Ratings: Season 2 (E01, E02, E03) lost 63% of Season 1's audience according to Nielsen

[Elgee]

Just FYI: WOT is currently the nr 1 Amazon Prime show in South Africa (my country) .... yet I don't know a single person here who knows it's on. Go figure.

[Pandemonium]

The Nielsen report only includes 2 days of viewing.  The show released on Sept 1 and this only included data through 9/3.  I'm still expecting a drop of course, because Rafe said to expect devastating viewership drops due to the strike stuff.

 

That said does anyone see a single other Amazon prime show on that list?  I'm not so sure Amazon will be so quick to cancel a top show.   They don't have so many other IPs or shows to fall back on, plus wheel of time can continue to be an evergreen title for them.  I don't think Amazon has historically been as savage at canceling shows, and they have deeper pockets than anyone but Apple in this streaming space.

 

Rings of Power apparently only had a 37% completion rate and they already had a 3rd season greenlit.

 

Unfortunately wheel of time keeps hitting so many problems: covid, post production backup delays, writer's strike.  

I really hope they don't turn this into an every 2 year show, but that seems possible.  If they can't get it out annually I bet they will try to go the 5 season arc instead of 8 season 

 

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Pandemonium said:

 

Unfortunately wheel of time keeps hitting so many problems: covid, post production backup delays, writer's strike.  

I really hope they don't turn this into an every 2 year show, but that seems possible.  If they can't get it out annually I bet they will try to go the 5 season arc instead of 8 season

Unfortunately, COVID and Rafe isn't the reason why their shows aren't released annually.

 

I put this spreadsheet together of various prime shows and the number of days between season start to season start..

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iDBsu3dsd7K8Lj9qG5v11BUKr0UVbEQ_ncttG05ni2c/edit?usp=drivesdk

[Wassup]

For some reason, I imagine the number of people that would list Prime Video as a factor in their decision to subscribe to Prime would be pretty low.

 

Most might not even know it is included.  My wife didn’t know Amazon Music was included until I told her years after we had subscribed. 
 

 

[Elder_Haman]

Probably highest exposure among people who use a Firestick to stream. 

[Windigo]

23 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I "watch" stuff on prime to, but it's not my go to platform.

 

We're in the age of streaming overload.

 

There's too many shows, on too many platforms and not enough time to watch everything.

 

It used to be possible to watch most shows you were actually interested in watching.

 

These days you'd have to make it a full time job...

Or have a full time job that lets you do watch TV while you work.... 

They also almost never advertise shows across streaming services, I have no clue what is on Netflix since I do not have it. Trying to find things to watch is hit or miss even on the services I have.

But even then, they are relying on fans and not putting out advertisements, merchandising or content in the right places. They are hitting the numbers on the show each week for viewers on Amazon without more marketing. 

Son and his wife - both the right demographic, and have read the books, watched season 1 and did not realize season 2 was even out, he thought it might have been canceled. 
I also think releasing 3 at once was a mistake, 2 maybe but 3 means people wait to have time to binge them. 
 

[Scarloc99]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:12 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Right.

 

Amazon not picking up ad spots for YouTube is on Amazon. I don't think I've seen a single WoT Ad on Youtube...

On the other side, youtubers who follow WoT news will have picked up on those interviews and distributed that information to people who follow them.

So if you're also not following YouTubers who talk about the WoT show, you're also not going to get any information about it that way either.

I went through a period of seeing nothing but WOT adverts on YouTube, the great algorithm strikes lol. 

[Scarloc99]

19 hours ago, Wassup said:

For some reason, I imagine the number of people that would list Prime Video as a factor in their decision to subscribe to Prime would be pretty low.

 

Most might not even know it is included.  My wife didn’t know Amazon Music was included until I told her years after we had subscribed. 
 

