Who *are* you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

[skyfoo]

Hey Y'all.  Just finished my second read of MoL.  The first time through I was tired from a marathon read and didn't even note Nakomi's moment in MoL. I just thought it was Moiraine. It's intentionally brief and vague. 

 

After studying and thinking about the moment, there's no doubt it is Nakomi.  Who she is? - The 2nd Dragon seems incorrect to me, as does the Tigraine theory. 

 

Reading the scene in ToM, I thought she was a ghost - a ghost of a wise one with a mission from the pattern. 

 

I love love love the idea of Nakomi as Harriet.  This feels right to me. 

 

But for added kicks, here's a new idea - what if Nakomi is Ilyena reborn and with her memory returned.  The women around the Dragon are strongly connected to him.  Rand's breakthrough on Dragonmount was realizing that Ilyena had been reborn.  The fact that she married Lews Therin and was chased by Demandred says she was likely a channeler. Perhaps she had a further part to play.......

[Arran]

I think one reason for not telling us is that it's probably going to be included in the encyclopedia. There's supposedly going to be a lot of info in there which wasn't even in the books, especially concerning AMoL.

 

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of her. The coals on the fire and the food that randomly appears seems pretty similar to what Rand does with his pipe, possibly just willing them into existence. So this could mean that she's a being similar to Rand, or that Aviendha was in T'A'R and Nakomi is a dreamwalker. She did close her eyes and relax after all.

 

As for her performing the bodyswap, I'm not sure that she performed the actual action. Rand hears her say "Yes, that's good. That is what you need to do." Now we know Nakomi can't channel, unless she was masking the ability from Aviendha, because the actual sentence stating this was a bit too straight forward and matter of fact for my liking. But yeah, she can't channel so far as we know, so it's not like she could have shown anyone a weave of how to perform the bodyswap, so what exactly was she saying and who was she saying it to? But thinking on it, if she was masking her ability she would have just performed the task herself. How was the bodyswap even possible in the first place since the only evidence we've seen of an actual bodyswap was performed by the Dark One? I wonder if there are any clues in the scenes where we first see Osan'gar and Aran'gar, or maybe Cyndane.

 

The only thing that slightly bothers me is the fact that the only reason she is in the series is because of something he found deep within Jordan's notes. This leads me to believe that the note itself wasn't that important and that she was added kind of as an afterthought. I just think that our answer as to who she is and what she actually does is going to be a lot less spectacular than we're making it out to be.

 

There's a lot of conflicting points and not enough information surrounding her character so it's very difficult to draw any logical conclusions.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Arran

[Steve J McQuade]

Nakomi only appears in some instances to provide 'advice' but the way she provides such advice is obviously beyond the simple use of the one power.

Who is Nakomi?

The answer is surprinsingly simple.

Nakomi is in the 3rd age that just ended what Rand Al Thor is to the 4rd age that is now beginning.

Nakomi was born on the 2nd age, she was Ta'veren and it was her actions in the pattern of the age that bound her and become part of the 3rd age itself.

Think about it... she brings up stuff just by thinking it so just like Rand can do now.

 

It was Nakomi who swapped Rand and Moridin's minds and with that her job is done in the 3rd age.

Now its Rand's turn to watch over the 4rd age, he will be an agent of the pattern, going were and if he is needed.

[TLHansum]

Nakomi only appears in some instances to provide 'advice' but the way she provides such advice is obviously beyond the simple use of the one power.

Who is Nakomi?

The answer is surprinsingly simple.

Nakomi is in the 3rd age that just ended what Rand Al Thor is to the 4rd age that is now beginning.

Nakomi was born on the 2nd age, she was Ta'veren and it was her actions in the pattern of the age that bound her and become part of the 3rd age itself.

Think about it... she brings up stuff just by thinking it so just like Rand can do now.

 

It was Nakomi who swapped Rand and Moridin's minds and with that her job is done in the 3rd age.

Now its Rand's turn to watch over the 4rd age, he will be an agent of the pattern, going were and if he is needed.

 

Love the idea behind this.  Don't think its what RJ had going, but its got a nice feeling to it.

[Steve J McQuade]

 

Love the idea behind this.  Don't think its what RJ had going, but its got a nice feeling to it.

Just following the logic and the clues...

 

Nakomi appears out of nowhere in the waste and created stuff out of nowhere...

Nakomi name is an 'ancient' name... maybe from an aiel of the previous age long forgotten...

