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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Bob T Dwarf

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Everything posted by Bob T Dwarf

  1. If we hope to make sense out of this we have to begin with a set of reasonable, agreed upon, assumptions. Things like: if it's Capitalized it must be a name or the synonym for a name. So Broken Wolf is obviously meant to be a name. So is Death. Also, Midnight Towers. So, Step 1 would be to identify Death and Midnight Towers. Moridin means death, but does Death necessarily mean Moridin? What about Midnight Towers? Is that literally the 13 natural black stone towers in Seanchan that are called the Midnight Towers? Or someplace else? This is a Dark Prophesy. Like all Prophesies, vaguely couched, and meant to be understood only by the Initiates of the Darkfriend Secret Society. Nobody else matters. Only those pledged to the Dark One will survive to achieve glory and immortality, so who cares whether anyone else understands the meaning or not? What would Darkfriends consider to be "Midnight Towers"? Someplace not understood? Dark and frightening? The one thing that must be plain to even the uninitiated is that "the Broken Wolf" has fallen and been consumed and destroyed. The implication contained in that statement is that "the Broken Wolf" MUST be universally known and revered as a symbol of Light and strength. All of the candidates presented fail that single test for various reasons ranging from obscurity to great ambivalence about their dedication to the Light. That includes Rand. Probably as many people fear him and consider him destruction incarnate and utterly Black, as do those that consider him the Light messiah. The only candidate I can think of who might qualify on all counts is Jain Farstrider. Every child grows up on the Tales of his travels, so he IS universally known. He is always the Hero, so if it were to become known that he had fallen to and been consumed by the Dark, it could "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shake their very will itself." Not even Rand's death could do that. As many would rejoice as would mourn because of how the return of the Dragon is viewed. But, if Farstrider were to become known to have been destroyed by the dark, if the very mythology that every child grew up on were to become known to have failed, then people's "very will itself" might become shaken. That would make the Midnight Towers, the realm of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. A place uncontrollable by the DO and his powers, thus dark as midnight even to the Great Lord of the Dark. It's a Theory, anyway.
  2. Now we're getting down to very fine parsing of what Jordan said and what he meant. Since he is no longer around to ask, almost any interpretation is as valid as any other, but the most common way to interpret what Jordan said is that IF the Blight is not accessible from T'a'R, then anything contained within the Blight is also not accessible from T'a'R. Ergo, no Blight also equals no Shayol Ghul. Example: Narg smart! Narg not part of Blight. Narg simply live there. If Narg want to leave Blight, Narg knows that many men with sharp, pointy things that can kill Narg guard the front door at Tarwin's Gap. Narg also know that Machin Shin would love to eat Narg if Narg uses Ways. So, Narg, being smart, will use backdoor at Shayol Ghul. Except that he can't. There is no backdoor there. The Age of Legends Aes Sedai that made the Blight inaccessible from Tel'aran'Rhiod would have also been smart enough to make Shayol Ghul inaccessible from T'a'R. As someone pointed out, Traveling to the vicinity of Shayol Ghul is allowed. We see Demandred do it in Book 6. Travel to/from Shayol Ghul is not. The DO automatically assumes any such attempt constitutes nefarious intent and kills anyone who tries. Friend or foe. So no, Transporting blocks of SG stone directly from the mountain would not be possible. Any blocks of SG rock would need to have been transported at least part way by wagon, until the wagon was far enough from SG for Traveling to be safe.
  3. Why does the mythology persist that the longer they spend and the more they "polish" the better the book will be? There is simply no such correlation. Nobody wants a bad book. Nobody wants any gilded lilies, either. There's an old axiom that goes something along the lines of, "Don't let perfect become the enemy of good enough." The sad truth is that nothing can live up to twenty years of build-up. Moving this, changing that, won't really matter. A Memory of Light either has good bones or it doesn't. Put another way, applying a ball gown and lipstick to a pig merely wastes your time and annoys the pig, it doesn't create a debutante.
  4. Ituralde isn't a bad choice in a couple of respects. He is known as "TheLittle Wolf." He has had personal contact with Little Miss Compulsion, and is thus most likely to be "broken." Although my own impression was he'd found his own way around whatever Graendal did to him by refusing to remain where further messages and orders from "The King" could reach him. My personal feeling accords with yours. Maradon was supposed to accomplish that Dark Prophecy. Whether Rand's intervention precluded the Prophecy or merely delayed it remains to be seen.
  5. Sorry, but outside of the Two Rivers, Perrin simply is not well enough known nor widely enough heralded to have his destruction, "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men," and "shake their very will itself." Agelmar, Ituralde, Bashere, Bryne, those are fabled names and fabled men, known in every corner of Randland. One of them possibly, but not Perrin. He's a nobody by comparison, and none but those closest to him would be made afraid or sorrowful by his destruction.
