I like your layout - but you’re assuming that we’re going to get 8 seasons. I’m assuming they’re gonna tell Rafe “You got to really knock it out of the park in S3 or you’re done after S4.” I do think they’ll green-light a S4.

Have you seen anything to this point that would make you think “They’re being smart about things”??? LoL Pretty sure it was her who died that Egwene picked up her collar to collar Renna.

Alright. So we got two seasons in the bag & now we wait. We know we get at least one more season. What are they going to have in S3? Let the prophecies of DM roll… here’s mine: I’ll start with what I have high confidence we’ll see and then get into some wild speculation: 1) Dain is going to the the Two Rivers with Whitecloaks for sure. And they’ve made him way more likeable. In fact, I might be on his side & be hoping he beats this version of Perrin?? 2) we’re going to see a meeting of the Forsaken. They’ve set it up, got to deliver and give us: Sammael, Demandred, Rahvin, Graendal, Moggy, Lanfear, and Moridin [I think he’ll be played by Fares Fares] 3) we’ll see the WT split/rebellion & Siuan/Leane stilled 4) were going to see Rand train for once, maybe with Lan, and then go to the Aiel Waste & I think Tear too 5) In S3 Nynaeve will get through her block 6) Elayne, Avi, Min, Egwene, Rand relationship drama will ensue Now some wilder predictions: 1) Moiraine and Lanfear iconic scene will be part of the S3 finale 2) TvThom will be back when Elayne/Rand go to Camelyn & will somehow have a role with Mat. Rahvin plot will move up & he’ll be in Camelyn in power already. 3) we will get Amys, Rhurac, Sevanna, Couladin, and … hm maybe like 3 other named important Aiel that I can’t remember their names at this hour. Maybe even Gaul. We’ll finally get a real Aiel man (unless since the show hates competent fighting men the waste is all maidens…) 4) by season end Egwene will be rebel Aes Sedai leader & Nynaeve will fight Moggy.

I think in anticipation of S3 we should have our own Darkfriend social on here … I really hope Lanfear wins in this turning of the wheel. Best. Character. In S2! And how creepy was Moggy? Whatever else I complain about. Sweet ending … I’ll be back for S3 & will have “I ❤️‍🔥 Lanfear” T-Shirts ordered in advance. Or “Moggy 🕸️ Me” Or “Sammael is my Superhero” Or “Graendal, spank me?” Or “Rahvin is Made you look 😉

Didn’t you argue in last episodes thread that the collar could only come off if the Damane died? Or am I misremembering? That might have been @DigificWriter. Cause seems to me that was indeed the case, oh, except for that Renna could release it if she was a Damane and Suldam at the same time that Egwene was a Damane and Suldam? And there is no book comp cause that situation wasn’t possible. So whichever of you that was, you should go back on that thread and admit to all of us that we were right and you were wrong. It was exactly as we said: A) Egwene did not die & B) Egwene was released of the collar. Cause … they break their own rules whenever it suits them - just don’t think too hard about it 😉 Dude. We already know you can’t be wrong … so I’m not arguing with you. It didn’t make sense.period. They frequently conveniently change their own lore rules for “pay-offs”. Like with the Damane/Suldam rules. Like with the dagger. Like with OP power scaling. Like with Uno being a Hero (which I’m now counting that as a “fake-out” death). Like with Nyn being blocked when she’s scared or angry (which she was neither this whole episode?). Like Moiraine channeling on the beach… ect. Ect. Ect.

We don’t have to keep fighting about that. It didn’t make sense. Who else is ready to join the Shadow? I’m hoping that since our male protagonists rarely can do anything — & apparently Ishy can’t take Egwene — that at least we get Sammael kicking ass with the OP in S3!! In the meantime … #teamLanfear ?

