Sherlock Holmes Role Madness Mafia Town wins

[Hallia]

Tsuki - Very aggressive for D1, good feels from him, although picking at Chael over some sentence structure when she isn't a native English speaker seems a bit much.

 

X- Not sure, he's involved, and that's good, but I haven't developed feelings for him, you, or dice one way or the other yet.  On page 9

[Hallia]

Tina - The game only had 11 pages, and you sheeped?

 

X - Read one of Des's WoT (Gasp right? XD )

 

I missed where he said 'It's day 1, and we're on page 5, it's way to early to read into things'

 

Bleeehhhhhh.

 

It's a tossup between tina and X right now.

[Hallia]

And y'know, Thane as well.

[csarmi]

Chae's defense of Thane didn't seem weird to me.

 

I asked her directly and I know that's how she actually feels about Thane's "special" way of playing.

 

I'll have a hard time reading her BTW.

[Tsukibana]

You say "special way" the way some parents call their children "special"...

[Xthrax]

Ok, I'm back. I'd like to clear up a few things.

lol is right. you do that a lot.

 

Plain as day - I think X is scummy.

Plain as day - I am only able to think X is scummy, becuase X is on, and tried some ridiculous crap.

Plain as day - You like to take pot-shots, and say that you consider each game on it's own merits, yet you prove the fallacy of that by making statements based on your experiences in those other games... Tell me, why is it safe for you to assume you know how scum will act, based on past experiences, but NOT safe for you to assume how a given player will act, based on past experiences???

Ok-I don't think it is ridiculous crap. I think CS is a miller. 'Cause-maybe this meta but I don't think he will do that kind of stuff. I defended Chae 'cause I think what you gave a soft fos on was ridiculous.

 

 

lol is right. you do that a lot.

 

Plain as day - I think X is scummy.

Plain as day - I am only able to think X is scummy, becuase X is on, and tried some ridiculous crap.

Plain as day - You like to take pot-shots, and say that you consider each game on it's own merits, yet you prove the fallacy of that by making statements based on your experiences in those other games... Tell me, why is it safe for you to assume you know how scum will act, based on past experiences, but NOT safe for you to assume how a given player will act, based on past experiences???

For the bolded I think you are confusing META with TELLS.

 

Meta is something created by the player and as such is subject to be abused by said player. Particularly something that would be town meta. Despo can expound on this I think because he uses and abuses his meta for doing scummy things when town to reduce suspicion when he is mafia. 

I have some suspicion on Csarmi and his claim because he would be the perfect player to make this claim. He does have a history of claiming early and he is following his meta down to posting it in purple and bold. It would be a perfect claim. 

 

 

Tells are things that most players will do (some more than others) as mafia. Most of them are either subconscious or the horns of a dilemma where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.  

 

One of those things is defend both mafia teammates to protect them and townies for town cred. This is something that X has been doing. He defended Csarmi even going to the point of saying Csarmi was basically confirmed as Miller. (he later backtracked from that to say it was just his opinion that Csarmi was  Miller) He also defended Chae and to a lesser extent Thane with the entire "it is too early to cast hard suspicion" line.  

 

I don't think I backtracked. What I said was one and the same. I maybe wrong-but I feel very strongly that Cs is telling the truth and is miller. I sure as didn't intend that he confirmed as in way of cop confirmed but I'm pretty sure he isn't lying. Chae because of Tsuki-initial soft fos of her which I didn't agree with and thought was stretching. I did think it's too early. Thane made those posts but I'd like to hear back from him-it would have been maybe not very long after game started I didn't think it was right enough to say he is scum without hearing what he had to say.

 

Some early X. My vote is over more than the one thing of calling Csarmi confirmed. I had short time and wanted to see what I would get.

Well I don't doubt Csarmi's miller claim. Miller is basically a role that is of not much use for town-so Csarmi wouldn't pull a stunt so. I like Ithi's case on Thane. He does look suspicious.

 

One thing though I don't like is that thing when Des saying that Thane is will induce wifom. Csarmi is pretty much confirmed Miller, so I don't see what wifom or confusion it would induce. I can follow Ithi when she says that Thane throws a doubt on the validity of the claim but where would wifom come? Other than people unfamiliar with a Miller-I don't see how.

Des if you could clarify?

