Cliché Mafia - Game Thread (GAME OVER - MAFIA WIN)

[Ironeyes]

In the interest of maintaining my never mislynched record through a game where every vote has a % chance of hammering, I must politely ask you to vote elsewhere.

 

No really though.

 

Can you explain your scum lean?

In the interest of maintaining my near 50% mislynch record since I started playing again, I must politely ask that you all vote me tomorrow

[Nynaeve]

I'm not gonna be up much longer... I'm gonna go with my gut cause It's just not sitting right with me.   [v]dice[/v]    

[Leyrann]

Vote count:

 

Dice (4) - Nini, Turin, Marsh, Nyn

Killa (2) - Led, Darthe

LedZepMan (2) - Killa, Shad

Shad (1) - Dawn

 

Not voting: Dice.

 

With 10 people alive, 6 votes are required for a lynch.

 

[Leyrann]

Dice is now at L-2.

[Shad_]

Well that's enough votes to consolidate a hammer if we want to.

 

I instinctively dislike the idea of doing so, but it might be optimal under the set-up.  /shrug

 

Deadline is two hours further out than stated in the OP, so we have that.

[Leyrann]

That is correct. Deadline got changed.

 

On Dice's request, by the way. lol

 

Also, I'm very tired so I'm going to bed early, RTE will be around for the deadline.

[Turin Turambar]

I'm on my break but out of time. My vote gonna stay where it is.

 

Glgl

[Niniel]

pretty much. if u have two sides to an argument and you clear one then shouldnt you look at the side you dont have clear yet?

 

But if it´s not much of an argument to begin with? 

 

Why in all things holy would you tie it up Turin? Now instead of a train on me or Killa you go for the 3-way.

 

Makes about as much sense as wiping before ya poop.

 

I don´t get this. 

 

 

Shad - he and Nyn are in a catagory of their own. Nothing so far screams mafia but I´m just extra careful with them. I think the others above are easier to read but I could be totally wrong about that. So this is the "I don´t know" category. Shad feels like he is sitting on the fence a lot and I don´t really get why he wants to vote LZM but I like how he told Darthe to be more active.

Yep, I haven't said much about it and that's a lot to do with it being kind of meh reasoning.

 

No one has been pinging me hard and pretty much all of the low content players have said something that I liked, Darthe being the least of those but he did have one good post from my pov.

 

I didn't like his "^ Ha!" post at the start because it felt like it might be a sort of awkward concession, but that's incredibly trivial and useless to point out, just clarifying where my thought process started.

 

His initial confusion about the Killa/LZM thing was fine in itself, "Throwing some shade around eh Turin?" rather than asking for clarity initially struck me as a potential attempt to preemptively discredit whatever Turin was going to follow through with.

 

At the point of his reads list I was starting to really wonder about his level of posting in general vs something I'd talked about with Adella last game. In that game he posted absolutely nothing game related on D1 (and to be fair he lost internet access for a chunk of that phase) and Adella called him a villager for consistency, siting that he didn't post any content D1 in the previous game either and he was town. I didn't bother to check if that was true at the time because the reason itself was wonky and I was a wolf so I just used it to push Adella. But I got to thinking a full reads list at this stage when most people were necessarily null for lack of posts seemed unnecessary and him being a generally low content D1 player, maybe he was just trying to look invested.

 

So I pulled up Peg + Cat, where he was actually around all of D1, and I don't know what Adella was thinking last game because it turned out he'd contributed plenty. I noticed a lot of observations about the game state (thinking wolves are usually in the lurkers, reading into the building and dissolving of trains as potential distancing, generally looking at events for tells.) and being a fairly independent player with a "let me tell it to you straight from my POV" tonality. Some examples from that game:

 

So, GTH- right now Alex seems town to me. Pushy town. Like that person in your neighborhood that always comes over wanting you to sign up with the neighborhood watch, when all you wanna do is drink beer naked on your couch. Good hearted but pushy.

