How did the show hold up for you?

[Pandemonium]

The females were empowered so much in season 1 they forgot to empower the men.

 

1.  Lan being pretty much useless and bumbling most of his assignments

2.  Perrin killing his own wife and doing just about nothing the rest of the season.  had to be rescued by Egwene from Valda, just stood there without trying to stop Fain from stealing the horn.

3.  Rand having all his scenes stolen from him, never learning the sword, never having Male bonding with Lan.  They tried so hard to ignore Rand that no one has any idea of his strength yet.  

4.  Matt had some decent scenes early on but pretty much not doing anything other stealing a tainted dagger and then getting sick.  His only highlight was helping his sisters

5.  Loial did pretty much nothing other than guide in the ways, get drunk with Min. and then get stabbed by Fain.

6.  Agelmar, top 5 general, looked pretty useless.  All in all I would say he is probably stabbed but not dead.

 

 

Badass male scenes were given for scenes not in the book such as Steppin and Logaine.  The female scenes were needlessly overpowered.  Nynaeve healing everyone instaneously, Amalisa destroying a whole Trolloc army while her brother was useless, Egwene healing near death Nynaeve, etc

 

They need to do some major work in season 2 to balance all this out.

 

I was pretty surprised some of the big wot channels such as WOTup given 5/10 review for episode 8.  Not the great episode we need for hype into season 2.  I was hoping for a lot more.  I'm very happy WOT did good numbers, but Rafe really needs to make major improvements on this show.  

[king of nowhere]

5 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

Many people prefer the show to the book…Weird I know, I personally don’t understand how unless they haven’t actually read more than a chapter or three of the book,  just like the show’s directors.

i don't know, maybe because the first half of the book looks like yet another LotR ripoff, the relationships feel completely unnatural, and the ending has a lot of problems and the author himself disliked it?

 

everyone telling how great wot is, they are thinking of the whole saga. the first book, taken alone? it was average. certainly no better than a lot of other fantasy i read, worse than some. wot greatly improved after that.

 

the show did great in trying to cut the lotr parallels, and in trying to expand the world earlier. 

unfortunately, the writing could have been improved, and a lot of details are poorly managed. lack of time was the major issue. those factors alone are keeping the show from being actually better than the book.

 

I'm curious about later seasons, where the books become much better. will they still change so much, or will they try to get back on track?

[Sabio]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:42 AM, DaddyFinn said:

Angry hardcore book fans have just review bombed it worse than any other episode. It is obviously neither 10/10 nor 1/10

 

Episode 8 to me was the worst.  Which saying alot because I wasn't a big fan of the first few episodes and the horrible pacing.  But thought it was getting better and then Episode 8 dropped.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sabio

[Raal Gurniss]

5 hours ago, dielsalder said:

I'll start by saying I've read The Eye of the World well over 20 times in the last 30 years, I'm kind of a fan and I haven't been looking forward to the show. I knew it would have to be heavily paired down in order to make a show that didn't take 30 episode for the book. I was ready for deletions and shortcuts. I didn't like them when I started watching, but I understood they were 'needed'. What I wasn't prepared for was loads of time wasted on made up junk that doesn't happen. Obviously not a single writer cared about ruining one of the best pieces of fiction written in our lives.

 

I stopped watching the final episode before it ended and am not going to watch this lame show again. I'm considering canceling my Amazon Prime. The filming, acting, and special effects are good but the story is hot garbage. With that said- Micheal Clarkson, Paul Clarkson, Rafe Judkins, Celine Song, Amanda Kate Shuman, Justine Juel Gillmer, Dave Hill, Katherine B. McKenna, and Kameron Hood are all hacks and have committed crimes against great fiction. They're like dogs trying to rewrite Shakespeare by rolling in their excrement. This show should go the way of the Legend of the Seeker- canceled and hated by fans of the books. 

 

The show is a black mark on Jordan's legacy. Sad.

Pretty much my opinion and I also couldn’t finish the last episode! I left my first review on Amazon(something I have never previously done and not something I want to repeat).

 

If people like it thats fine by me, but it’s not my cup of tea, which is strange because I really love tea!

