tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[Harad the White]

4 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Ishmael says in the books that he whispered in the ears of Arthur Hawking and others, so it makes sense it could be him whispering in Logain's ears. 

Yes, my guess is that Ishamael is Lanfear's partner. We may never know, since there is no reason to reveal that later.

[Morridin]

On 11/26/2021 at 2:23 AM, Pandemonium said:

Fantastic episode, best one so far for me.  The show is really starting to build.

 

Tons of world-building details and foreshadowing:

 

a.  Birgitte Silverbow doll

b.  Full Owyn story from Thom.  Hilarious he thinks Matt is a channeler

c.  Logaine hearing voices from past lives and talking about doing better during this iteration of the wheel.  Some of that sounds similar to Rand's veins of gold experience

d.  Aram mentioning that the Tinkers leave their wagons at 20 and some even take up arms

e.  Nynaeve gaining a new respect and starting to have a new fascination with Lan.  She looked ready to explode during the whole battle.  How fitting that she exploding in a healing rage rather than a death rage.  

f.  Good way to build up tension by making it look like Matt killed that family.  they getting the creep factor real nice

g.  Slower pace, lots of conversations making the show way better.

i.  Love  the different personalities of the Ajahs.  Liandrin giving those reds a great representation, especially with her unethical black ajah leanings starting to take form.

j.  the battles and special effects are still not the best at the end, but the Logaine shielding and Nynaeve healing explosion were all great.  

 

Definitely way more tuned in after the 4th episode.  

 

 

 

 

Agree with most of what you’ve said, but I kind of get the impression they have no idea she’s of the black ajah yet (directors) I say that because of the way she makes a point of saying about following the 3 oaths.? Maybe it’s a double bluff though?

 

I kind of really liked the way they’ve made non readers think bloody hell its Nyneave.. (shouldn’t have any chance of that though), are we thinking the other Aes Sedai knew she could channel? Would’ve liked to have seen a conversation with her of it. 
 

While I love they showed the whole Logain thing, it’s impossible for Moiraine, Lan and Nyneave to have been there on the books, didn’t really like the massive healing thing as came too close to healing the dead.. 

 

Hopefully they still take him to Caemlyn where he can spot Rand and see the ta’veren. 

[Morridin]

2 hours ago, A Memory Of Why said:

Hmmmmm, interesting idea of Logain's voices being a Forsaken.

 

Gentling doesn't cure madness right? So if he continues to hear voices it could be a good indicator if this was some Forsaken shannannigans. If so I'm guessing Ballsy, their "shadows" were clearly made up of Saidin - tainted Saidin with wisps of pure saidin. In saying that, I guess if this was some kind of mind magic that's irrelevant...

 

I also think Logain is unreliable here, how the voices are teaching him so he can do better really doesn't match up with the opening scene of the voices compelling destruction, though I do think it was well done showing Logain fighting the madness and his nobility.

 

Anyone else feel like Logain was listening to something when Moraine shows up to talk - just before he speaks?

 

this all depends on how closely they follow the books with the forsaken, for the first book/period only ishamael and be’lal have got out of the prison. The others get out near the end of Book 2. 
 

Logain never has any mention of the madness spoken about. 
 

the man channeling on episode 1, are we assuming that was Owen or Taim? I hope it’s Owen as Taim goes down when Rand announces himself, would love to see them work that well. 

[Maximillion]

Ratings have fallen by 3% on RT since the 4th episode 

Now down to 79% on RT amongst viewers.

Reading the reviews since the episode it's clear that is driven by the huge departure from RJ's story in E4 which was very much Rafe's biggest departure from the books as he tried to tell his Logain story.

 

[phoenixtrinity]

40 minutes ago, Morridin said:

the man channeling on episode 1, are we assuming that was Owen or Taim? I hope it’s Owen as Taim goes down when Rand announces himself, would love to see them work that well. 

Didn't the male channeler in the first episode get gentled? Sorry, I don't remember much about the earlier plots of Owen or Taim, but I thought they weren't gentled?