Put me in coach! I have written some bloody fecking brilliant lines for this show that were better than what we got. For example, a much better cold open for this finale would have been - Ishy & LTT playing a game of stones, Ishy moves a piece and says, “I win again Lews Therin.” Lanfear stands behind LTT and scowls. Then at the end of the episode when Rand stabs Ishy. He smiles and says, “I win again Lews Therin.” Some thoughts from the thread, but I’m not going to go back and quote everybody. #1. I think it’s funny that there was actually a debate about whether the Egwene a’dam decision made sense; and some normally very cogent people (I’m looking at you @Elder_Haman ) defended it. It didn’t make sense, but was convenient as a “win” for Egwene. Just like it didn’t make sense for Egwene to single-handedly hold back Ishy & then having Perrin join her with a shield? Ishy & LTT are roughly equivalent in the OP even in the show right? Well they have 8 damane shielding Rand… the power scaling makes no sense. Why not just have Nyn & Elayne link with Egwene & hold back Ishy?? I’ll tell you why…simply because they wanted a big moment for Egwene. And the SL Dagger definitely doesn’t make sense. Even if you say, “Well, we made a mistake last season with having Loial and Uno be stabbed with the dagger and then they’re just fine.” Well - then you can’t have the dagger cut through metal & instant kill people in this season … but not instant kill Rand in this season. #2. I’m actually very hopeful the writing will improve from S3 on … because I do think Harris leaving part way through was their biggest obstacle & they’ve made the best of a crap situation. But Harris leaving doesn’t excuse the fact that Rafe, Sarah N, and maybe they even consultant BS gave a green light to these ridiculous contradictory decisions in the finales of both seasons. #3. Whoever argued we wouldn’t get Ishy back — nonsense — why do you think they did the cold open the way they did & had Ishy let Rand kill him. They even dropped the line about Lanfear that “how are you going to kill her? The Dark Lord has granted her immorality.” We’ll get Ishy back or a body swap (since that’s important for the series). Or we won’t because they do tons of crap like that that doesn’t make sense or pay-off. Like Ingtars arc? Or Uno? Or Fain? #4. Regardless of any of my complaints because of my book love…this was better Tv & step up from S1. There’s hope. I’m not going to read too much into no S4 announcement yet. We know we’ll get a S3 and it’ll line up more with Shadow Rising. So I’m pumped for that!!

So the things that encourage me the most about this season are: #1. the actors/actresses, for the most part, knock it out of the park when they’re given something decent to work with. #2. the bad guys are so much more believable, even likeable, that I’ve been won over to the dark. #teamLanfear #3. the CGI was slightly better than the Video Game quality bad Trollocs and channeling of the S1 Finale. What truly worries me is: #1. Other than the cold open of S1Ep7, they’ve consistently shown they don’t know how to direct/edit good action sequences IMO. The “biggest battle in Tv history” felt somewhat lame with all their quick cuts (even though the lighting didn’t suck for once). #2. it continues to feel so rushed. If I assign my students an 8 page paper & they turn in a 30 page paper, they get it back with a “You have an 8 page max.” If they then take that same paper & just try to cut out 22 pages worth … that’s going to be an F paper even if the 30 page paper was really good. Hard core WoT fans might be pissed… But if you’re given an 8 seasons, 8 episodes parameter — you can’t try to squeeze in everything; you have to write a new story. And they’re doing an “ok” job of that, but still trying to squeeze in too much and give all these winks at book readers. Like the Ingtar stuff. #3. WoT is most known and loved as a fantasy series for its world building and its intricate magic system. You can’t keep conveniently breaking even your own shows rules within the show WoT when it comes to the magic system. For example(s): the Egwene/Renna stuff made no sense. We argued for a whole week how, “If the collar only comes off if the Damane dies…how is Egwene going to get free & not be a “fake-out” death. Egwene becoming Renna’s Suldam at the same time she’s Renna’s Damane??? What? The damane shielding Rand from the ships made no sense. Within the rules of the show you have to be in sight of the person & actively channeling. Moiraine got tired/injured fighting like 20 Trollocs … now she can fire blast an entire fleet from miles away? The Shaddar Logoth dagger can melt through metal & instant kills now? Didn’t last season. The Horn of Valere box is easily opened by Turok & then just set aside and unguarded even though “With this, the whole world will be ours.” Really? But then Loial just has it & they can’t open it, without the dagger? And where did Fain go? Is he corrupted by the dagger or not? In the show it corrupts whoever touches it, but Fain just sets it aside for Matt … just because we need Matt to “have it” but not “touch it”.

