prod vote on Ithi and their reactions, Turin and Ithi are town.

 

 

Everyone else is too damn quiet.

 

I have school, but I am here now.... and so far I think that you're guess on Ithi being town is correct, but it's still kinda early to tell for sure.

 

Thanks for your input

 

 

I was under the impression from my first two games that scum and mafia were basically synonyms in this game. Since you can't make mafia an adjective describing behavior easily, I just used the other word. Ping I guess would work.

You really think I'd be sticking my neck out for anyone at this point in the game, against Ithi no less (knowing full well that would incur your wrath, Turin) if I was actually mafia? Not a chance.

What I did was challenge Ithis reasoning, and got an interesting reaction from her, as well as one from Turin.

If I wanted to try and lead a wagon on Ithi, wouldn't it stand to reason I'd have voted for her by now?

Turin, you might just be genuinely saying that, but you sure chose an opportune moment to appear and try to help Ithi.

 

Or you could be doing just that simply because it's so ridiculous that no one would think you'd actually do it as mafia.

 

 

Though for some reason I'm thinking your town.

 

Turn defending Ithi is expected, so it doesn't really imply anything game related.

 

This pinged to me, for a couple of reasons. When she responds to TRL's post (who is already starting to catch heat), she puts up a pretty lazy wifom case in response to his comment. He was wrong for saying something like "I would NEVER do that as mafia!" true, but that's most likely cause he is still new to mafia so hasn't figured out that that statement is pretty much a logical fallacy (anyone can do anything as mafia, if they think it might help them win).

 

The other part that stands out to me tho is her defense of Turin. First of all, she's not the only one to comment on his defending Ithi, a few have already chimed in on their coplay in games. But hers actually goes furthest in defending Turin, when he really doesn't need defending at all. Was anyone FOS'ing him for defending Ithi? Nope. So Cyan's defense of Turin seems like predefense to head off anyone of even getting suspicious of Turin. And the way she says it doesn't imply anything game related?!?! Um, this is mafia. EVERYTHING on thread can imply something game related, and we should never dismiss ANYTHING even if it seems fairly normal. Big ping to Cyan for this post.

 

 

On the subject of Ithi and Turin, I think Turin is trying to use his meta too boldly. He has linked himself with Ithi in many games, but in this one to defend her so early and after so little activity pings. He says she is playing within her town meta... this is honestly kind of underestimating her mafia skills however. I don't think her town and mafia meta are all that different, tbh. And to think that she couldn't manipulate her own meta to come off as townie when she wants to is also ridiculous.

 

Furthermore the manner in which Turin came out defending her, making it obvious and even questioning the tactics of mafia going after "townie" Ithi just reeked to me. I think yall have gotten so used to Turin coming out and defending her so obviously that you have forgotten that this is mafia, and that any player coming out that strongly in defense of someone else day 1 is pingworthy.

 

Vote Turin

 

What else... Darthe is honestly kind of disappointing me. He was newer when I came back into the fray a little while ago, but seemed to show a lot of promise towards being a skilled and fun mafia player. Then when I played his GoT game I had a good idea that he had a mind for interesting setups, which means he was a good lateral thinker and could be even better at mafia. Unfortunately I have seen that promise dwindle in recent games, as he has adopted a more EP-like playstyle in which he is uberconfrontational, and tries doing things that are overtly scummy, just to then omgus-fos people who vote or call him out on it.

 

As for his claim, I do think Pevara would be town. But his notion that he would use a better claim if he was lying was total weaksauce. If it is a fake claim, it's the exact kind of fake claim I would use, a character that's relatively obscure that also has questionable alignment, so it seems like you'd be crazy to use it as a false claim.

 

That being said, all in all I think for now I believe the claim, and think he is town, but also using ineffective methods for catching scum.

 

As for Snow/TRL, don't really see much on Snow atm, but that could be because he's gone into lurk mode on purpose. TRL is pinging me somewhat tho, and the manner in which he's pinging does kind of lead me to believe that if TRL flipped scum, so would Mr. Snow as well.

