Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Magmaros]

I will say I do like what we found out about Gaidal and Brigitte, it was nice to know that she's getting reborn, and they pretty much point out that Olver is Gaidal

[Elan Tedronai]

is this guy handicapped or something??

not really. i think he has a serious psychological problem with egwene and the aes sedai in general. I mean egwene is dead finished and fought to the end. When someone begrudges even that then you know it's more than just plin hatred. It's obsession.

 

I think one forummer said it best. It's like fain let loose on certain sections of the fans

[Guest Stevehorr]

I liked the book, but Rand heading out without letting Tam know he was still alive seemed massively out of character to me.

[NARISMA]

So mhch for Jordan's consistent refusal to admit Olver is Gaidal.

[Elan Tedronai]

So mhch for Jordan's consistent refusal to admit Olver is Gaidal.

i actually found team jordan's assertion of major deaths in amol quite funny.

 

 

I mean they killed off alot of secondary characters but that's it.

 

Rand alive

Mat alive

Perrin alive

Nynaeve alive

elayne/min/aviendha alive

 

 

Egwene is the only major casualty in the entire book. And yet alot of people were comparng this book to one of GRRM's books. Not even close

[littleleicesterfox]

I finished the book about 12 hours and I can't pick it back up just yet as it has left me a little emotionally battered.

 

I've seen quite a few things saying 'well this SHOULD have happened and didn't' and I agree it would have been good to see things like a Siuan/Moiraine reunion but i think part of the point was that it was a chaotic huge battle and sometimes things that should happen just don't.

 

I think that one of things that should, in a way, have happened was that Rand came to save the Black Tower.  But he couldn't. And so it's only thanks to Logain's willpower and Androl being weak in Saidin that the thing was saved at all.  I think a lot of people, me I know for sure, have been waiting for a very long time time to see in particular how Logain's prophecy plays out and I thought it was interesting that, even at the close of the series, we were only just beginning to see the first glimmers of that and it is one of the many 'life will go on' pointers. 

 

I was very happy to seee Lan walk out the other side.

 

One thing that puzzled me greatly was why Rand chose to use Moiraine as the third member of the circle since her strength was so diminished, but I guess that's down to a question of trust between the people involved rather than the strength in the One Power at the end of it all.

 

I saw a question of whether any of the forsaken walked out the other side? Didn't UglyGraendal survive as Aviendha's Mind Slave?

 

I had a LOT of goosebumps moments; the page where Rand say Bashere and Deira, Hurin and Karldin die was somewhat traumatic. Egwene.  Woah, that scene was well-written and, although I have 20/20 hindsight for the foreshadowing, I had absolutely no idea she was going to die.  I thought she was going to live through and be part of rebuilding the White Tower but I suppose Egwene always gave everything she had, every little bit and so there was little chance she was not going to do something amazing while epitomzing the 'Servant of All' and sacrificing everything for the rest of the world.

 

Bela and Olver. Birgitte. Faile, Periin and Mat's awesomness. Oh gawd still so much amazing stuff my brain is kind of going into overload again!

 

I still can't quite recall what happened to some people in the end which is why I need a re-read? Gaul? I don't know, as far as I'm aware he's still in TAR.  I will work it out when I can pick it up agan.  The whole series is demanding a re-read for look for the 13x13 upgrades in retrospect, I suspect there's quite a few hanging around from about FoH onwards.

 

The philosophy lesson between Rand and Shai'tan reminded me of Good Omens and the free-will and world created in an image discussed there. 

 

Also, thank you Team Jordan.  It took until the last third of the last book to let us know that Randland is actually called 'the Mainlands' by the people in the book.  Really, that was so hard to tell us? :o :)

 

[dreadlord]

On Egwene.... I'm somewhat ambivalent about her death.  I'm not going to call her a mary-sue but she always seemed a bit... contrived to me.  Maybe, it is because I was never really statisfied with the resolution of what Halima was doing to her to the degree that it cast a pall over everything she did thereafter in my mind.  And, with all the emphasis on compulsion throughout the book, feeling even less resolution.

 

Some examples/reasons...

 

- The buildup to the meeting at the Fields... Was part of what Halima was doing planting seeds of compulsion to politically screw things up with Rand in the same way that the Great Captains were screwing up the battles.