Wow. Just wow. So initial thoughts: 1) Much more satisfying Finale than S1. Did not disappoint. 2) Super glad that Perrin, Lan, and Mat each finally got a big payoff/some fighting action where they looked BA. 3) CGI was ok, but did have some parts that were kind of cheesy. 4) Fighting scenes were ok, but too many quick cuts. But this finale was action packed. And I was thoroughly “entertained”. 5) I think my favorite part was that Nynaeve couldn’t do anything. 6) The Shadar Logoth dagger is lightsaber-ish? 7) Egwene standing up to Ishy, love it, was disappointed Ishy didn’t do better there though. 8.) Lanfear is fecking brilliant 9) Speaking of “fecking”. So since Uno is back as a Hero of the Horn, do I count that as a fake-out death? Hmmm … 10) My over on 2.5 fake-out or real deaths hit the over. LoL 11) I was wrong about Fain stabbing Rand, but they wrote that weird/screwed that up … cause a) fain would never willingly just lay down the dagger for Matt & b) in Min’s vision the person had the dagger in hand and put their hand on Rands shoulder just prior to stabbing him 12) love that the “who are you?” was indeed Elayne. Love, love, love that. And that both Elayne and Avi looked at Rand with some awe/compassion this episode 13) Hopper 😪 14) Rand “Indiana Jonesing” Turok and Co. 😅 15) The Heroes of the Horn ❤️‍🔥 16) The Moggy ending … speechless … and hooked. 17) Bayle Domon made an appearance! 18) Lan caught an arrow with his bare hand?? Apparently a restored bond gives him Matrix reflexes. But I actually love it! 19) I’m still a little peeved they cut Gaul… but I did like the Maiden hand-talk. 20) I absolutely knew that Moiraine was going to say, “I could only say that because I’ve always known you were better than me.” 21) I also knew Egwene would get free when Renna was collared. But I was so sure Egwene was gonna drop the line “It must be hard, thinking your whole life that you’re a person, when you’re a damane.” Mic drop. 22) Is it just me or is Moiraine’s channeling technique wonky?? 23) on the other hand, I love Egwene’s chest bump, no hands, channeling … 24) none of those Damane saw a boulder coming at them and channeled to stop it??? 25) I think it’s funny that Loial and crew just show up randomly with the horn. Ok… that’s all I got on the first watch.

Yes, he didn’t say, “I’m not sure we’ll get a season 4.” But one can easily read between the lines… But I’m consoled by … what has been suggested on this thread… it may have nothing to do with viewership. Bezos has the $$ and can do whatever he wants. Including make 8 seasons of WoT just because… multi-billionaire.

Mmm I’m having trouble finding the direct interview, I think it’s on X and I don’t have that. But this short quotes his words exactly.

I take it as not a great sign that Rafe in one of his first interviews post strike made a comment … that indicated he wasn’t sure they’d get a season 4. Hmm let me see if I can find that…

Yeah, no way they’re bringing in a different actor; they’re gonna keep this Ishy & Lanfear & Liandrin & Valda as primary antagonists for the whole series. And next season add: Elaida & Couladin/Sevanna? Funny thing is, they are so much better written than most of our main “good” characters that … in this “turning of the wheel” … I hope they win! 😉 Except for Fain - who they’ve oddly left out, almost entirely, of this season. Which makes it so that when he stabs Rand it’s gonna be like “hmmm, didn’t see THAT coming!” That being said, perhaps a surprise death could be … Renna ? It’s been promised…

On a slightly different note: How many fake-out deaths do you think we’re going to get in this Season Finale?? + or - 1.5 ?? 😅 And how many actual deaths? I think +. For sure Rand. But also, perhaps Egwene … And at least one real death, but pretty confident that we will get 3:

yes, yes. I agree. Moiraine is too tall. 😉

You clearly didn’t read my earlier comment, but that’s understandable, there’s multiple convos that go past each other & it’s very WoT to skip stuff you’re not interested in to go to the good parts. Looks like the Tv show will be the same way! Back in episode 2 Verin said, I will go to the Tower and find books there that might prove useful. Prophecies that speak of a battle on Toman Head, a sword of fire, and the branded hand that wields it. A similar comment was made again - that the Dragon would be proclaimed at Toman Head by a battle in the sky. And then twice this episode, once by Verin and once by Moiraine. So… if casual viewers (or yourself) paid close attention to the show, it’s not random. But I noted that they quadrupled down on a battle in the sky in fire. So they better deliver and have it not be as cheesy and bad as the S1 Tarwins Gap debacle.

