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That'd probably be my guess too--though the BUT wasn't really a huge payoff like everyone was expecting--i mean yeah, sure, it got them out of the Tower of Ghenjei, but if the plot needed that to happen it could have been done other ways.

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I figure we'll finally figure out why RJ said that Mat has the Dark One's own luck.

 

That came to mind and the Lanfear thing came to mind when I read the summaries on encyclodeadia-wot. I guess I'd have to reread those chapters to get anything else...summaries just don't cut it.

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in ch 39 nyneave uses "a thin bar" of balefire against the fades and we seem to not see any of the usual side effects of balefire....those killed by the fades didnt come back to life...was it the size of the balefire or something else...just a thought...

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That'd probably be my guess too--though the BUT wasn't really a huge payoff like everyone was expecting--i mean yeah, sure, it got them out of the Tower of Ghenjei, but if the plot needed that to happen it could have been done other ways.

 

So THAT was the BUT. I only heard of it, you know, and I knew it was much less than what I thought.

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No one else thinks the darkhounds are far and away the simplest explanation? Mat's luck has been played out thoroughly throughout the series and we've already seen quite a bit of Lanfear in TAR. That darkhound pack is the only thing that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series without anything happening with them.

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No one else thinks the darkhounds are far and away the simplest explanation? Mat's luck has been played out thoroughly throughout the series and we've already seen quite a bit of Lanfear in TAR. That darkhound pack is the only thing that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series without anything happening with them.

 

The darkhound gun has already been shot many times. In addition to Moiraine's fight with them Rand has fought them more than once and Nynaeve has as well in the test to be AS. (I don't know how she knew that they were darkhounds or her knowledge of BF. She did it once, yes, but there is no indication she knew what she was doing or remembered it; she didn't even know what it was.)

 

I disagree that we have seen Lanfear quite a bit in T'A'R. She entered Rand's dreams a couple times, but she didn't really do anything of worth. In the age of legends, Lanfear was supposedly able to destroy a number of key figures by attacking them in their dreams. I think she is working on working on Rand, now.

 

Then again, the more I think about it the less I think that Lanfear using T'A'R is the gun, though.

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No one else thinks the darkhounds are far and away the simplest explanation? Mat's luck has been played out thoroughly throughout the series and we've already seen quite a bit of Lanfear in TAR. That darkhound pack is the only thing that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series without anything happening with them.

 

The darkhound gun has already been shot many times. In addition to Moiraine's fight with them Rand has fought them more than once and Nynaeve has as well in the test to be AS. (I don't know how she knew that they were darkhounds or her knowledge of BF. She did it once, yes, but there is no indication she knew what she was doing or remembered it; she didn't even know what it was.)

 

I disagree that we have seen Lanfear quite a bit in T'A'R. She entered Rand's dreams a couple times, but she didn't really do anything of worth. In the age of legends, Lanfear was supposedly able to destroy a number of key figures by attacking them in their dreams. I think she is working on working on Rand, now.

 

Then again, the more I think about it the less I think that Lanfear using T'A'R is the gun, though.

 

But the giant darkhound pack that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series has not been fired. The pack that circled around Perrin's camp in CoT is still just running amok without having done anything. Yes we've seen individual dark hounds but not the pack.

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No one else thinks the darkhounds are far and away the simplest explanation? Mat's luck has been played out thoroughly throughout the series and we've already seen quite a bit of Lanfear in TAR. That darkhound pack is the only thing that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series without anything happening with them.

 

The darkhound gun has already been shot many times. In addition to Moiraine's fight with them Rand has fought them more than once and Nynaeve has as well in the test to be AS. (I don't know how she knew that they were darkhounds or her knowledge of BF. She did it once, yes, but there is no indication she knew what she was doing or remembered it; she didn't even know what it was.)

 

I disagree that we have seen Lanfear quite a bit in T'A'R. She entered Rand's dreams a couple times, but she didn't really do anything of worth. In the age of legends, Lanfear was supposedly able to destroy a number of key figures by attacking them in their dreams. I think she is working on working on Rand, now.

 

Then again, the more I think about it the less I think that Lanfear using T'A'R is the gun, though.

 

But the giant darkhound pack that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series has not been fired. The pack that circled around Perrin's camp in CoT is still just running amok without having done anything. Yes we've seen individual dark hounds but not the pack.

 

That pack in CoT is another pack than the ones earlier. Normal packs have something like 10 hounds, this pack had 50.

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What I understand with the "Broken Crown" is that that is what the crown of Saldaea is called. Am I wrong or did I miss something?

Why do people seem to indicate the "broken crown" as an indication that someone sill die?

 

You are correct. The Broken Crown refers to the Crown of Saldea. ( Although, when stripping Colavaere of the Sun Crown, Rand did break and then repair it )

 

Min has had a vision of The Broken Crown being somewhere in Perrin's future. Robert Jordan told us Min is never wrong. In order for both those things to be true, a minimum of one person has to die.

 

Tenobia is the current queen. Until she marries and has a child, Davram Bashere is first in the line of succession, and his daughter Faile is next.