  6. Sanderson was given the totally unenviable job of cramming ten pounds of stuff into a five pound bag. Jordan had promised "Just one more book.", but that was a promise he couldn't have delivered on any more than Sanderson could have. I've said it before and I will repeat it now, Jordan was always three books away from finishing. Had he lived, after The Gathering Storm he still would have been three books away from finishing, and after Towers of Midnight still three books away. To Brandon Sanderson's credit he was unwilling to sacrifice his own life and his own career to writing the remainder of the Wheel of Time in the same fashion that Jordan would have. With Sanderson, we will get to read the end of the story. With Jordan we would have all died of old age and the story would have still been three books away from being finished. Brandon Sanderson was given a nearly impossible task and he has done nothing but the most commendable work accomplishing it. And it has been accomplished. The last words have been put on the manuscript page. The story has been completed. Can't we all just be grateful that we each lived long enough to see that?
  7. I've looked. Really. I don't see ANY facts in what you expressed. I do see a whole lot of your opinion. Now while your opinion matters, mostly to you, it also matters to some others. But regardless it is still just an opinion like all others. Not a fact. I preordered and read the very same versions of The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight that you and everybody else did. I found them to be remarkably good. Well written. True to the story and the characters as defined by Robert Jordan. Entertaining and timely, besides. And, entertaining and timely are not terms that can be used by any but a masochist about several of the volumes penned by Robert Jordan. And that is mostly Harriet's fault. She abdicated her responsibilities as an editor in favor of her desires as a wife. The series suffered mightily for that. And that is fact. Now, suddenly, she actually cares about the quality of the books? Somebody who is looking to buy a bridge in Brooklyn might believe that but not the rest of us.
  8. With Mask of Mirrors or Mirror of Mists or whatever the author is calling it this week, it can look like a duck, quack like a duck, waddle like a duck and not even be any type of fowl. Kisman was given a very similar order three different times by what he believed to be three different people. Belief, no matter how fervent, does not constitute fact. So, the question is, were they really three different people? Or, were they one person, using higher and higher ranking disguises to get something that the Nae'blis had forbidden done anyway? Given how the whole attempt on Rand's life played out, my money is on Ishar Morad Chuain aka Aginor aka Corlan Dashiva aka the rather ordinary-looking man who went poof along with the whole hilltop he was on when Elza jumped froggy while in control of Callandor.
  9. That may be reading too much into things. After all, how can this be ( among others ) an Arturian based story without at least few Knights of the Round Table. IIRC, there was a Sir Bors, as well. Our Bors was anything but a Knight of the Round Table. And if we're going to talk the Arthurian Myth, which one? There are dozens. Each related in some ways and distinct in others. The earliest had him conquering all of Great Britain, and all of Northern and Western Europe as well. That sounds much more like Artur Hawkwing than Rand al Thor. Lancelot and many of the others were late additions to the mythology.
  10. The most common human characteristic is a universal belief that "I am the center of the Universe. I am God's special chosen being, and I am destined to do great things." Somewhere way down deep inside, that is what everybody believes, or the human race could not/would not continue in the face of all the ugliness and tragedy, greed and stupidity that surrounds us daily. Elaida is very human. She believes utterly in her own "manifest destiny." That belief blinds her to a lot of uncomfortable truths about herself, and leads her down the path she chose. Because she was so "special" and because she was obviously "destined for greatness", every action she chose was obviously both "right" and "necessary" because her special relationship with the Creator and her obvious "destiny" would not allow anything else. IOW, she was about a hair and a half crazier than the average human being.
  11. Keep in mind - This is from the Essanik Cycle. The Seanchan version of the Kareathon Cycle that was "corrupted" by Ishamael. Nothing says what was corrupted nor in how many places the Kareathon Cycle was corrupted to create the Essanik cycle. So, the fact that it claims "the blind man" shall "weep for what has been wrought" doesn't really mean anything, since it comes from a very untrustworthy source. The part that would fit best for "When the many become one" is when Rand remembers all of the past incarnations of the Dragon.
  12. One thing i'm pretty sure we can count on is that Tarmon Gai'don will not change human nature in general nor the nature of any Aes Sedai in particular. Jordan has given us a history for those people where every time they have a choice to make they almost invariably choose wrongly. Ergo, if Egwene should die, it's about 90% certain that they will choose precisely the wrong person to replace her. Given the ends the Salidar Aes Sedai had in mind, Egwene was precisely the wrong choice there, as well.
