The Show Has Been Cancelled

[fearbrog]

4 hours ago, Blackbyrd said:

Anyone petty or belligerent enough to think otherwise or throw blame on some ‘woke’ agenda generated by a single person rather than the unseen hand of producers

Sure it's just coincidence that person's favorite character got multiple new hype moments, some of them somebody's else's, and all changes to her book scenes made her even stronger, a'dam, while all Rand's scenes taken away or changed to make him weaker.

[Blueberry]

Just saw this on insta, they answered a question about the book on the WoT show page. No responses to the flooding of comments about the show tho 

[Maximillion]

5 hours ago, Vambram said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2025/05/23/some-very-bad-news-for-wheel-of-time-season-4-as-amazon-does-the-unthinkable/

 

 

Here's something that the author of this Forbes.com article wrote which I find a lot of agreement with:

 

And while it’s obvious that the books and the show diverged in too many ways to list, I appreciated that the third season actually made for great TV. This is in stark contrast to the steaming pile of orc manure that is Amazon’s other big fantasy show, The Rings Of Power.

 

For whatever reason – pride, perhaps – Amazon has renewed Rings Of Power despite its massive decline in viewership, while cancelling the wildly superior Wheel Of Time. Truly, I will never understand the decisions these streaming executives make.

 

Sure, there are many ways that Wheel Of Time could have been better. While there was no feasible way to stick to the letter of the source material, a lot of the changes were definitely questionable, even in Season 3. Obviously, it would have been great if the first season had been stronger so that more fans stuck around as the show improved. But the cast was really starting to come into its own by Season 3, and all the talented actors and design team that made Season 3 the strongest yet deserved a chance at making Season 4 and beyond. Not finishing the story is a real slap in the face to all the loyal fans who did stick around.

Perhaps live-action is not the best way to adapt these long, ultimately very expensive, fantasy epics. An animated Wheel Of Time, for instance, could stick closer to the source material while costing a fraction of what a live-action series costs. Amazon’s best fantasy series, The Legend Of Vox Machina, proves that you can do a lot more with fantasy when it’s animated while still capturing all the life and action and magic of the story.

 

 

 

Agree on the animation approach.

 

As for it being too difficult to stick to the source material, I find this to be somewhat of a cop out.

I heard Judkins talk about how with 8 seasons of 8 episodes he could not stick closely to the books, yet he somehow found time to waste hours on things not even in the books.  Also, the fact he didn't stick to the nature of some of the characters in the books show he was not interested in telling Jordan's story regardless of time limitations.

[Blackbyrd]

4 hours ago, fearbrog said:

Sure it's just coincidence that person's favorite character got multiple new hype moments, some of them somebody's else's, and all changes to her book scenes made her even stronger, a'dam, while all Rand's scenes taken away or changed to make him weaker.

Make him weaker? Please? Did they mess up by not using him in Tarwins Gap? Did they absolutely not make Falme - one of the top endings in the books- what it should be? To say it makes him weaker? And i mean- I don’t make it personal in my critic- so no, it didn’t make Rand ‘weaker’. I literally just reread the first five books- would you really like to debate weakness with me? Please go sound off and cry harder somewhere else.  I have no tears for you and thinking Rand was weak in this. Misplayed? I think so. Underutilized? Probably. But weaker? Please

 

 note: Actually thought Stradowski  did really well with Rand. Misplayed is of the texture of production

Edited May 25 by Blackbyrd

[Sr neckbeard]

Mothers milk in a cup !

[divica]

4 hours ago, Blackbyrd said:

Make him weaker? Please? Did they mess up by not using him in Tarwins Gap? Did they absolutely not make Falme - one of the top endings in the books- what it should be? To say it makes him weaker? And i mean- I don’t make it personal in my critic- so no, it didn’t make Rand ‘weaker’. I literally just reread the first five books- would you really like to debate weakness with me? Please go sound off and cry harder somewhere else.  I have no tears for you and thinking Rand was weak in this. Misplayed? I think so. Underutilized? Probably. But weaker? Please

 

 note: Actually thought Stradowski  did really well with Rand. Misplayed is of the texture of production

are you being sarcastic? because in the first 2 books rand does so many things in the finals that they cut or gave to other people that you can't even compare. just looking at the first season, rand's grand gesture was to not wanting to live in a fantasy world with his perfect version of egg (even in the end they made rand all about egg). compare that to the first book...

