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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Jason Denzel

What was your favorite chapter / scene/quote?

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And speaking of balefire, it doesn't make it so you cannot be reborn. Whoever thinks that is wrong. It just means the DO can't transmigrate your soul into a new body.

 

Was it established somewhere that you can be reborn after being balefired?  I thought the whole POINT of balefire, and the reason that is was so disastrous to use, was that it removed that person or thing from the pattern - burned them out completely.  That was the reason they stopped using it in the Age of Legends - if you keep burning the pattern, it will fall apart.  I imagine that having your thread removed from the pattern would keep you from being spun back out.

 

Although, since balefire erases back in time, too, Rand should have kept the Choedan Kal and then gathered all the sa'angreal he could find, form a massive circle, and just balefire Lanfear so hard that it erases her back before she drilled into the Bore.  BAM!  Problem solved.  ;)

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has anyone considered the TP being how he seals the bore without tainting saidin and saidar?

 

i haven't started my first reread of TGS just yet :) still recovering from tuesdays marathon.

 

but i recall a pov of rand's where he mentioned needing something to help seal the bore. later he started down the "kill the DO" road, but im thinkin using the TP to sorta hold back the DO for the second he needs the use saidar & saidin to actually close the bore. kinda like putting your knee on an overstuffed duffle bag while you work to get teh zipper closed :)

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Concerning the Seanchan and Rand:

 

First off what the Aelfinn told Rand:

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

I feel that there is an important point here, The Aelfinn do not tell him that they must be as one under Rand!

 

 

Now if you go back to the beginning of chapter 49, "Just Another Man", and read through Rands POV carefully I feel that Rand notices some very important things about the Seanchan that will stear his decisions in the future.

(Rand has a lot of important thoughts here, I am just listing a few.)

 

Page 749:

"As long as a person wasn't able to channel, he or she could find stability here. Saftey.

That bothered him. They were his enemies. They were conquerors. He felt their lands shouldn't be peaceful. They should be terrible, full of suffering because of the tyrannical rule. But it wasn't like that at all."

Page 751:

"This did not seem like an oppressed people. There was no undercurrent of resentment. The Seanchan had a much better hold on Ebou Dar than Rand had on Bandar Eban, and the people here were happy- even prosperous!"

(Important thing here, go back and reread Rands POV about how he felt when he left Bandar Eban, how he felt about his failure in Arad Doman.(Beginning of Chapter 42)

 

Now considering where we leave Rand at the end of the book, which we are all assuming he has come back to a much better place, I feel that these thoughts and realizations Rand makes in Ebou Dar will come back to him.

In whatever form it ultimately ends up taking Rand will work with our use the Seanchan to bring order and peace. Not all the nations, but he will use them to unit one side, or the other, of the Aelfinn's answer to him.

 

~Devlin

 

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Now considering where we leave Rand at the end of the book, which we are all assuming he has come back to a much better place, I feel that these thoughts and realizations Rand makes in Ebou Dar will come back to him.

In whatever form it ultimately ends up taking Rand will work with our use the Seanchan to bring order and peace. Not all the nations, but he will use them to unit one side, or the other, of the Aelfinn's answer to him.

 

~Devlin

 

 

I could definitely see that.  Especially if he's planning to die, he may decide "Why not let the Seanchan stabilize the world for me?  Or at least the parts that I don't already have?"  In that regard, he IS in a sense serving the Crystal Throne, whether that prophecy is false or not, and even if he doesn't make peace with them (which he may), he still accomplishes his purpose of unity.

 

...plus, Mat will likely end up in charge of the Seanchan armies - if not because he's Tuon's husband and an incredible general (which she knows), then because HE sounded the Horn of Valere.  If he receives an endorsement from Artur Hawkwing, who led the Heroes of the Horn at Falme, the Seanchan WILL follow him.  After all, Tuon knows that he remembers Hawkwing's face - she maybe just doesn't realize, and maybe Mat forgot as well, that he remembers it from within his own lifetime.