- During the avenging anger of the amrlyin scenes she thinks of herself as the 'steward of this land' or somesuch which felt a little ontologically wrong to me given the 'Dragon is one with the land' thing.

- Others have pointed out various bits of plot causality and foreshadowing but these didn't really resonate with me.

 

Admittedly, I'm not really a fan of the Egwene character, so you can take this with a grain of salt.

[Hopefire]

Gaul makes it out. Pages 881-882. He spends the Last Battle watching Rand's back in TAR.

[littleleicesterfox]

Ah thank you I was concerned that I wouldn't know until I'd gone through it again :)

[Viperswhip]

Well, I just finished. All in one go, so my fingers are a little twitchy now. Did I like it? Yes, there were parts I really liked. I guess we can all be happy that Lanfear didn't turn back to the light, did anyone? Not that I can recall. Where did that speculation come from?

 

Nynaeve has healed, by the end, one person with compulsion, in TGS. That's not super satisfactory, I wanted her to get to show off some more of her elite skills. I am really glad Lan lived. Was the Chekov's Gun the call back to Lan in New Spring? You don't stop fighting until you are dead? That's two better swordsmen he has beaten in his time. I didn't catch anything else, but I am not that observant.

 

The buildup to the Fields was super duper overdone. Given that the armies all dispersed after the fact, that's a meeting that could have taken place anywhere.

 

I guess compulsion was the best way to give Mat command that didn't seem too contrived.

 

Berelaine didn't seem to mind that Galad was a bit mangled, so that's probably more character than most expected of her. Too bad Tam thinks his son is dead and that Galad will never know him. Hopefully the Whitecloaks are full on finished now.

 

I wish we got to see more of an outcome of the Hawking - Tuon discussion, nothing seems to have been affected by it. I mean, his saying that his irrational hatred of Aes Sedai was due to the Ishy's interference would be yet another blow to their twisted and stupid beliefs. It was pretty funny how Min basically became the Empire's #3 behind only Tuon and Mat in basically a couple of chapters lol She was not made a member of the Low Blood, she was promoted to full Blood status for whatever that's worth, given that she was already supreme holy Lady.

 

A lot of the deaths felt...a little underwhelming. The ending was also a little abrupt. I really want to know how things turn out for the Aeil, I am guessing it's all different because they were brought into the Dragon's Peace and retained a purpose? It was kind of a super quick, almost off hand resolution given the large amount of foreboding Avi's vision brought the table.

 

Cads becoming Amyrlin? What are they trying to do, have 4 Amyrlins in 10 years or so? Lol, she pretty much constantly states that she is close to death. And, if they hated Siuan, wait till they get a load of Cads. What's with Teslyn saying she didn't like the Tower she went back to? She would have preferred it under Elaida or something? Maybe she is just dissatisfied with being Aes Sedai altogether, in the same way Nynaeve is.

 

Mogy should have died, all she has to do is find a darkfriend amongst the Seanchan, shouldn't be hard, to release her and wheee, a new bore. Maybe not though, seems like she'd had enough of that life.

 

Rand not killing the DO...mmmm, his reasoning seems weak, just because the DO taunted him about a world the Dragon made didn't mean Rand actually had to do it that way.

 

So, we are presuming he ended up in Moridin's body right? Why can't he channel? He better stick with Min then because Avi and Elayne are going to way outlive him. The whole Alivia thing was way, way, way overblown. Is this just a factor of too many plates in the air, we have to get rid of some in a concise manner?

 

I would like to have had some explicit healing of Avi by someone like Nynaeve or something, here legs were too nice to be mangled.

 

Not all the evil channelers were dealt with. What happens to the 13x13s if the DO is effectively gone?

 

So, too many questions left at the end for me, but then, no series of any medium, ever answers them all.

 

Questioning the Way of the Leaf did not go far enough. Ila deserved a Trolloc spear through the head as far as I can tell. Not willing to pick up a spear to save the World? Blow me, die, die, die. She actually considered those fighting to be misguided.

