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S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon


SinisterDeath
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For discussing Season 1, Episode 6 titled "The Flame of Tar Valon".

 

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For discussing Season 1, Episode 6 titled "The Flame of Tar Valon".

 

Reminder:

  1. Discussion in this topic is limited to Episode 6.
  2. If your post is about the series, go to the Season 1 Discussion Topic.
  3. If your post doesn't fit in either topic, search the WoT TV show Forum for a similar Topic.
  4. If you cannot find a similar Topic, post a new one. If you are unsure, PM the moderators for help.
  5. If your post is Off-Topic, it will be moved or deleted without warning.
  6. Finally Be Respectful to each other.
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Running thoughts on the episode - to be updated during watch:

 

  • Very pretty drone cam zoom.
  • Youngling Siuan. 
  • Al Naito finally!
  • Arguably the most childish use of the One Power. Admittedly…I’d use it to pop off can tops.
  • Ooo Dragons Fang. Also how do you burn down a house with noone noticing? Is there a smoulder weave? If so Dwayne Johnson has clearly mastered it.
  • Daughter of the River, Clever as a pike, Strong as the tides.
  • Weird stilted camera work on the top pan, switching from live to rendered. I like it somehow though. I can’t put my finger on it but its discordant nature matches the instrumentation.
  • Reds have the best stank faces.
  • Love the idea that the Tower is weakening.
  • Green Bitch is the name of my car now.
  • Siuan is great. So regal.
  • That line still shows Aes Sedai still feel they are “servants of all”
  • On your knees, ooo.
  • I love the play between Siuan and Moiraine. You really feel they are at odds. Though we know, blues after all…so secretive ?
  • I think we may have sniffed off the “fleeing” reason.
  • Change from the books, Moir healing Mat. Really brings her up in skill. Im ok with it…works better for the “hiding intentions” plot.
  • I love that everyone is all he hasn't channeled, the world doesn't need a dragon like me. Shows they both have no idea what the Dragon or channeling really is.
  • Mashadar giving off Venom vibes. Well if yer gonna imitate something - thats a good choice!
  • Oooo Wisdom burrrrrrrn. Good thing she has a salve.
  • Aaaand the series will now have people complaining about “bosoms” again. Roflmao
  • I like the returning of the rings.
  • Golden eyes ?
  • At this point its obvious from omission. Nyn floated as the DR, and Mat, and Perrin, and Eg. Rand is literally the only one who is treated as normal.
  • The show finally presents us a ter’angreal!
  • On your knees tehe. 
  • I found the Dragon…then a big old to hell with you the mystery goes on. Hahaahahahahahahah
  • Many headed Dragon. Interesting theory about why there are so many powerful people in one place sure. But no, I still feel its a pump fake. 
  • The Eye of the World has been mentioned. Huzzah. LMAO take them all. 
  • Exile? Blah. Just flee. use dem tootsies.
  • Liandrin and a man? Purr.
  • @Elgee Is it strange, Mother…that you and the throne are both the Amrylin Seat?
  • I would like that floor in my house tyvm.
  • The Oath Rod makes an appearance. Two Ter’Angreal in one episode! And an explanation of one. Wee.
  • oof that retelling of her fathers words, emotional.
  • Aww, the backs turn. Rough - prolly feels terrible tho she planned this.
  • Ok waygate. Be cool dammit. Do not let me down!
  • Ok the Eye was given a retelling. maybe it WAS there but moves? Unsure. Or maybe the Aes Sedai THINK that but are again wrong. 
  • Waygate is… pretty cool. Not as cool as I could imagine but definitely scary. Also seems safer since you cant just open it in this telling without being able to channel.
  • Even money there are still Ter’Angreal that can open it.
  • Ah, so thats how they wrote out this Mat. 

 

Overall I liked it. I’ve always been a fan of Tower politics so that was nice to see.

More obvious it cant be Rand fakes. So its just furthering my views that they want everyone to really doubt the boy before he flares up lol.

Edited by CaddySedai
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So Mat remains in Tar Valon... I can only imagine the reason has something to do with Padan Fain and the dagger. Something tells me he's not healed entirely.

 

They mystery of the Dragon goes on. At this point you might as well point at Rand because of how much they're trying to hide it. Many Dragons suuuuuuuuuuure.

 

Siuan all but says Egwene and Nyneave are ta'veren. If you're gonna hint that strongly why not just say it especially since she has the Talent? Or is their strength alone making her think they are key to what is to come.

 

A ter'angeal linking Moiraine and Siuan's rooms. Cool.