GTH- as to town I'd say Alex, but that's about it. Scum on the other hand, I'd say the same as I always say. Look to the back of the class. The lurkers. Skulking about like vagrants, asking for cigarettes and roofing around through the trash.

Now, I don't have an opinion on tigs yet, but what I do feel confident in is her wagon. Or more precisely whose on the wagon. Hopping on a wagon is mafioso 101. Which just happened in the space of five minutes I think.

 

So, I'm gonna [unvote]. And lay a FoS on Redd for that bandwagon attempt.

 

His ISO in the present game feels more generic to me. This is a good post, not sure if I like this or if it's distancing, his town lean on you was weirdly bland in a setting where I would most expect his descriptive creativity to shine:

 

"Nin. In her big double post, #124, mentions Nyneave twice in a positive, pro town way. Which is what I'm getting from Nyn."

 

"Player x thinks player y is villagery and so do I" is not an obvious reason to think player x is town. From the style he presented in P+C I expect a sort of "and this is why it matters to me" follow through on a read like that.

 

He has me leaning town for being engaged and helpful, he has Nyn leaning town without a specific explanation why.  He just watched both of us lynch him as wolves D1 last game (and I know he read all of D1 even if he was absent at the time because he goes on to talk about it in that game's DT, and he had me as scum when most of the field was comfortable with me D1.)  I don't think either of us are drastically different in this game so far, and while I've noticed some subtle differences with Nyn and I'm sure there are some with me, it's again the sort of situation where I expect a little more flavor from him comparable to Peg + Cat.

 

I liked "That's a deflection. Trying to nullify his opinion by making him seem unreasonable. When he was on me I didn't belittle his opinion." but was a little bothered that it came a day after the reads list/vote when he would have necessarily read the post he was responding to before posting the list.  Made me wonder if he was retroactively seeking to justify his stance as a thing independent of sheeping Turin rather than calling out concerns as he sees them.

 

A bunch of little things, much of which might be nullified by the simple fact that 1) this has been a very slow game so there's just not as much to say in general and 2) Peg + Cat was his first game back so meta-thinking was not available to him (i.e. he couldn't just think "x feels different in this game" and drop a non-descript read for it because he'd never played with anyone yet).  But it's what I've got.

 

kk out until close to deadline

 

 

First I was "oh, great, I will get an explanation" and then "but what does it says?" and then "sigh, I don´t have the energy to even try to understand it". :D 

 

Sorry Shad. TL; DR? Meta reasons?

 

 

 

Good morning. Just read through what went up overnight, but I'm going to read it again to be sure I understand. I'm torn between the three current trains, since Killa was pinging me yesterday and Dice pinged pretty hard in the stuff I just read. For now I'll [v]Dice[/v] but we'll see how that goes.

 

What about it?

[Shad_]

I'd very much like to see everyone take a stance between Dice and LZM.

 

Otherwise I'm going to consider consolidating to prevent a 10% shot of lynching a slot I know is town and I would wager Killa will do the same.

 

But good luck contacting Dawn.  She dumped an unexplained vote and peaced out immediately.  It's not obvious that Darthe will be around either.  Dunno about LZM but it's kind of obvious which of the two he would vote anyway. 

[Shad_]

*sigh* I can promise you that's coherent in my head, not just me wording at people to fake a case, if you want to take another crack at it.

 

Typing coherent thought requires sitting down and my laptop battery has been wonky, so if I don't give you a tl;dr soon assume my battery died.  Just a sec.

[Niniel]

lol That is okay. I´m just tired.

[Shad_]

Ok, so the gist of it is he had a lot of flavor to his reads in P+C, put a creative spin on things so you could see where his head was at.  This cat looks like a mean SOB strutting in to crack some scum skulls; he's instigative but I like it sort of thing.  He's been more generic in his statements here.  I like this, I don't like this, etc.  Doesn't mean he has to do that in every instance to be a villager, but he had some reads that I felt required further explanation and he didn't instinctively give it.  Namely leaning town on you for your town read on Nyn and leaning town on me and Nyn without much detail after he'd just seen our scum games.  I also thought it was a little fishy that he called Killa out on a post she'd made a while ago a day after he read it/agreed with Turin and voted her, vs calling it out when he first encountered it.  Presumably if town it pinged him on first encounter, because he changed his stance on her to scum.  He strikes me as the kind of player who won't hesitate to call something scummy when he sees it.  My thought was maybe he was retroactively dropping some suss to justify his vote.

