Trailer Drops Tomorrow

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

If you put Twilight/Hunger Games/Harry Potter/Maze Runner Etc. on one end of the spectrum and GOT on the other, WOTTV needs to be closer to GOT. But that doesn’t mean it needs to be GOT or have GOT’s sex and nudity.

 

See, I disagree with that. And I don't think we're talking past each other @Elder haman. Because what I am saying is that if it's more like the Hunger Games and Harry Potter [the last 3, not the first ones] ... Then I think it appeals to a much wider audience and has a better chance at cultural phenomenon success. So I'd be super happy if it was more like the last HP than like GoT. 

 

GoT was vastly popular world-wide. Granted. But, honestly, being a family person myself - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Hopefully WoT isn't like that. 

 

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

What WOTTV does not need is cheese. :49 - :54 of the trailer…. “that is [my] concern, dude.” Looks cheesy. Looks YA. Has nothing to with content and all about the way it looks.

 

I would agree with you that, that 1 part with stopping the arrows did look cheesy. But the rest didnt. Soo hopefully it's mostly amazing. 

 

Honestly, I think Shadow & Bone had mostly good CGI but there were a few parts that were like - wow - that's, that's cheesy. 

 

So again, if we take ... Shadar Logoth. The Trollocs and Fade. The narration...the trailer as a whole... I didn't get the cheesy vibe. Just that one tiny part...

 

And it could be that - because different episodes have different directors - that some episodes are really good and others have some cheesy-ness. So, for example, when asked, BS immediately said that episode 7 (I think it was) was his favorite episode and really good. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Wolfbrother31
Spelling error

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:57 PM, Skipp said:

I feel that the water/paint scene is just Egwene's Wisdom initiation.  I have a feeling they are going to make certain themes more prevalent among the cultures such as the surrendering to the rivers flow and the 7 Ajah colours.

 

No. The Egwene coming up out of the water cut is definitely 

Spoiler

An initiation into the WT

 

Because in the pool - there are the Ajah's 7 colors. 

[johnnysd]

Rafe has said that it will be watchable by teenagers but we also know that there is nudity. One of the recent trends has been to rate individual episodes so some could be TV-14 and some TV-MA. I believe Rafe said at one point that there might be multiple versions of some episodes so it is possible they come out with some extended TV-MA episodes. I don't really care. What I saw feels like WoT and TV-14 is much more lenient than PG-13 so I suspect it will be adult enough. They have changed it now but the first few episodes of GoT were TV-14. 

[Beidomon]

On 9/4/2021 at 3:57 PM, Rose said:

The clip you're concerned about is literally 5 seconds out of a 2-minute trailer. That's 4%. It doesn't really seem fair to extrapolate from that that the entire series is going to be cheesy and childish.

I don’t think I said anything like that…

[Beidomon]

On 9/4/2021 at 4:29 PM, Wolfbrother31 said:

See, I disagree with that. And I don't think we're talking past each other @Elder haman. Because what I am saying is that if it's more like the Hunger Games and Harry Potter [the last 3, not the first ones] ... Then I think it appeals to a much wider audience and has a better chance at cultural phenomenon success. So I'd be super happy if it was more like the last HP than like GoT. 

I loved the Harry Potter Books 1-5 for what they were - great fiction that was accessible for kids but could still be enjoyed by adults. But I don’t think WOT is in any way comparable and I don’t want that for WOTTV. Not to sidetrack the thread, but I thought HP 6 and 7 were a horrifically muddled mess and the movies unfortunately followed suit. I definitely don’t want WOTTV to take after that! ?

 

To me, I think WOT’s core story is so good that Amazon doesn’t need to be overly concerned about the series succeeding if they just stick to the core story. If the only way to make a viable WOTTV is to make it YA - that’s a hard pass for me. (And I’m not saying that’s what it will be.)

[CaddySedai]

To be fair I was like… 11 when I began reading WoT so it appeals to PRE-YA age groups as well ?

 

Heck that was two years before DM even existed. 

 

But I also am somewhat of an outlier. At that point Id also read the Hobbit and LOTR books and the Chronicles of Amber. 

 

I like books. lol. 

[thehumantrashcan]

2 hours ago, Beidomon said:

To me, I think WOT’s core story is so good that Amazon doesn’t need to be overly concerned about the series succeeding if they just stick to the core story. If the only way to make a viable WOTTV is to make it YA - that’s a hard pass for me. (And I’m not saying that’s what it will be.)

