The Blood Snow director?? That would be sweet!

I’ve heard a bunch of respected commentators say that if Amazon would just give them more time they’d do a better job. Here’s why I don’t think that is the case: #1. They did a better job in S2 than S1 with choosing a more compelling season theme line… rather than “Who is the Dragon?” It seemed to me that it was “Who is a friend & who is a Darkfriend?” But still - they didn’t deliver on that theme. There are easy ways in the time frame they are given to do that. You A) need to cut Lan pissing on a tree & keep your Ingtar scene. B) Cut the whole Moiraine’s family plot line & lean into your love of Nynaeve/Egwene…give us more follow through on their response to Liandrins betrayal, what happened with the Yellow sister, ect… #2: other than Blood Snow, they can’t give us good action sequences; the editing or lighting or both is terrible. And they write silly decisions like Lan catching an arrow and that archer ceasing to keep firing. #3: One Piece showed me that good writers maximize the time they’re given. WoT wastes scenes. Sometime they deliver (particularly with the Forsaken), but the writing is so inconsistent.

Really? I think there are a whole bunch of smile worthy moments with Mat in the later books… Though, as has been said, the tone of the whole series is not the “silly, comic-book/anime” feel that One Piece has. And, for crying out loud, One Piece had legit sword fight/fighting sequences. Apart from Blood Snow, their editing in WoT has shown me that the directors don’t know how to film action sequences - which is a huge problem!

Nope, good catch, that’s my mistake. Rafe just said “Tanchico” & something about a bar & knives & jungle like atmosphere & everybody being ready to kill each other. So brain fart on my part to mix up Taraboners & Domani. BS’s involvement and role has never been clear to me. On this finale episode he was listed as a Co-Producer…but then he groaned and made comments like “I tried” throughout the whole watch through. So, you’re right, I don’t really know if he knows or not - he just said “I think Isha’mael is dead, dead.”

In a recent interview with Rafe here’s what I did learn about S3: 1) We are getting the Waste and more of Aiel culture 2) We are getting Tanchico & Domani culture 3) We are getting Sea Folk 4) We are getting more from more of the Forsaken, particularly Moggy. 5) This is more of a Rand/Perrin season. I don’t know; but from BS’s comments - I think Ishy is dead/gone (and I dislike that decision) & I think that Matt is keeping the SL dagger on a stick for his ashendari (and I dislike that decision too). But I’m looking forward to the Battle of the TR. To more Aiel culture & to more Forsaken (since that seems to be their writing strength.)

Let me give some examples: Great writing = TvThom “They call us gleeman because it’s a silly name that makes us less scary. There’s nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past.” 🔥 Or Lanfear: “He thinks I’ll betray you.” Ishy: “Will you?” Lanfear: “Of course.” 🔥 Pretty much all the stuff with Lanfear/Ishy/Liandrin has been very good. Ok writing: Anavere “You got none of his goodness. You’re all mom.” Moiraine: Tear runs down her cheek. The whole Moiraine family story-line. Verin and the scooby-doo browns. Bad writing: Lan pees on a tree. Lots of “fake out deaths”. Siuan shows up briefly & acts completely out of character for - drama? SL dagger does whatever you need it to - melt locks - open the horn - instant kill - or not instant kill. Breaking your own show lore. Random archer from cliff fires one arrow. Lan catches it. Archer fires no more arrows? Ishy stands and does nothing while Rand gets healed. He then just lets Rand stab him with a flame sword (that has a heron & then the sword breaks). Heron marks mean what exactly to non-readers? Not completing story arcs & not setting up pay-offs & somehow dropping characters. Like - what happened to Min? Where’d Loial go? Pretty much all of Perrin’s lines.

I’m not a “book purist”. And I don’t agree with the Tv haters. S2 was better than S1. And both seasons had many moments that showed a lot of promise. I watch quite a bit of Tv, and there’s not a lot of stuff out there attempting what WoTTv is and excelling. For example: I watched S1 & S2 of the Witcher - season 3, didn’t finish it - didn’t think it was very good. I watched S1 of Shadow & Bone. Didn’t finish S2 - not that good. Rings of Power - watched them all, won’t watch S2 - it was that bad. Now - One Piece - is actually pretty good. But other than that, S2 of WoT was as good or better than any fantasy shows currently out there. Even so - I think that: A) the acting is great; B) the costuming/sets are very good; C) the CGI is much improved; and D) the writing is inconsistent - sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s ok, sometimes it’s terrible.