 

If Faile were to die, and Perrin subsequently married Tenobia, Min's vision is fulfilled. If Tenobia and Bashere die, the crown descends to Faile and again Min's vision is fulfilled.

 

My ( long held ) personal preference would be for Faile to die and Perrin to marry Tenobia.

 

( given that this will be the last book in the series, it would have to be a whirlwind romance with no time for mourning for Perrin to marry Tenobia... soooooo we're probably stuck with Tenobia and Bashere getting croaked. )

Edited by Bob T Dwarf
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But the giant darkhound pack that's repeatedly referred to throughout the series has not been fired. The pack that circled around Perrin's camp in CoT is still just running amok without having done anything. Yes we've seen individual dark hounds but not the pack.

 

It almost has to be this pack.

 

Unless they were never anything more than a red-herring, we have to get an explanation of what they are/were up-to.

 

They'd be a really lame red-herring. They blew through that chapter in about two paragraphs and haven't had any effect on the plot what-so-ever.

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I always felt Mat's luck would be one of the things that was never explained. It makes sense for it to be the big pack. There has to be a show down with them so it fits.

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I went through the summaries and came up with a couple of other possibilities:

 

Both Thom and Perrin have reason to be wary of the Red Ajah (ch31, ch36). Will they try to gentle Perrin, as they wanted to do to Elyas? Will Elyas turn up again?

 

Rand dreams that Min is attacking him (ch32), but it was actually a disguised Shadowspawn. Egwene dreams of Min, springing a steel trap but somehow walking through it without so much as seeing it (ch37). Will the Shadow target Min? LTT wanted to add her name to Rand's 'list'.

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Egwene dreams of Min, springing a steel trap but somehow walking through it without so much as seeing it (ch37).

 

This refers to her reemergence in the White Tower leading to the toppling of Siuane Sanche and so forth.

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It won't be the darkhounds. Brandon wouldn't mention something that would be that insignificant. Yeah they'd be a pain for the good guys but so are trollocs and fades. The Mat theory about the Dark Ones luck would be much more significant or the Lanfear thing about who she supposedly serves

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Besides channelers, darkhounds are probably the most dangerous weapon the DO has. Imagine that pack destroying a ton of wolves and becoming a giant army. It could be devastating.

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is rand a dreamer? maybe rjs directly answered this at some point...i skimmed these chapters after reading brandons status and focused on the few short rand povs. clearly hes in TaR and most of the male forsaken can only do this by entering it physically. and the dreams he has seem to be forshadowing. maybe in his paranoid rush to get the shadow out of his dreams he just asked asmo to show him how to ward his dreams...and never asked about the chance of being a dreamer or dreamwalker or using TaR as an advantage. to my knowledge egwayne doesnt ward her dreams and aes sedai have been warding theirs for many years...maybe warding them wards you from entering/foretelling etc and this would account for a lack of white tower dreamers, wise ones dont ward and have several,....i dunno im just tryin to point out anything small mentioned in this section that isnt accounted for in later books....anything that makes me go hmmm lol

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Besides channelers, darkhounds are probably the most dangerous weapon the DO has. Imagine that pack destroying a ton of wolves and becoming a giant army. It could be devastating.

 

Darkhound vs gholam, which would win? :D

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I"m not sure why people think the big pack of Darkhounds is an option. We didn't even get a whiff of the new breed until TFOH, TSR at the earliest (when we noticed Luc was killing wolves in Tel'aran'rhiod). These were probably just normal Darkhounds; it takes about a year to make them, apparently.

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The only thing I have to add that hasn't been considered at length in this thread is the 3 foolish Kings from Ch. 33 may be symbolism for the taver'en trio somehow. I can't clearly see which modern Randland female fits the role of Mara though.

 

I'll let everyone else disprove and/or dismiss out of hand; I don't see any direct correlations between the kings and the main taver'en. I really have to stretch (highly indirect) for any sort of corellation at an individual level. Taken as a group though, it does fit the gender theme RJ played consistently (women aren't fools). Even as symbolism for the group, what in Randland is the prize that some un-specified female is holding back from the trio?

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That'd probably be my guess too--though the BUT wasn't really a huge payoff like everyone was expecting--i mean yeah, sure, it got them out of the Tower of Ghenjei, but if the plot needed that to happen it could have been done other ways.

I think this had more to do with hype than anything else. And the fact that we'd disqualified the real answer accidentally. It was always a mystery that bugged me (why'd they give it to him?) but it all makes sense now. RJ said they saw it as a convenient way to kill him - tie his neck to the ashandarei and throw him out.

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Just a quick question (I don't have the books on me) when is the first reference to the "eyes" in TAR?

 

 

tSR; 35, Sharp Lessons.

 

Back when I thought they were the BUT I wrote a full thread on them, if you're interested. Unseen Eyes of TAR

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Hello all. First time poster, long time reader. Just throwing in my two cents on the "gun". I noticed at the start of ch. 39, Nynaeve heals a maiden and Aviendha tells her that she owes her a "blood debt". Maybe this will play into the Lan scenes. (Its late so I may be missing a time when this debt may have been paid)

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