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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Sarlic

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About Sarlic

  • Birthday 07/17/1980
  1. Ah, good. (Didn't have the book in front of me to check.) Thanks!
  2. @jack of shadows, That was my recollection as well. Was just surprised that the Companion would be at odds with a Glossary entry.
  3. The "Look Inside" preview on Amazon reveals most of the Companion, interesting to scroll through and read. My copy just shipped for delivery tomorrow. :-) Asmodean's entry is revealed, and the closing line is that Graendal was the person that actually killed him. I was under the impression that she contracted Slayer to do it -- Slayer pulled him into T'A'R and killed him there (which is why he couldn't be resurrected.) I didn't think Graendal actually pulled the trigger (so to speak.) Did I just completely miss that?
  4. @Mark D and Sutree -- Think we could get a new thread started about what to read next? Seriously, I'd love to hear some good suggestions, but scared they'd get buried in this thread if we try to change the topic to that. I saw Sutree mention First Law -- that's a great read, very gritty. There are also 2 or 3 outrigger novels set in that world as well. I hope he does a sequel to the series! I also really liked Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series -- starts off slowly but ends up being a very good read. (I tried to get into Shadowmarch but just couldn't connect with it as much as I did MST.) I also liked Donaldson's Covenant trilogies (haven't read the final one) and really enjoyed his Gap Series (which is more Sci-Fi than fantasy.) Also, dare I say it, I recommend Mistborn. Clever magic system, and interesting to read Brandon in his own world. And I really enjoy Song of Ice and Fire, but yes, that can be very depressing. Anyway -- big YES vote here for a separate thread to discuss this stuff!
  5. I 100% agree -- but I see quality vs style as two different discussions entirely. The under-polished prose not withstanding (because I think that is something that could have and absolutely *should* have been fixed) my point was very simply that different writers have a unique voice and style, and I think asking Brandon to try and copy RJ's would have ended up an unmitigated disaster. I think they made the right decision by *not* attempting to do just that and allowing Brandon to put his own touch on certain things. I'll give an example of why this is the right decision, in even other mediums (although, warning, it's a bit obscure.) In 1992, the original drummer of the rock band Toto (Jeff Porcaro) died. Jeff isn't very well known outside of the musical community, but he was an outstanding drummer who played on thousands upon thousands of records. He was understated (blending the drumming with the percussion and bass tracks for an outstanding groove), with impeccable timing, and a groove that I don't think I've ever heard duplicated. (For a great example of an awesome Jeff Porcaro track, listen to Boz Scaggs' Lowdown. Or you can always listen to Toto's Rosanna, which is very distinctive.) After Jeff died, the band realized that Jeff's sound and feel could never be replicated, and to attempt to do so would 1) result in a sub-par copy and 2) diminish Jeff's legacy. So they went in an entirely different direction with a drummer named Simon Phillips -- who is an outstanding artist and *top notch* drummer -- but who has an entirely different style. Where Jeff was understated, blending into the groove, Simon makes his presence known. Seeing the guy perform live, I wonder if he doesn't have a 3rd (or 4th or 5th) arm up there. Toto's sound changed dramatically as a result -- but it was still fantastic, and they've released some of their best stuff (that likely no one on here has heard) with Simon on drums. Draw the parallel to RJ's passing and replacement.... It would not do him justice to ask another author to copy him because such a request would have been doomed to fail. Voice and style are unique, and while at times they may be similar, I think we all ultimately would have been a lot more annoyed by a "cheap imitation" of RJ than we are of BS's work -- with all it's faults. Anyway -- so like I said, I think the cadence/style comments that I made aren't meant to relate to the overall quality of Brandon's work here. The prose itself could have been more polished, absolutely, undoubtedly. But I like Brandon's style (the rapid PoV switches, etc.) I can understand some people having a problem with it; however, I don't think that this difference in style is a legitimate critique of him as an author; it may not be someone's cup of tea, but just because he writes differently doesn't make it bad. (Certainly not saying anyone has said this, but wanted to make the point anyway.) And PS -- I see a ton of David Eddings hate! While I'm on board that it's 100% bubble-gum/fluff fantasy, I have always loved his series -- it's just fun and enjoyable, at least to me (well, the Garion/Sparhawk stories were.) (sorry, don't want to de-rail the RJ stuff.)