Nakomi appears before Rand to ensure he goes on, no longer Ta'veren but her replacement for the next age...

 

And the Wheel of Time turns again and again and again...

[clu7ch]

Skyfoo has it i think. Maybe. It's one of those things.

I do believe Nakomi may be in some way - Illyena. It has a proper fit to it - but at the same time doesn't. Rand's epiphatree moment was unique to the series and it's practically ridiculous to assume others' were given such insight into past lives. Furthermore - this creator-avatar thing is dribble. The creator hasn't been involved at all through the books, why start now? Just squelch it. I know ya'll want God to be there, but he's pretty much outta the loop. THE CAPS weren't him either. It's the dark one or LTT/Rand yelling, thats all it is. (We absolutely know this too, so plox don't argue. The Rand vs. Dark one fight was hard as crap to track the first time through because they both got to yell. Rand should have gotten italics.) 

 

Verin died, also. Doubtful that she'd be transmigrated for the benefit of the greater good. 

 

Not ruling out her being one of the founding Jenn's - but it's a hard one to prove. I like that idea though, the whole 'end of the AoL' thing is fascinating to me. Like how callandor was made, the eye, rhuidean, etc etc. 

 

I'm also confident that the body swap was due to the balefire snaffoo. Rand had old like memories, I figure he'd have thought to try it to save his own life if it was a weave thing. 

 

Also, as for the 'other dragons' thing. We have only documented proof of Rand Al'Thor and Lews Therin as being spun out incarnations of the Dragon's soul. I like to look at it way deeper and say they're the ONLY two who have been the dragon. The whole, we've been fighting forever and will be forever thing seems like the forsaken trying to throw religion on it, they have no clue about pre AoL dragons, and Rand pretty well likely halted the need for the Dragon to be spun again to face the shadow. 

 

Thus, the dragon is simply a hero of the horn. Spun out extremely selectively for the greatest purpose. (I do believe this was confirmed too, by RJ or BS) so I doubt that the second age had a dragon, and I honestly really doubt that Nakomi is a lady dragon. Sorry 

Edited February 3, 2013 by clu7ch

[Dalton Moser]

My theory is that with the dead walking, that Nakomi was Rands Mother(Tigrane) as she would apear at her age.

[Suttree]

The whole, we've been fighting forever and will be forever thing seems like the forsaken trying to throw religion on it, they have no clue about pre AoL dragons, and Rand pretty well likely halted the need for the Dragon to be spun again to face the shadow.

 

Maybe im misunderstanding your point but how on earth did Rand halt the need for the Dragon Soul to be spun out again? Rand and LTT share the same soul. Per RJ it is the soul designated as the Champion of the Light. "Dragon" was merely a title given to LTT. It has been confirmed that this is an eternal struggle and that Rand and Ishy's soul are linked/spun out together a la Birgitte and Gaidal. The Champion of the Light will certainly be spun out again over and over. Both Herid Fel and RJ told us how it works.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a make-shift manner. But following this line the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again. Unless of course, the Dark One breaks free in which case all bets are off, kick over the table and run for the window.

It has also been confirmed that Rand's souls is spun out in other ages in a "non dragon" incarnation to fit the needs of that age.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Suttree

[clu7ch]

I respect that, and don't mean to offend. I simply see a certain type of finality in all cyclical systems. It always goes around and around until it doesn't. That doesn't mean that the pattern is destroyed, rather a new cycle is born, out of necessity. Rand could have completely destroyed the dark one, his PoV showed us that, what would have happened then? His creations probably would have come to pass, as he imagined. Then we'd have a new cycle. The champion of the light would possibly be spun out- but only if he had a need to. LTT and Moridin aren't as linked as you'd believe, otherwise we'd have massive conflicts with the two of them sporadically over the course of 2 ages, with Ishy/Moridin only partially sealed. 

 

Of course, you can say that 'maybe the dragon was spun out and didn't do anything, just laid low' 

 

but.

 

Rand had no clue what/who he was, he didn't get a choice, I assume the shadow would want very much to kill the Champion of the light - and they're kind of rambunctious when they get momentum. We'd have noticed it. 

 

You have to remember, we have Moridin saying the two are linked. He's bonkers, if not well collected and sane LOOKING, he's nuts and wants to be a popular kid. 

 

And we have Rand in his dreamshard saying 'screw off, I'mma show you how i roll, without you.' 