BOLD: Csarmi wouldn't pull a stunt. "mafia would NEVER do that" There has been a bunch of this stated in different ways. I don't like any of it TBH.

Italics: Thane is suspicious? but it is only page 4, LOL. 

The WIFOM is the claim. If he can not be verified as town then he will always be questionable. I think what Despo is getting at is the same thing Ithi was saying in that Thane was going back and forth about if he was believing the claim in such a short period of time. Despo will surely tell you what he means later however.

 

 

 

I'm Thaddeus Sholto, Town Miller.

Whaaaaaaat.

 

claiming that early Csarmi?...... odd....

Scuuuuuuummy

 

@Despo: "Csarmi aint exactly one to use a gimmick to hide behind as scum, and Ithi mindmelded hardcore."

What do you mean?

@Ithi: I like your points against Thane. The problem is that I have seen him play just like this three times in a row as town. He semms to have a knack of saying the most unlikely and anti-town sounding stuff as town. I think he sounded scummy the one time he was scum too (Mass Effect).

Claiming miller D1 Post 1 if your not a miller is kinda gimmicky and reminds me of when Darthe claimed scum D1 to rile people up/get it going. You dont seem the kind of person to do that especially with the large risks it entails D1. So yeah I think your town, and Thanes being very sketchy for it only being Page 4.

 

Like you said page 4. I dunno, isn't too early to be categorizing someone as too sketchy on just page 4? If it was a little more, then ok fine. This is the problem I'm having-if there was a little more discussion and Thane's stance on that, then I think a judgement could be made.

 

Earlier X said that Thane was suspicious and that Ithi made a good case against him. Now it is "too early" for judgement. When do we start to actually follow up on our suspects? This just feels like stalling. I don't know why any town player wants to delay having hard stances taken on players and letting them defend themselves.

 

 

Lenlo, I'm not talking about you. I'm using that to confirm what I'm saying about it being too early

X immediately backs off of thinking Lenlo has done anything wrong. It just looks odd to me. 

 

 

 

So X has defended:

 

CSarmi: He wouldn't fake claim as mafia. Even calling him nearly confirmed Miller (then backing off that to say he meant that he believed Csarmi's claim)

Confirmed =/= I believe

 

Chae: giving the benefit of the doubt in the phraseology issue. 

 

Thane: I am suspicious of Thane becomes "it is too early to cast hard suspicion"

 

Lenlo: Chided him for being too quick to judge and then gives him all clear. 

Bold-I don't think CS would pull. Mafia would do it-you're right. But I don't think he is.

I said Thane is suspicious. I said that it is too early to call someone scum. Look at the one above this. I'd have like to hear his side before calling him scum.

I get the part about wifom-thanks.

 

Italics-I said that he was suspicious and Ithi made a good case. But I think that we should hear what he had to say. It's not stalling, I'd like to hear both sides before making a call.

Underlined-I didn't back off because I wasn't on him. I wasn't talking about him-used his words to illustrate what I said.

@ Thane : why do you think Tina is mafia ? she had almost not posted when u wrote that.

 

 

I think Ithi's post here is interesting : it looks like she's teaming with him Turin. X should not be ok with Turin post... but Ithi is not saying anything to Turin.

@ Ithi, are you ok with some half assed parrotting ? if not, why didn't u react towards turin ?

 

 

@ Tsuki you is being mean and aggressive

 

you are using stuff about my english, when everybody knows that i talk french in the first place.

building a case on this is sooo big, that i'll say you are town, for now

 

Otherwise, i think that Lenlo stays shallow ... and not really committal. [v] Len [/v]

 

I note that Charis promised us read and .. well nothing came yet.

 

Dawn appeared and noted only the fact that Csarmi claimed early but said nothing else...

 

X made a nice job at defending me. so nice, that i find it a bit suspicious. Also i see a lot of info about his schedule and what he's doing, etc. Makes me think he wants to give excuses.

I have no problem with the rest of Tsuki's case-just his first fos. Also I call nonsense. Really-that's what you're saying? That's really stretching-I really had to make a trip and thought it would be basic courtesy to inform the people playing.

 

aww CSarmi - you could have asked me that you know - but I'm interested to see what Turin says.

@ Chae - yup, Turin did a half assed parroty case on X - when he eventually gave reasons. I generally store up stuff on him for a day or so - because he can be tricksy. If he's still alive by D3 I've usually got him figured out.