 

When Moiraine was speaking her oath to never return to the White Tower until Siuan called her back, I couldn't help thinking "And she never will".

 

Really wish they had Moiraine pull out a leaf when opening the Waygate, even if it's with the One Power. Seems like it would have been an easy thing to do but oh well.

 

WOULD YOU PLEASE LET LAN LEAD THE WAY INTO THE WAYS! IT'S LITERALLY HIS JOB DESCRIPTION!

I know I'm nitpicking but come on. 

 

Weakest thing is the justification for going to the Eye. Incredibly abrupt and out of nowhere. It was quite sudden in the books too I suppose but still.

 

Overall an episode wholy focusing on Moiraine, Siuan, and the Aes Sedai. Was really good overall. Now lets get back our favorites please.

Edited by MasterAblar
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The show keeps getting worse.

 

 That was supposed to be the best episode?

 

 Incredibly rushed at the end. It was almost comedy at the end. Oh we’re off to see the Dark One. … ok then, let’s go. Cool.

 

 Now possibly 5 dragons??

 

Why is Loial even in the show?

 

 Mat left behind??? 
 

The ‘political drama’ was so badly acted… more like children squealing on each other in front of teacher.

 

 This is so bad it is shocking.

 

The dark one lives at the eye of the world now??????

 

 Rafe has taken a flamethrower to Jordan’s work and the story he is telling is childlike and utterly shallow, without cohesion.

 

Edited by Maximillion
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Like I know it was another episode of stuff mainly not from the books and mainly Moiraine focused and changed lots of lore (many headed dragon??? Aes Sedai can't tell a channelers potential? Magic portal pictures??) so people are gonna be super pissed and that's their prerogative. But damn if I don't care right now because I loved every single minute!

 

Siuan was imposing and amazing. Moiraine continues to be a boss (and called Loial "builder"!). Rand drew his sword and was immediately owned by Lan. The ways look nice and spooooky. Egwene's face when she finds out Nyneave is a stronger channeler. And Matt staying behind?? He would totally do that, he spends half the books trying to run away from things only to end up wherever he needs to be. AND THE FISH SAYINGS! Heck yes.

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This episode felt the most book-like so far, and I loved everything. My husband, who is not a book-reader, also says its one of his favorite episodes. He was excited about the dagger, the ter'angreal (portal), and wants to know what's going on with Perrin.

 

Sadly, at this point I can only imagine the folks who hate the show (not just dislike it) would accept nothing less than a page-for-page transcription from book to screen.

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18 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

The dark one lives at the eye of the world now??????

 

It feels pretty clear that they're just flat out wrong about this. The show is playing up the reality-from-the-books that the Aes Sedai don't know as much as they think they know.

 

"Lol let's send these five and see what happens" is pretty comparable as a 'plan' as Moiraine's plan in the books. That is: neither is a particularly good plan and in both cases they are sorta just falling into obvious traps. But again, book-Moiraine never imagined the world-changing reality of the DR.

 

Mat staying behind was a bit of a shock to me.

 

Moiraine's wording of the oath notably differed from Siuan's: while Siuan said "obey the judgement of the AS", Moiraine said "obey the judgement of Siuan Sanche". ?

 

Maigan: "ships disappearing in the west"

Me: "reeeeeee"

Edited by Frenata
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Loved loved loved everything between Moiraine and Siuan. Loved Siuan's backstory at the beginning of the episode. And what a brilliant casting choice with her.

 

At first was shocked by decision to leave Mat behind but upon reflection I don't really see anything wrong with it... it'll help speed up his story line.

 

My main problem continues to be the choice to spend weird amounts on time on scenes that are trying to give the show gravitas but it just comes off as melodramatic and unnecessarily long (like the interminable oath rod scene).

 

Also not giving enough time for things like Moiraine finding Mat and Rand, and how in the Light would Egwene know how to signal Moiraine with a flower in her towel? The lack of linkages really stretches credulity for me.

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Definitely need to rewatch but have some initial thoughts…

 

-Logan is so awesome. Heal him already!

-Fish guts!

-On your knees!!!!

- Really loved how the evil of SL acted in reverse of the taint on Saidin. Some great foreshadowing.

-Seems like channeling sickness isn’t a thing or, at least, won’t be a focus. Also, channeling seems to be more accessible then in the books (or was that just to show how much of a BOSS Siuan is.

-Siuan’s a dreamer now????

-Would really like an actual Ta’veren conversation.

 -Mat peaced out? The dagger still calling to him? So many questions.