[Goathill]

On 5/24/2025 at 3:16 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

yet you lay any blame squarely on the Rafe.

As showrunner the buck stops with him, he get the glory if it is a hit, he also gets the blame when it fails. See Dan and Dave from GoT, they went from heroes to zeros.

 

Showrunners generally quit if they feel the show is being taken down the wrong path by Execs, they also have the power to fire bad writers, so yes he gets the blame.

[Elendir]

Show was cutting off all my favorite scenes in book, from first season to its last. That's why this show is rather disappointing to me. However, even though you wouldn't get a positive word from me about the showrunner, I've seen a lot of well-done work around it.

So, I'm sad for other folks around show, even though season 3 didn't bring anything I wanted from it.

PS: I lived under the impression that the popularity of book 4 was due to the chemistry between Rand and a aiels, specifically the spear maidens. I also don't understand why it would be better for Nyn to get her ass kicked instead of winning in confrontation with Moghedien.

Do you really believe that the show failed because of money and time and not because of a flawed concept?

 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Elendir said:

Do you really believe that the show failed because of money and time and not because of a flawed concept?

yes

[Elendir]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

yes

 

I guess the showrunner would have responded the same way you did, at least before the show was canceled.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Elendir said:

 

I guess the showrunner would have responded the same way you did, at least before the show was canceled.

As, I'm certain, would plenty of other people.

[Elendir]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

As, I'm certain, would plenty of other people.

 

A person cannot grow if they only see faults in the things around them instead of their own actions.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Elendir said:

 

A person cannot grow if they only see faults in the things around them instead of their own actions.

I'm not certain how that is relevant to this conversation, but ok.

[Sophyamarlene]

I’m absolutely gutted. I loved the show I’m one of the rare people who loved it in total. I love the books as well. I always enjoy seeing my favorite books turned in to film/tv and get to see it as if in a parallel dimension. Beloved characters doing similar but new and exciting things. And for WOT delivered that in spades. Love the entire cast as well. Just devastating.

[Samt]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm not certain how that is relevant to this conversation, but ok.

If there was truly no way for the show to be better, then it was doomed from the start.  In that case, the failure was not seeing the folly of trying to make the show. In other words, the makers of the show are at fault.  The excuses serve no purpose.

[Elder_Haman]

10 minutes ago, Samt said:

If there was truly no way for the show to be better, then it was doomed from the start.

Who said this? Not me. 

 

10 minutes ago, Samt said:

The excuses serve no purpose.

Which excuses are you referring to?

 

While it’s true that the buck ultimately stops at the showrunner and therefore any failure can be placed at his feet, the argument that it’s solely his failure is silly and reductive. 
 

Why, for example, did WoT get cancelled when the inferior RoP gets three more seasons? Is that on the showrunner?

 

Is the showrunner to blame for the terrible marketing? For every decision imposed by studio executives? 
 

You’re drastically underestimating the complexities of the process. 

[Mailman]

37 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Who said this? Not me. 

 

Which excuses are you referring to?

 

While it’s true that the buck ultimately stops at the showrunner and therefore any failure can be placed at his feet, the argument that it’s solely his failure is silly and reductive. 
 

Why, for example, did WoT get cancelled when the inferior RoP gets three more seasons? Is that on the showrunner?

 

Is the showrunner to blame for the terrible marketing? For every decision imposed by studio executives? 
 

You’re drastically underestimating the complexities of the process. 

I have watched maybe 2 episodes in total of RoP and was not impressed it's ratings are lower than WoT but it's viewership has not fallen like WoT at least according to the numbers I could find from Nielsen.

 

WoT s1e1-3 1.15B

Wot s2e1-3 515M

WoT s3e1-3 534M

 

RoP s1e1-3 1.25B

RoP s2e1-3 1.015B

 

50% loss of viewership that never returned even the critically panned and I would argue much more actively attacked RoP (in comparison with WoT)  fared far far better. RoP has had large marketing issues as well you have only to look at the bizarre mega fans/influencers event where the people they invited had incomplete knowledge and even had a vision of a man urinating in a background shot.

 

Quality does not always translate to renewal otherwise every piece of reality television would be burned from existence and Firefly would have run for 15 seasons.