I hope that is the case, that they stick to the core story, but it is certainly too early to say if they will or not or that this is turning into a YA story.  I don't think that the trailer shows that it will or not.  I've seen too many trailers that are merely a hype machine and don't show the plot at all so this trailer hasn't worried me at all.  If it hypes up some young adults to want to watch the show and they come for that but stay for the great themes and plot of RJ, awesome!  If the story is turned into a YA story...I don't know.  I fell in love with this story when I was a teenager and YA so deep down inside, I've always seen WoT as a very well written YA series that didn't follow the normal tropes of YA but wrote a relatable, enjoyable story.  (Don't stone me because I referred to WoT as YA)

 

In regards to some of my initial worries about added and missing things in the trailer...
If LotR is any example, removing story lines like Tom Bombadil and the roll of the Innkeeper at Bree, or adding/changing plots like that Moria was supposed to be full of dwarves and thriving while in the books it was clear well before their arrival that if dwarves went there they never came back, the plot and theme didn't change.  Those changes made sense, the innkeeper and Tom didn't add that much to the story.  The backstory the books provide about Moria took up a lot of time and condensing the potential for disaster in Moria to a few sentences between Aragorn and Gandalf while in the pass and Gimli talking about how they will be welcomed with feasting worked even if it changed the story and world setting. 

 

In light of the trailer I haven't seen anything that changes the plot heavily.  If we have a Wisdom initiation added that might include some of the overarching themes described throughout the books about embracing Saidar and the importance of the 7 colors, fine.  That should save time, help the viewer to be shown setting and backstory rather than be told through exposition and provide us with setting information that would be told in the book from the character's internal thoughts.  Also, Jordan used to repeat how to embrace Saidar over and over along with many other bits to keep the themes and what characters were experiencing and thinking and how the world works fresh in our minds.  If the makers of the TV show decide to incorporate the themes into cultures and take new subplots like what we may have seen in the trailer to save us from exposition, I am all for it.  I imagine that's why expanding Logain and his capture as well as bits from New Spring seem to be mixed into this first season.

 

So far all I'm still hesitant about is why I didn't get to see Thom or Padan Fain (maybe Loial?) and that the prudishness that the main characters had coming out of the Two Rivers, seems to be gone, thus removing some great comedy with the EF5 clashing or being greatly embarrassed with other more open cultures.

[Guire]

Having watched the trailer way too many times now,  I am starting to think this is a bit of a bait and switch.  We get to see EF boys enough to see their arcs through first few books remains intact. I think Moraine is going to have more POV and story presence to show us what is happening without giant exposition dumps.  So instead of seeing world through Rand's eyes, we will see Rand's growth and decline through Moraine's POV.  In reality Moraine, Egwene, and Rand are most important characters with lots of others needing to be there to support these three.  So I think story won't change just a bit of viewpoint.

[Daenelia]

It took me by surprise ?

So I liked what I saw. It looked familiar in a good way, but with the feeling I will still be surprised. What surprised me, pleasantly, was a lot of focus on ... everyone. I did not get the feeling it would be focusing on one character, so if it turns out to be an ensemble cast show I will be so happy.

 

Then I asked my guy what he thought of it. He never finished reading The Eye of the World, and is definitely less enthousiastic. But he will watch it because I will watch it. He said it looked good. But there was too much happening, too quickly, to get a sense of what the story will be about. That won't matter. There will be new fans coming in. And frankly, that is what I am most excited about.

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Daenelia said:

But there was too much happening, too quickly, to get a sense of what the story will be about.

yeah, if I had not been already a wot fan, the trailer would not have hooked me for exactly that reason; scenes change too fast to actually be able to make out anything. Like, the first time I watched the trailer, I was all like "wuh? what's happening there? what was that thing in the last scene?"

 

Had to watch it slowly, stopping at each scene, to figure out what was going on.

[Elder_Haman]

29 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

yeah, if I had not been already a wot fan, the trailer would not have hooked me for exactly that reason;

 

I don't think hooking people was the goal. The goal was to make people say, "wow, that looks like it could be cool. I might watch that." From that perspective, it was  a home run.

 

It's the next trailer that's going to be designed to "hook" you. To turn you from "I might watch that" to "I will watch that."

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

I don't think hooking people was the goal. The goal was to make people say, "wow, that looks like it could be cool. I might watch that." From that perspective, it was  a home run.

 

It's the next trailer that's going to be designed to "hook" you. To turn you from "I might watch that" to "I will watch that."