 

It's nice to know that Moiraine will get a chance to travel the world in a more relaxed fashion now. Sure, she has been everywhere but it was on a mission, not a vacation. You definitely see things differently and Thom can give her the wonder certain things deserve.

 

Why is Birgitte being reborn now? What do we think a super hero will be needed to deal with in the near future? My only gripe left is the Seanchan.

 

Why do people think Olver is Gaidal? He does not seem like Gaidal, way to pleasant of a demeanor.

 

Well, I will do a slower reread over the coming weeks and jump right into the all the arguments that will never be resolved unless BS starts talking out of his ass.

[NitroS]

I loved the whole demandred and shara reveal, i just wish it was more the seanchan vs them. Also i went back over the 2 big demandred threads and terez is there shutting down everyone that says anything but it being roedran. i like how brandon executed roedran at fom. Elayne in those scenes was funny too. "come in try the soup" during the arguments.

 

Also i like how past meetings of people got brought up, for example elmindreda, mat with his dagger and others from TGH etc. I dont think RJ would have used those like a fan such as brandon did. cadsuane amyrlin demandred circle of 72 with saangreal. If you read his pov in wh then the ones in amol it is obvious it is written by different people.

 

Things i didnt like, no answers too all of verins letters? Moridins terangeal and angreal he collected for millenia for nothing? Demandred not being able to see rand Cadsuane not being very important nothing about her paralysis net, moirane and nyneave doing virtually nothing. Wasnt nyneave suppose to get rid of her jewellery?.

[littleleicesterfox]

On Egwene.... I'm somewhat ambivalent about her death.  I'm not going to call her a mary-sue but she always seemed a bit... contrived to me.  Maybe, it is because I was never really statisfied with the resolution of what Halima was doing to her to the degree that it cast a pall over everything she did thereafter in my mind.  And, with all the emphasis on compulsion throughout the book, feeling even less resolution.

 

Some examples/reasons...

 

- The buildup to the meeting at the Fields... Was part of what Halima was doing planting seeds of compulsion to politically screw things up with Rand in the same way that the Great Captains were screwing up the battles.

- During the avenging anger of the amrlyin scenes she thinks of herself as the 'steward of this land' or somesuch which felt a little ontologically wrong to me given the 'Dragon is one with the land' thing.

- Others have pointed out various bits of plot causality and foreshadowing but these didn't really resonate with me.

 

Admittedly, I'm not really a fan of the Egwene character, so you can take this with a grain of salt.

 

 Regarding the Steward of the Land/the king being of the land, this is a fairly familiar motif in celtic/brethonic mythology, the most familiar example of which being the story of the Fisher King.   The King IS the land but the role that Egwene is filling is the Champion of the land, the defender which is filled by Peredur in the Fisher King and the motif also occurs repeatedly during the Arthurian legends which is, as I am sure you are aware, a huge influence on the Wheel of Time.

 

I have also had a think about the Nakomi/Verin/Hero of the Horn thing. Our most familiar reference for how heroes are spun out is Birgitte's stories and she said that when she and Gaidal met they often did not recognise each other at first.  It seems improbable to me that the whole saga occuring here is not going to attract at least one or two of the heroes being spun out and so it seems possible to me that Verin was a hero that had been spun out in one of her lives and when she died she reverted to the 'default' TAR form of Nakomi.  Not all the heroes have to wearing shining armour and prancing on horseback and I think that reading through Wheel of Time reinforces the thinking that there's more than one kind of hero :)

[ADarke]

Were there any previous references to Demandred's sa'angreal, Sakernen?

[Temujim]

Wondering if Rand should have gone to Shara.  Was Demandred a False Wyld?  Demandred does say at one point: I am true and he is false.

 

I thought the Dragon Peace was a little silly in concept and implementation.  Tuon sort of nailed it - just a piece of paper.  Sooner or later it will break down - maybe because of the Seachan, maybe because of all the unclaimed territory that will eventually be settled again (Caralain, etc).  Doesn't cover the Seachan mainland, Shara, or Isle of Madmen.  Can't remember if the Sea Folk are in there.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Were there any previous references to Demandred's sa'angreal, Sakernen?

 

Yes, Lanfear mentions that there are 2 sa'angreal (for males) that are stronger than Callandor in tSR or FoH. 

