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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Beidomon

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  1. My very favorite stuff in the series isn’t really character driven. Instead, it is the brief glimpses into the Age of Legends, and revolving nature of the battle between the Dragon and the Dark One. So my two favorite chapters are The Dedicated from TSR (hands down the best book) and What Might Be from TGH. Although I’m really not sure how the TV series will adapt those - if they aren’t cut entirely. I also agree that Dumai’s Wells will be epic if the series survives that long (sorry to be Debbie Downer but I don’t think it will).
  2. It annoys me that the showrunners seem to be going out of their way to be #Woke. That bodes poorly for the series. They didn’t do it in GOT and I don’t know why they feel the need to do it here. These casting choices look more like WOT meets MTV. I don’t really care if Perrin is black, btw. He has an honest, vulnerable face that fits the character. But Egwene and Nynaeve in particular look far too exotic. It’s ridiculous. They really are going to screw this all up, aren’t they? Not that it should matter - we’ll always have the books - except that I was hoping a TV series would improve on some of the many shortcomings of the books. Well be lucky to get a second season at this rate.
  3. I don’t care about Moraine’s height. That sort of stuff is probably getting a little too granular. I’m pleased they landed such a big time actress for a different reason: I read a (hopefully) very stupid article in something like Vogue which seemed to indicate that the series would center on Moraine. But Pike’s casting indicates that Moraine will exit fairly early, like in the books, for the simple reason that Amazon probably can’t afford to keep her heavily involved. Similar to Sean Bean’s casting in GOT.
  4. Right, I've read that, but I really don't see what narrative purpose it serves to sprinkle the prologue in at a later point. I think it would be a big mistake not to use the prologue as RJ did - a kickass opportunity to show the audience what this story is all about. The Dragon, Ishamael, the tainting and associated madness of Saidin, the Breaking, the turning of ages... the Prologue perfectly introduces all of this. It's a no-brainer to use the Prologue as a cold open for the show.
  5. I agree that the last three books were action packed, but a lot of it kind of read like fan fiction (no offense to BS, who did a remarkable job) and didn't seem terribly necessary. For example all the Perrin/Slayer stuff. I think the series would have far, far stronger (not the least of which because it would been finished by RJ himself!!) if he moved more quickly from Dumai's Wells toward The Last Battle. This is an area where I think the TV series can improve. Let's be honest, if you only had 7-8 seasons to tell this story (and that's probably the max, right?) - where would you want to spend the time? I think it is virtually indisputable that books 1-6 are far stronger than books 7-14 and deserve more than 50% of the screen time.
  6. The Last Jedi is an apt analogy for what we want to avoid. Half the movie felt more like a feminist screed than a Star Wars movie. There are plenty of strong female characters in WOT if you just focus on the story. But it's also not terribly concerning that a major actress has been cast as Moraine. Moraine is a very important character in the first few books. If anything, Pike's casting indicates that she'll be largely out of the picture after the first couple of seasons, just like the books, similar to Sean Bean's casting in GOT.
  7. A lot of what I’m reading from Rafe sounds pretty encouraging, but then there’s this: his favorite character is... Egwene? Crap. Well let’s keep our fingers crossed. As I read back through this loooong thread, a couple of things surprised me. I expected most of the fans to want a more faithful 1:1 book:season adaptation - which is nuts, but actually a lot of people go the total opposite route of seriously suggesting Books 1 and 2 and even 3 ought to be packed into one season, which is equally nuts. Heres the deal: Books 1-6 had a few soft spots, but overall were a masterpiece. Those books need 4 seasons. 1 for EOTW, 1 for TGH and TDR (believe it or not, about half of TDR can be cut and a season starting with the hunt and ending with Rand drawing the sword would be be great), 1 season for TSR (single best book of the series, hands down), and 1 season for FOH and LOC. After that, would finish off the rest of the series with maybe 2-3 more seasons. Another thing that shocked me were the suggestions that Season 1 ought to skip the prologue. Are you nuts?!?! Hey, I know that Red Eagle.... thing.... left a bad taste in people’s mouths, but the prologue sets the tone for the entire series! It’s amazing. If Rafe does one thing right, it is to start the show with the prologue as a cold open, and then have the formation of Dragonmount merge into the title sequence. Finally, my man Billy Zane at least needs a bit part. Make this happen, Rafe!!
