Tower of Ghenji

[Frost Wynters]

So i was thinking the chapter involving Moraine's resuce, just wasnt fleshed out enough in detail. I personally think that part of the story shouldve been much longer. If its not going to be an out-rigger after the series, is over, I think Brandon Sanderson should re-write the chapter and include it in future editions of the book. I know this opens up debate to other chapters, however i think THIS part of the story deserves more in the main context of the book. Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

[Goldstar]

I think it was fleshed out, as you put it, very well, considering the minimum ammount of time the trio could last in the Tower, and the dangerous path back out. It would be unrealistic if it took too much time. It happened quickly, just like most of the important scenes with Mat (need I remind you of Couladin?).

[Suttree]

So i was thinking the chapter involving Moraine's resuce, just wasnt fleshed out enough in detail. I personally think that part of the story shouldve been much longer. If its not going to be an out-rigger after the series, is over, I think Brandon Sanderson should re-write the chapter and include it in future editions of the book. I know this opens up debate to other chapters, however i think THIS part of the story deserves more in the main context of the book. Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

 

Seeing as how RJ wrote this entire sequence I don't think BS will be tinkering with it anymore than has already been done. I also have no issue with it.

[David Selig]

It seemed too long to me as it is. But then the Finns had always bored me.

[jsbrads]

to flesh it out you need more material, RJ might have invented more before sending it to the editor, but Brandons job is not to rewrite content, but to complete the series...

[Southpaw89]

I still do not understand why people complain about the length of the Tower of Ghenji scene. I'm not sure what people really expected? Would it have been better if Mat, Thom and Noal to sit and have a campfire for 20 pages as they wait for the Finns? To me it seemed to be perfect length. We learned stuff, we saw what was going on with Moiraine, we saw both the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, and then we had a decently long escape/fight scene. Perfect enough for me.

[LeeM.Erickson]

I still do not understand why people complain about the length of the Tower of Ghenji scene. I'm not sure what people really expected? Would it have been better if Mat, Thom and Noal to sit and have a campfire for 20 pages as they wait for the Finns? To me it seemed to be perfect length. We learned stuff, we saw what was going on with Moiraine, we saw both the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, and then we had a decently long escape/fight scene. Perfect enough for me.

 

I'd say in a word: hype. We've known for a long time now that Moiraine would be rescued, that some sort of mission would be carried out in Finnland via the ToG. It's even on the cover of Towers of Midnight (with a totally wrong looking Tower, at that), and takes place at the very end of the book. I think it's just something people really built up in their minds, and were disappointed that it wasn't all they expected it to be.

[Aliriel]

The only thing that irked me about the ToG scene was Mat's final insult before jumping through the "doorway"... It just didn't seem like a "Mat-ism", it was too long winded and just didn't sound right.

The rest of the scene IMO was perfect... suspence, action, feelings of hopelessness, redemption and tragity... PERFECT!

 

A.

[JKN-SW]

I was extremely disappointed with this part of AMoL. Can't put my finger on why, probably the hype that was mentioned above. It's not the length, I think, but that the part doesn't have any "wow-moments". Not for me at least. I found it a bit boring, really.

 

Here we are, finally, bringing back one of the key characters in the series after 12-15 years, or what? And it just isn't spectacular. I really hope this isn't a foreshadowing of the ending of the series...

[Thorum]

I was extremely disappointed with this part of AMoL. (...) And it just isn't spectacular.

Maybe the reason for your disappointment is in having a very premature copy of AMoL, instead of reading the very spectacular and surprising story in ToM?

 

You could call it short (though I disagree: few tales in this series last 3-4 chapters of climax), but not spectacular???

[yoniy0]

It was nearly perfect right to the end, but then I feel Brandon took a bad turn. I know RJ wrote the thing, but I can't shake the feeling that the revelation of the BUT was written by Brandon -- it was just a bit heavy handed. Like, it's okay to hint at the truth and let the action itself explain to the reader what's going on, you don't have to spell it out for us.

[baalsmistress]

Much longer and it would have approached tedium. As it was, it fitted in well to what was a fast paced book with a lot of developments and quite a number of plot windups.