[Raal Gurniss]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

i don't know, maybe because the first half of the book looks like yet another LotR ripoff, the relationships feel completely unnatural, and the ending has a lot of problems and the author himself disliked it?

 

everyone telling how great wot is, they are thinking of the whole saga. the first book, taken alone? it was average. certainly no better than a lot of other fantasy i read, worse than some. wot greatly improved after that.

 

the show did great in trying to cut the lotr parallels, and in trying to expand the world earlier. 

unfortunately, the writing could have been improved, and a lot of details are poorly managed. lack of time was the major issue. those factors alone are keeping the show from being actually better than the book.

 

I'm curious about later seasons, where the books become much better. will they still change so much, or will they try to get back on track?

Sadly I am fully expecting more of the same, I cannot see how they can now change tack to the point it would make a difference..

 

I hope they do, but I am 99.99% certain they won’t…

 

 

[LedZepMan]

So, so bad. Awful through and through

[Scarloc99]

10 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

 

Many people prefer the show to the book…Weird I know, I personally don’t understand how unless they haven’t actually read more than a chapter or three of the book,  just like the show’s directors.

I know many people over the years I have learnt books 1 and 2 to who told me they wouldn’t read any further because it was too much like lord of the rings. Several of those same people have told me they love the tv series, one has told me that if the book was more like the series he might have read more. 
 

Now I don’t agree with him but it is interesting, and is a reminder that Rafe had to find a way to entice and encourage people who don’t usually watch fantasy to watch this. 

[Ryrin]

8 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

Indeed.  I had no idea people were so attached to the books.  And I suppose some will be surprised that I'm not.

We are attached at least to a semblance of Robert Jordan’s writing to the point we can recognize it. 

[Raal Gurniss]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I know many people over the years I have learnt books 1 and 2 to who told me they wouldn’t read any further because it was too much like lord of the rings. Several of those same people have told me they love the tv series, one has told me that if the book was more like the series he might have read more. 
 

Now I don’t agree with him but it is interesting, and is a reminder that Rafe had to find a way to entice and encourage people who don’t usually watch fantasy to watch this. 

At what cost though? I mean it’s going to be a % thing, what they gain will be mitigated by what they lose, doubly worse so for book sales as those that like the series for the reason you mention won’t like the books and people put off by the series also are unlikely to buy the book….There is even going to be a % that will be alienated against the lot.

 

Sad to say but I think the TV show has done harm on the whole..Time will tell next year.

[VooDooNut]

1 minute ago, Raal Gurniss said:

At what cost though? I mean it’s going to be a % thing, what they gain will be mitigated by what they lose, doubly worse so for book sales as those that like the series for the reason you mention won’t like the books and people put off by the series also are unlikely to buy the book….There is even going to be a % that will be alienated against the lot.

 

Sad to say but I think the TV show has done harm on the whole..Time will tell next year.

The show has done nothing (or 0%) to tarnish my opinion of the books. The books are wonderful. The show is an artistic (read: subjective) adaptation of the books. I like them both and hope the show will continue to grow and improve for many seasons to come.

[Raal Gurniss]

2 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

The show has done nothing (or 0%) to tarnish my opinion of the books. The books are wonderful. The show is an artistic (read: subjective) adaptation of the books. I like them both and hope the show will continue to grow and improve for many seasons to come.

Hopefully you are/will be right…

 

But I still have doubts, I think it will be as I say! I don’t want the show cancelled just because it’s not my cup of tea, I am not that selfish! World doesn’t revolve around my tastes etc.

As for the books, there will be an amount of people that would love the books but will be put off even trying them because of the show, just as some will be attracted because of the show don’t know the amounts yet…But as we have seen people mention many that like the show didn’t like the books.

 

You like both which is great, but what % share is your view? 25% If divided equally between:

 

Liking both.

Liking Book - not liking tv series.

Liking tv series - not liking book.

Not liking either.

 

As I said we shall see next year.

[Ajaxx]

Casting this debate as a book purist vs good tv show discussion is hilariously transparent.

 

Regardless of the books and changes this is an objectively bad show, terrible, no good.

 

It doesn’t hold up at all, it’s an abomination.