[dawnflower8]

I'd very much like to see everyone take a stance between Dice and LZM.

 

Otherwise I'm going to consider consolidating to prevent a 10% shot of lynching a slot I know is town and I would wager Killa will do the same.

 

But good luck contacting Dawn.  She dumped an unexplained vote and peaced out immediately.  It's not obvious that Darthe will be around either.  Dunno about LZM but it's kind of obvious which of the two he would vote anyway. 

Sorry about that. My explanation's the same thing I wrote earlier...I know it's not much but it's really all I have at this point in the game. I'm going to reread some of Dice and LZM's threads and see if I can get a lean from them, but I'm not guaranteeing anything. 

 

I'd say Shad seems a bit suspicious considering how deeply he's reading into something I never would have given a second thought, especially since it seemed a bit too early in the game for that, but that might just be his playing style. It appears to me that here, he's accusing Killa of manipulation but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't, just to make us all think about it a bit, if that makes sense. Is Killa's tone in this game significantly different than how she normally speaks? I didn't notice anything unusual.

 

[Shad_]

Fair enough. I responded with this:

 

 

I'd say Shad seems a bit suspicious considering how deeply he's reading into something I never would have given a second thought, especially since it seemed a bit too early in the game for that, but that might just be his playing style. It appears to me that here, he's accusing Killa of manipulation but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't, just to make us all think about it a bit, if that makes sense. Is Killa's tone in this game significantly different than how she normally speaks? I didn't notice anything unusual.

Manipulation on her part wouldn't have anything to do with it.  The argument is that she might look nervous.

 

I'll give it a quick and proper ISO comparison tomorrow night when I have to actually figure out who I'll be voting this phase.

 

Which doesn't resolve your concern with me digging deep early (it's null but you do you), but addresses the rest. Thoughts?

[Shad_]

 

I don't have a read on her. She's had.......1 post I believe. You could very well be right. She could be scum. I was failing to see how you connected me to her. I saw no defense there from her towards me.

She told Dice he was tinfoiling irt his joke vote on your slot.

 

You can read her post as a pure joke or as a joke with the underlying motive of manipulating Dice's perception of your slot, basically. That's the connection--the "defense" potential, if you will. It's a pretty classic Turin thing to call out, and the playful way he did it vs drawing more attention to his reasoning up front makes me think he's probably town. At least, to the degree that I am willing to chuck out that opinion early in a game where I don't expect a huge volume of information to process and refine my reads by.

 

I think it's unlikely that Killa was trying to defend anyone there if scum, in so far as wolves seldom jump at an early joke vote. Doesn't rule out any alignments, just not something I'm willing to bank an early read on. I do think she came off awkwardly formal in both of those posts, which could just be how she speaks or could be that thing that especially new wolves do where they worry too much about how their tone is going to rub off on people in the joke phase and subsequently adapt an unnatural tone. We'll see where it goes.

 

I'm thinking in retrospect that by "he's accusing Killa of manipulation but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't" you mean red.

 

But read on and I'm very explicitly saying that I don't think that's the case so "but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't" more like just "he really isn't".

 

The manipulation thought was already on the table via Turin.  I am acknowledging it and then explicitly refuting it.  Make sense?