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Not a bad episode, not sure I like what they did to the Ways so far, sort of looked like a ruined city in there.  But hoping still the ways are going to be cool.  Since opening the Ways needs the power looks like the history of the Ways will need o change also since Ogier can't channel.  Sadly also another episode where the main characters are mostly pushed aside.  episode 6 and we know almost nothing about most the main characters.  Though they might as well point a big arrow at the True Dragon.  You do notice Moiraine said nothing when asked if she still didn't know who the dragon was.  Curious to see what direction they're taking Mat in,  

 

Wonder why the change making the Eye of The World now the DO's prison?  I do find it hard to believe how bad Moiraine is doubting the Prophecy and things such as the age of the Dragon.  And she can't just open the Ways again to let Mat in?

 

Worst thing about the episode was Liandrin bringing up Moiriaine being out of the tower so much and finding Nyn as if some sort of huge scandal and how quickly Siuan sort of forgot about Liandrin was the one in trouble.

 

I have to agree with others that the Eye of The World dream seemed rather abrupt and hastily tossed out there.  The DO is at his weakest take these non trained people there to go face him, if one is the Dragon well they will know what to do.  Still think it might have been better coming from Loial

 

Couldn't help but laugh at Moiraine's On your knees comment.

Edited by Sabio
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I liked the political gamesmanship. I think one thing to keep in mind is they are doing a good job of having Moiraine tell the truths she want to tell…also, really good deviation from what she was said to make an oath to. She was told to take an oath to the Amyrlin Seat but she makes it directly to Siuan instead. Very clever. 

Also, does it take the one power to open a way gate? Not just the Avendesora / trefoil leaf being moved from the carvings on it? This means a black Ajah or Forsaken are likely what is helping the troop movements of the Trollocs. 
 

a little disappointed Mat didn’t wander down to the training yard. I thought this episode was going to introduce Galad and Gawyn for Mat and my biggest qualm at the moment is Rand is falling way behind compared to the rest of the cast in character development. Even Mat and Perrin. Collectively the boys are the weakest narratively. Perrin should have wiped the floor with some of the Whitecloaks, Mat’s out of the woods now but still hasn’t developed a ton of his skills, and Rand is still kind of bland. Egwene and Nynaeve have had so much beneficial screentime in comparison. All three of lads feel quite useless and it’s really starting to bother me. 

 

Edited by JaimAybara
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Hi all.  Long time reader, long time lurker.

 

This episode had me scratching my head a bit, and while I like the series so far and will continue, my biggest frustration with it has been the extraordinary amount of "new" storyline added at the expense of necessary background/exposition.  I've read the books more times than I can count, but my wife never has, and she's watching the show to humor me and trying to get into it.  She has tons of - in my view - legitimate questions about things happening in the show that don't have an appropriate amount of background.  Everything tying directly back to the books is very, very rushed, and yet we can spend an entire episode on Stepin.  (And case an point, my wife had no idea the bond between Aes Sedai and Warders was Power-created.  It wasn't sufficiently explained in the show.)

 

I knew going in that 8 episodes a season was going to result in cuts -- but I think they're really whiffing on some major stuff at the expense of unnecessary additions.  The introduction of the Eye of the World, seemly out of nowhere, was just sloppy.  In the books, it was fast, but at least had some foundation in the dreams of Ishamael (which haven't been given their necessary focus, IMHO, and should have just been left out entirely at this point.)  Why is Loial there at all?  No introduction or background on Ogier, and certainly not even a whiff of explanation about his/Ogier connection to the Ways.  Moiraine concealing from Egwene/Perrin that Rand/Mat were in the city, and vice versa....?  Why?  I'm starting to get really frustrated.  Holding out hope tho because there are some really great moments.

 

And we'll see about Mat being left behind, maybe he jumps through at the last minute.

 

Anyway, I'm sticking with it -- but for whatever reason, this episode really irked me - as an avid reader of the books.  I imagine non-book readers would have been far less bothered.

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Oy vey. I need more processing time and a rewatch. The Eye is now Shayol Gul? Or believed to be. Not that it'll happen, but they're floating a split soul Dragon? Mat not entering certainly ups the drama, I wonder where they'll go with that. Might be we'll see his luck and show-onlies will be like "he must be the Dragon but he's the only one not there?" I am keeping in mind that book-Mat does always think about running from these things, evading his destiny, it's not a complete break from character, but I feel like the writers are missing his wry-ness and charm, why people like him. I wonder if now that we're out of our detour with the split group and Tar Valon it'll be more on track. Kind of feel like our heroes should have had some encounters with shadowspawn or darkfriends to show they're still being hunted. We haven't seen a dream in awhile.

 

Yeah, my mind is still in the "it's not like the books!" processing phase.

 

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