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Now considering where we leave Rand at the end of the book, which we are all assuming he has come back to a much better place, I feel that these thoughts and realizations Rand makes in Ebou Dar will come back to him.

In whatever form it ultimately ends up taking Rand will work with our use the Seanchan to bring order and peace. Not all the nations, but he will use them to unit one side, or the other, of the Aelfinn's answer to him.

 

~Devlin

 

 

I could definitely see that.  Especially if he's planning to die, he may decide "Why not let the Seanchan stabilize the world for me?  Or at least the parts that I don't already have?"  In that regard, he IS in a sense serving the Crystal Throne, whether that prophecy is false or not, and even if he doesn't make peace with them (which he may), he still accomplishes his purpose of unity.

 

...plus, Mat will likely end up in charge of the Seanchan armies - if not because he's Tuon's husband and an incredible general (which she knows), then because HE sounded the Horn of Valere.  If he receives an endorsement from Artur Hawkwing, who led the Heroes of the Horn at Falme, the Seanchan WILL follow him.  After all, Tuon knows that he remembers Hawkwing's face - she maybe just doesn't realize, and maybe Mat forgot as well, that he remembers it from within his own lifetime.

 

Plus, there is no way in God's green flaming earth Mat Bloody Cauthon is going to let Bode get collared.

 

I think we all know that when the chips are down, there is nobody you'd rather have on your side than Mat, not even "loyal Perrin" or "liquid nuke wielding Rand"

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My absolute favorite would have to be chapter 16 In the White Tower when the Sitters with Elaida turn and realize that Egwene is calmly accepting what is clearly a savage beating without voicing a complaint, and managing to speak in a steady voice to then.

 

Veins of Gold was also a very good chapter. I've long been awaiting for Rand to laugh again, I can foresee him being humble enough to attempt to make peace with the Seanchan again, and it actually working this time. I think it fell apart here simply because of what he was doing to himself after being forced to draw on Saa to free himself.

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No worries about Bode.  She's with the rebels.  Replacing her on "cuendillar chain detail" is what got Egwene captured.

 

Yea, but I suspect when Mat learns that his sister's going to be an AS (he doesn't know yet, btw), the next time he hears Tuon mention "marath'damane", she will have killed the goat, and over his knee she will be.

 

And I think Selucia will probably just laugh, frankly.

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Chapter 22 has to be the best...Veins of Gold a close second and Rand's dream abt meeting with Moridin was also amazing..They both sat and talked like old friends and when Elan asked him why Rand had walked into his dream i was left shocked!!!!

 

I had a doubt...Tuon said tht Rand hadnt lost his eyes yet??Is it a part of their prophecy??If so was it twisted by Ishy or is it bound to happen??I remember Mins viewing abt Rand walking in beggars clothes with rags arnd his eyes (or was it Perrins dreams?).

 

The three becoming is a nice debating point.Is it related to Callandor or is it completely different??My 1st impression had been Rand LTT and Moridin becoming one....but thts definitely wrong now...any thoughts?

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No worries about Bode.  She's with the rebels.  Replacing her on "cuendillar chain detail" is what got Egwene captured.

 

Yea, but I suspect when Mat learns that his sister's going to be an AS (he doesn't know yet, btw), the next time he hears Tuon mention "marath'damane", she will have killed the goat, and over his knee she will be.

 

And I think Selucia will probably just laugh, frankly.

 

I think Mat does know.  Hafta reread the chunk where he goes to Salidar.  I believe Bode and the rest of the Emond's Field girls had just arrived.

 

Now, if/when Mat and Tuon meet again, if she said something like that, it would be really interesting to see what he'd do and what Selucia would do.

 

 

BTW.  There's a new place down the street.  Run by something called "The DO Consortium".  Called Souls R Us.  There's are freeze-dried.  Got Funding from Berkshire-Hathaway.  Joe al'Schmoe's got competition with DEEP pockets.

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They never got to Salidar, they don't reach the SAS until POD, in Murandy.

 

At that point, not only is Mat in Ebou Dar, but the SuperGirls have left for Caemlyn, meaning that no one could have told him.