 

As for the who eternally spun out thing, I haven't seen that quote. I'm sure it's possible - and I'll resend my theory if it came from RJ, but I'd think that would be eternally exhausting to be constantly fighting some guy, over and over again. G/B sometimes get spun out to have a family and rest, and be at peace. Rand and moridin aren't having a family. I hope. 

 

The first big long post on the cyclical nature thread nailed an interesting point, I can't redo his post, but essentially, the DO exists outside of time, and whenever there is a confrontation at the bore, him - versus the champion, we see the events lead towards another age. Either by a patch, or him touching the world, but Rand's solution wasn't defeating him - however, it is safe to say that what happened in the end of the book has NEVER happened before. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 'how' there - as it was basically callandor that saved the world, and it's construction is surrounded in bads. You can only make a sa'angreal if you have the means to use the powers it uses. IE a circle of men/lades blah blah, but this one - the creators had intimate knowledge of the True Power. I can only claim that as authorial oversight, otherwise a badguy who had TP access broke their oaths, which we know as impossible for channelers. (The only other option i have is that Lanfear created the sword. She was the one who drilled the bore, and one might assume, was one of the first to have access to the TP, maybe before she realized the evil nature of the DO, and before she turned. Meh, dunno. 

 

What i'm getting at, up until this point, the wheel may have been on a specific cycle. It's changed now.

 

Golly this got off track. damn you nakomi. . 

Edited February 3, 2013 by clu7ch

[Cybertrolloc]

Back the first paragraph up plz Suttree. Was my understanding from interview crap that Dragon = CoL if spun out, but others can be CoL. Don't remember anything about eternal struggle v Ishy except RJ saying "you believed Ishy?!?!"

[clu7ch]

that makes more sense in the long run. 

 

Edited February 3, 2013 by clu7ch

[Barid Bel Medar]

Clu7ch: There is a quote that says Rand and Ishamael's souls are linked. However, it is ambigous. They are indeed linked, and often spun out together - however, the nature of their relationship in each turning is not specified. While the obvious assumption is that they are spun out each time as the Dragon and his Shadow counter, it may not be the case. They may work together in some turnings. We know their souls aren't good and evil by default - Ishamael's soul isn't permanently evil. Evidence of this being that the Dragon has turned to the Shadow in some turnings of the wheel. It may be that in another, Ishamael's soul is a force for the Light. 

 

 

INTERVIEW: 2011

Twitter 2011 (WoT) (Verbatim)

ANDREW J. PARKER (25 APRIL 2011)

Can you settle a debate? Will Rand's soul be the Light's champion in every Age, or could it ever be someone else?

BRANDON SANDERSON (25 APRIL 2011)

I believe that Ishamael implies in the books he and Lews Therin have fought thousands of times.

BRANDON SANDERSON

So at least one major character seems to believe it's always Rand. Whether he's right or not is another question.

FOOTNOTE

Brandon is reported as having said on tour that Ishamael's and Rand's souls are often woven together in the Pattern, somewhat like Birgitte and Gaidal.

 

 

 

I'm afraid I couldn't find the interview in which Brandon confirms this, however, Terez is a reliable source for quotes. Someone will probably have to find the actual quote itself. 

 

Cybertrolloc: Couple of interviews to this, Basically, Ishamael is an untrustworthy madman, but he did tell the truth in some instances. Also, he does confirm that there are other Champions of Light similar to Rand's soul. It doesn't have to be Rand to save the world all the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Feb 26th, 2003

tarvalon.net Q&A (Verbatim)

QUESTION

Was Ishamael lying when he told Rand that the hero of the Light had turned to the Shadow in other lifetimes?

ROBERT JORDAN

No he was not. Even those who lie sometimes tell the truth when it serves their purposes.

 

 

 

That could be taken as an Aes Sedai answer and you could say that Ishamael thought he was telling the truth, but actually wasn't. 

 

However, we have another interview where RJ confirms that it is indeed the truth. 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 16th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

(inaudible)

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes, the Champion of the Light has gone over in the past

 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 4th, 2001

Leiden Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)

AAN'ALLEIN

In this same Age, in a different Turning of the Wheel of Time, could it be possible that it wouldn't be Rand's soul that was spun out as the Dragon, but for a different, female soul to take on this role?

ROBERT JORDAN

Jordan said "Yes" then maybe a few more words and only then did I remember to actually put the recorder on again. 