I asked X about his opinion on Turin, because he was just numb to Turin's vote - I found that odd - especially when he quoted the actual vote. Then he was all, but Turin gave reasonable reasons so meh, and then Turin gave rubbish reasons so grr. And then gone.

Actually not that-I didn't think Turin had actual case.

Alright caught up. Doctor's visit went great btw!!! The little fetus looks like a kidney bean, so freaking amazing!

 

 

Unfortunately, will still be ~ three months before we know the sex.

 

 

Well I don't doubt Csarmi's miller claim. Miller is basically a role that is of not much use for town-so Csarmi wouldn't pull a stunt so. I like Ithi's case on Thane. He does look suspicious.

 

One thing though I don't like is that thing when Des saying that Thane is will induce wifom. Csarmi is pretty much confirmed Miller, so I don't see what wifom or confusion it would induce. I can follow Ithi when she says that Thane throws a doubt on the validity of the claim but where would wifom come? Other than people unfamiliar with a Miller-I don't see how.

Des if you could clarify?

 

Turin already pointed this out, but yeah Csarmi aint even close to being confirmed Miller in any way. Major FOS for potential TMI slip

 

 

I got a light town read on Tsuki for his off the cuff reads in his first post, seemed too casual to come from scum!Tsuki.

 

Chael otoh can go in the scum pile with Thane.

His off the cuff reads, really? His first post was that he was the first one to walk into Baker Street. His second one was where he IMO soft fossed Chaelcea for her word usage. At the bottom of the post he said that, Ithi came guns blazing, You were you, I was unknown and it was too early for Dice. Those were his 'reads'. How something can be read into, I don't get. Those were just a portrayal of what happened so far. How? 

 

 

They were off the cuff in that he gave quick casual description of what he had seen thus far, that kind of casual reaction early in a game is more difficult for scum to fake. His recent aggression also gives me town vibes (including his scum read of you)

 

 

BTW, soft defense of Chels noted.

 

I never understand why on day one people wanna defend all over the place, rather than attack.

Like you said its day one, we are one page 5. I think it's way to early to read into things

 

 

The 'ol "it's too early to start scumhunting" trap that newbscum fall into so often, lol

 

 

[V] X [/v]

How is csarmi confirmed miller?

Why would you claim miller? Miller is a negative role-one that could be lynched or killed very easily. Miller is a role that causes confusion, so it's lynched early to avoid it. Why would you claim a role that is so-that is why I believe him. And I've seen CS play, I don't think he's the type to pull that kind of stunt.

 

 

This doesn't in any way explain how he could be confirmed, you explaining why you believe his claim is a far cry from saying he's confirmed. Not buying it.

 

Tsuki has something to go on whereas I don't see where Turin is getting at. I don't see what he is standing on. I already gave my reasoning against Tsuki. I don't really see much for this to go on.

 

This completely proves the point Ithi was making- that you didn't immediately question Turin's motives for voting you... yet you immediately respond and make it seem like you're half-fosing him or something. Reacting to something far after the fact because someone points out your lack of a reaction is incredibly scummy.

Firstly-congrats Des.

 

Basically what I said was that I strongly believe that CS is telling the truth and not lying. I said that I don't think he's confirmed as in cop finding but I strongly believe. 

I understand the off-cuff thing. I don't know if you get what I'm saying but when I meant he's confirmed-I strongly believe him to be. I get that it's a wrong usage of words but what I said is what I mean. Like I said-I'd like to hear someone else side before I make a call. I think they maybe suspicious but I will not they are scum until I hear their side. That's what the too early is. I already said what I meant by not questoning Turin-so that's it.

[csarmi]

Wary of Turin pushing that there could be exactly one VT. Sounds like a good way to mislynch all but one of the vanillas.

[Myndrunner]

I'm sorry.

 

I truly can't remember what people do.

 

I used to be quite good at poker actually. You can be a good judge of tells without remembering that x y and z did this last time.

 

Besides - I've always played like this and I usually manage fine.

 

I've no real interest in remembering what people do or did. That would require me to make an effort to 'get to know' them :)

[Ithillian Turambar]

Wary of Turin pushing that there could be exactly one VT. Sounds like a good way to mislynch all but one of the vanillas.