  13. Nice theory. Problem is if Sammie had them they really didn't do him much good, did they? And, if he had them, either Rand has them now, or Graendal does, since they are the ones who got Sam's stash. Graendal's luck ran good for awhile, but she seemed to have rolled snake-eyes the last time we saw her.
  14. Based on Date-of-Birth, yes. Based on years in existence, no. What's-her-face of the Kin is somewhere around 600. LTT was somewhere 300-400 years old when he offed himself, and Rand is only 20-21. As to Line-of-Succession, I imagine it would go much as the Roman Catholic Church handles the death of a Pope.
  15. I agree with you on this point. Terez is apparently privy to much more information than the rest of us, or she's just making stuff up. As hard as she has worked to document so many things about this series, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say she knows stuff I, for one, have never heard before. Whatever the truth may be, it has not been clearly communicated to us, the readers and consumers of this "art." Since it is our money that is paying for the food that many at Tor and all at Team Jordan eat every day, I do believe they owe us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And, that they are not delivering. Not in the past, not now, and based on past history, they will not deliver it in the future. They will spin and massage and handle. But they are incapable of simply speaking the truth. Brandon Sandeerrson was up-front with us. He told us he was a little burned out. He told us he needed to take the time to do another thorough reread before beginning A Memory of Light. He told us, up front that he would not even be beginning to write the final volume until he had the chance to take a breather and finish that reread. He also told when he did begin writing the book almost exactly a year ago as he had forecast. And, he further, through hard work, delivered his first draft by the end of 2011 as he had promised. It took him 9 months to write the book. To stitch together his words and Jordan's words and make a coherent story. He told us what was going to happen and he delivered on what he told us. Team Jordan now needs 10 to 12 months, 2 to 3 months longer than the book took to write to edit and revise it? This is where we start running into fertilizer. This is where all the noxious odors come from. And, Harriet McDougal is the primary source.
  16. Or you can convolute the authors outright answer in order to validate your oppinion. RJ said it was the Caemlyn death that fulfilled the prophecy. Mat did not die in Rhuidean, clinically, technically, or any other form of death. He was alive. I always wondered whether or not Rand Healed Mat in that scene. Going entirely from memory here, and not even sure which book this might be from, but I believe that Healing is the only Talent about which Lews Therin has admitted to not being proficient. 99% ( to pick a reasonable number out of the air ) of Rand's Channeling comes straight from the memories of LTT, so Healing Mat seems unlikely.
  17. The Ashaman travelled right into the thick of the fighting, not the interior of the wagons. And at this point the Wise One's had barely started to learn how to use the power in battle. The Ashaman had only begun to learn as well, but they were specialized in it, and they were led by Taim who definitely knew what he was doing. The Ashaman also numbered at least a 100 more than the Wise Ones. The Aes Sedai also could not detect the Ashaman's channelling, and male channellers, considering their reputation, would have more effect on the Aes Sedai than Aiel channellers. Also, I doubt the Wise One's would have managed to be as ruthless as the Ashaman against the Shaido. The BT gets credit because the rescue would ultimately have failed without them. Even if the Wise One's had travelling, I doubt they could have managed what the Ashaman did. Taim's knowledge and experience had as much importance as travelling in my opinion. As for whether Taim is a darkfriend or not, it seems very, very likely. Mezar and Tarna's conditions, as well as the color scheme in Taim's palace, and even more telling, the sigil outside his palace, which is the same as Bel'al and Sammael's seem to leave little doubt, in my opinion. I will agree that Taim has been painted as a traitor. What bothers me is the obviousness of it all. I keep hoping for some subtlety from Jordan. If Taim does turn out to be Black it will just be more heavy-handed bludgeoning of the reader by the author. But, if he turns out not to be Black, then it will be one of the great red herrings ever. Notice that I don't claim he's Light. I just think he's a fundamentally selfish man with a large ego. As to it all being Taim. Not so much. It was Perrin who tracked Rand and his captors. It was Perrin who was prophesied to have to be there to save Rand, not Taim. And there is still one more time when Perrin must be there or Rand will fail. And most likely die. For nothing. yoniy0 Reread my post. One of my major points was that the Asha'man could Travel but the Wise One's could not. Not yet.
  18. Sorry, Terez, but I can't resist. Daryl K. Sweet's cover art and illustrations are universally loathed. Worldwide. The Foreign publishers insist upon creating their own covers. At extra expense to themselves. That's how universally loathed Sweet's covers are. Honoring his memory properly would be to ask a First Grader to color-up something original with the BIG Crayons. It's one more weak excuse heaped upon a pile of bad and questionable decisions being made by the people we are supposed to trust to make the book BETTER????