  6. While I think the mods should come in here and do a cleanup, I would just like to take a moment to contemplate the fact that someone has offered to open a can of whoopass. Via a message board. Watch out or I'll yell at you in BOLDFACE, mutha ^^%%##!!!!! Moving beyond that, I think that the complaining on here would be MONUMENTALLY louder had Brandon tried to imitate Jordan's cadence and style. Such a thing could never be done correctly. While some of the changes to the vernacular were jarring, I just can't imagine why people didnt expect it? It's a totally different author!
  7. I know, WTF? Having to edit each of my posts, otherwise it looks like word vomit. (Not that it isn't anyway!)
  8. I think BS got the horror right (which is evidenced by the abrupt way some characters made their exits) but agree on the drama and the story arcs, for sure. Some resolutions were very abrupt, for sure. Some of that would have been better handled in ToM. (Sorry for being non-specific, typing from an iPad, but I'm sure we're all thinking of the same things.) I didn't mind the 4th wall stuff as much as others but totally understand how that's would annoy others. I had a little chuckle at some of these things and then just moved beyond them.
  9. Agree. Could it have been better? Undoubtedly. I would much rather there have been more space between the releases of these last 3 to fix inconsistencies and polish a few things up. But quite honestly, there are too many people that had seriously unrealistic expectations. Once the original voice, or creator, of something is gone, nothing and no one can replace it/him/her. A certain amount of anger -- misdirected, obviously -- at Brandon is expected, especially from people that are obsessed enough with a series to spend time posting on message boards about it. :-) There was no way Brandon was going to get everything right, but I think it was the job of the editors to pick out the more egregious issues that most people are harping about (quality of the writing, aside, which is more BS's department.) Those people that are casually invested, that read the series because it's a good story and want to find out what happens to the characters, I think will be perfectly happy with the ending we got. I don't think the legacy of Wheel of Time, such as it is, is really damaged by Brandon's work, not to the masses at large. (Frankly, I think far more people left the series behind during the books 8-10 lull than at any other time. If anything, that was far more damaging, especially since it was RJ himself who let things spin so far out of control.) I agree that KoD was a clear attempt to turn things around and get things focused towards resolution, but that in no way proves that RJ would have been able to maintain that focus and pace, as things had just been out of control for far too long by that point. Edit -- To emphasize the point I've tried to make that the editing team should be catching more flak than Brandon with regard to certain issues --- by Brandon's own admission, he writes by character -- i.e., finish the Perrin arc, finish the Egwene arc, Rand arc, etc. Given that one of the biggest complaints about ToM was the timeline, how is that not a *major* editing issue, given how Brandon writes?
  10. RJ's writing certainly remained consistent throughout the series; the quality of it, anyway. But I agree Sutree. I think part of the problem is certain people are picking this book up with certain expectations, and different people are taking different things away from it. Some people are willing to look beyond some of the issues with the prose because they are single-mindedly focused on the progression of the plot; others are not. (Short of blatant plot inconsistencies, of which there are a few, I find that the "Brandon is lazy and forgot X" arguments to be utterly without merit, since none of us were "in the room" with regard to decisions as to what needed to get covered in the book.) I think primarily people who read the WoT read it because they enjoyed the story and wanted the story to advance, and from that perspective, I think the final 3 books delivered. I have been able to explain away certain inconsistencies that others don't want to look beyond; I'm neither right or wrong in doing so. (For example, the Alanna debate - while sure, there could have been more, I think as readers we can easily piece together that she was abducted by Moridin and held to be used as leverage against Rand in the Pit of Doom. The fact that she willingly released the bond is enough of an indication -- at least for me -- that she wasn't a darkfriend. Myself, I think that kind of thing is fairly obvious if you don't demand that the author lead you around by the nose; now, whether something was "forgotten" requiring me to have to piece that together or whether it was left that way deliberately seems to be the more logical debate. However, we'll likely never have that answer.) I don't think BS is a better or worse writer than RJ; he's merely different. I think, undoubtled, RJ was a better writer of WoT, but that's like the "No $#!t" statement of the century. I think RJ would not have been able to deliver as good an ending to Mistborn as Brandon were roles reversed here. It's just the way it is. Yes, Brandon didn't accurately write certain characters, so the point that they felt off. (I think Mat in tGS is the most obvious example here.) Certain scenes didn't feel like they fit in the story (big shout out to the Rand/Mat scene in front of Tuon. Anyone have a ruler?) But -- I didn't really mind it. I liked the Androl scene; I like his cleverness with gateways. I thought it felt fresh, and quite frankly, how would things get to the point they were in the Age of Legends without that kind of pushing of the envelope to figure things out? My general feeling about the lack of personal moments - I missed them, certainly. Maybe RJ would have included them. But I think the way I saw it is that in this Great War, the Last Battle, the casualties were in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. That's the despair of war; so many die meaningless, forgotten deaths. Maybe I would rather have had that final personal moment with Gareth, or Suian, or Bashere. But I think the fact that we got those deaths the way that we did make an equally powerful statement. Again and again, we come back to it (at least I do in each of my responses, every time I make the mistake of looking in on this thread) -- everyone takes something different away from their reading of aMoL, and there is no right answer (except in instances of specific, blatant inconsistencies.) Also, I think the assertions that the series should have been left unfinished, rather than finished in this manner, are ludicrous. I'd much rather have the closure (which I still don't think I have, damnit! I still keep thinking about it!) than to be living with out an end forever. I'd invested too much time, damnit! And I would never recommend a series of 11 books, without a resolution, to anyone!