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I was under the impression that the queen Tam mentioned was the Ghealdan Queen Alliandre.

 

No, it's Morgase.

 

Tam says it's the queen, only she's not queen anymore. Alliandre is still queen.

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They never got to Salidar, they don't reach the SAS until POD, in Murandy.

 

At that point, not only is Mat in Ebou Dar, but the SuperGirls have left for Caemlyn, meaning that no one could have told him.

 

I can't remember, but I thought Rand told him when he sent Mat to Salidar to fetch Elayne? I'm just going off memory here, so take with a grain of salt.

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They never got to Salidar, they don't reach the SAS until POD, in Murandy.

 

At that point, not only is Mat in Ebou Dar, but the SuperGirls have left for Caemlyn, meaning that no one could have told him.

 

I can't remember, but I thought Rand told him when he sent Mat to Salidar to fetch Elayne? I'm just going off memory here, so take with a grain of salt.

 

I have a similar memory.  I think it went by very quickly.

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You know what, I think you both might be right.

 

But, I can't recall Mat ever putting two and two together around Tuon.

 

I'm sure when his mind makes the connection, the goat's so flaming dead.

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I have to be honest that I liked many scenes in the novel but I was especially partial to Nynaeve's Ninja scene, ordering soldiers around, busting down doors, threatening the jailers, all to find Graendal's whereabouts.

 

She's yellow Ajah, but isn't afraid to get her hands dirty, kicking ass and taking names, doing what it takes to get the job done.

 

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I was under the impression that the queen Tam mentioned was the Ghealdan Queen Alliandre.

 

it was pretty specifically Morgase

from Pg 735

"The Queen?" Rand asked

"Aye" Tam said. "Though she says she's not queen anymore.  Elayne's Mother"

"She lives then?" Rand asked.

"She Does little thanks to the Whitecloaks," Tam said....

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I have a foretelling.

 

One of the more powerful statements in the book, when taken into account of Rand comeing back to his senses, is Mins statement in "Reading the Commentary", and just as important the effect it has on everyone in the room.

 

"This is what we all get, Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want."

The room fell still.

 

They all, including Cadsuane, know instantly Min is right!

 

Min has had this in her head for so long and I am so glad that she finally found the guts to say it out loud!

 

Now if Rand comes back changed the way I think he will and Mins words actually sink into these stubborn heads, well lets just say I am dieing to read the next book!

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I have a foretelling.

 

One of the more powerful statements in the book, when taken into account of Rand comeing back to his senses, is Mins statement in "Reading the Commentary", and just as important the effect it has on everyone in the room.

 

"This is what we all get, Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want."

The room fell still.

 

They all, including Cadsuane, know instantly Min is right!

 

Min has had this in her head for so long and I am so glad that she finally found the guts to say it out loud!

 

Now if Rand comes back changed the way I think he will and Mins words actually sink into these stubborn heads, well lets just say I am dieing to read the next book!

 

Nynaeve( slightly ), Min ( only recently ), Karede, and Ituralde are the only characters we've seen that demonstrate an ounce of sense.  After 300 years of being a bigoted bully, I aint bettin' Cadsuane is gonna "get it" in one go.

 

Sure would be nice though.

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I have a foretelling.

 

One of the more powerful statements in the book, when taken into account of Rand comeing back to his senses, is Mins statement in "Reading the Commentary", and just as important the effect it has on everyone in the room.

 

"This is what we all get, Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want."

The room fell still.

 

They all, including Cadsuane, know instantly Min is right!

 

Min has had this in her head for so long and I am so glad that she finally found the guts to say it out loud!

 

Now if Rand comes back changed the way I think he will and Mins words actually sink into these stubborn heads, well lets just say I am dieing to read the next book!

 

Nynaeve( slightly ), Min ( only recently ), Karede, and Ituralde are the only characters we've seen that demonstrate an ounce of sense.  After 300 years of being a bigoted bully, I aint bettin' Cadsuane is gonna "get it" in one go.