 

 

 

[clu7ch]

this whole thing needs to be moved the the cyclical nature thread lulz. But here's what I'm getting at. To what extent did Rand lock the dark one up. He's not popping bubbles, or touching the world, but he was kept alive so that people could go their own ways and not go psycho. The cycle has been broken, or changed. There will not be any 'going over' in the future, unless someone comes along to drill the bore, which i doubt will happen also, because we've broken the traditional age transition barrier. The age transition is a cataclysmic event that happens, and prevents the continuation and proliferation of knowledge. IE the breaking of the world, we lost a lot of information - a lot of how's and why's, and had to restart, while dealing with the growing threat of a dark one problem. 

 

Here we find ourselves in a situation where the white tower is whole, the asha'man are trusted friends rescuing kitteh's from trees, and while a lot of people died - we still have our sanity. Nothing horrifying happened on a level where we lost something. We now know not to go looking for the true power, so unless something man-made happens that disrupts the continuance of knowledge, the prison is staying sealed. Therefor, the dark one is no more, the forsaken are all 'taken care of' and the dreadlords are all dead, or hiding like crazy - and to what end? a bunch of mid-level channelers, they're not the forsaken by any bit. Within a few generations, the knowledge of creating shadowspawn will be gone, if it's not already. The idea of the dark one being a legion of doom entity is done for. 

 

People may rise to fill the void of evil-doers but the dark one was an established pair to the creator and a pivotal device in the wheel of time. It's not anymore. the pattern will adapt to a new pivot point. 

 

Also, i feel like when the dust settles, the sharan's in their homeland are in for a fairly academic responses. 

[Cybertrolloc]

Well, the problem is we have to circle the drain for pages until a semi-clear picture pops out from interview quotes. I was there last time that happened, it's horrible to read. Then you get to the conclusion that Rand's soul is special, special because it's special, special: yay.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Cybertrolloc

[clu7ch]

Yeah, post-end-game speculation and theorizing is a depressing major. Much like liberal arts. 

[Suttree]

this whole thing needs to be moved the the cyclical nature thread lulz. But here's what I'm getting at. To what extent did Rand lock the dark one up. He's not popping bubbles, or touching the world, but he was kept alive so that people could go their own ways and not go psycho. The cycle has been broken, or changed. There will not be any 'going over' in the future, unless someone comes along to drill the bore, which i doubt will happen also, because we've broken the traditional age transition barrier. The age transition is a cataclysmic event that happens, and prevents the continuation and proliferation of knowledge. IE the breaking of the world, we lost a lot of information - a lot of how's and why's, and had to restart, while dealing with the growing threat of a dark one problem. 

 

Here we find ourselves in a situation where the white tower is whole, the asha'man are trusted friends rescuing kitteh's from trees, and while a lot of people died - we still have our sanity. Nothing horrifying happened on a level where we lost something. We now know not to go looking for the true power, so unless something man-made happens that disrupts the continuance of knowledge, the prison is staying sealed. Therefor, the dark one is no more, the forsaken are all 'taken care of' and the dreadlords are all dead, or hiding like crazy - and to what end? a bunch of mid-level channelers, they're not the forsaken by any bit. Within a few generations, the knowledge of creating shadowspawn will be gone, if it's not already. The idea of the dark one being a legion of doom entity is done for. 

You are looking at this all wrong. By the time the circle comes back around through all seven ages all of that will be long lost. Once again:

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

 

Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a make-shift manner. But following this line the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again.

All Rand did was restore us to that time of the prison being whole and unbroken. Even though the AoL was a utopia we have Rand's thoughts that all wasn't as perfect as they thought at the time. If time is a wheel you must come back to the point of a hole being drilled.

 

Fel tells us the same thing:

Loc Ch.18

 

 

   "Yes, you do. You’d make a good student." Snatching his pipe out, Herid drew a circle in the air with the stem. "The Wheel of Time. Ages come and go and come again as the Wheel turns. All the catechism." Suddenly he stabbed a point on that imaginary wheel. "Here the Dark One’s prison is whole. Here, they drilled a hole in it, and sealed it up again." He moved the bit of the pipe along the arc he had drawn. "Here we are. The seal’s weakening. But that doesn’t matter, of course." The pipestem completed the circle. "When the Wheel turns back to here, back to where they drilled the hole in the first place, the Dark One’s prison has to be whole again."