 

Apart from that, no. 

 

On the topic, since I feel compelled to speak for my alter-ego here on DM

 

My verdict on Demandred: His actions and planning were good. 

 

The on-screen stuff was no so good. 

 

We should have gotten more of Demandred throughout the series. The snippets we get are not enough, but they hint at a potentially awesome plotline. 

 

He manages to win over the Sharans to the Shadow (turning a few that will resist, any leader will have enemies). He falls in love with a woman and they genuinely care for each other, he really thinks he is doing the right thing by trying to remake the pattern to shelter the Sharan's. He is kind to an old man - for whatever reasons. Shara changes him. However, he can't let go of his hatred of Lews Therin, an enmity of over 400 years. He wishes that he could be released, and live without the hatred, but he is in far too deep. 

 

That would have been one hell of a good story, I would read a spin-off series about The Adventures of Bao the Wyld. 

 

 

It could have been one of the best arc's in the entire series. Instead, we get 3 sword fights pretty much the same as each other, a huge sa'angreal and circle of destruction and him seeming like a babbling idiot. His ravings sound entirely stupid if not for the small snippet we get from his PoV. He knows he is irrational, he wants it to END, so he pushes for Lews Therin. He thinks he knows what Rand will do because of his memories of Lews Therin, but in actual fact, the new Rand has changed. 

 

Why on earth it focused on duels of all things - 3 of them no less, is beyond me. Yeah, it was good that a bad guy did some damage, got rid of an annoying child in Gawyn - who basically got Egwene killed by his actions, and his command of the war (his overall command - from Caemlyn to the four battlefronts to FoM) got a lot of characters killed as a result, but for myself, I was far more interested in his interactions with Shara, and how he wasn't just a typical villain. Those fights, the ravings and the sa'angreal made it seem so, but the story behind becoming the Wyld and winning over Shara shows that there was more going on than just an evil lunatic. Of course, he was still bad, no doubt about it. His hatred got the better of him - but I liked that there was more to it than that. He wanted a chance to be free of his hatred, a new chance at living. 

 

Perhaps killing a load of people with a kickass sa'angreal and a few hundred Ayyad is nice enough, but I would have liked to explore how Shara changed him, how he became the Wyld and his struggle with his hatred and wanting to be rid of the shadow of Lews Therin so he could live in peace (although, as I said, he couldn't do it, I'm not saying he was redeemed, he COULD have been, but ultimately failed)

 

Basically, I believe that Brandon did a poor job at writing Demandred. It feels like he thought everyone expected him to be super-awesome and gave him super-super power. Of course, The sa'angreal etc... could have been planned by RJ, and I believe RJ made a mistake by keeping Demandred off-screen until the final book so I am not planting the blame on Sanderson entirely, but the duels and his random destruction/shouting took up most of his plot - where I believe it should have been more focused on Demandred emotions and more of his interaction with Shara. Blood and ashes, he spends all the time convincing an almost unknown nation to willingly fight for the Shadow and all we get is him shouting and blowing things up?

 

Edit: re: False Wlyd. No he wasn't. I suspect the prophecies were largely twisted. The Wyld is the "Dragonslayer", he isn't the Dragon Reborn. He is the man who will stop the Dragon from Breaking the World again. The Saviour of the world from the Breaking.

 

I suppose it could have been Rand, since he did do those things, you could technically say that he was the Dragonslayer, since he put right Lews Therin's mistakes, cleared his name etc... But I think that going to Shara would have been pointless for Rand. I don't think that they would have taken the Dragon Reborn when their prophecies said the Wyld would be the Dragonslayer - even if it was true, nobody would be able to predict the Dragon Reborn turning Dragonslayer. 

 

So, either it was a prophecy made up totally - which I doubt, the Sharan's truly believed it, it wouldn't be something anyone could just walk in and say "hey, here's a new prophecy, follow me." It would likely have to have some actual truth to it. So the second option is that it was Rand, and he was the Dragonslayer, but the phrasing etc.. meant Demandred could easily take that position. Third, it could have been based on Dreaming and other less certain prophetic devices. Where Demandred really was the man in their prophecies, but the prophecies were only a possibility, not a certainty. Which obviously failed. 