[damandred]

The only thing that irked me about the ToG scene was Mat's final insult before jumping through the "doorway"... It just didn't seem like a "Mat-ism", it was too long winded and just didn't sound right.

The rest of the scene IMO was perfect... suspence, action, feelings of hopelessness, redemption and tragity... PERFECT!

 

A.

 

 

 

I think RJ wrote that scene. But I'd just like to mention Mat. I think in the two books by BS the Character he has had the least success in recreating is Mat. I think he went over the top on the whole class clown thing. (Maybe this has already been hit upon, I'm fairly new to DM)

His over blown rant on women to Talmanes in TGS and his ridiculous metaphor in the ToM chapter Boots, seems designed to bludgeon the reader with Mats mischief and wit, instead of the sly mischief and subtle wit of the RJ books.

 

Or that's how it seems to me.

[Aliriel]

The only thing that irked me about the ToG scene was Mat's final insult before jumping through the "doorway"... It just didn't seem like a "Mat-ism", it was too long winded and just didn't sound right.

The rest of the scene IMO was perfect... suspence, action, feelings of hopelessness, redemption and tragity... PERFECT!

 

A.

 

 

 

I think RJ wrote that scene. But I'd just like to mention Mat. I think in the two books by BS the Character he has had the least success in recreating is Mat. I think he went over the top on the whole class clown thing. (Maybe this has already been hit upon, I'm fairly new to DM)

His over blown rant on women to Talmanes in TGS and his ridiculous metaphor in the ToM chapter Boots, seems designed to bludgeon the reader with Mats mischief and wit, instead of the sly mischief and subtle wit of the RJ books.

 

Or that's how it seems to me.

 

I know RJ wrote the ToG scene, never tried to imply differently.

What I was trying to say was that the final insult just didn't seem right for Mat (as we knew him upto KoD, tGS and ToM Mat is different in the way he's written, but thats what you get with different authors perception of characters)

 

A.

[Cybertrolloc]

Found it decent, and I hate everything :)

 

Only real problems I see are Mat referring to himself as Matrim Cauthon, but he might have done that before. He'll talk smack, but not really at such length... Thom whooping when they make it to the Chamber of Whatnot seemed a bit out of character. Too much explaining probably, but that type of subtlety is tough to write.

 

It might have been preferable that Mo were found elsewhere and had an active part, but involving the OP would probably might make it harder for Noal to die without all of them dying, or for them to make it through. The Finns did capture Lanfear and Mo in the first place after all.

 

Meh, so how did the dudes in Mat's head make it through there anyway? ;)

[mb]

Have not yet read the book, but have skimmed through various portions of the book.

I was satisfied with the length and the content.

 

 

The only re-writting of any scene I imagine would be to correct typos/grammer/etc.

 

Info not planned for might likely be included in a more complete guide.

[LeeM.Erickson]

I think in the two books by BS the Character he has had the least success in recreating is Mat. I think he went over the top on the whole class clown thing. (Maybe this has already been hit upon, I'm fairly new to DM)

His over blown rant on women to Talmanes in TGS and his ridiculous metaphor in the ToM chapter Boots, seems designed to bludgeon the reader with Mats mischief and wit, instead of the sly mischief and subtle wit of the RJ books.

 

A lot of people have mentioned Sanderson getting Mat wrong in the last two books. I think part of it is because of a change in Mat's character...I remember reading something about there were specific instructions about how he should act different since he's married. I didn't really have a problem with Sanderson's characterization of Mat or any of the other characters. I think people scrutinize it too much, look for things that seem wrong and you'll be sure to find some. I remember one person flipping out one time when they heard Sanderson was going to take names from fans to put into the book for charity. They were saying how RJ would have never done such a thing, even though the trend was started by him with Charlz Guybon. I heard someone complain one time that he makes Cadsuane say "Phaw!" too much. I just reread New Spring, and she uses it a lot in there...it struck me as someone looking for a flaw with BS.

