tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[Ryan al'Thor]

1 hour ago, Apoc81 said:

They never  changed the lore. Moraine said they didn't know if it was a boy or girl. Who tf cares? It's a sentence made to keep new audiences in suspense. We all obviously know its Rand, so it's obviously a man. I agree its a dumb comment, but it literally has no effect on the show.

 

Look we are getting a simplified wheel of time. Anything else is unfeasible. The story needs to be cut and combined, or it will never finish.

I'm enjoying tbe show and do not expect a line by line clone. At the same time, they have 60 ish hours to tell the story, way more than a movie. If you take away Elayne's baths, all the skirt straightening, and braid tugging...it should be able to keep most scenes intact. That said I'm just going tk kick back and enjoy it.

[Rand the Plumber]

8 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

If you take away Elayne's baths, all the skirt straightening, and braid tugging...it should be able to keep most scenes intact.

 

And if they are still running out of time, they can cut the sniffing.  Oh, and all of Perrin's "Faile! Oh Light, Faile!" moments.

[flinn]

23 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

I guess that Trolloc attack had no meaning then, because, talk about out-of-focus.  

When the shot is on Mat's "girls" and it just goes up and down and up and down, like they think they are making Saving Private Ryan, and this is cool or special, but it's just nauseating.

 

I've never seen anything so seamlessly combine the visual style of Mortal Kombat: Annihilation with the fantasy screenplay equivalent of an episode of The Monkees.

 

"Rumors of four ta'veren..."

 

I'm sure there were tons of rumors all over Randland concerning the potential ta'veren nature of some random scumbag thief, a girl who just got her hair braided, some boring guy, and an even more boring guy.  

 

 

I like most of the actors, and there were some pretty shots.  

 

I laughed 3 times.  The Liandrin scene, the record scratch Inn entrance, and Moiraine "doing magics".  I don't think I was supposed to laugh at those things, but I did.  

 

Best option may be to lean into the camp.  More Liandrin chewing scenery etc.  Go full Hercules or Xena and they may make something timeless and memorable.  

 

 It bothers me they turned Mat into a thief.. I dont mean stealing a piece of pie off the window sill, but actually stealing an item of value from a person. Part of the reason I really liked Mat in the books is because he was fundamentally a good guy. Like Thom said "he is nowhere so bad as he likes to seem" (or whatever the quote was). Now he is a literal thief. There is the excuse of taking care of his sisters.. well if he hadnt just gambled his money away then he wouldnt have needed to steal. So degenerate gambler and a thief is our new Mat.

Edited November 19, 2021 by flinn

[Joe B]

I have many conflicting thoughts and emotions. It will take time for me to come to to terms with the adaptation.

 

Rafe said they aged up the characters to avoid coming across like a YA show. However, the scenes with Egwene and Rand come across as YA. I watch a lot of CW shows, and that is what these scenes remind me of, both dialogue and music.

 

I just deleted multiple paragraphs and have decided to keep my grips to myself. I will view the show as just another fantasy show for now and enjoy it for what it is.

[Wassup]

I binged all 3 episodes last night.  Trying to keep them separate for commenting in the different threads.  Also, typing as I am thinking, so thoughts may jump around a bit.

 

I did not like Perrin being married and killing his wife.  It had me feeling kind of mad initially.  Probably because I do not see how this will work into his story line later in the series.  There may be more to the story to help him deal with it.  I would expect that to break most people.

However, I think they did a good job with the fight scene in the forge.  I think it was one of the better action scenes overall.

 

I thought it was cool showing the OP being used to rip a trolloc into pieces.  The CGI for that was not good, though.  In fact, it looked like there was a lot of blood sprays added that did not mix well in the scenes.  I thought the look of the OP was good.  I did not care for all of the hand gestures.  Some of them were just a bit too much.  When Moiraine heals Tam, the gestures there seem a bit too much.

 

I liked the farm scene.  I liked how Tam looked the part of a retired blade master surprised by a massive trolloc fighting in a small space.  I got the impression that if he had stayed in practice he would have had no problem.  However, why only one trolloc at the farm?  I also did not like the quick jump to the heron mark on the sword right after Tam draws it.  It was an obvious "Hey look at this!" moment with not understanding to non-readers as to why they would show it.

 

Fain slinking away was a nice touch to give people a heads up that something is not right with this dude.  I liked his portrayal so far.

 

I was not as bothered by changes to Matt's family.  I wonder if they will play up his concern for the sisters he had to abandon.  However, I did not like them making him a straight up thief.  Are they trying to have him justify it to himself because he was doing it to get lanterns for his sisters?