[Skipp]

9 minutes ago, Ajaxx said:

Casting this debate as a book purist vs good tv show discussion is hilariously transparent.

 

Regardless of the books and changes this is an objectively bad show, terrible, no good.

 

It doesn’t hold up at all, it’s an abomination.

So very glad you can give us the objective opinion for everyone.

 

You personally find it bad and that is cool.  The show does not do it for you in anyway.

 

I personally enjoyed the show but it has room to improve.

My friends and family also enjoyed the show and none of them have read the books.

 

My sample size is no more or less valid than yours.  Amazon currently seems to be very happy with the show and that could continue or change after season 2.

[Arie]

This is getting into personal attack territory. Let's be civil and not feed the trolls.

[Elendir]

I didn't expect close adaptation of book. It would be ridiculous. But I expected to met old friends and I didn't. There is still time in next seasons, but I have a little reaons to be optimist about it now.

[Kucerakov]

I'm guessing they are pruning negative replies because there is no way readers of this series love the show this much.  Why did they change EVERYTHING?  Absolutely everything is changed.  Meanwhile they try to shoehorn diversity into an already diverse world.  Horrible disappointment.  I wanted a wheel of time show forever and now they did it and UTTERLY ruined it.

[Ajaxx]

17 minutes ago, Arie said:

This is getting into personal attack territory. Let's be civil and not feed the trolls.

How am I trolling? I gave my personal opinion like anyone else?

 

[Kucerakov]

Yeah the thing about them all possibly being the dragon?  Um, as proven with Osan'Gar and Aran'gar, your connection to the one power is a connection to your SOUL.  Your sould can't suddenly decide to be spun out with the ability to touch the other half of the source.  This change, far above any other, ruined it for me.  Because at that point I knew it was going to be just another "Look how all the women rock and men are okay" parade.  It's a corruption of the absolute core of the mythology of the books.  They altered the heart of the story and call it "an adaptation".  No.  An adaptation tells the same story, differently.  This is a completely different story.

[Arie]

14 minutes ago, Ajaxx said:

How am I trolling? I gave my personal opinion like anyone else?

 

It is not my job to explain our Code of Conduct to you. Read it and be civil when communicating with others in the community.

[Arie]

It is also a member's responsibility to read it and be aware of expected behavior. 

 

A simple explanation, if a post contains no content that contributes to the conversation and repeatedly contains the same complaint and content over multiple threads, chances are those posts are trolling.

 

Let's remain on topic. Further arguments over trolling behavior will result in disciplinary action.

 

[Mike Grier]

I know let's do a new adaptation of WoT. And in this new adaptation of TEotW, Rand, instead of being a sheepherder, will be the captain of a starship on a five year mission called the SS Bella, NCC-1701. His crew will follow him on a five year mission to explore the galaxy. They will meet a new member of the Q continuum named Moiraine and her ""warder", Lan. Nynaeve "Bones", the ship's doctor will be quite smitten with him, while she will be strangely ageless.

 

The problem with "re-interpretations" is that you expect some fixed points in the re-interpretations. I expected the Two Rivers folk to be good farming people that you would always root for. I expected the fundamental thesis of how magic works in Randland (Saidin/Saidar/the taint) to have been kept. I did expect the fundamental major points of each of the boys' destinies to be maintained (Rand's three loves, Mat's run-in with the dagger was kind of OK although Moiraine saying that it was bound to him because of an innate darkness was not, Perrin's marriage and killing of his wife would seem to be a huge problem, as was not meeting Elias).

 

The extra diversity (racial) was a wash for me. Whatever. The extra sexual diversity - Aes Sedai are all female for no particular reason evidently, whitecloaks male also for no particular reason evidently, even though the dragon can be male or female, even though only men are tainted?? or something like that? Does that make sense? The WoT was criticized for making the women overpowered from the beginning, which I can see but don't really agree with. If you're on the modernist gender-fluid kind of thinking, where does the male taint fit in any more at all? I feel like the removal of the Saidin/Saidar differentiation was not well thought out. It's a narrative simplification, instead everything is complicated, even if Egwene and Nynaeve couldn't have ever been the dragon.