   "Why? Maybe the next time they’ll drill through the patch. Maybe that’s how they could do it the last time – drill into what the Creator made, I mean – maybe they drilled the Bore through a patch and we just don’t know."

   Herid shook his head. For a moment he stared at his pipe, once more realizing it was unlit, and Rand thought he might have to recall him again, but instead Herid blinked and went on. "Someone had to make it sometime. For the first time, that is. Unless you think the Creator made the Dark One’s prison with a hole and patch to begin." His eyebrows waggled at the suggestion. "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more. Hmmm. I wonder if theycalled it the Third Age?" He hastily dipped a pen and scribbled a note in the margins of an open book. "Umph. No matter now. I’m not saying the Dragon

Reborn will be the one to make it whole, not in this Age necessarily anyway, but it must be so before the Third Age comes again, and enough time passed since it was made whole – an Age, at least – that no one remembers the Dark One or his prison. No one remembers.

 

@Barid

 

To finish that quote though we have:

 

 

 

RJ: ...it would have to be. Err, in the differences between the same Age in different turnings of the Wheel, are that.. as for an analogy: imagine two tapestries hanging on a wall, and you look at them from the back of the room to the front of the store. And to look at them, they look identical to you. But as you get closer, you begin to see

differences. And if you get close enough, they don't look anything at all alike. That is the difference between the Ages. Between the Age in one Turning and the Age in another. So it's quite possible that someone other than Rand could be the reborn soul of the Dragon Reborn.

 

Q: It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?

RJ: It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern. But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ......so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male, just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's soul...is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are not interchangeable.

 

Keep in mind the whole female dragon thing was something RJ said he would not explore. There can be other heroes that serve different purposes in different ages aside from this one of course.

 

Also important to note that conversation in which RJ said Ishy wasn't lying was in relation to a conversation where he told Rand "you"(not some generic CoL) have served me and that they had fought this battle time after time in an endless cycle.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Suttree

[clu7ch]

meh, i'll accept it then. as i said. 

[Guest taki]

who was Nakomi?

 

1. an avatar of the Creator, like Shaidar Haran is the avatar of the DO

2. previous Champion of Light. Body switch with female forsaken

3. Latra Posae Decume (self or reborn)

[Edynol]

I think Nakomi is a video game character, a "ghost" that is that is brought back to the world due to the DO's touch on the pattern like the other ghosts we see.  See, Nakomi is an anagram of Konami, who made the Silent Hill series, which is about ghosts.  Now as we know, the ghosts we see pretty much don't know they are ghosts, they just wander around carrying about their days not aware of the living.  But maybe Nakomi is an exception, a Jenn wise one who could channel or a dreamer, so she is able to break completely through that veil and emerge fully into the world.

 

So yeah, my vote is a video game character from Silent Hill making a cameo as an effect of the Wheel.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Edynol

[jjp]

Nakomi is whatever you want her to be. There's no way to know so just make up whatever floats your boat. Egwene, Verin, Tigrane, Harriet, Lini in TaR, any of them work equally well.

[Knivy]

Nakomi is an American Indian name for "wanderer"

[Edynol]

Nakomi is an American Indian name for "wanderer"

My theory is more fun though.  lol.

[Nakomi]

I asked Brandon who the Old lady was in the epilogue and if she is Nakomi... He said he was not allowed to answer that question and gave me
a R.A.F.O. card...  Apparently the answer
will be in the new encyclopedia...

 

[quasitam]

What has Nakomi done that gives any reason to think she has anything to do with the creator?

 

To me she was a blunt instrument to get Avi thinking about the future of the Aiel and prepped (unnecessarily IMO) for dealing with her final trip through the glass ter'angrel. Avi's desire to help the Aiel people after the LB was aided by discussions with other WOs and didnt strictly need Nakomi.

 

Besides, why is helping the Aiel to not become what Avi envisions creator-worthy? Yes it would be sad to see the Aiel degraded but the creator made and let the Seanchan run free and other cultures be eviserated (Sharans) without intervention. Why are the Aiel suddely so special?

 

Likewise, if indeed it was Nakomi who helped Rand body switch (I am not convinced) again, why? The DO is tucked away and Rand "living" in hiding is no longer relevant to the pattern. He did the rest of the hard work on his own, why should intervention start now?

[Kahsm]

What old lady are we talking about? Anyone have the quote?

 

I assumed any random old ladies were just Avi's pet Greandal.