 

Women's Circle business is for the Women's Circle to discuss.  It was a nice touch to explain the braids.  I am not sure what to think about the life threatening plunge into and down the river as hazing, though.

 

I might have a different opinion on things after re-watching it with my daughter and getting her reaction as a non-book reader.

[Wassup]

43 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

...

"Rumors of four ta'veren..."

 

I'm sure there were tons of rumors all over Randland concerning the potential ta'veren nature of some random scumbag thief, a girl who just got her hair braided, some boring guy, and an even more boring guy.  

...

I didn't put this in my too long musings, but this bothered me.  Ta'veren was a term usually reserved for someone like Artur Hawkwing.  It is not a term that would be bandied about in the backwater towns about their common residents.  What kind of crazy stuff had to be going on in the Two Rivers for there to be talk of one ta'veren, let alone four?  People would be saying things like, " The only thing that comes out of the Two Rivers is sheep, tabac, and ta'veren."

[Elder_Haman]

56 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I did not like them making him a straight up thief. 

While thievery is the most reasonable conclusion, we didn't actually see him steal it. It's possible that he just flirted Danya out of it with charm and a sob story.

[Skipp]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

While thievery is the most reasonable conclusion, we didn't actually see him steal it. It's possible that he just flirted Danya out of it with charm and a sob story.

Unfortunately I think Padan Fain's "Will I beable to sell this in town here?" kinda implies thievery.  But we must remember that his thievery is to ensure his kids have lanterns for the festival and not purely greed or maliciousness.

[Arie]

All the bad decisions for the right reasons.

[Texas Grognard]

2 hours ago, Beidomon said:

I agree with you about the shotgun wedding part. But I don’t think it adds anything at all to make a fridged character a DF unless Baz uses it to torment him (and he could just as easily be lying anyway). And I think the kicker is gonna be that Perrin went through with the wedding even though it wasn’t his kid. 

In further support of my theory, I suggest one of two uses for a deceased (secret) dark friend.

 

Baz-Dreams

Padan Fain reveals that she was his contact in the village after he's captured.

[king of nowhere]

This first episode was the weakest of the three in my opinion, but I can see what they did.

 

Wot is a massive world, with a massive story. That's its strenght. But it won't matter if people watch just one episode because they are not hooked.

And so, no matter how you start it, you are going to start wot with something that feels generic. just another fantasy. because you don't see all the details until after you sunk your teeth into this world.

 

So, they focused on the bare minimus. They introduced the main characters. They introduce the bone of the plot. And they put in a big fight scene to try and hook spectators with action and special effects.

It worked mediocre. But the books also had the same problem. Through half of the first book, I was still wondering if I should keep on reading this obvious LotR ripoff. I don't know if there is a good way to introduce wot.

 

I liked subsequent episodes much better.

[flinn]

47 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Unfortunately I think Padan Fain's "Will I beable to sell this in town here?" kinda implies thievery.  But we must remember that his thievery is to ensure his kids have lanterns for the festival and not purely greed or maliciousness.

 Except it would seem Mat had money for the lanterns until he gambled it away, so then he had to steal to replace the money.

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, flinn said:

 Except it would seem Mat had money for the lanterns until he gambled it away, so then he had to steal to replace the money.

He is clearly established as a gambling addict in this adaptation.  This leans into the arc they have set out for him in the show.  Whether he is actually a good person or just destined to end up like his parents.

[matlockman]

Thoroughly enjoyed all three episodes. There were a few things that could have been better, but to be honest most of the new series i've watch over the last few years take a good few episodes to get into their stride and they are trying to condense a lot in a way acceptable to fans (me) and accessible to none fans (the wife) and I'm happy with the outcome. I watched it with my adults son (a fan also) and my wife. She generally hates fantasy shows sci-fi shows and anything where she doesn't quickly warm to the cast. They both loved it as well, my wife was seriously disappointed she had to wait until next week for ep4. I thought she would have lots of questions, but she shut us up when we tried to explain things to her, that we thought weren't obvious enough. She is of the view that gradually unpacking the ins and ours of this world are what makes worth waiting for. We all thought the actors were great and are likely to get better as their characters develop. I have to say, weirdly the thing  I didn't like was the Tinkers were way too drab. More bright colour guys. Can't wait for Episode 4

[Windigo]

11 hours ago, Katherine said:

 

I also get what they were trying to demonstrate, I just don't feel it was done well. I think that is a summary of all of my criticisms..... I am not disagreeing with the BIG PICTURE that Rafe is trying to accomplish. But the execution, so far, is poor. 