 

Season 2 will either be a reboot or the final season like what happened with the Sword of Shanarra series ("what? there's a SoS series? Well, kind of. Sort of."). At least with David Lynch's Dune, Baron von Harrkonnen really flew around a lot and Sting was pretty wild on stage and who doesn't actually like Kyle MacLachlan? The casting of Lan and Nynaeve were really good I'd say and they did a good job of showing Rand really looking the odd man out in the village which didn't hit me in the books.

[Ralph]

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

I know let's do a new adaptation of WoT. And in this new adaptation of TEotW, Rand, instead of being a sheepherder, will be the captain of a starship on a five year mission called the SS Bella, NCC-1701. His crew will follow him on a five year mission to explore the galaxy. They will meet a new member of the Q continuum named Moiraine and her ""warder", Lan. Nynaeve "Bones", the ship's doctor will be quite smitten with him, while she will be strangely ageless.

 

The problem with "re-interpretations" is that you expect some fixed points in the re-interpretations. I expected the Two Rivers folk to be good farming people that you would always root for.

They are, except for two that we barely met. And in the books Coplins and Congars are not exactly this. 

 

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

 

I expected the fundamental thesis of how magic works in Randland (Saidin/Saidar/the taint) to have been kept.

It was

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

 

I did expect the fundamental major points of each of the boys' destinies to be maintained (Rand's three loves,

May well be 

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

Mat's run-in with the dagger was kind of OK although Moiraine saying that it was bound to him because of an innate darkness was not, Perrin's marriage and killing of his wife would seem to be a huge problem, as was not meeting Elias).

Not sure why this is a change in the fundamental major points of his destiny, and meeting a guide may yet come. 

 

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

 

The extra diversity (racial) was a wash for me. Whatever. The extra sexual diversity - Aes Sedai are all female for no particular reason evidently, whitecloaks male also for no particular reason evidently, even though the dragon can be male or female, even though only men are tainted?? or something like that? Does that make sense?

Not followed at all sorry. 

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

The WoT was criticized for making the women overpowered from the beginning,w

Was it? 

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

hich I can see but don't really agree with. If you're on the modernist gender-fluid kind of thinking, where does the male taint fit in any more at all?

Good question which the show has not answered or changed

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

 

I feel like the removal of the Saidin/Saidar differentiation was not well thought out.It's a narrative simplification

Exactly. It is not removed, just not explained for narrative simplicitg

6 hours ago, Mike Grier said:

, instead everything is complicated, even if Egwene and Nynaeve couldn't have ever been the dragon.

 

Season 2 will either be a reboot or the final season like what happened with the Sword of Shanarra series ("what? there's a SoS series? Well, kind of. Sort of."). At least with David Lynch's Dune, Baron von Harrkonnen really flew around a lot and Sting was pretty wild on stage and who doesn't actually like Kyle MacLachlan? The casting of Lan and Nynaeve were really good I'd say and they did a good job of showing Rand really looking the odd man out in the village which didn't hit me in the books.

 

[bongmaster]

On 12/13/2021 at 1:29 PM, Spiritweaver1 said:

I am with you.  This is an example of trying to save money by not having to build a road system in the ways.  My grumpy based on this will be nothing compared to my grump if they decide to scrap the green man because the VFX is too expensive.  

The Green man was omitted and The Eye Of The World was nothing as was described in the book; I was not expecting a path to the bowels of hell. Weren't there some colors described in that scene? Moraine holding a knife to Rand's neck and threatening to kill him if he chose the dark side?  Egwene and Nynaeve burning out defending Far Dara?

 

Yeah, the story has totally jumped the track and derailed. Let's hope a new year brings some semblance of reality; I read those bloody books far too many times every time a new one was published. I have an entire shelf of books I want to unload; many of them first edition hardbacks on the first day they went on sale at Borders. It's far easier to carry them around on my Kindles.

[bongmaster]

How did they find Min tending bar at Fal Dara?

Isn't that where we first meet the Amyrlin Seat? Those facts are burnt into my memory hole.

[KingCheops]

I'm enjoying it.  To the point where I'm rereading the series.  I know they changed things a lot but I imagine they'll do some massive streamlining of the story and the changes are for that.