Alright, so when is the next trailer coming...?

 

Not that it really matters, I will be watching regardless.

Edited September 8, 2021 by DojoToad

[Elder_Haman]

18 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Alright, so when is the next trailer coming...?

My best guess would be the week of October 3. Prime's coverage of Thursday Night Football starts that week. It's close to the 30-day pre-release mark. So that week would seem to check quite a few boxes.

[Taishar Hawaii]

I believe it’s safe to say that if you post here, you’re in for at least the premier episode. My gut reaction to first viewing the trailer was apprehension on hitting play, then a warm, fuzzy, teary-eyed feeling of ‘finally’. 
 

There’s been a lot said of the casting of Rosamund Pike as Moiraine, good and bad. IMO, despite her height, she really sold the trailer for me. Her presence and voice-over (not to mention that battle scene with Lan) eased a lot of anxiety for me. Moiraine is such a complex character and seems to be in good hands. 
 

I am concerned about the ‘ageing up’ of the EF5 simply because of the youthful naïveté they entered the world with and the growing up we shared with them throughout the series. I hope that is not lost in the show. 
 

Overall the trailer has made me hopeful, and that can be good or bad. A lot of the cosmetic changes don’t bother me and the casting is what it is. Can they bring the characters we love to life? That is yet to be seen. 
 

A lot of people will naturally compare this to GoT. As a fan of the books and S1-7 of the show, the changes to the show from the books was many and varied. And the show was still a worldwide success. So, here’s hoping. . .

[DojoToad]

55 minutes ago, Taishar Hawaii said:

I am concerned about the ‘ageing up’ of the EF5 simply because of the youthful naïveté they entered the world with and the growing up we shared with them throughout the series. I hope that is not lost in the show. 

My first thought was that we're losing a major chance at character development with the aging up.  But I've known a lot of 18-20 year olds (myself included) that thought they had it all figured out before real life smacked them in the face.  So it might be okay.

 

Plus as mentioned earlier, Egwene and Rand's very adult relationship makes the cost much higher later on when they realize it is not meant to be.  So we may or may not lose some growing up moments (to be determined), but we definitely gain significant emotional impact between Eg and Rand.

[Daenelia]

I will be feeding the next trailers to my guy and get a sense of how a non-fan will react. He's been more into GoT/ASOIF, and as mentioned he could not get through TEOTW. But! I got him hooked on Blake's 7, which is an ancient SF series from the late 70's/early 80's. So it has not been unprecedented that he will like something unusual for him.

 

As long as the story holds up. I actually think that the series might stand a better chance of presenting the story in a very coherent way. TV is a different medium, and it will undoubtedly have to tell the story differently.

[Taishar Hawaii]

32 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

My first thought was that we're losing a major chance at character development with the aging up.  But I've known a lot of 18-20 year olds (myself included) that thought they had it all figured out before real life smacked them in the face.  So it might be okay.

 

Plus as mentioned earlier, Egwene and Rand's very adult relationship makes the cost much higher later on when they realize it is not meant to be.  So we may or may not lose some growing up moments (to be determined), but we definitely gain significant emotional impact between Eg and Rand.

A great point. The growth of their relationship from youthful infatuation to a more worldly view is an important character arc for both.

[CaddySedai]

True. On the flip side by refocusing the narrative you can get away with reducing some of the naïveté by stating its another POV of the characters you know. 

 

Again a change like that I plan to chalk up to this being a Portal Stone World and their Rand might be a little less helpless on day 1

[Agitel]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

My first thought was that we're losing a major chance at character development with the aging up.  But I've known a lot of 18-20 year olds (myself included) that thought they had it all figured out before real life smacked them in the face.  So it might be okay.

 

Plus as mentioned earlier, Egwene and Rand's very adult relationship makes the cost much higher later on when they realize it is not meant to be.  So we may or may not lose some growing up moments (to be determined), but we definitely gain significant emotional impact between Eg and Rand.

 

When people say the characters are "aged up," what do they mean. Book Rand/Mat/Perrin are just about 19 years old. Egwene 17.

 

So if the characters are aged up for the show, I'd expect all the show versions to be at least in their early 20s. They can still be naive, though.

 

Edit: I had originally rounded the ages up.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Agitel

[king of nowhere]

they will be naive if they grew up in their isolated village without contact with the outside, never having traveled farther than half a day's walk.

they are going to be naive and ignorant about the world at large, whether they're 18 or 81

[mogi68]

26 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

they will be naive if they grew up in their isolated village without contact with the outside, never having traveled farther than half a day's walk.

they are going to be naive and ignorant about the world at large, whether they're 18 or 81

 

Half a day's walk?

