The biggest problem is the tone, just doesn’t feel like The Wheel of Time

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

The he thing that made me really enjoy Peter Jackson’s LOTR was that despite the departures from the books the story was told in the same tone as the novels and so it still felt like LOTR

 

Same went for Game of Thrones, the books had a darker tone and thus so did the show so it felt like the same world and the same story. 
 
WOT by contrast just does not have the same tone as the books. It feels like they are trying to tell the story of WOT in the tone of GOT and it just feels off, despite some familiar characters and scenes it just doesn’t feel like the same story. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 1:45 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

The he thing that made me really enjoy Peter Jackson’s LOTR was that despite the departures from the books the story was told in the same tone as the novels and so it still felt like LOTR

 

Same went for Game of Thrones, the books had a darker tone and thus so did the show so it felt like the same world and the same story. 
 
WOT by contrast just does not have the same tone as the books. It feels like they are trying to tell the story of WOT in the tone of GOT and it just feels off, despite some familiar characters and scenes it just doesn’t feel like the same story. 

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Agree 100%. I’ve been saying this since day 1.  They tried to make this show something different than the books and it is Wheel of Time in name only, a façade.

[Turin Turambar]

I disagree. I think especially this season we are seeing more and more of the characters in lighter moments  which gives me more of a book feel. Even the more serious dialogue has felt in character. 

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

  On 4/4/2025 at 1:35 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I disagree. I think especially this season we are seeing more and more of the characters in lighter moments  which gives me more of a book feel. Even the more serious dialogue has felt in character. 

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I do agree that the show has gotten better with each season and I hold out hope that it will turn out to be the exact opposite of GOT in that it will start out disappointing and end awesome. 

[Kaleb]

  On 4/4/2025 at 1:35 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I disagree. I think especially this season we are seeing more and more of the characters in lighter moments  which gives me more of a book feel. Even the more serious dialogue has felt in character. 

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Totally agreed with this. A big issue is that WoT doesn't have a consistent tone the way LOTR does (haven't read ASOIAF). Jordan was just so good at writing different perspectives, and a Mat chapter feels different from and Elayne chapter which is different from a Graendel chapter, etc. Even in TEOTW, we'll have legit horror scenes with Ba'alzamon terrifying Rand in a  dream chamber built of human skulls, and then Rand will wake up and be grumpy with Moiraine or something really mundane and silly. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 2:36 PM, Kaleb said:

Totally agreed with this. A big issue is that WoT doesn't have a consistent tone the way LOTR does (haven't read ASOIAF). Jordan was just so good at writing different perspectives, and a Mat chapter feels different from and Elayne chapter which is different from a Graendel chapter, etc. Even in TEOTW, we'll have legit horror scenes with Ba'alzamon terrifying Rand in a  dream chamber built of human skulls, and then Rand will wake up and be grumpy with Moiraine or something really mundane and silly. 

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It was the juxtaposition of the naieve/idyllic upbringing the the EF group with the horror of the Enemy that makes the difference in times work in the book.  The tone changes as the kids grow.  They were to WoT what the Hobbits and the Shire were to LotR.  But instead, we started this show off from the very first episode with a Shire where the Hobbits are thieves, drunks, adulterers, pushing their women off cliffs into a river, casually sleeping with each other, etc.  if you can’t at least recognize that that is a change of tone then there is no way to even debate the merits of it.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

  On 4/4/2025 at 2:57 PM, Mirefox said:

It was the juxtaposition of the naieve/idyllic upbringing the the EF group with the horror of the Enemy that makes the difference in times work in the book.  The tone changes as the kids grow.  They were to WoT what the Hobbits and the Shire were to LotR.  But instead, we started this show off from the very first episode with a Shire where the Hobbits are thieves, drunks, adulterers, pushing their women off cliffs into a river, casually sleeping with each other, etc.  if you can’t at least recognize that that is a change of tone then there is no way to even debate the merits of it.

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It is rather difficult to debate the tone of the books with someone that thinks the unique flavour of WoT is that it starts exactly like LoTR. The kids don't grow up - they are already adults. How does the whole Two Rivers grow up with them? Jordan steered the story away from the Two Rivers is the Shire into the real WoT story line and tone. 

 

I think things like no casual sex means more to you than it does to the story. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:14 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

It is rather difficult to debate the tone of the books with someone that thinks the unique flavour of WoT is that it starts exactly like LoTR. The kids don't grow up - they are already adults. How does the whole Two Rivers grow up with them? Jordan steered the story away from the Two Rivers is the Shire into the real WoT story line and tone. 

 

I think things like no casual sex means more to you than it does to the story. 

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First, it was one example of many in the show, I just went right back to the start.

 

Second, they were between 17-19 when the books start.  They were kids.

 

Third, I’m sorry for you that you read over 4 millions words’ worth of novels and didn’t see any character growth from Eye of the World to A Memory of Light.

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:21 PM, Mirefox said:

Second, they were between 17-19 when the books start.  They were kids.

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17-to 19-year-olds aren't 'kids' in any jurisdiction anywhere on this planet.