I like your idea but I bet you the unnamed actor is Arthur Hawkwing & that’s who Rand, in the trailer, says “Who are you?” to.

Oh. I just had a season finale cold open idea sooo good… if there are an Amazon ppl on here that lurk, bring this to Rafe as evidence I could be useful! 😉 Ok. Opening scene of Finale. Lews and Ishy are playing a board game, Go maybe or a Chess-like game, Ishy makes a move & smirks. He says, “I win again Lews Therin.” Lews laughs. Lanfear is standing behind Lews scowling. Then you hard- cut to Lanfear taking them through the ways. Come on. That’s gold! Riiight???

Alright I want to make some predictions about the finale (and I’m really hoping it’s not the major let down that last seasons finale was - because I went into that one super hopeful!) So here we go:

It’s an easy thing to do because of the length of the series. I remember on my first re-read being SHockEd how obnoxious and stupid Matt was in the first two books. Because I didn’t remember him that way. I’d had 1000’s of pages of Han-Solo Matt and preferred to remember him that way. Discovering that at the beginning he is trickster, buffoon Matt. That was rough.

So I believe all of them were from Verin in dialogue with Moiraine. But the first one was back in Ep2 around the 29th minute… Verin says she’ll go to the Tower and find books that might prove useful. “Prophecies that speak of Toman Head, of battles in the sky, a sword of flame, and a branded hand that wields it.” A similar line was said two more times though I forget exactly where. But then in this past episode at about the 33min mark Moiraine says something like they want you to go to Falme because “the Dragon is suppose to proclaim himself there, bannered across the sky in fire.” And then, about the 50 min mark Verin repeats basically that same line.

Well… We’ve been promised a battle on the scale of something from Gladiator. They’ve quadrupled down on “battle in the sky in fire.” And Rand being proclaim as the Dragon. Theyve set up Egwene for - beating down Renna & Nynaeve going “What the… did they do to you…?” Matt might finally do something (and it won’t be stab Rand…Fain will do that, trust me - watch Mins vision closely). Avi, Bain, and Chiad will show Perrin how real fighters fight… against Whitecloaks? And somehow the Shinarans will randomly appear so Ingtar can have a moment. Rand will sword fight Turok, but maybe Lan steps in to save his butt? Lan actually do something? I’m thinking… If Lanfear doesn’t try to do something sneaky to Moiraine … their writing makes no sense. The horn will be blown. Wait! Why wouldnt Turok blow the horn when he easily opened the chest & said “With this, the whole world will be ours.” Wasn’t this whole season suppose to have the Hunt for the Horn be a central feature? Oh well. We needed time for Lan to read and figure out Moiraine was shielded not stilled. What else… what else…

Well… I, for one, would NOT be surprised if they do have them come back from that. They prefer non-traditional relationships. So I doubt they keep Moiraine/Thom - they prefer Moiraine/Siuan. I bet they’ll be “broken up” for about … 7 episodes. Then they’ll randomly re-explain that Siuan thought Moiriaine was a DF because she said she was stilled & then all the sudden she can channel = she lied. Then Moiraine left with Lanfear = the AS characters will all think they’re DF’s and hunt them. Remember the line “If you are a darkfriend sworn to Lanfear, I will kill you where you stand.” ?? They will probably have Moiraine “win” against Lanfear which will convince Siuan that Moiraine isn’t a DF. And I doubt it’ll be the book way. They’re committed to keeping Moiraine as the main character… which I think is their biggest writing problem… but whatever. WAFO?

Ok, so new bit of info… I know this is a thread on Ep7, but there is a preview of Ep8 out… what do we think, fair game as it pertains to this discussion???

Well… I mean, this is an adaption by a self proclaimed feminist in partnership with Amazon… soooo Im not in the least bit surprised to get Shirtless Sherlock’s for Warders, Male Characters taking a back seat time and time and time again to the females & lines like “We would have been so much better off if you were a woman.” Hard-cut to Egwene OP explosion. 🤨