I think I said it first - so strange that you would suspect Turin and not me. It is quite a standard thing btw.

 

Role Madness will have 1 true vanilla Town.

 

If there's someone else with it then one of them is lying.

[csarmi]

I didn't realise you said it first.

 

Still BS.

[csarmi]

I'm obviously not experienced in RM games. But that'd be a really poor way to design games.

[Turin Turambar]

Is why it is called role madness. Everyone has a special unique role. Even VT is a special unique role.  Interesting that you didn't know that. 

 

I wonder who else might not have known that. If a mafia team all didn't realize it then they might think it was safest to claim vanilla to prevent getting cc'ed. 

 

Thane Why would you think that the specific roles you mentioned were in the game. I mean GF on a mafia team would be expected in just about any game. JOAT is a fairly uncommon role, and 3rd party is fairly common. Maybe not multiple ones however. 

[Turin Turambar]

X, who do you think is actually mafia?

[Hayl3y]

@ Tsuki ; i defend people when i think that they deserve it.

 

In this case, i do think Thane is not mafia... i hope i can read him well. If i am wrong, then i will refuse to cook him steaks next time he demands it. Period.

 

 

now : can someone answer my question ?

is it possible for someone as town or third party to have ideas about other people roles ?

[csarmi]

Probably. But now is not the time to talk such things.

[Turin Turambar]

Anyone can have ideas about other players roles. There are roles that get setup information from the MODS either via asking questions or just receiving random bits here or there. 

 

How does that jive with Thane claiming VT? in order for him to have extra info via his role he would have to be lying about being vanilla. If he is VT like he says then he shouldn't have any information about anyone else. pushing this line of thought looks like you trying to set him up to be able to claim oracle or something and say the VT claim was a ruse should he get cc'ed (most likely by Dice). 

[Myndrunner]

@ Tsuki ; i defend people when i think that they deserve it.

 

In this case, i do think Thane is not mafia... i hope i can read him well. If i am wrong, then i will refuse to cook him steaks next time he demands it. Period.

 

 

now : can someone answer my question ?

is it possible for someone as town or third party to have ideas about other people roles ?

 

@ Tsuki ; i defend people when i think that they deserve it.

 

In this case, i do think Thane is not mafia... i hope i can read him well. If i am wrong, then i will refuse to cook him steaks next time he demands it. Period.

 

 

now : can someone answer my question ?

is it possible for someone as town or third party to have ideas about other people roles ?

 

Chae, who are your top 3 scum reads?

[Hayl3y]

i have no idea what oracle is (so if someone can explain it could be nice)

 

and for now beside Lenlo, i don"t have "scum" reads.

 

I pointed stuff that i found weird but it is not enough for me to tell that those people are scum. I gave town reads a couple of posts ago. People who are not read as being town for me are suspicious.

[Tsukibana]

@Chels: that's just it - one day one, NO ONE deserves being defended. I could see if he had 4-5 votes, and you really had a town read on him, but you started on page 3, when he had ONE vote (as much as Ithi wishes she could claim all three :P).

[Ithillian Turambar]

Why is Len mafia?

 

Why did you say "scum"? Why put the word inside speech marks like that?

 

Because when speech marks are used like that it means you know that what you're saying isn't real.

[Hayl3y]

i am his wife ... it pleases my ego to believe  i can read him

 

now... let's agree on not agreeing on this one lol

[Turin Turambar]

Oracle on mafiascum

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oracle

[csarmi]

Tsuki - first of all defending people is neither stupid nor scummy, secondly if you wanna blame people for that, why not blame ME?

[Thane Vakarian]

Is why it is called role madness. Everyone has a special unique role. Even VT is a special unique role.  Interesting that you didn't know that. 

 

I wonder who else might not have known that. If a mafia team all didn't realize it then they might think it was safest to claim vanilla to prevent getting cc'ed. 

 

Thane Why would you think that the specific roles you mentioned were in the game. I mean GF on a mafia team would be expected in just about any game. JOAT is a fairly uncommon role, and 3rd party is fairly common. Maybe not multiple ones however. 

even though i'm unexperienced in a role madness game, i have encountered JOAT before and i would highly suspect roles like that in such a game. And having one on each side would balance things.

[csarmi]

@Chae - so what about Len? Anything in particular stands oit?

 

I can't iso from phone.