 

Sure would be nice though.

 

 

There's a reason Furyk Karede and now Tam Al'Thor are My Guys.

 

Tam's smack down of Cadsuane was absolutely necessary. I really like Cadsuane - I despise her methods, but if Nynaeve and Min had come to their senses earlier, we might have resolved this CrazyRand business ages ago - but she needs to be put in her place.

 

I mean more in the sense that she needs to swallow her pride in the same way that Rand needs to. I think that between Tam and her actually treating Sorilea as a complete equal, and admitting failure to Bair, Amys and Sorilea, she's putting herself on the road to being the kind of advisor I can admire without reservations.

 

I mean, I've always seen her as Judi Dench. I want her in the next two books to be M, not Lady Bracknell.

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I have a foretelling.

 

One of the more powerful statements in the book, when taken into account of Rand comeing back to his senses, is Mins statement in "Reading the Commentary", and just as important the effect it has on everyone in the room.

 

"This is what we all get, Min said, "for assuming we can make him do what we want."

The room fell still.

 

They all, including Cadsuane, know instantly Min is right!

 

Min has had this in her head for so long and I am so glad that she finally found the guts to say it out loud!

 

Now if Rand comes back changed the way I think he will and Mins words actually sink into these stubborn heads, well lets just say I am dieing to read the next book!

 

Nynaeve( slightly ), Min ( only recently ), Karede, and Ituralde are the only characters we've seen that demonstrate an ounce of sense.  After 300 years of being a bigoted bully, I aint bettin' Cadsuane is gonna "get it" in one go.

 

Sure would be nice though.

 

I am not saying Cadsuane will get it all in one go, but it is a push in the right direction, much as Rand finally took a step in the right direction.

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I mean more in the sense that she needs to swallow her pride in the same way that Rand needs to. I think that between Tam and her actually treating Sorilea as a complete equal, and admitting failure to Bair, Amys and Sorilea, she's putting herself on the road to being the kind of advisor I can admire without reservations.

 

 

I agree completely! And I have a feeling another thing that could possibly add to this dynamic, Moiraine!

I imagine that what she has gone through while trapped in the other world has changed her greatly, but also she had changed already before she got trapped.

After her whole experience I could see her standing up to Cadsuane and teaching her how to act proper!

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I really enjoyed this book. I enjoyed the character development that took place throughout the book. Veins of Gold being the best. Nynaeve, Perrin, Min, even Cadsuane(a little) showed growth.

 

Rand lost hope. He lost faith in mankind. He forgot what it meant to be human. Caring about someone doesn't make you weak, it makes you strong. There is always a chance of redemption. He finally realized this in the last chapter.

 

I agree with the Fisher King theory. Rand's darkness was negatively affecting the world. If Rand would have destroyed Tuon in Ebou Dar, the last battle would have been lost.

 

The meeting between Rand and Tuon was perfect. I don't believe Rand was using compulsion. I believe he was relying on him being Tavearyn(spelling). Compulsion is a weave, and you can't fight off a weave by will alone.

 

Egwene kicking major bootie was great. The AS are so damn petty, she had to put em in there place.

 

I didn't buy the whole Semirhage getting broken, by being being dismissed. Its not bad, i just don't buy it.

 

I also believe that Rand will somehow be able to use the TP to defeat the DO. Rand can tap into it because of his connection with Moridin.

 

What a great epic.

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I agree with a lot of the posters in that Verin's confession was great.  It's revelations like hers and Sheriam's that make me want to go back and re-read the whole series (yet again) to look at their words and actions in a new light.

 

Second favorite scene was from the prologue.  The Borderlanders feeling the call and answering it.  That and the jewel seller / Malkieri answering Nynaeve's summons are two of my favorites from all of the books.

 

While Matt wasn't exactly the Matt we know and love, I did like what we got of him.

 

Veins of Gold didn't do it for me though... too neat, too pat.  Is love what Cadsuane had to teach Rand?  Why do the Ashaman need to learn it?  They haven't gone around the bend like Rand had.

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