  11. Speaking of editors/changes to Jordan's pre-written stuff (were we speaking of that?) I seem to recall some interview, somewhere, long ago, where Jordan said the last word of the series was going to be "time." Anyone think the "but it was AN ending" line at the end of the book was something added after the fact, and that the actual last sentence that Jordan envisioned was the "there are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time"
  12. I think it's unfair to put all of the blame on Brandon, regardless of whether or not his name is on the book. This is a special circumstance; you have a new author jumping into the deep end to complete someone else's story that was developed over 20 years. By definition, this scenario requires a hell of a lot more responsibility from the editors, particularly those editors that are in charge of consistency. If you have a problem with prose, tell vs. show, quality of the writing -- I think that's something you blame on the author. An editor cannot be expected to re-write entire passages because of quality issues. (Perhaps they can request the author take another stab at it.) If you have a problem with characters not acting like themselves, inconsistencies within the plot, etc -- I think you blame this on the editors. But like I've said a few times, I expected both of the above (more the latter than the former) and it didn't ruin my over-all enjoyment of the story.
  13. Wow! What a great review. (And by great, I mean spot-on.) Totally agree with you re: B vs B+. I think the defining statement here is quite simply: Couldn't agree more.
  14. Hysterical!!! hahahah Saying that Brandon gave us a better ending than Jordan could have is ridiculous on any number of levels, not the least of which 1) it's impossible to prove, and 2) is 100% wrong. (how do you like that contradiction?) :-) It's ludicrous to suggest that the CREATOR behind a series *wouldn't* be the best person to finish it. (This is not shot at Brandon; it's merely a statement of fact. The reverse would be true if RJ were asked to finish Mistborn for Brandon!) I think the reviewers that are overly-glowing (a la Leigh Butler's) are off base, as do I think the overly negative rage/hate, calling this book a complete failure, are also. (The very fact that there are people that hate the book and people that love the book is enough proof of that.) I think, as far as pacing goes, aMoL was the most action-packed book in the series. As I said in my initial reaction post, I was exhausted by it because *so much* was happening. But as far as where I'd rank it in the series? Hard to say. Certainly not the best, as that's probably tSR. (On a side note, I've seen a few people mention tFoH as an example of great pacing. Seriously, the I wanted to throw myself out the window during some of that Valan Luca nonsense.) But I digress -- Mr. M -- I'm a little sad that you're gloating that you "convinced" Mark D. to hate the book (I'm sure he could have come to a more critical opinion of it on his own after a re-read.) I don't think that's something to be proud of, going out of your way to take someone's enjoyment away. To delight in that kind of thing just isn't right, regardless of what your opinion of the book is. For all of you that hate it as a failure, I'm sad; I wish you could enjoy it as much as I did, getting a conclusion to the series, despite its problems.
  15. Well, here's what I thought with this. Maybe call it a "showing vs. telling" example -- :-) Merrilor was on the brink of disaster.... and then Moiraine walked in, and the ship righted itself. If Rand walked out of Merrilor not having resolved things with the rulers, I'm not sure he could have entered the Pit of Doom as "ready" as he was. Additionally, Moiraine was with him in the Pit of Doom..... Clearly he needed her there, with Nynaeve, or things could have gone sour. (I'll concede the point that no where were we shown why it "specifically" had to be Moiraine and couldn't be someone else.)
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