 

Another option that is waaaaaaaaay out there could be that he DID fulfill the prophecies, that defeating Galad, the Dragon's half-brother constituted Dragonslaying, and that Demandred dying meant an end to the breaking, since basically when he died, the Shadow's ground forces lost. 

 

My own take is that Demandred used their prophecy to his advantage and twisted the meaning to fit his goals. 

[nolirion]

 

So mhch for Jordan's consistent refusal to admit Olver is Gaidal.

i actually found team jordan's assertion of major deaths in amol quite funny.

 

 

I mean they killed off alot of secondary characters but that's it.

 

Rand alive

Mat alive

Perrin alive

Nynaeve alive

elayne/min/aviendha alive

 

 

Egwene is the only major casualty in the entire book. And yet alot of people were comparng this book to one of GRRM's books. Not even close

GRRM doesn't kill his main hero , he kill support personage whom he make look like major character but who are only there too allow his hero , Arya Jon Daenerys , on a specific path .

 

While I feel sad about Egwene death , I found she is robbed of her ideological battle with the Seachan , she "did it with style" , like Eldrene ay Ellan ay Carlan, she was one exceptional Amyrlin and her moment in Amol where nothing short of grandiose . The book was grim many of the main support die , with a blaze of glory , but still they die , it's hard to let any of them go , even tough we know they aren't truly gone .

The end leave a sours aftertaste  tough , Rand leaving his friend all but the three knowing what's what , with Cadsuane and some other doubting  , off to some adventure , the man have a right to some vacation but would Rand really let Elayne alone ? Wouldn't he want to be a father ? Would he let Min in the Hand of the Seanchan?

For that matter Doe's any of you see either Min Aviendha or Elayne giving up on their man when he is finally free from his destiny ? I think they are going to find him and make him squeal , from delight or other means  .

 

Yeah, it was good that a bad guy did some damage, got rid of an annoying child in Gawyn - who basically got Egwene killed by his actions

At first I was angry at Gawyn for this reason , not only did he kill himself for nothing but endanger Egwene through the process , but in the end I feel he didn't have any other choice . If he didn't use the ring they might never have been able to escape the Sharaan in the first place , and in doing so he doomed himself  , he was already dead when the battle at the Merrilor field started , going after Demandred was perhaps a foolish action but necessary for the battle .

[Edynol]

Wondering if Rand should have gone to Shara.  Was Demandred a False Wyld?  Demandred does say at one point: I am true and he is false.

 

I thought the Dragon Peace was a little silly in concept and implementation.  Tuon sort of nailed it - just a piece of paper.  Sooner or later it will break down - maybe because of the Seachan, maybe because of all the unclaimed territory that will eventually be settled again (Caralain, etc).  Doesn't cover the Seachan mainland, Shara, or Isle of Madmen.  Can't remember if the Sea Folk are in there.

 

I am sure it will hold.  Remember Andor and its alliances are a major superpower now, just as big as Seanchan if not bigger, and with two major factions of channelers right there with them.  Remember, as strong as Seanchan is with it's large number of channelers, it has no male channelers so they aren't well prepared if the black tower decides to pop up on them and put them in line.  Remember it often takes quite a few female channelers to take down one male channeler unless they are weak in the power.  So while Seanchan my have superior numbers, Randland I think has superior offensive strength.

 

Also, I think the WT isn't as bad off after TG as other make out.  Remember a good number of AS were taken when Seanchan attacked the WT, so many of them will have very well survived, and with the treaty, will most likely return to Tar Valon.  Also remember the windfinder have the Bowl of the Winds, which is now, with the choedan kal destroyed, the most powerful ter'angreal on the planet.  Just one good circle could heavily cripple, if not flat out defeat, pretty much any army from a safe distance no matter how many damane they have.

 

But honestly, I don't think it will even come to that in near future.  Not until at least the next age.  Remember that no matter how much you may dislike the Seanchan, they are very honorable people, as much so as the Aiel and Sea Folk.  Remember Tuon when she was kidnapped by Mat?  I am 100% confident she will not go back on her word and will even hang her own people if they decide to try and break the accord.  The Seanchan, despite the bad rep they got in the beginning, are a good and peaceful people when it come to settling down in a territory.  They take care of their people, which includes the ones the conquer, and have proven to be a very compassionate people for the most part.  So I think once everything is settled back in Seanchan, everything is going to be quite alright for many long years to come.