 

Yes I think vanity and other issues may have played a part in RoP getting renewed but it also has a far larger audience and retention of said audience.

 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Mailman said:

vanity and other issues may have played a part in RoP getting renewed but it also has a far larger audience and retention of said audience.

Incorrect. Amazon is contractually obligated to air five seasons. 

[Mailman]

18 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Incorrect. Amazon is contractually obligated to air five seasons. 

 

Ah ok I thought you said in a previous post that they had gotten a 3 season renewal.

 

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Why, for example, did WoT get cancelled when the inferior RoP gets three more seasons? 

 

Sorry if I misread a five season run for a 3 season renewal.

[NetSlider]

Honestly I’m surprised about all the discussion of what could fit into the show and so on. In reality, imo, the show simply was not WOT at all. The whole point, literally the whole point of WOT, is a redemption story. See Veins of Gold chapter. So when the show doesn’t get the Two Rivers right, the rest simply falls apart. The message of WOT is basically: innocence, loss of innocence, mistakes, shame/self blame, self forgiveness, second chance, redemption. And it applies to basically every major character of the books. In other words, WOT is basically a complicated quest story. So, when Two Rivers is shown as some kind  of a dark place, it was over for the whole formula. How can you have the arcs if the starting point is missing. Rafe and the team of genius simply didn’t get it, and I’m being generous. More likely, they were trying to be more edgy like GOT. Problem is, WOT is not GOT. 🤦‍♂️ btw, GOT would have also failed if they try to make it more like WOT for some reason (can you imagine…?). Anyways, good riddance. I’m hoping that a good anime (or something like it) will be made in my lifetime. Or, a really good video game. 
 

Side note: the only right way to open the first episode was with the original prolog, and I’ll die on this hill. The fact that they didn’t do it speaks volumes. 

[Blueberry]

1 hour ago, NetSlider said:

Honestly I’m surprised about all the discussion of what could fit into the show and so on. In reality, imo, the show simply was not WOT at all. The whole point, literally the whole point of WOT, is a redemption story. See Veins of Gold chapter. So when the show doesn’t get the Two Rivers right, the rest simply falls apart. The message of WOT is basically: innocence, loss of innocence, mistakes, shame/self blame, self forgiveness, second chance, redemption. And it applies to basically every major character of the books. In other words, WOT is basically a complicated quest story. So, when Two Rivers is shown as some kind  of a dark place, it was over for the whole formula. How can you have the arcs if the starting point is missing. Rafe and the team of genius simply didn’t get it, and I’m being generous. More likely, they were trying to be more edgy like GOT. Problem is, WOT is not GOT. 🤦‍♂️ btw, GOT would have also failed if they try to make it more like WOT for some reason (can you imagine…?). Anyways, good riddance. I’m hoping that a good anime (or something like it) will be made in my lifetime. Or, a really good video game. 
 

Side note: the only right way to open the first episode was with the original prolog, and I’ll die on this hill. The fact that they didn’t do it speaks volumes. 

 

I wish they would have done the prologue the opening too, among other scenes.  I look at the show as another turning or interpretation of the wheel. The books could  considered this too in theory, since they're narrated from a third person perspective but influenced by each characters personality and emotions. 

 

I'd personally like to see the show finished because I enjoyed S3, but an animation would be a nice fresh start for the IP as well 

[Sabio]

There is blame enough for the show not getting renewed, too few episodes a season, poor time management in the episodes, COVID, some bad additions, poor attention to quality like messing up Mats dagger in season 1 and season 2, an actor quitting, poor CGI etc fans too unaccepting of changes,  I don't put all the blame all on Rafe, the writers or too hardcore fans.  

 

ROP will always have an advantage in that Amazon is pretty limited what they are allowed to use, so they have to make a lot of it up.  There is less fan backlash about staying true.

Edited May 26 by Sabio

[EmreY]

Sad to see.  I had really begun to enjoy the adaptation.

[Blueberry]

41 minutes ago, EmreY said:

Sad to see.  I had really begun to enjoy the adaptation.

 

Apparently there's a fandom effort to get it shopped around by sony at:

 

https://savewot.com/take-action/

 

 

 

[Sabio]

I wouldn't put too much faith in Sony at the moment; they have been causing disaster after disaster lately.