I mean they fleshed out Alanna and her Warders whilst having Lan pee on a tree… Somebody wrote that scene & Rafe approved it. So anybody who argues they need more time - nah - they are literally pissing away time with central characters so they can develop tertiary or made up characters. So again - at least think about the fact - if you’ve read and loved the books for a long time - regardless of if you like the show (I mostly DID like S2 - I thought it was good Tv) - that they’ve chosen to develop Liandrin more than Rand, Perrin, or Mat - through their first two seasons. And then tell me what you think that means …

And you know, if I’m being super fair to Rafe … everybody I know that are fans of WoT have certain characters and arcs they like & certain characters and arcs they just want to “get through” to “get to the good stuff”. So obviously that would be true of writers & Rafe & Sarah N too. And if I were (with that in mind) guessing from the show at the characters/arcs that Rafe likes most I’d say it’s: Egwene, the WT politics/black Ajah hunt. Nynaeve & her power/block/and internal struggles. And Moiraine as a newer more interesting lesbian female Gandalf. And Lanfear/Ishy/the Forsaken’s motivations. I think he also really does love Mat, but Barney leaving really screwed up his plans. Perrin is hard to adapt. I just don’t think Rafe likes Rand… But - to be honest, the first time I read the books I didn’t like Nynaeve. So - to each their own. Sure. But they still chose to flesh out Liandrin - over Mat and Perrin and Rand. To flesh out Anavere… And that’s my point.

I don’t disagree. I enjoy it a lot more if I can (as Daniel G has said) “Flip the old rusty, hard to move, book switch off in my brain”. But I was more saying that in defense of the post right above it - that clearly the writers do think they can improve on RJ and BS & in certain ways don’t want to be tethered to their writing (and when they’re not - they actually do write pretty well) … but that makes me sad…

I mean, seriously think about that as an adaptation choice … Liandrin has more backstory & probably equal screen-time through the first two seasons with Mat, Perrin, and Rand. And has definitely outshined all three in acting out what she has been given. Even if Liandrin is replacing Alviarian … think about that. Seriously. If you are a lover of the books & unquestioning defender of the show. Think about that.

You know, actually my problem with the writing is that it’s so inconsistent in its quality … Some of it is actually very good; but it tends to be the parts where they’re not adapting & can just do their own stuff that is not WoT (and that makes me particularly sad because it tells me that some of the main writers do NOT actually love the books - and has been said - really do believe they know better than RJ and BS). For example: the Moiraine & her family stuff was actually written pretty well - it’s just “new” content. All the villains (except Fain) have been brilliant. Liandrin has more development and backstory than Rand. Lanfear is the star of this season. Ishy was brilliant. Moggy was the perfect way to end things. It’s just painful though what they’ve done writing wise with Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Lan. So I hope that S3 gives more development & cool moments to the main characters of WoT. And I think they will… because I’m hopeful! And because S3 is supposedly a closer adaptation of book 4!

correct. He was ticked that they killed a character that he purposefully kept alive the entire time - and they rewarded his criticism with yet another “fake-out death” lol

Yes, but if they had listened to him (I’m convinced anyways) it would have been better. For example, don’t give Perrin a wife and the fridge her and then just move past it like it never happened in S2. And…don’t have Egwene free herself, a huge theme of WoT is that you can’t win alone, you need each other. And… you don’t give Lan anything to do. And…you can’t spend a full episode worth of time on Moiraine’s family if there’s no pay off on it & if it takes away from the set-up of other characters. And … If you break the very clear and laid down Metaphysical rules of RJ’s world you’re going to end up in a mess real quick. And… no, no, no - Matt can’t make the Ashandari out of the SL dagger and then just carry it around & then just have it do whatever you need it to in the moment … And … It would be a much better show if they listened to Brandon. Though - it’s apparently his fault that Uno is a hero of the horn? So I could definitely be wrong …

When it comes to the show - I feel like Gollum. I both love and hate the show. I love it because it’s the WoT & characters that I’ve enjoyed for 20 years are on screen. I want it to succeed because it’s WoT & because then other awesome Fantasy series could be made or remade too. I hate it because they do stuff that I think are terrible choices & because they do stuff that is not my “head cannon”. I hate it because these are characters that I’ve thought about and loved for 20 years & I feel like they’re not doing them justice (in the writing, not the acting). And what I enjoy about this forum is that you see all of that - people who love and hate it (for reasons similar to what I said). And so far, anyways, the Mods let us have our “negative” opinions & don’t kabosh everything that isn’t “glowing reviews”. But I will say this … S2 was much better than S1 & if S3 can be much better than S2 — then 2 years from now, or whatever it is, I’ll be on here saying, “See, I told you WoT Tv is awesome writing!” 😂

I wouldn’t say his comments about the writing are balanced; but I would say overall he does share opinions both good and bad about the show. And I feel the same way. The acting is superb. The directing - they are getting the most out of the actors. The CGI was much, much better than S1. As Tv, it’s pretty darn good - I think BS said he thought S2 of WoT was better than RoP (and I totally agree!) What BS says about the writing though was something like “I know it’s not everyone, but for me, I can’t enjoy something unless there is set-up and pay-off … and the show isn’t doing that.” Yes, yes, I know he didn’t say those exact words. But watch the Dusty Wheel Episode of his watch through with Matt Hatch and Daniel Greene. That is the spirit/gist of what he said! I also thought it was quite interesting to see the three of them disagree about how Taverene works, about how SL dagger works, and about bad-guys not doing obvious things to easily win.