 

Bro...they've been as far as the sand hills and the foot of the Mountains of Mist. Have some respect

[Beidomon]

3 hours ago, Taishar Hawaii said:

A lot of people will naturally compare this to GoT. As a fan of the books and S1-7 of the show, the changes to the show from the books was many and varied. And the show was still a worldwide success. So, here’s hoping. . .

I consider GOT to be the gold standard for fantasy adaptations - at least until they ran out of story to adapt. The vast majority of changes, mostly in the form of cuts and character consolidations, were for the better. The point is that the showrunners stayed really true to the story for as long as they could.

 

I am expecting the same for WOTTV. There was plenty of bloat in the books that I’d love to cut. But stick to the dang story and I’ll be happy. If the show diverts its focus from the Dragon Reborn, except as an early misdirection, then it is straying from the story.

 

Everybody remembers Dark Tower. Don’t go Dark Tower.

[johnnysd]

11 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I consider GOT to be the gold standard for fantasy adaptations - at least until they ran out of story to adapt. The vast majority of changes, mostly in the form of cuts and character consolidations, were for the better. The point is that the showrunners stayed really true to the story for as long as they could.

 

I am expecting the same for WOTTV. There was plenty of bloat in the books that I’d love to cut. But stick to the dang story and I’ll be happy. If the show diverts its focus from the Dragon Reborn, except as an early misdirection, then it is straying from the story.

 

Everybody remembers Dark Tower. Don’t go Dark Tower.

 

There is literally nothing to suggest it diverts from the main story. 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

6 hours ago, Taishar Hawaii said:

I am concerned about the ‘ageing up’ of the EF5 simply because of the youthful naïveté they entered the world with and the growing up we shared with them throughout the series. I hope that is not lost in the show. 

 

You know ... I started reading the series as a 6th grader, so maybe my perspective is skewed ... but I would counter some of the above arguments with this quote that I find spot on. 

 

The characters start out. Naive. Innocent. Backwoods. Young adults. 

The story is NOT grotesque. Gory. Super sexual [at least not at the beginning]. 

 

WoT is FAR closer to LoTR and the last HP (which I wouldn't describe as YA but as ... the actual gold-standard of fantasy). 

 

I mean, when I think of YA, I think Shannara, Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent, Shadow and Bone, ect...

 

When I think of LoTR, I think... Changed the world for the fantasy genre. Would recommend to anyone ... 10 to 90 ... And would honestly believe they'd like it. 

 

When I think of GoT, I think... Popular show. Captured the spirit of the first books. Leaned into the darkness, sex, and gore that is the books. Wouldnt recommend it to people. And honestly believe it'll be mostly forgotten in a generation. 

 

I reeallly do NOT want WoT to be YA as I think of YA. And don't believe it will be. Rafe, himself, in his best Twitter exchange has said - WoT is not YA. 

 

I reeallly DO want WoT to be like LoTR. A cultural phenomenon I could recommend to anyone. 

 

I'd be ok with WoT being like GoT in the sense that GoT leaned into the books strength and captured it's spirit -- until it didn't -- which happened when the actors got power and couldn't be killed off or told to do grotesque stuff of the books, which also coincided with not having source material. 

 

But back to the trailer. 

 

I think that the Egwene scene coming out of the water is an initiation to the Tower. Which if that happens in this season - they're either covering a lot or changing things a lot. 

 

I do not think that's an Aiel in a cage. Matt sees him. And I think it's in Shadar Logoth. 

 

I think people are going to be most displeased with the channeling and the stuff we won't see in the show this season because they decided it was too expensive: like Caemlyn and the Andoran nobility, color shifting warder cloaks, the Green Man, ect...

 

I think, from what I saw, people are going to most pleased by the Shadowspawn and the antogonists. The Trollocs, Fades, and Logain  look sooo good. I think Fain is going to be done super well. Shadar Logoth looked creepy and awesome. And I can't wait - probably won't be much this season - but when we get Forsaken. They can be improved. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[CaddySedai]

3 hours ago, mogi68 said:

 

Half a day's walk?

 

Bro...they've been as far as the sand hills and the foot of the Mountains of Mist. Have some respect

 

As funny as the comment as a whole is, its the “Bro…” that killed me because I pictures that being an IC comment. lol. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by CaddySedai