I will say that I did not see the scene as anything sexual, and  if  they continue to show the connection and platonic relationship between them, without any sexual or romantic ridiculousness I will be happy. One of the great things in the books was showing several strong friendships whether it's Rand and Egwene (one reason I hate where the show went with it) Mat Perrin and Rand,  or Egwene and Nynaeve, Moiraine and Lan, Several others later in the books with other's too. 

[Windigo]

7 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed. There's something going on there. My working theory:

• Perrin/Laila was a 'shotgun wedding' - forced by Laila getting pregnant.
• Perrin will blame a 'loss of control' for getting Laila pregnant.
• Laila was in love with someone else and turned to the Dark because she was promised an exit from the relationship.

I haven't seen E3 yet - so please no replies that contradict my theory based on stuff that happens in that episode.

 

There is but I tend to think it is simpler,  reading the books there is plenty to build the quiet brooding Perrin, who is afraid of his strength and cautious.  It is an alternative to his later conflicts, a motivator for his blacksmithing.  The books focus more on his living up to Haral Luhan and his apprenticeship, today it may be harder for newer audiences to understand that connection and having been apprenticed away from family since 12. This scene quickly sets up his later  internal battles. (Without 500 pages of nothing happening ?)

[ArrylT]

5 hours ago, Wassup said:

I didn't put this in my too long musings, but this bothered me.  Ta'veren was a term usually reserved for someone like Artur Hawkwing.  It is not a term that would be bandied about in the backwater towns about their common residents.  What kind of crazy stuff had to be going on in the Two Rivers for there to be talk of one ta'veren, let alone four?  People would be saying things like, " The only thing that comes out of the Two Rivers is sheep, tabac, and ta'veren."

 

I would say that for the non book readers it wont cause them any concern.   And since Moiraine is a Blue Ajah and they have Eyes & Ears I am simply going to assume it was those people who send her messages and not town gossip travelling via peddlers.  

[ArrylT]

12 hours ago, ArrylT said:

In the long run Episode 1 will make no difference to me on whether I am going to watch the series or not - I am.  Basically you can say I loved the episode, liked it & disliked it all at once.  I will go into more detail later but here are some brief thoughts.

 

Love:

 

Loved finally seeing WOT on screen

Loved seeing the characters start their arcs & develop.    The scene between Rand & Egwene where Rand just "knew" she was going to become a Wisdom as an example.

Loved the fight at the farm.

Loved the presence of Moiraine.   

 

Like:

 

Liked the action.    

Liked the parts where they could stay true to the books as close as possible.  

Liked the look of the Trollocs

Liked how well Moiraine & Lan worked togetheri n the battle.

Liked the chemistry between most main characters.

 

Dislike:

 

No mention of the Flame & the Void (that I noticed).  

Emonds Field location bugged me.

Editing felt too rushed. 

Lan wanting warmer water.  

The way they left TR differed from the book

No nice mini arc of townspeople angry at Moiraine only to have the mayor shame them followed by Moiraine epic speech about Manetheren.

 

Still Processing

 

Perrin / Laila

 

I honestly think that the pilot opening episode could have been 75 min.   I totally get & wont be bothered that it was 60min.   Just that a slightly longer episode run time would hopefully have allowed for less of a rushed feel.  

 

I wont give a arbitrary grade to the episode.   I'll simply say it was a pass.  It got us off on the journey.   I have every confidence the episodes will improve.   I have no doubt that I will continue to enjoy WOT.  But I still wish the 1st episode, considering the length of time - could have been better.   A little worried that some (say maybe 20-25% of non book readers) people will start off the series on a negative and might not give it a chance to warm up.   

 

Get to watch it again tonight with my SO.  ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so my SO who is a big fan of GOT (the tv series - hasnt read the books) was skeptical about watching Wheel of Time with me - so she only committed to watching 1 episode - although I sort of got her to agree to glimpse the beginning of the 2nd episode.  

 

Good news.    After the 1st episode she was interested enough to keep watching, and after the 2nd episode seems hooked enough to keep watching.    And I know if she likes it enough she'll convince her sister to watch it also.  I've also got assurances from my brother (which likely means his wife will watch also) that he'll give it a go (he wasnt too impressed with the early marketing).   None of them have read the books - to my knowledge - although my SOs sister does read a lot of fantasy so it is possible.  Will be interesting to see how they take to it.   But at least my SO is in for all of S1. ?

 

----

 

So now that I have watched it 2x - and I do not know about others - but the 2nd time, after the "shock" of changes wears off makes it more enjoyable - especially as I can see details I originally may have missed or focus on the interaction between the characters better.

