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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

a_lily_in_winter

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  • Birthday 01/01/1

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  1. I second the Demandred thread as really bad. I think the Faile thread had a lot of potential, but the way that it was written Faile should have died. I don't have a problem with Elayne's reasoning. They should either do this on the QT or go all out guns blazing. What I have a problem with is that it doesn't really explain why or how Faile was sent into the blight. Was it simply a random pattern inspired event? or was it a DO inspired event? It hardly seems that it could be planned by the dark side; they would certainly be more effective. Unlike you, I love that fact that all their effort to get it to Mat was useless since it wasn't bonded to Mat. I also like the ending. Olver like Mat sounded the horn not for glory but for salvation. I don't have a problem with Gaul, because he really isn't that important of a character and because not all red veils can channel and channeling can get you fried there, by the DO. With Fain, I don't have a problem with bad guys dying ignominious deaths. The idea that Mat developed an immunity to him is patently false. Rand's wound from Padan Fain throbbed even worse. Perhaps Mat's immunity came from the warding given to him by the AS. I agree whole-heartedly about Moiraine. I would like to add to your list of gateway tricks to include any number of chanelers who suddenly developed gateway tricks. It was like BS decided to see how many of them he could make. To your list of threads that work, I would like to add Perrin's half of the Perrin/Lanfear thread. The ending was lame, though. To you list of lame threads I would like to add the subverting of the great generals. That had great potential for suspense but was wasted as was Elayne thread arc.
  2. Also, while I am thinking of it, do you think that that drastic speeding up was inevitable. Was the slow, inside of the head of every character model sustainable for the entire series? In other words, do you really think that another 500 pages would be enough to keep the same character? I don't know, myself.
  3. You said in one paragraph what I struggled to say in my meandering post. Thanks. (To top it off you did it while I was thinking about my post.)
  4. My two cents, for what that is worth. I picked up the book and was enthralled from the beginning to the end. On the other hand, I have no desire to read any of it ever again. For in my opinion, AMoL, is hands down, by far the worst book in the series, but probably not for the reason that most people would give. I definitely don't want to add to the pile of crap that is thrown against either BS or RJ. (Although, I will say that at least a portion of the problem was how certain things were set up in the series. One example of this in my opinion is that RJ chose to surprise us about Demandred's activity in Shara instead of building up suspense, but that is not my main point.) What I think went wrong in AMoL has nothing to do with who made the mistakes or why, but what exactly is wrong with the story. For in my opinion, what is most wrong with AMoL is that BS (and to some extent RJ) gave us exactly what we have been loudly demanding for all these years. By us I mean plenty of the people on this board and similar boards. We have been demanding more actions scenes and more capable villains and more Mat being a general. In aMoL, BS, gave us all that in spades. BS gave us exactly what we thought we wanted, a testosterone fueled, action packed, blood soaked killing frenzy. Even better it had none of the scenes that we so detested, there were no bath scenes or long internal monologues, etc. and Faile did not wash a single piece of silk. But it turns out that what we really wanted, or it could be just me, was something completely different. As an illustration of what I am saying let me compare the 'Last Battle' chapter to the battle at the cleansing of Saidin in WH. In WH, RJ gave us very short battle scenes with little or no action. We got the beginning of each battle, which usually went something on the order of hmm... look there is someone who is probably a bad guy, maybe I should attack followed quickly by OH CRAP, before it cuts to another scenes like it. We hardly see ANY of the action only the beginning for the OH CRAP moment and the end to mourn the dead and celebrate the costly victory. On the other hand, the Last Battle, in AMoL chapter gives us what we thought we wanted, blow by blow account covering every major character, etc. I realize that the scope of the Last Battle is just a little bit larger that the scope of the cleansing, but I stand by my point. In my opinion, aMoL failed because it was missing the scenes, that we thought we didn't want. The Last Battle could have been cut in half and the space used to develop important story arcs such as the subversion of the great generals, (did anyone ever explain why Gareth Bryne was just as easy to subvert despite the warder bond or why nobody caught anything sooner.) Another important arc that could have been developed is the cracks in the reality and how Egwene discovered how to fill them and her discovery of the anti-balefire weave. Other people would add to the list, but in the end it really doesn't matter which arcs BS chose to develop. I am sorry if it sounds like I am criticizing either BS or Harriet for choosing him. I don't know what the exact reason for this flaw is and in the end I don't care. I could just as easily argue that it was RJs fault for pushing all the action to the end, because he did not truly know how to develop toward the action. In the end the lesson of aMoL,though, is to be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
  5. The simplest redundancy was that it was in the book that she gave to Egwene. I cannot see why it wouldn't be in there. Nor do I understand why she did not mention it to Egwene directly, though.
  6. I don't know why people cannot simply give the shadow credit. If Elayne had doubled or tripled the number of kin the shadow would have doubled or tripled the number of grey man and/or sent BA. As Verin mentioned in her letter the only way to have stopped the attack was to get rid of the way gate. The shadow has way too much resources for anything else to make a difference. If I can find a fault with Elayne's planning it is with presumably not checking up on the city enough. Then again with so many travelers out there I am suprised that there isn't somone who has to go to Caemlyn for some purpose or another. In the end, though, hind sight is 20/20.