[hazelkrs1]

im not liking randoms fonting its all together then suddenly its not then it is again. I dont post from a phone but i wouldve thought it would use the same font all the time. You getting instructions Random? the way you are defending 'he who knows nothing' may not be because you are mafia but it definitely could be because you are together

 

 

Vote Random

 

This has been disproven many times by now. Copying a set of text on a page, then going to a diff page or refreshing the page, then pasting it will often do that weird formatting thing.

 

You've been in games where we have talked about the format thing enough, so you should know better.

 

FOS

 

Hey guys, I'm really sorry for the late start. I didn't let any of the mods know, but this weekend I was celebrating my first anniversary with Niki, so I was indisposed. Running audit right now but as soon as I'm finished I'll get all caught up and share my thoughts

 

You prioritised your anniversary instead of BT Mafia?! No, seriously, happy anniversary. I can´t believe it has gone a whole years since you got married.

 

I can't believe it either! For some reason, whatever trick I used to make her fall in love and marry me hasn't worn off yet, so let's keep our fingers crossed that it works for another year at least!

 

[MattheHat]

I'm kinda torn... there is no real thing to put true weight on yet...

[beanie]

:cackleh: Such a long reply to my post. I feel so loved

 

TRL has played a lot more games than I have, and even I know that's a bad idea to say things like that.

 

And ftr, I wasn't really defending Turin, or at least that was not my intention. I haven't played a game with either of them before so I'm not sure how Turin and Ithi usually play, but it makes sense that he would defend her :shrug: I don't think it says that much about his alignment.

[MattheHat]

:suspicious:

[hazelkrs1]

:cackleh: Such a long reply to my post. I feel so loved

 

TRL has played a lot more games than I have, and even I know that's a bad idea to say things like that.

 

And ftr, I wasn't really defending Turin, or at least that was not my intention. I haven't played a game with either of them before so I'm not sure how Turin and Ithi usually play, but it makes sense that he would defend her :shrug: I don't think it says that much about his alignment.

 

Once again- this is mafia. Leave your Bonds at home, along with your friendships, and any other relationship that might make you think you can trust someone else.

 

Anyone who comes out that strongly in defense of someone else, and gives a weak reason (that that person is within their meta, when the person in question is good enough that their meta doesn't vary mafia to town), is worthy of getting some pressure.

 

And should Turin flip scum, things won't look too hot for you dearie...

[MattheHat]

Yes, that is true... Turin should know that we would question his behavior towards defending Ithi in a mafia game, as that (as you said) breaks all bonds... *thinking*

 

I will FOS Turin for the time being...

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't like Link Threats. If this person turns out to be 'xyz' then you must be 'abc'. We all know that is not always the case. That being said, the sudden flurry of support for Turin defending me, when I really did not need any defense is very amusing indeed, especially from WoT who says she has never actually played with us before, so surely can not be aware of our personal peculiarities.

 

It certainly isn't a null tell as far as I'm concerned, but it does seem to always happen regardless of what alignments we both end up having. I've killed him off on Day One before and acted the heartbroken Bonded, he's backed me up all the way through a game only to stab me in the back at LYLO before ... It is what it is I guess

[beanie]

Once again- this is mafia. Leave your Bonds at home, along with your friendships, and any other relationship that might make you think you can trust someone else.

 

Anyone who comes out that strongly in defense of someone else, and gives a weak reason (that that person is within their meta, when the person in question is good enough that their meta doesn't vary mafia to town), is worthy of getting some pressure.

 

And should Turin flip scum, things won't look too hot for you dearie...

 

 

Mkay, point taken.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Matty is also probably Mafia btw. The lack of real content and fake smiley posts, then flipping to being suspicious of Turin, but just a FOS instead of a vote, when Despo paints an easy target just screams mafia to me. He is clearly hoping this prodding post will lead to more people voting to Turin without actually having to do so himself just yet.

 

And Cyan, don't be bullied into playing the game how others expect you too. Just play your own game, even though it totally reeks at the moment lol. Everyone and his dog can insist that Bonds must be ignored when playing this game, but me and Turin manage just fine thank you and generally don't ever feel the need to tear each other into pieces or be cut-throat. Our Bond is never broken, even when one of us is Mafia We've both made use of it in the past lol.