  8. Some of what I’m hearing is good news. The showrunners def need to take a page from GOT and make the characters less one-dimensional. One of the biggest failings of WOT. We need to see more of the Forsaken and actually develop those characters! That’s worth cutting about 100 dumb Aes Sedai. Also would like to kill off some big characters earlier, and perhaps chop down that rather silly Rand-Min-Elayne-Avi thing. I really don’t care if they change a few ethnicities or even sexualities of the characters. My bigger concern is the *feminism* bit. WOT has plenty of strong female characters, but the SuperGirls get more than a little annoying at times. Not to mention the interminable Aes Sedai nonsense that made Books 7-10 such a horrible slog. I am VERY worried this series is going to play up Moraine and the SuperGirls and downplay Rand. Rand is THE CENTRAL CHARACTER!!!! If they stray too far into the woke weeds, that’s going to ruin it for me.
  9. One of the most enjoyable aspects of GOT is how deep, multifaceted, and believable the characters are. The "good guys" aren't pure good, and many of the "bad guys" aren't pure evil. You can sometimes sympathize with the baddies and sometimes be taken aback by your heros. That's probably the biggest reason why GOT thrives as a TV show, and it is something that WOT is probably going to have to adjust to succeed. GOT is definitely gritty - especially HBO's rendition - and I think some of it is over the top. Especially the epidemic of kid-killing. But WOT world sometimes feels awfully sterile of day-to-day violence and mysogeny for a fantasy with so many nods to medieval history. Serious question from someone not well versed in all things fantasy: can anyone name a fantasy tv or movie series based largely on magic that wasn't extremely cheesy? I really can't think of one. Harry Potter did fine with the wands, but those were kid movies. LOTR has magic, but primarily wielded by just one character. Star Wars has "the force" but it's mostly light saber duals and throwing heavy objects.
  10. Ah the inevitable "Us versus GOT" discussion. They're both great series. But I don't think it can seriously be denied that GOT is superior in a number of ways. For one, the characters are much more complex. Lots of gray. WOT characters are generally very flat and either "good" or "evil." The world and backstory GRRM is more intricate, especially the religions and houses. Those things are almost nonexistent in WOT. The fleeting references to the AOL - primarily through the forsaken POVs which are far too few - are interesting but just not enough. The women characters - Dany aside - are much better in GOT. WOT's women are often insufferable. WOT also has advantages. The very premise of the series - reincarnation in an ongoing battle of good versus evil - is more interesting. So is the magic - and the system of Saidar/Saidin and the taint and madness and breaking and hunting down of the make channelers. This is where WOT really shines. But just because GOT has been a smashing success on TV, I don't think we can assume that WOT would translate nearly as well. I am chiefly concerned that a series that relies so heavily on magic will look cheesy as hell on screen.
  11. I think a lot of people are underestimating the amount of streamlining that the camera and a set of actors can do vs a book. For example let's just take EoTW: Ep1 - Prologue through saddling up to leave Winespring Inn. Ep2 - The ride out of Emond's Field - Leaving Baerlon Ep3 - Baerlon - escaping from Shadar Logoth Ep4 - Rands/Mat/Thom to fleeing the fade at WB. Ep5 - Perrin / Egwene to being captured by the WC + Nyn/Lan/Moiraine preparing to rescue Ep6 - Rescue of Perrin/Egwene + Rand/Mat to Caemlyn Ep7 - Time at Caemlyn to leaving via the ways Ep8 - Ways + Fal Dara Ep9 - Blight + EoTW Ep10 - Aftermath + Amyrlyn arriving. Season 2 I would do Walking Dead style with two 8 episode arcs covering TGH and TDR. Really don't need to start omitting/trimming characters until TSR when the plot really begins to branch. +1 to both of these posts. EOTW through beginning of TGH is a perfect Season 1. And Seawolf's suggestions are examples of areas that I would view as improvements. Especially giving the Forsaken a bit more screen time and menace. I agree that hopefully none of the main characters from EOTW will be cut - the characters to be cut will be the swaths of Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, Aiel, Wilders, etc. (and associated insignificant storylines) from the latter books.
  12. Agree with this completely. Cutting down the story is only the first challenge. Depicting the channeling in a live action show is going to require some interesting devices. But I just want this be GOT great and not campy.
  13. The folks who are clammoring for a faithful adaptation of Books 7-11 are the ones who don't seem to want this tv series to become a reality, because that is NEVER going to happen. I absolutely want this TV series - and I think it likely would be much further along in development, if not already airing, if the series had been kept more concise.
  14. Absolutely. Two Rivers, flight therefrom, Shadar Logoth, Caemlyn, the Ways, the Blight, Shienar. Loads of character development. You take that through the beginning of TGH and you've got a great Season 1.
  15. You're not taking into account that a great deal of additional dialogue and creative storytelling will need to be *added* to replace the internal thoughts of characters. Any way you slice it, there's is way way way too much story here for a tv series of 6 or 7 seasons. It's not even debatable.
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