 

 

Quote

Why is Emond's Field suddenly in the mountains? Manetheren was a mountain kingdom, yes, but it covered a much greater area than just the Two Rivers. Rand and Tam live in the Sand Hills, which are the foothills to the Mountains of Mist--and they are noted as living far away from most people. This is just weird.

 

I felt the same way.     In the end I am fine with it but at first viewing it bugged me since we know the map and general layout of the Two Rivers pretty darn good in the books.    I would have liked the terrain to have been better showcased to represent that - but cannot have everything.   With a subsequent viewing it was less of an issue for me, and since I know I'll be watching this again doubt it will cause me much - but still any & all unexpected changes are going to be jarring.

 

Moving on   I am more comfortable with the Perrin/Leila backstory - especially after seeing her position and where her weapon was. and + a certain occurrence in Episode 2 that helps confirm his instincts.   Maybe we will never learn if she truly was a DarkFriend but currently that is my suspicion as well

 

Spoiler

Wolfbrother

 

 

Don't think I will ever get tired of seeign Nynaeve push Egwene off a cliff.

 

I also like it as a sign of her authority - that the WC trust that she knows what she is doing (ie where & how to push a person into a river).  

 

I liked the brief nod Tam gave Rand.  I think it was very subtle but I got the feeling that most of their loved ones, while maybe in shock, were sort of saying "we'll understand & accept you have to leave".   

 

Have to remember, while unliked by many,  the Aes Sedai, especially in an area nominally controlled by Andor, would still be respected enough to have their words listened to by most.   

 

In the end I definitely feel second viewings, and reading the thoughts of WOT / Fantasy content creators is a great way to help adjust to any unexpected changes shown in the series.   Daniel Greens deep dive was pretty solid from a balanced critical pespective.  

 

Last but not least - just glad that we have the show to talk about.   It might not be everything everyone wanted but it can improve and will improve and for me at least it is really nice to have another means by which to enjoy the world of WOT.  

[Wordjerk]

Whew ok. Just rewatched this episode and I have to say it felt a lot better upon second viewing. Still some issues that are irksome. The Nynaeve and Moraine scene still feels weird to me. Rand and Tam teleporting to Emond's Field without the gravity of that journey is a character/narrative loss IMO. Aaaand of course the final scene makes no sense. "You gotta leave with me strangers! Everyone and their families and friends cool with that? Yup, great."

 

That all being said, everything else I wasn't sold on at first probably had more to do with my book brain/expectation than with it actually being lesser than. The scenery was gorgeous. The dialogue was better than I thought (though not as good as it needs to be ultimately) and pretty much everything made sense as an adapted version of the beginnings of this story. Even the abruptness I initially felt wasn't quite as bad as I thought. 

 

So yeah, I'm feeling better already. Gonna see what Episode 2 looks like after a second go round now! 

[jeffreycwagner]

Perrin being married and killing his wife does not work at all for me.  I see no possible way to salvage his character.  

 

Otherwise, it is great.  Few other minor quibles, nothing major. I will just pretend he was never married, seems to fit with the script, so far at least.

[Zaladane]

I'm not impressed.  As in at all.  I'll watch the next 2 episodes though.  If I still don't like it I'll read the books again and say hell to it in regards to the rest of the tv series.

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Wordjerk said:

Rand and Tam teleporting to Emond's Field without the gravity of that journey is a character/narrative loss IMO.

Check the bonus material pictures in that episode. Got this from Dusty Wheel discord(seriously, there's great discussion and very active people who find stuff like this constantly).

 

Spoiler

 

[SingleMort]

9 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Check the bonus material pictures in that episode. Got this from Dusty Wheel discord(seriously, there's great discussion and very active people who find stuff like this constantly).

 

  Hide contents

 

 

so is this a deleted scene? Do we have to wait for The Wheel of Time: Extended Editions to get the full thing?

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, SingleMort said:

 

so is this a deleted scene? Do we have to wait for The Wheel of Time: Extended Editions to get the full thing?

No idea. Hopefully a flashback but hard to say.

[Windigo]

8 hours ago, Joe B said:

 

Rafe said they aged up the characters to avoid coming across like a YA show. However, the scenes with Egwene and Rand come across as YA. I watch a lot of CW shows, and that is what these scenes remind me of, both dialogue and music.

 

 

Ageing them up does not line up except for Egwene (b 981 so 17 in the book),
Nynaeve (b. 973 - 25 in the book ) Rand, Mat and Perrin were born in 978 TEotW takes place in 998 which makes them 20 in the books so the same as the show.
The only thing I see is that we have Perrin being a blacksmith not an apprentice which even at 20 makes no sense.