 

I am one of these, I am subscribed to prime for the postage and packaging and free next day/fast delivery options. The TV service comes as a benefit that I take advantage of, but don’t see as the core reason for owning prime. I have yet to use the music service mainly because I get Apple Music free as part of my mobile phone package (I also have Apple TV free for the same reason), personally Apple right now is producing consistently by far the best original TV of all the streaming services, yes Netflix and Amazon have good series but Apple is just great across the board. I don’t understand Amazons model for revenue for TV they do not advertise themselves as a TV service. To be fair though the Amazon Shopping service is now days barely worth talking about in terms of Amazon total revenue, they are a tech and web services company (AWS) with a corner shop tucked away in the back. They could close the Amazon store and Amazon prime tomorrow and it would barely impact revenue. 

[king of nowhere]

well, then either the algorithm is worse than we think - because many of us never saw any youtube ad for wot despite being fans - or it's a lot better than we think - because the algorithm recognized we are fans enough that we would follow wot and know the s2 release through other channels, and therefore it would be pointless to show us the ad - like the metaphorical preaching to the choir.

 

i don't know which is scarier.

 

in any case, there was an objective lack of advertising, caused by the workers strike. some dump in the ratings is to be expected. how big? no idea. I'm not qualified to say if keeping this show is lucrative for amazon or not

[Samt]

I don’t think it’s clear what the revenue metrics are for Amazon originals since no one is paying to watch directly.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

well, then either the algorithm is worse than we think - because many of us never saw any youtube ad for wot despite being fans - or it's a lot better than we think - because the algorithm recognized we are fans enough that we would follow wot and know the s2 release through other channels, and therefore it would be pointless to show us the ad - like the metaphorical preaching to the choir.

 

i don't know which is scarier.

 

in any case, there was an objective lack of advertising, caused by the workers strike. some dump in the ratings is to be expected. how big? no idea. I'm not qualified to say if keeping this show is lucrative for amazon or not

I also think it is hard to gauge what Amazon and other streamers are looking for, a big number up front, or a constant trickle of viewers over an extended period of time, there are a number of tv series that really became popular after seasons 2 or 3 and then draw in new viewers several years after episode 1 and this is a strength of streaming TV, you can just view it whenever. 

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

I'm not qualified to say if keeping this show is lucrative for amazon or not

I'm not convinced that it matters. My understanding is that this is a Bezos vanity project. So he may just go ahead and finish it because he wants to, regardless of how 'profitable' it is. 

[Scarloc99]

Another thing, which is insane to consider, Amazon power every other major streaming service. Netflix, Disney Plus, Apple TV, Now TV etc all pay Amazon to host their entire infrastructure so it is no issue to Amazon if they lose viewers to other streamers lol. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Scarloc99

[Guire]

10 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm not convinced that it matters. My understanding is that this is a Bezos vanity project. So he may just go ahead and finish it because he wants to, regardless of how 'profitable' it is. 

I think this is the important part that has been hard to figure out.  I agree that Amazon is not making its shows primarily as a commercial enterprise currently. So as a vanity project it wants positive press and awards probably.  I think RoP really blew its chance the first season.  WoT has much better potential to achieve that goal with 2nd season.  The decision to make adaptation more progressive was probably also to court press and awards more than to appeal to widest audience. So audience metrics may be pretty low marker for deciding how long show runs.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, Guire said:

I think this is the important part that has been hard to figure out.  I agree that Amazon is not making its shows primarily as a commercial enterprise currently. So as a vanity project it wants positive press and awards probably.  I think RoP really blew its chance the first season.  WoT has much better potential to achieve that goal with 2nd season.  The decision to make adaptation more progressive was probably also to court press and awards more than to appeal to widest audience. So audience metrics may be pretty low marker for deciding how long show runs.

This is super perceptive. And absolutely correct, IMO. And it’s probably one of those deals where as long as Bezos likes the show, it will keep going. (He is rumored to be a fan of the books). 

[nsmallw]

On 9/30/2023 at 7:58 AM, Pandemonium said:

Unfortunately wheel of time keeps hitting so many problems: covid, post production backup delays, writer's strike.  

I really hope they don't turn this into an every 2 year show, but that seems possible.  If they can't get it out annually I bet they will try to go the 5 season arc instead of 8 season 

This is true. It's always a trip wire until the next season is green lit. I expect season four to be greenlit but i'll be on pins and needles til that happens. Re" 2 year time frame, the extra time they took for season two really paid off and so I expect that trend to continue. I wonder if the amount of money Amazon invests in each season increases which considering the massive expansion of the world in each succeeding book will become increasingly more difficult to adapt. They told us to gird our loins re season two...i expect that to be a theme throughout the rest of the show. 

