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Luckers
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On another note, i seem to remember talk of something from book 3 that would have an influence on things in this book. Was that thing Boundless/Noam?

Luckers's answered this above. The (big) unnoticed thing was Mat's Ashandarei.

Hmm, I don't know why that didn't register at first read. Perhaps because I didn't read it at all. Phew, I hate listening to books.

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We don't know precisely what's going with Rand's new inner light. It seems to hurt darkfriends and hold off the madness, plus it seems to have given Rand super-weaving powers.

I assumed the "super-weaving" was due to integration with LTT rather than directly part of his Super-Rand Powers.

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On another note, i seem to remember talk of something from book 3 that would have an influence on things in this book. Was that thing Boundless/Noam?

Luckers's answered this above. The (big) unnoticed thing was Mat's Ashandarei.

Hmm, I don't know why that didn't register at first read. Perhaps because I didn't read it at all. Phew, I hate listening to books.

 

I didn´t mean the BUT.

 

I think it was mentioned in Jasons review. Or somewhere else. Or i´m just totally imagining it. That would be a definite possibility.

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Was it ever explained how Mesaana circumvented the oaths? I remember them making a big deal about it near the beginning, but after her death, they basically just said no one noticed her because she was posing as a Brown Ajah...

She had her fingers crossed behind her back.

 

Seriously, it could have been because she used her own carefully chosen wording, which the oath-witnesses interpreted as being what they wanted to hear. Hundreds of women were re-taking the oaths. That's got to have gone on for days; likely it was turned into an assembly-line process overseen by low-level minions at some point.

 

But let's look at the three oaths:

1.To speak no word that is not true

2.To make no weapon with which one man may kill another

3.Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

 

Nothing in there which Mesanna could not sincerely swear to with a straight face. Then, when asked to proclaim she was no a "darkfriend," well in her eyes she wasn't one. Darkfriends are minions. Mesanna is neither a minion nor a peasant; she is a member of the ruling council, a queen of sorts.

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So was Byar a Darkfriend?

 

He did act like the "knife in the middle of the tempest" that was supposed to strike Perrin as Graendal had planned.

Just a withecloack , some folk think all that is different is wrong and evil Byar was one of them .

Graendal's PoV suggests he was under some form of compulsion.

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The eyes are a window into ones soul. To me thats what Rand was doing. He walked down the entire line, staring into peoples eyes, looking. I would not be surprised if he can tell it from that. We know Fain can see darkfriends, so there is obviously a way of doing so. I dont think its entirely unreasonably that Rand has gained a similar ability. He even said afterwards that he is no longer blind and that they cant hide among his allies any longer. And then we have the situation with Basheres cousins. Basically, darkfriends around Rand now are screwed.

 

I'm of the same opinion he was definately looking for something specific within or behind the eyes. Otherwise he wouldn't have been determined to get Weiramon to look him in the eye. He was probably Delving them with the One Power. We all know that a DF must be marked in some way as the Dark Oath the great Lord makes them take is binding in some way or other, like the sworn Oaths on the Oath Rod ter'angreal.How else would the DO know you had broken your Oath when you squeel secrets. Perhaps it leaves a trace of something that Rand can now see. Obviously his memory of the War of Shadows from Lews Therin has given him the ability to detect this and that is what he means by I am no longer blind. After this public display in Tear of outing the DF High Lord and High Lady the other lowly DF's aren't likely to continue to hang around.

Also Lews Therin said he liked Weiramon as he was predictable not as a person/friend, in his madness perhaps it was a hint that Lews could already see he was a DF? A clever bit of Foreshadowing IMO.

 

What he was doing was making them look at him. With his "holy halo" aura darkfriends can't look directly at him, which is why Bashere's cousin basically stabbed his own eyes out. If you live int he darkness, the light is overwhelmingly blinding. So by forcing them to look at him, he can spot darkfriends by their inability to do so, which is what we saw in Tear.

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Personally, I think the title might deserve a thread of it's own.

 

It's not called THE Towers of Midnight - just Towers of Midnight.

 

Granted several towers are important to the book - White Tower, Tower of Genjie, the towers in Egwene's dream - but the place known as The Towers of Midnight - gets a minor mention in the book.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the title was about.

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Okay, I am a flippin' idiot. I have just finished the book, and have managed to MISS the asmo bit. I feel like total tool !! Will someone have pity on me? I believe I gathered that it was Graendal from an early post here in this thread, but where did I miss the important bits !! I have been waiting 10 flippin years to figure this out, and it is driving me nuts.

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I read the title and coldn't hep but think of this.

 

"Don't ask me silly question,

I won't play silly games,

I'm just a simple choo-choo train

and I'll always be the same."

 

My friend just lent me The Dark Tower series by Stephen King and I had to pause that when ToM came out. Anyway... just thought it was an interesting choice of words =)

 

[edit] - actually that's strange - I think I have Dark Tower on the brain 0.o I thought the title said "silly" not "simple" =/

Edited by bobsbarricades
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Okay, I am a flippin' idiot. I have just finished the book, and have managed to MISS the asmo bit. I feel like total tool !! Will someone have pity on me? I believe I gathered that it was Graendal from an early post here in this thread, but where did I miss the important bits !! I have been waiting 10 flippin years to figure this out, and it is driving me nuts.