[Windigo]

On 11/25/2021 at 11:19 PM, DojoToad said:

 

• Moiraine left with scar on initial healing

My only thought is to differentiate between a regular would and a Trollec/Fade wound.
The books make a distinction with Tam's wound having come from a trollecs blade.  
 

Spoiler

Could also be foreshadowing for Thakan'dar power wrought blades?

 

[CaddySedai]

On 11/26/2021 at 4:56 PM, TheDreadReader said:

We've kind of moved from "the show is not like the books" into "the show is including stuff from the books!" territory.  

 

 

I am truly excited for the day that I come in here after keeping people from each others throats for how "it is nothing like the books!" and then have to keep people from each others throats because "It did a thing from the books and I disapprove!"

 

It is at this point the circle is complete and now I am the master. *slaps self* sorry had a cross series moment there.

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, Morridin said:

 

this all depends on how closely they follow the books with the forsaken, for the first book/period only ishamael and be’lal have got out of the prison. The others get out near the end of Book 2. 
 

 

Aginor, Balthamel

[Windigo]

5 hours ago, phoenixtrinity said:

Hello fellow FF14 fan!

 

I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves (which he can't see) but the "goosebumps" male channelers get in the books plus seeing everyone healed.

 

If nothing else, I imagine it's not common to see a wound as severe as throat laceration Healed successfully.

Spoiler

I saw Logain's reaction the "the light"   as a nod to Nynaeve's later healing of the taint.  

 

[Ryrin]

5 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

I am truly excited for the day that I come in here after keeping people from each others throats for how "it is nothing like the books!" and then have to keep people from each others throats because "It did a thing from the books and I disapprove!"

 

It is at this point the circle is complete and now I am the master. *slaps self* sorry had a cross series moment there.

 

LOL

[Elder_Haman]

53 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Ratings have fallen by 3% on RT since the 4th episode 

Now down to 79% on RT amongst viewers.

Man, you root harder against this show than I do for my favorite football teams. 

[Ryrin]

19 hours ago, Arie said:

Just a general observation, the bond isn't sexual but there is certainly a physical comfort to it. Reinforced by the commentary between Moraine and Lan. 

 

Which, to me, feels like a Healthy Relationship. Sexual, maybe, but there is comfort in companionship in a physical sense like touch, hugs, etc. It's why I so deeply appreciated how Alanna's Warders were just physically comfortable sitting around the fire as they were without there being a sexual tone. 

 

It honestly felt like a teasing that it 'could' be more than that it actual was.

I think they are trying to physically demonstrate on film the bond between Aes Sedai and Warder. In written form, it’s easier to describe.  

[CaddySedai]

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Man, you root harder against this show than I do for my favorite football teams. 

By the way, fellow sports fan. Your favorite sporting club is quite sub par. My favorite sporting club is far superior. Frown in shame.

[Harad the White]

1 hour ago, Maximillion said:

Ratings have fallen by 3% on RT since the 4th episode

 

The ratings are high: "Who believes in those bogus ratings?"

The ratings are low: "It's really lost it's way."

[AusLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Maximillion said:

Ratings have fallen by 3% on RT since the 4th episode 

Now down to 79% on RT amongst viewers.

Reading the reviews since the episode it's clear that is driven by the huge departure from RJ's story in E4 which was very much Rafe's biggest departure from the books as he tried to tell his Logain story.

The RT user rating is usually useless, especially when looking at recently released stuff due to the small sample size, relatively few people actually rate stuff on there and it's very skewed towards the book readers for WOT as a result.

 

A good example of this is Squid Game which was a massive worldwide success for Netflix and was being talked about everywhere. It has only slightly more user ratings than WOT on RT despite having more than 10x the user ratings on IMDB.

 

I may have had some pretty big issues with a lot of episode 4 but it's very clear that in spite of that, the episode did seem to hit well with viewers. A 9.2 score from 3250 ratings on IMDB is really strong and a significant reversal of opinion from the first episode's user ratings.

 

I think the show has managed to find its audience of book fans willing to accept the changes and people who've never read the books.