[Niniel]

Ok, so the gist of it is he had a lot of flavor to his reads in P+C, put a creative spin on things so you could see where his head was at.  This cat looks like a mean SOB strutting in to crack some scum skulls; he's instigative but I like it sort of thing.  He's been more generic in his statements here.  I like this, I don't like this, etc.  Doesn't mean he has to do that in every instance to be a villager, but he had some reads that I felt required further explanation and he didn't instinctively give it.  Namely leaning town on you for your town read on Nyn and leaning town on me and Nyn without much detail after he'd just seen our scum games.  I also thought it was a little fishy that he called Killa out on a post she'd made a while ago a day after he read it/agreed with Turin and voted her, vs calling it out when he first encountered it.  Presumably if town it pinged him on first encounter, because he changed his stance on her to scum.  He strikes me as the kind of player who won't hesitate to call something scummy when he sees it.  My thought was maybe he was retroactively dropping some suss to justify his vote.

 

Thank you. Now I get it. I can´t really say if I agree with you or not but I understand what you mean. Could be something to it. 

[Shad_]

I guess it doesn't address the rest in so far as I didn't actually end up doing an ISO comparison of Killa, but my read evolved.

[dicetosser1]

Good morning. Just read through what went up overnight, but I'm going to read it again to be sure I understand. I'm torn between the three current trains, since Killa was pinging me yesterday and Dice pinged pretty hard in the stuff I just read. For now I'll [v]Dice[/v] but we'll see how that goes.

 

specifics please.

[dicetosser1]

i  suggest you all get off me. seriously

[dicetosser1]

what so nobodys here now?

[dawnflower8]

 

 

I don't have a read on her. She's had.......1 post I believe. You could very well be right. She could be scum. I was failing to see how you connected me to her. I saw no defense there from her towards me.

She told Dice he was tinfoiling irt his joke vote on your slot.

 

You can read her post as a pure joke or as a joke with the underlying motive of manipulating Dice's perception of your slot, basically. That's the connection--the "defense" potential, if you will. It's a pretty classic Turin thing to call out, and the playful way he did it vs drawing more attention to his reasoning up front makes me think he's probably town. At least, to the degree that I am willing to chuck out that opinion early in a game where I don't expect a huge volume of information to process and refine my reads by.

 

I think it's unlikely that Killa was trying to defend anyone there if scum, in so far as wolves seldom jump at an early joke vote. Doesn't rule out any alignments, just not something I'm willing to bank an early read on. I do think she came off awkwardly formal in both of those posts, which could just be how she speaks or could be that thing that especially new wolves do where they worry too much about how their tone is going to rub off on people in the joke phase and subsequently adapt an unnatural tone. We'll see where it goes.

 

I'm thinking in retrospect that by "he's accusing Killa of manipulation but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't" you mean red.

 

But read on and I'm very explicitly saying that I don't think that's the case so "but wording it in a way to make it sound as though he really isn't" more like just "he really isn't".

 

The manipulation thought was already on the table via Turin.  I am acknowledging it and then explicitly refuting it.  Make sense?

 

Yes, that was what I was referring to. It seems like you were agreeing with it, then changing your mind kinda suddenly. And I'd hardly call you "explicitly" refuting it. You just said "unlikely" which is an uncertainty and honestly just feels a bit strange, as though you were trying to give the impression of uncertainty to make yourself seem less like scum. 

 

Also, Killa's tone never struck me as nervous. I'm not the best at reading emotions but nothing she said ever gave me the slightest hint to her feeling that way.

[Niniel]

what so nobodys here now?

 

I´m here but not for long. 

[dicetosser1]

so why exactly are you voting me niniel?

[Shad_]

If I was agreeing with it I would have agreed with it, not disagreed with it.  I called it unlikely because it's unlikely.  I can't defend myself against things I never said.  Couldn't as scum last game, can't as town this game.  But I would advise you take my statements at face value and not attempt to read double meanings into them.  I say what I mean and I either mean it or am lying and want you to think I mean it.

 

Agree to disagree on Killa's tone.  She's probably town so you're probably right.

 

In any case, that was very early in the game.  What are your thoughts on everyone else and on my content since then?

[Shad_]

what so nobodys here now?

 

I'm around through EoD pending occasional kid aggro distractions.