 

All that being said, the one time I felt his handling of Mat became a little too silly was his typo filled note in ToM. It seemed a little over the top, definitely seemed more like something a fan would write than something I expected to see in the actual book. That being said, it did make me laugh out loud, but in hindsight it seemed kind of goofy.

[MyKillK]

So i was thinking the chapter involving Moraine's resuce, just wasnt fleshed out enough in detail. I personally think that part of the story shouldve been much longer. If its not going to be an out-rigger after the series, is over, I think Brandon Sanderson should re-write the chapter and include it in future editions of the book. I know this opens up debate to other chapters, however i think THIS part of the story deserves more in the main context of the book. Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

 

 

I agree in a way, but I think the problem was more the way Brandon interjected it into the book more than how the chapters were written. I don't like how it was just glued on to the end of the book. It felt very abrupt and rushed, how Mat was in Caemlyn but then suddenly was at the Tower in his next chapter. It really made the switch in authors (the Tower scenes were written by Jordan) very noticeable as well. As you say, Brandon should have fleshed it out more. For one, there should have been a short chapter, or at least part of a chapter, of the group en route to the Tower as a transition.

 

I also think the chapters could have been split up differently to make them shorter, and the greater number of chapters would have made it possible to spread the story out a bit so that it didn't have to all come in one chunk, but of course saving the best parts for the end of the book. That is how I've come to expect plots to be approached in the Wheel of Time. Not thrown in all at once at the end, almost as an afterthought.

 

It's a bit of a shame too. Probably the most anticipated scene of the whole series, except for TG of course, and it fell flat. If I had to summarize, it was that Brandon tried too hard to "preserve the sanctity" of Robert Jordan's work and ended up making the scene feel isolated. He should be more willing to integrate RJ's writings into his own, knitting the two together rather than just placing them side by side. Even if that requires changing RJ's words at times.

[wintermute]

I like the Tower of Ghenjei sequence well enough. The spectacular moment for me was when Mat offers "half the light of the world" in exchange for Moiraine. After that, I found that the chase scene and Mat's big realization about his ashandarei to be rather anticlimactic.

 

In hindsight, I think Mat could have held out for more, maybe try to get a few extra angreal/ter'angreal in the bargain. The Finn seem very eager to deal. But I suppose his mindset wasn't on horse trading at the moment.

[Luckers]

I think the whole hype element is pretty spot on--for myself I found this scene to be some of the best writing in the book--the whole 'we are the warriors of last regret' and all that gave me chills--though I do agree that parts of it feel like Brandon, like Mat's last comment, which is likely a result of Brandon editing the scenes (which he has stated he did do).

 

I wonder if people's feelings might not change after time has passed, when the feel of 'nothing really happened' gives way to simply enjoying the scene. *shrug*.

[Thor]

I didn't like the part.

 

It doesn't explain how the heck Birgitte was able to survive for a whole month in that place, regardless of the fact that she was a 'legendary' hero.

[JeffWeissberg]

 

I wonder if people's feelings might not change after time has passed, when the feel of 'nothing really happened' gives way to simply enjoying the scene. *shrug*.

 

Agree. For me, the first time i read it, i think i rushed myself. i was so eager to devour the scene. on subsequent readings, it is definitely a very enjoyable read.

[Mandro]

I think the only thing that really came to mind with the genji part, was that it was supposed to be about Moiraine, but in a way it was more about Matt, and Noel. The story was good, but Moiraine sorta just popping out from behind the curtain took a little away from itl

[MyKillK]

I think the whole hype element is pretty spot on--for myself I found this scene to be some of the best writing in the book--the whole 'we are the warriors of last regret' and all that gave me chills--though I do agree that parts of it feel like Brandon, like Mat's last comment, which is likely a result of Brandon editing the scenes (which he has stated he did do).

 

I wonder if people's feelings might not change after time has passed, when the feel of 'nothing really happened' gives way to simply enjoying the scene. *shrug*.

 

I thought Brandon was on record saying he left the scene entirely as Robert wrote it?

[Luckers]

He did, but Brandon did edit the work Jordan wrote. When I say parts, I literally mean like the phrasing of a line here, a style of description there.