It is brought up again this time because it’s not just one opinion - this time there’s support from BS who is listed as a co-producer - that the writing is bad. So you can have your opinion - which is not supported by one of the foremost experts in the WoT (the person chosen to finish RJ’s work). And I can have my opinion that it’s mostly, poorly written - which is backed by Brandon Sanderson.

I love how the Incredibles makes fun of it & points it out as bad , stupid writing. And yet - it’s still repeated again and again.

Which even BS admitted, maybe it’s the Nihilistic Ishy and he just wants to die. That’s the only thing that would make it, not bad writing. But here’s why that is weak: BS has been consulted and read the scripts multiple times (and he did not think they had thought it through.) So it’s more likely the writing room went like this: Writer 1: Egwene is our main character for S2, right? Rafe: Yes. It would have been so much better if she was the Dragon - we want to show that she is super powerful. Writer 2: So how about Egwene frees herself of the A’dam? Writer 1: Brandon said that’s impossible in the metaphysics of the book - and makes the whole point of the A’dam less horrifying. Rafe: Mmmm - I like it though. Let’s do it. Writer 2: and then Rand shows up a minute after that and says, “I came to free you, but it looks like you didn’t need it.” Writer 1: But doesn’t that make Rand’s whole arc kind of pointless? And then why did we have Nynaeve & Elayne capture that one Suldam? Doesn’t it make their arc useless? Rafe: mmm - but I like it. Egwene is the best. Writer 1: Didn’t Brandon say that a huge point of the WoT is that our heroes can’t do it alone & that’s the point of the a’dam arc? Rafe: Forget Brandon. This is drama at its best. Writer 2 - go on. Writer 2: ok. Then Ishy shows up and knocks Egwene out & the Damane from the boats miles away shield Rand so Ishy can dialogue. But Egwene wake up & throws up a Shield. And Ishy throws fireballs at it for a couple minutes. Until Perrin can show up with a shield! Writer 1: What? Rafe: Love it. Let’s do it.

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Brandon Sanderson watch episode 8 - and groan through most of it - and then, heavily criticizing the writing as bad. They wasted too much time on Warder crap and Moiraine’s family & because of that they didn’t properly set stuff up. He also criticized how they are breaking their own established rules of lore which causes them a myriad of problems - which will only compound down the road. And that’s really interesting to me that he’s warning them of that and they’re ignoring him. For example, something he brought up that we didn’t even think of is … Lanfear & then Moggy at the end, teleport. Ok, well if they can do that, then how come the moment Egwene throws up a shield vs Ishy, why wouldn’t he just teleport behind it? Also - Brandon & Daniel Greene had HUGE problems with how they used the SL dagger. But I’ve already complained about that at length. So we won’t recap. But - my point is - I have mad respect for BS in being honest about the shows bad writing!

He was in S1. But at this point I change my answer to Lanfear. Killed it. The bill is a were so much better done than the protagonists that I’ve turned to the Shadow in this turning of the Wheel. The in this turning, it’s apparently “the Dark” 😅

might you be referencing how they’ve repurposed the “WT Hall Set” for about 3 other things & it was super obvious. I guess a million dollars just doesn’t buy what it used to…

I think we’ll see and care about Morgase with about the same number of minutes we were given to see and care about: Uno, Ingtar, Masema, Hopper, Barthanes, Siuan, and what was that Yellow sisters name again? Is she still alive? 😉 Or do you think they’ll somehow magically have more minutes for minor characters in S3?

The reason I think you’re predictions are very good is: A) We know Elaida has been cast in S3 and is a big-time Amazon actress, so she will play a significant role. B) They left us at the end of S2 with the beginnings of a real feud for Perrin, Bornhald, the Whitecloaks, and the Wolves — and with Fain fleeing and having a feud with Matt (thank goodness that’s finally getting back on track) C) We got a little bit more of Aiel, the intro to Ji’eh’toh & the Carn’a’carn. We’ll definitely get more there. D) Moggy and the rest of the Forsaken being freed is the big cliff-hanger. Moggy is a creep with power who isn’t going to miss when she takes her shot at Rand. She’s gonna take a shot in S3 or their writing is bizarre. But we also need to meet more of the Forsaken. E) We know we have Camelyn and the Lion Throne as a set. I would think, then, that they’re going to have Rahvin & their going to change the Morgase plot to be a lot shorter - but their will be Elayne & Egwene & Avi & Rand relationship drama. And we will get Elayne’s brothers. So I too think we’ll get the iconic Matt fight in Camelyn.

Now that S2 is finished I’m changing my answer… I ❤️‍🔥 Lanfear. All these years, and the Innkeeper at the Dusty Wheel, Matt Hatch, was right. Lanfear is indeed the best WoT character. In this turning of the wheel, I hope she gets Rand and wins! And how good was that intro to Moggy? Someone should make a “Moggy can 🕸️ me, anytime!” T-Shirt. She may be the hit of S2. And here’s to hoping they cast Alexandra Daddario as Graendal 🍻