 

 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:25 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

17-to 19-year-olds aren't 'kids' in any jurisdiction anywhere on this planet.

 

 

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If you’re being a legalistic ass, maybe.  If you’re an adult and come across a 17 year old, they are a kid in every way possible.  

[DigificWriter]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:29 PM, Mirefox said:

If you’re being a legalistic ass, maybe.  If you’re an adult and come across a 17 year old, they are a kid in every way possible.  

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That's not how age works. 

[Mirefox]

  On 4/4/2025 at 4:44 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

That's not how age works. 

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It’s how maturity works, hence the word “kid” instead of “minor.”

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

You see what I mean about it being difficult to debate? The men are 20 (or near enough) at the beginning of the story, not 17. They are adults, not children, not kids, except in the laziest meaning of the word. 

 

And yes the characters mature - but does the Two Rivers? You tied the Two Rivers to being the Shire and the EF5 being hobbits. How do you mature out of that? And it has nothing to do with the tone of the books, taking that they come from a rural backwater with puritanical attitudes to nudity and premarital sex is hardly the tone of the books, it is a minor detail - as you point out they mature past much of it. It is in no way an argument that the traditions in the Two Rivers are any better than that of the Borderlands or Mayene for example. They are just meant to be rural and ill-educated in the ways of the world outside the Two Rivers which I think is a normal feature of the Hero's Journey which is also included in the show. 

 

There is no moral tale there. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:21 PM, Mirefox said:

Second, they were between 17-19 when the books start.  They were kids.

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Per the Books, the year at the start of the Eye of the world was 998

Rand, Mat, and Perrin were between 19 and 20. Rand officially turned 20 by sometime around Chapter ~49 of The Great Hunt.

 

Rand was born in 2 Danu 978 NE (~19-20)
Mat was born in 978 NE (~19-20)
Perrin was born in 978 NE (~19-20)

Egwene was born in 981 NE (~16-17)

Elayne was born in 981 NE (~16-17)

Nynaeve was born in 974 NE (~23-24)

Min was born in 975 NE (~22-23)

Since WoT is not a medieval time period, but something closer to renaissance... Think ~1300s-1600s, people in the cities did still marry young, but child brides were... probably far less common as they were a few centuries prior...

 

But even in the two rivers, as per the books... Rand, Mat, and Perrin were all very much eligible bachelors, and the Women's council were on their ass about getting married and settling down... for good reason. 16/17 was about the age they were looking for them to enter into their tradition of "wait a "year and a day" before marriage. (betrothed at 16, get married at 17...)

 

They didn't like having eligible bachelors like Tam sitting around, potentially causing a ruckus (Mat) with all the girls in town.

[DavyDrones]

  On 4/4/2025 at 1:45 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

The he thing that made me really enjoy Peter Jackson’s LOTR was that despite the departures from the books the story was told in the same tone as the novels and so it still felt like LOTR

 

Same went for Game of Thrones, the books had a darker tone and thus so did the show so it felt like the same world and the same story. 
 
WOT by contrast just does not have the same tone as the books. It feels like they are trying to tell the story of WOT in the tone of GOT and it just feels off, despite some familiar characters and scenes it just doesn’t feel like the same story. 

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I don't know where I read it but Amazon wanted WOT to be for mature audience and ROP not.

[Sabio]

GOT clearly had a huge influence, hence the darker tone of the series, In season 1 BS said he had to talk them out of making the Tinkers darker, he had to explain to them that was the exact opposite of what RJ had the Tinkers being.  I think there are many who think to make a series they need to follow the GOT model just like so many games tried to be World of Warcraft.

[Guire]

  On 5/28/2025 at 7:05 PM, Sabio said:

GOT clearly had a huge influence, hence the darker tone of the series, In season 1 BS said he had to talk them out of making the Tinkers darker, he had to explain to them that was the exact opposite of what RJ had the Tinkers being.  I think there are many who think to make a series they need to follow the GOT model just like so many games tried to be World of Warcraft.

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I think a darker tone would have been easier to make a popular adaptation out of WoT.  May not be my preferred but it plays well into early books from visual perspective.  

[Agitel]

As someone with an optimistic on season three, I agree with the thread premise. The tone never really matched the feeling I got from the books. Not just plot beats and plot changes or character changes. The tone was just something different than my take on the WoT. 

 

And I grew to accept that. 

 

But if the question for me is just whether or not the tone was the same, it definitely wasn't for me. 

[expat]

  On 5/28/2025 at 7:05 PM, Sabio said:

GOT clearly had a huge influence, hence the darker tone of the series, In season 1 BS said he had to talk them out of making the Tinkers darker, he had to explain to them that was the exact opposite of what RJ had the Tinkers being.  I think there are many who think to make a series they need to follow the GOT model just like so many games tried to be World of Warcraft.

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I may be an outlier, but I don't think that the tone is darker.  In the book, the cold open was the torture and suicide of LTT.  The first couple of pages of book one described the dangers of the wolves coming down from the Misty Mountains and the Nazgul watching the Shire and the hobbits.  It never got lighter in tone.  In a book series as long as WoT, the sheer time it takes to read the books softened the feeling of the dark tone a little, but it remained dark throughout.  One of my issues with the books was that it never established the joy and happiness in the world prior to the return of the Dark One.  It also never grieved the loss of the old world as the final battle loomed.