  19. It's okay; I'm still right. Well, if there was ever any doubt as to whether Terez is really female, this puts all such doubt to rest. Yes, Taim and the Asha'man played a very big part in Rand's rescue. But so did the Aiel loyal to the Car'a'carn. And their Wise Ones. And lets not forget Perrin and a few hundred others. The only reason the Black Tower gets to take so much of the credit is because they had Traveling and the Aiel Wise One's did not, as of yet. The Asha'man could Travel to the interior of the BA's circled wagons. Perrin and the loyal Aiel had to fight their way through the screening Shaido. While there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that Taim is Dark, Occam's Razor ( or maybe it's Malcolm's ) says that he's just an unpleasant man who has his own agenda and ambitions. Whatever the reality ( if such a term can legitimately be used when talking about a fantasy series ), Taim was very obviously NOT happy about being there and helping rescue Rand. He was obviously somebody who had gotten trapped into doing something he didn't particularly want to do.
  20. So, you see, it does come down to marketing after all. Or at least what somebody high-up at Tor thinks Marketing needs to be. The fact is the cover art is not going to sell the final volume of, as you describe it, "a well established series." We'd take it with nothing but the Black/White Yin/Yang Aes Sedai symbol for cover art. Somebody at Tor is stuck in second grade. Thinking that every book has to be marketed as though it were the only book. A standalone. When in actual fact this is the final volume of one of the longest series in fantasy history. It will rise or fall on the interest created in the series itself by the content of the previous 13 volumes, not because it's got some whiz-bang cover art. To delay the release for cover art is idiocy. Plain idiocy.
  21. I think the point Tom Sawyer may be trying to make is that now that Graendal has had her little "come to Shaidar Haran" meeting, those plans may be back on again. Her opportunity to lay lows and take no further part in things has gone poof, and she now needs to prove very useful in order to continue living.
  22. I've probably overlooked something crucial here, but I just don't see Sorilea as a BIG BADDIE. I think her plot purpose is to show how the Aiel differ from the Aes Sedai. With the AS everything is about how strong one is in the Power. With the Aiel it's all about how wise you are. How you handle responsibility and authority. There IS good evidence to strongly suggest that Amys is Dark. By extension that Darkness extends to Rhuarc and all of his Clan, including Sorilea, but I've seen nothing that made me go, "Oh yeah, she's a Black Hat!" when it comes to Sorilea. I've seen things that make me think she's not as wise as others believe. That she's shortsighted, thinking only about Aiel interests and not the interests of humanity as a whole. That makes her ultimately not-very-bright, but not certainly Dark. As to Amys and Sorilea's disagreement about the Wise One's fighting at Dumai's Wells, let's look at motivations. As detailed in other threads there is a very strong likelihood that Amys is Dark. Who is behind Rand's kidnapping? Mesaana, who is not only one of the Chosen but also Aes Sedai. Two reasons for Amys wanting to do nothing that might be taken as looking like opposition to her wishes. Wise One's fighting to free him would most certainly be openly opposing the wishes of an Aes Sedai who is also one of the Chosen. Amys would do everything in her power to prevent the Wise One's taking part, short of give the whole game away. Rather than arguing for Sorilea being Dark, her insistence that the Wise One's help free Rand is more an indication of her being Light.
  23. There's another commonplace anomaly with the series. There's lots of exposition about how the Aiel were isolated and inbred, resulting in a specific genotype. Saldaeans, Andorian, Cairheinen, etc. not so. Yet each has specific characteristics that anyone would either simply recognize as "foreign" or specific to their place of origin if they'd traveled widely. Some of it relates to clothing, but if you took an Aiel and dressed him as a Cairheinen, would anybody know the difference at-a-glance, given that the predominant superstition in the Wetlands is that all Aiel are "dark-eyed"? If we took a blonde Frenchman and dressed him in something ethnically Swedish, would anyone know just by looking at him that he was French? And, why is the predominant superstition that ALL Swedes are blonde? Yet somehow, Perrin and Egwene are supposed to realize that they could never pass as Saldaean. How? Does everybody in Saldaea have a prominent hooked nose? Why? They have a decent road system that connects them to the rest of the world. They trade and travel widely. Yet they somehow have their own inbred genotype?
  24. I think none of us want to see an ending that makes us go <yawn>. We want something clever, somewhat surprising, fantastic in almost every sense of the word, but not "Over the Top". I think we all want at least one "slap-yoursself-upside-the-head" moment where we say, "Now WHY didn't I see that coming?" Inevitably, those of us who have been with the series from the beginning are going to be disappointed. Nothing. And I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, can live-up to a 22 year build-up. Those who are relatively new to the series will probably not have that reaction because they haven't had to wait over 20 years for the other shoe to drop. They'll be relatively satisfied with however the series ends.
  25. Are you talking about Lost there? NO. He obviously means "A Boy Named Sue"
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