[MattheHat]

Nope, I don't wanna vote Turin at the mo because its not a real heavy charge! Also, we should give him a defence...

 

This isn't defending him! Just making him come up with an aliby...

[beanie]

@Ithi I have been told I play very scummy It's fun though But I usually get lynched within the first few days...

[MattheHat]

Maby because you are mafia?

[Nolder]

Is BG gonna sub out or is he lurking?

I've noticed this trend in most of the games he's been in recently

 

Unvote

Vote BG

 

You're not off the hook yet either Darthe

[beanie]

Maby because you are mafia?

 

 

 

Nah I'm always vanilla town

[Ithillian Turambar]

There's no such thing as Scummy ... there are mistakes that people make that make, and actions and responses that they do, that make people believe they are on the Mafia Team. If people do these things, then the mistake or action should be pointed out and explained - just saying something is scummy is very weak and poor play.

 

Besides ... I'm sure that at least in some of those games you were Town, so people were wrong sometimes about you lol. It is usually the Mafia Team who use terms such as Scummy or Flounder etc and they hope that if they say them enough, some of it will stick. It's because they have difficulties making genuine cases because they know that the people they are accusing aren't actually Mafia lol so they just go 'scummy scummy, flounder flail, over defensive' and hope that no-one notices that they haven't actually said anything that is truly viable.

 

Plus it isn't actually a word or term that you can defend against apart from saying 'no I am not scummy' and if you ask why people think you are scummy you get accused of being overly defensive. It is a brilliant ploy by them, but one to be aware of.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Nope, I don't wanna vote Turin at the mo because its not a real heavy charge! Also, we should give him a defence...

 

This isn't defending him! Just making him come up with an aliby...

 

Why does he need to defend or provide an alibi before you would consider voting for him? Especially as you also say it is not a 'real heavy charge'? Are you basically saying that you would only tag on the end of a stronger train of votes on Turin? Why would that be a good thing to do? Because then you wouldn't have to strongly justify your vote perhaps.

 

Besides ... John Snow is still Mafia, and Random and probably Matty The way that Matty and Random have been mixing the pot - along with Darthe's statement that Random is Town, along with his lack of game content posts, have not done anything to sway my suspicion of him.

[Niniel]

Vote count

 

Nolder (1) - Ed

John Snow (1) - Ithi

Ithillian - (1) Rand

Rand (1) - Time

Darthe (2) - Snow, Maw

Time (1) - Cyan

Maw (1) - Darthe

Random (2) - Turin, Dice

BG (1) - Nolder

Turin (1) - Des

 

Not voting: Tress, Matty, Kaylee, BG, LZM, Random

 

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

 

Deadline Thursday 9 PM CET. (+1)

 

Everyone has checked in.

[Gabriel Kross]

I checked out an hour ago Tina I haven't checked back in yet.

[Nolder]

Everyone has checked in.

Meaning BG read and acknowledged his role PM and has yet to post

that smells of third party to me

[Netbattler11]

I'm kinda torn... there is no real thing to put true weight on yet...

"I'm totally playing and involved with the game. Look how helpful I am!"

 

People are making cases over lots of things bro.

[Ithillian Turambar]

BG has actually posted 15 times in this game, and is the fourth most active poster, barring the Mods.

[Netbattler11]

Yes, that is true... Turin should know that we would question his behavior towards defending Ithi in a mafia game, as that (as you said) breaks all bonds... *thinking*

 

I will FOS Turin for the time being...

"Ooh look, a plausible case. I think i'll follow it"

[Darthe]

@ Nolder, I was on a hook?

 

@Despo, I've picked this up at mafiascum, it is quite impressive how well they do with minimalistic posting tbh. Much faster scum hunting without losing efficiency, even if it doesn't quite have the finesse or fun I enjoy. Still, what can I do on a college schedule?

 

@EP, apparently we are being compared now. Congratulations!

 

@ Ithi there is totally such thing as scummy... Who cares what you want to call it?

[Netbattler11]

Nope, I don't wanna vote Turin at the mo because its not a real heavy charge! Also, we should give him a defence...

 

This isn't defending him! Just making him come up with an aliby...

"What, people objected to the case i piled on? Time to go in the other direction!"