  7. I am not sure if it is an error or not. But during the siege of Caemlyn someone mentioned about the area around the waygate being cleared with a firewall. It is not clear to me that anyone except perhaps Talmanes, due to Verin's letter, would know about the waygate. It is not even clear to me if Elayne knows about it. Rand set a strong guard, but there is no indication that he thought of letting Elayne know about it.
  8. I tried similar stuff before I found out they have been tried. I think that any list will be either of performers or acts. There are so many variants, though; this is especially true since it was mentioned that a lot of the titles were formatted strangely. There are just so many varieties such as "Circus, Valan Luca's: performers in" Unfortunately, I have to wait an hour.
  9. The darkhound gun has already been shot many times. In addition to Moiraine's fight with them Rand has fought them more than once and Nynaeve has as well in the test to be AS. (I don't know how she knew that they were darkhounds or her knowledge of BF. She did it once, yes, but there is no indication she knew what she was doing or remembered it; she didn't even know what it was.) I disagree that we have seen Lanfear quite a bit in T'A'R. She entered Rand's dreams a couple times, but she didn't really do anything of worth. In the age of legends, Lanfear was supposedly able to destroy a number of key figures by attacking them in their dreams. I think she is working on working on Rand, now. Then again, the more I think about it the less I think that Lanfear using T'A'R is the gun, though.
  10. And then he linked the Wikipedia entry for Chekhov's Gun. There are a surprising amount of 'Chekhov guns' in these chapters but most of them have been shot. Most likely gun is that Lanfear claims T'A'R as her own. I can see her taking out a number of people in their dreams or in T'A'R in aMoL. There is some hint of that at the end of ToM. Less likely things: The pattern finally reveals why it was important for Perrin's thread that he meet Gaul. Moraine is reading a notebook looking at things near the beginning. Maybe something in that notebook is important to Rand. Elayne and Aviendha marry Rand. One of Egwene's dreams about the Seanchen that she doesn't want to think about.
  11. Sounds reasonable to me. Remember in tGH while in Falme right before Mat blew the horn, Rand felt that several threads that were important to him were in danger. (Most likely that included, Egwene, Elayne, and Min since they were all drawn to him.) Further, there were any number of ta'veren events that happened to Elayne and Nynaeve when they were together. (One particular example, in Tanchico is that they are having trouble finding the BA until three sources come all at once; further where ever Nynaeve and Elayne went chaos erupted soon after. Much like happened to Rand early in the series. Further, Elayne troubles with the BA in Caemlyn both included two cases of extreme bad luck. (What was the chance that she would interrogate the BA at the same time as they were breaking free?) The pattern for some reason wanted Caemlyn sacked and Elayne came too close to stopping that. Other people had already pointed out how ta'veren like effects seem to happen around Egwene, even when Rand is not there. The same is often true for Nynaeve. (Witness how she moved the borderlands to support Lan, or the birds that spooked Moggy when she tried to BF Nynaeve. None of these are ta'veren they are merely the second level of threads that turn still other threads and are not the first turning. But in a real sense the distinction isn't that important, since they can have a huge effect on the pattern as well. For every well established ta'veren effect done by one of the ta'veren, I can point out something similar that happened to our 'sub-taveren' The only exception, that I can think of is having someone say one thing that they normally wouldn't. It has happened to Mat at least once and Rand at least twice, but I can't think of anything similar happen for any of the 'sub-taveren'.
  12. I agree. The sun returning from behind a cloud no matter how dark does not construe being a 'dawn'. Nor can I see a way to balefire anything so that the Sun dawn's twice. (What would you balefire to do this?) If you are going to use poetic license to extend to other dawn type stuff, then it is much easier to use poetic license to mean two different days. On the other hand, since Shayol Ghul is probably within the artic circle the Sun may be low enough to 'dawn' twice if there are tall mountains nearby, which there are at Shayol Ghul. It would be quite fitting if Rand's blood was shed on the slopes of Shoyol Ghul as the Sun goes behind it and have Rand's final victory as the Sun dawn's again on the other side of Shayol Ghul.
  13. Thanks for that clarification about the asha'man that left with Logain. I suspected something of that sort and I looked for it but obviously I didn't read far enough. Have we seen any of the others mentioned? I can't keep track. For some reason I am having a harder time keeping track of what happened in the last few books that I could in the previous books. Part of the problem is the time line. Rand visits Egwene and says that he will meet her in a month. Then the next day he goes to Arad Doman, then soon after he visits the borderlanders then the next day is the day he meets with Egwene. Verin's timeline is just as messed up. In her letter she says she plans to return the next day and that the shadow will attack within a month; yet neither are remotely possible. In any case the disappearance of Logain is troubling and would be more so except for Min's viewing.
  14. oops. I tried to post this as a response to the post below, but somehow I ended up starting a separate thread.
  15. "Androl had been worrying for weeks now. Ever since Logain had left in the night. Where had he gone? Why had he taken Donalo, Mezar and Welyn---three of the most powerful Dedicated loyal to him---along?" Androl's p.o.v. in ToM p. 682 Later, in "Something Wrong" (p. 818) in T.o.M., Mezar reappears in the BT but he has been turned to the shadow, presumably by the 13/13 trick.
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