 

Their biggest challenge now is how they handle the DR reveal because that will decide if viewers who haven't read the books stick around. At the moment the actual DR is basically a flat character who isn't particularly interesting. The question is can they manage to build up to the reveal of Rand as the DR in a way that keeps the viewers interested in what will happen next.

Edited November 28, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[JaimAybara]

1 hour ago, Windigo said:

My only thought is to differentiate between a regular would and a Trollec/Fade wound.
The books make a distinction with Tam's wound having come from a trollecs blade.  
 

  Hide contents

Could also be foreshadowing for Thakan'dar power wrought blades?

 

She wasn’t healed directly after the wound. They had travelled for a few days at least didn’t they? Doesn’t that track with how healing works? The longer you wait the more of a scar is left. I feel like this is told to Mat in the series. So they have a Thakan’dar blade, multiple days before healing, and the other Aes Sedai was fatigued from shielding Logain/was a Green , not a Yellow.

Edited November 28, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Harad the White]

Cinematography

The fadeout from the setting sun over the Tinker camp to the light in the Rand/Matt/Thom barn was cinematic.

 

Some questions:

 

What made Thom compare Matt to his nephew Owyn? Had Matt changed in the short time he knew him, channeled, or cut his own throat?

 

Did the Aes Sedai leave Logain unshielded to fight the battle? Ok, the answer to this is that he knocked out the two, Kerene and Liandrin. Although it's possible Liandrin let him go (taking a chance) to gentle him, as she threatened.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Harad the White

[KakitaOCU]

8 hours ago, Harad the White said:

The fact that the voices are real means he is not. 

If you're new to the series, cool.  Otherwise..

 

Spoiler

Later on Semirhage flat out says that hearing real past lives is a sign of a sharp and severe madness that is almost impossible to recover from.  The fact that the voices are real makes it worse because it becomes infinitely harder to help a person push away from them.

 

[Guire]

25 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Cinematography

The fadeout from the setting sun over the Tinker camp to the light in the Rand/Matt/Thom barn was cinematic.

 

Some questions:

 

What made Thom compare Matt to his nephew Owyn? Had Matt changed in the short time he knew him, channeled, or cut his own throat?

 

Did the Aes Sedai leave Logain unshielded to fight the battle? Ok, the answer to this is that he knocked out the two, Kerene and Liandrin. Although it's possible Liandrin let him go (taking a chance) to gentle him, as she threatened.

I think Thom just recognized a fellow trouble maker in Mat like him and his nephew.  Burying Aiel bonded them.  Thom understood being down on luck and thinking outside the box as Mat was doing.  Remember he tells Rand he spent lots of time getting Owyn out of trouble.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, Guire said:

I think Thom just recognized a fellow trouble maker in Mat like him and his nephew.

Thanks for the answer. But that doesn't seem like it matches the story of Owyn enough to elicit that reaction. Also in that same scene didn't he same "keep him away from the women"? The mother and young daughter at the farm?

[DaddyFinn]

6 hours ago, AshennaSedai said:

 

Also potentially supported by the scene when Logain breaks free. The weaves are a mix of white and black, of Saidin and Saidar.

I thought we just saw the shield bulging out, straining and eventually breaking because Logain pushed hard against it

[Harad the White]

15 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

If you're new to the series, cool.  Otherwise..

I'm not, and, again, in that scene. Logaine refutes the voices. He may think they are his past lives, but, imho, he is mistaken. They are Forsaken.

[Guire]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Thanks for the answer. But that doesn't seem like it matches the story of Owyn enough to elicit that reaction. Also in that same scene didn't he same "keep him away from the women"? The mother and young daughter at the farm?

I think the women comment referred strictly to Aes Sedai.  I remember in the book thinking Thom could be a Darkfriend for a long time in series.  I think his interest and willingness to help may be playing into idea no one can be trusted.  But with book knowledge we know he just is a loyal guy once he decides you are in his group.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Guire said:

I think the women comment referred strictly to Aes Sedai

There were no Aes Sedai in the vicinity. You mean keep them away from the women if they get to Tar Valon? 

[Guire]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

There were no Aes Sedai in the vicinity. You mean keep them away from the women if they get to Tar Valon? 

Yep.