 

A TV series has to cram a lot of content into a very short amount of time, so it might seem darker because the same content is presented in rapid fire fashion with little filler material in=between.  There is no time to dull the darkness.

 

In contrast, the series spent the first half of the first episode on showing the joy of the world.  There were a few other scenes sprinkled in showing what was being lost through the shadow war.  Not much, but still better than the books. I did appreciate that the show symbolically grieved the loss of the old world through Steppin's funeral scene. I understand that I might be the only person who interpreted this scene that way.

[Sabio]

I see the tone as being really dark, just look at season 3 the wedding massacre, how Morgase took the throne.  People being burnt at the stake, watching a grey man get made, ummm what happened to Samm.  Or first season Perin killing his wife, Mats dad a drunken womanizer, or what the tinkers were going to be.  It's not all bad but to me they clearly took it to a darker place.  

[zacz1987]

Morgase is one character which I really disliked in the show. Her personality is completely changed and not for the better. The show made her seem like a tyrant and this was before Rahvin was effecting her in any way. 

 

Yes she fought in the Succession war and won but having the other noble families kill their own house heads was just not needed. It was just done for shock value on the show and nothing else. In the books Morgase is described as a kind and good leader until she becomes compelled by a forsaken.

[Bodewhin]

  On 4/4/2025 at 1:45 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

The he thing that made me really enjoy Peter Jackson’s LOTR was that despite the departures from the books the story was told in the same tone as the novels and so it still felt like LOTR

 

Same went for Game of Thrones, the books had a darker tone and thus so did the show so it felt like the same world and the same story. 
 
WOT by contrast just does not have the same tone as the books. It feels like they are trying to tell the story of WOT in the tone of GOT and it just feels off, despite some familiar characters and scenes it just doesn’t feel like the same story. 

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  On 4/4/2025 at 11:34 AM, Mirefox said:

Agree 100%. I’ve been saying this since day 1.  They tried to make this show something different than the books and it is Wheel of Time in name only, a façade.

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It's really nice to see I was not the only one who felt this way. It's what I told my brother was my biggest hangup with the series on the whole when we watched it - the tone never felt like WOT. It has nothing to do with what happens when adapting from book to screen, you can have a departure from source in various ways and still get the tone right.

I agree completely.

[nsmallw]

On 5/28/2025 at 3:05 PM, Sabio said:

GOT clearly had a huge influence, hence the darker tone of the series, In season 1 BS said he had to talk them out of making the Tinkers darker, he had to explain to them that was the exact opposite of what RJ had the Tinkers being. 

 

In the show, the first minute of the meeting between Perrin/Egwene with the Tinkers began with the Tinkers being shown as ominous and potentially dangerous, so it seems the producers did accede to Amazon's wishes if only briefly. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

  On 5/29/2025 at 3:59 PM, expat said:

One of my issues with the books was that it never established the joy and happiness in the world prior to the return of the Dark One. 

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The point was that the dark one had not been fully contained and that the world had just endured 3000+ years when the natural order and balance had been broken due to the taint on the male part of the true source.  While there were areas and periods of relative peace there was deliberately no widespread "joy and happiness" in the books - the slight shire-ness of the two rivers from Rand's POV in the first book was a facade (and even there the threat of the dark one is acknowledged in the mentions of not wanting to name him).  Later flashbacks to the age of legends in the "road to the spear" and in Rand's later inner monologues give enough of an impression of the state of things prior to the making of the bore but the novels are about the world of the third age, not that of the age of legends (which would be very dull).

[WoTwasThat]

The whole “tone” thing is a valid criticism, but it could refer to several different things…

 

I agree that Rafe’s decision to “age up” the characters right out of the gate was a mistake. Rand and Egwene having sex in the first episode - or the allusion to it - didn’t sit well with me. Same for Perrin having a wife. Neither was a huge deal for me but just a few of the several “uh oh, they’re going a very different direction” moments early on. So in that sense the tone of the show was “darker” I guess. And keep in mind I’m only speaking to the first season because I dropped out a couple episodes into season 2.

 

And I actually hoped the show would go darker in terms of fleshing out the Forsaken and making them more nuanced and competent than the sometimes cartoon villains in the books. 

 

But I also thought the “tone” had a way more “Young Adult” vibe than GOT just in the way it was lit/shot/produced. GOT always looked dirty, lived in, and real. WOT looked too clean, pretty, and fake. I don’t work in film so I cannot tell you why it looked that way, but it just did. It looked like one of those cheaply produced YA shows you’d see on a budget network like the CW, etc.

 

So end of the day, there was a lot about this show which just seemed off. And this was before even getting to the massive changes to the story and lore which is a different but possibly related issue.

 

Put all this together, and it really isn’t a surprise to me that the show failed. The surprise was that it even got three seasons. I genuinely believe that if they had stuck closer to the books, really engaged with the lore the same way the EOTW book did, and filmed it in a “realer” grittier style, the show would have been a smashing success.