[Chivalry]

On 9/29/2023 at 3:14 AM, books of Robert Jordan said:

Any comment on this?

It's unfortunate?

[nsmallw]

I'd be interested in a more world view of the ratings for season two eps 1-3. 

 

I know its difficult to think beyond our country but it's my unofficial understanding is that its more popular outside usa. 

[Robbin Poh]

Season 1 had better publicity, but wasn't good enough to retain many audiences. 

Season 2 had no publicity, the directing and writing was so much better. I notice the videos, viewership and discussion on social media increasing significantly as the season progresses. It will probably have much better longevity than season 1, new viewers will be joining in and there will probably be sustained discussions on social media all the way until season 3.

And because it made significant changes from the books, so people have the room to speculate and theorize, whereas the earlier seasons of GOT followed the books closely so people needn't speculate at all, while the writing standard in the later seasons of GOT had dropped so much that people were too turned off to care what will happen. Someone important will die or do terrible things, the show writers are just resorting to shock tactics or exaggerated melodramatic plot twists, thinking that was what made the earlier seasons work so well.

[Mirefox]

Speaking of rating, I was just browsing around on Prime and I noticed that The Shannara Chronicles has a higher star rating than Wheel of Time.  Ouch.

 

Both are higher rated in Amazon than Rings of Power.  The Expanse, another book adaptation, is rated higher than all of them.

 

This nonsense is what happens when I don’t have enough time to start a show before my kids get home but I’ve already sat down and don’t feel like getting up.

[Elder_Haman]

I just browsed the episode by episode critic's reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. In terms of critical reception, you can tell that this season is doing things well. As the season has gone on the critics have gone from lukewarm to very positive in a nearly straight line.

 

Interestingly Episode 7, which is one of the less popular here, gets the highest marks from the critics.

[Mirefox]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I just browsed the episode by episode critic's reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. In terms of critical reception, you can tell that this season is doing things well. As the season has gone on the critics have gone from lukewarm to very positive in a nearly straight line.

 

Interestingly Episode 7, which is one of the less popular here, gets the highest marks from the critics.

That is interesting.  I would think that E6 would have had the best reviews of the season.

[Ralph]

33 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Speaking of rating, I was just browsing around on Prime and I noticed that The Shannara Chronicles has a higher star rating than Wheel of Time.  Ouch.

 

Both are higher rated in Amazon than Rings of Power.  The Expanse, another book adaptation, is rated higher than all of them.

 

This nonsense is what happens when I don’t have enough time to start a show before my kids get home but I’ve already sat down and don’t feel like getting up.

 

I wonder how much of this is because of the very vocal and devoted fandom of wot and LOTR, which is (I believe) far greater than of Shannara

 

as someone once said on here, check what mark you get when you take out all the ones and all the fives. that is far more indicative

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ralph

[SinisterDeath]

34 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Speaking of rating, I was just browsing around on Prime and I noticed that The Shannara Chronicles has a higher star rating than Wheel of Time.  Ouch.

 

Both are higher rated in Amazon than Rings of Power.  The Expanse, another book adaptation, is rated higher than all of them.

 

This nonsense is what happens when I don’t have enough time to start a show before my kids get home but I’ve already sat down and don’t feel like getting up.

Two things.

1) How many people are actually watching/rating it on Prime? Shannara Chronicles didn't initially come out on Prime. It was originally an MTV show.

2) As of Season 2, I haven't been able to rate shit on Prime. The most I can do is give it a "thumbs up" but I can't actually give it "star rating".  I can't do this on my TV, Phone, or Web. So who knows how many other's can't figure out how to "rate" the show on Prime.

[DreadLord31]

I take it as not a great sign that Rafe in one of his first interviews post strike made a comment … that indicated he wasn’t sure they’d get a season 4. 
 

Hmm let me see if I can find that…