 

Its never revealed explicitly in the text, though there are some new hints and clues dropped therein that may as well have been a huge, flashing neon arrow with the words "She's the one who done it" written on it pointing to Graendal LOL:

 

First there is the scene where Moridin in chiding Graendal for allowing Aran'gar to die where he states, "You seem to be making a habit or this sort of thing ......... surely you do not mean to imply that Aran'gar had turned TRAITOR?" (emphasis mine)

 

Then there is the scene in the epilogue where SH states that Graendal is responsible for the deaths of three Forsaken. We know she is responsible for Aran'gar and Mesaana and the most likely third SH is referring to is Asmodean. I suppose you could argue that she is indirectly responsible for Sammael's death since she suggested the he could take out Rand on his own, but that is kind of a stretch. Asmo seems much more likely to me.

 

I don't mean to criticize, given that this mystery has been going on for the past 17 years it is understandable for one to remain somewhat sceptical without as straight up confirmation. Well this can be found in glossary under "Graendal." And don't feel bad about missing that, I didn't see it either until someone tipped me off. I mean who reads the glossaries? lol

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Personally, I think the title might deserve a thread of it's own.

 

It's not called THE Towers of Midnight - just Towers of Midnight.

 

Granted several towers are important to the book - White Tower, Tower of Genjie, the towers in Egwene's dream - but the place known as The Towers of Midnight - gets a minor mention in the book.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the title was about.

 

I think the title is a reference to the forsaken, represented as black towers in Egwene's dream:

 

All dust was around her, and thirteen black towers rose in the distance beneath a tar like sky.

 

The above would represent the original 13 forsaken.

 

One fell, and then another, crashing to the ground. As they did, the ones that remained grew taller and taller. The ground shook as several more towers fell.

 

This would represent the destruction of the various forsaken that have been eliminated.

 

Another tower shook and cracked, collapsing most of the way to ground--but then, it recovered and grew tallest of all.

 

Ishamael's death and Moridin's ascension to Nae'blis.

 

At the end of the quake, six towers remained, looming above her.

 

At this point in the story, in Egwene's time line, there are six forsaken left: Moridin, Cyndane, Moghedien, Graendal, Mesaana, and Demandred.

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The Alanna letter creates a few questions for me.

 

Firstly I thought that somebody had travelled into Alanna's room delivered the letter and Alanna had left that way because from what I understand nobody would feel the weaves on an incoming gateway.?.However I think that just might be overthinking it. But am I right no-one would feel an incoming gateway?

 

Would you say it is clear enough that we are to assume Alanna effectively rode out of town?

 

Lastly IMO the nature of Alanna's task/warning from Verin must be some form of preventative measure in respect of a plan by the black ajah? My suspicion is that it involves the black tower - because I cannot see anything short of Alanna's death at the black tower causing Rand to go there and fix that mess, what with the last battle at hand. In addition there was referenced several times that Alanna channeled a small amount - now if she was attempting to travel to a dreamspiked blacktower and the gateway weave dissolved would this be felt as a small amount of chanelling because the weave didn't complete?

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Even though we finally, FINALLY!!!!! know who done it there are still so many unanswered questions:

 

Why was Graendal in Caemlyn @ that particular time?

 

What was she doing in that wine pantry?

 

Did she go there with the intent to kill Asmo, or was he just unfortunate enough to happen upon her?

 

How did she kill him?

 

What did the place where he was killed have to do with the DO being unable to trasmigrate his soul?

 

and most importantly, how in in the HELL was that in any way, shape or form intuitively obvious?!!!!! LMAO

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If you'll go back and look at who he keeps around him, ( especially the whole attack on the Seanchan escapade ) I think you'll see that, at least subconsciously, he does have suspicions.

Yes, I already mentioned that he had subconscious suspicions. But most of the time, he simply thought Weiramon dangerous because he was an idiot, not because he was a Darkfriend. And in any case, it's fairly evident he had a tip on Weiramon. Even Linda agreed - she's added it to her article on Verin's letters now.

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Why was Graendal in Caemlyn @ that particular time?

 

What was she doing in that wine pantry?

 

Did she go there with the intent to kill Asmo, or was he just unfortunate enough to happen upon her?

 

 

 

I got the impression that Graendel killed Asmo to get herself into favour with the Dark Lord. I felt that by killing a traitor she was manoeuvring for position as the Nae'Blis? I have not done a reread but was it made obvious that Asmo had info on G? could that be the motive?

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Why was Graendal in Caemlyn @ that particular time?

 

What was she doing in that wine pantry?

 

Did she go there with the intent to kill Asmo, or was he just unfortunate enough to happen upon her?

 

 

 

I got the impression that Graendel killed Asmo to get herself into favour with the Dark Lord. I felt that by killing a traitor she was manoeuvring for position as the Nae'Blis? I have not done a reread but was it made obvious that Asmo had info on G? could that be the motive?

 

I thought so too, but one thing I find somewhat confusing is that both Moridin and SH now seem somewhat critical of her for killing Asmo. This is odd, because up until now they seemed anything but displeased with anything that Graendal had done. So what's the deal? Do they think that she destroyed Mesaana on purpose and are they beginning to think that Asmo as a traitor was just Graendal's cover story? I guess her propensity for killing other Chosen would call her motivation for killing Asmo into question.

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