[Ithillian Turambar]

How did Egwene draw on too much of the One Power when she was using a sa'angreal? Is this explained in the book? I thought only Callandor had a flaw that allowed this to potentially happen. I have got the book now so will be starting reading it tonight, but I don't mind spoilers and this is just bugging me.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't think drawing too much of the Power killed her. I think that the reprecussions of her anti-balefire weave strained her body too hard. She didn't burn herself out or kill herself drawing too much, she died because of the strain of what she was doing. That's how I read it anyway. I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt here. 

 

Also, for the entire Asha'man sequence right until Mishraile PoV was anyone else thinking WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO SANDOMERE DAMN IT!!!!?

[Guest Jon Conroy]

I genuinely thought that Mazrim Taim was demondred!

[skalors3]

How did Egwene draw on too much of the One Power when she was using a sa'angreal? Is this explained in the book? I thought only Callandor had a flaw that allowed this to potentially happen. I have got the book now so will be starting reading it tonight, but I don't mind spoilers and this is just bugging me.

It is explained as she drew the power. She stated that her Sa'Angreal didn't have the buffer. I would have to re read to be positive, but I remember that clearly.

[skalors3]

I genuinely thought that Mazrim Taim was demondred!

RJ himself shot that theory down. It was after that quote that I maintained that Dem was in Shara. To many subtle listings for Shara to not be important.

 

I always thought that Roderan was an obvious Red Herring like I maintained that there were to many references to Rands ressurection for it to actually be true. RJ was not one for the obvious.

[MarkDiLillo]

How did Egwene draw on too much of the One Power when she was using a sa'angreal? Is this explained in the book? I thought only Callandor had a flaw that allowed this to potentially happen. I have got the book now so will be starting reading it tonight, but I don't mind spoilers and this is just bugging me.

 

A single line is thrown in before she dies saying that her sa'angreal also lacks this buffer.  It felt like Brandon wrote the scene and then someone pointed out this error and he just threw in one sentence to quickly "correct" it.

[MarkDiLillo]

The book gets worse every day for me. Some of it was really well done and emotional, but I'm starting to slowly revert back to my original thoughts that the last 3 shouldn't have ever been written. The ending (meaning the second half of the book, not specifically the "ending" that RJ wrote...though that has some smaller holes in it as well) was so terrible that I think it may have been preferrable to just have released RJ's writings, notes, summaries, and ideas and let us imagine the final books ourselves.

 

We got a shell of an ending here. So much was left out, unresolved, or just flat out was written and integrated into the story so poorly that it was massively unsatisfying. A lot of the great moments to read were just invented by Sanderson and felt like they were ideas ripped straight out of discussion threads that appeared on the forums over the years. Sure, they delivered and it was exactly what we all wanted to see and know in some respects...but nobody really expected to see forum discussions over the last 10 years all played out in aMoL. And then there were really awkward moments with Mat asking the Heroes of the Horn if he was one of them...it was information that we all wanted to know, but felt really out of character for Mat to be flat out asking the same question. Clearly integrated into the story by the author just to let us have an answer to a question of ours. It just felt so awkward.

 

Major plot points that were extremely weak in my opinion:

 

- Ogier. They felt dropped in just to satisfy RJ's notes.

- Alanna

- Moridin

- Shaidar Haran

- Lanfear

- All of Perrin and Slayer

- Moiraine. WHY exactly was she so necessary when anyone could have filled her role? She just appeared at the meeting and spouted off some corny lines and then that was basically all we saw of her until the end where she becomes a robot standing next to Rand for a few hundred pages.

- Fain

- Demandred. He was awesome, but he was in no way shape or form Demandred or any kind of bad guy we have seen in WoT. Felt like a bad guy from another world was dropped into the story at random.

- Weaving it all together. It was really clunky and lots of it didnt' seem to fit together. The whole Perrin and Mat stuff at the very end was just so forced and out of left field. It felt like Merrilor was the real battle when it should have been the other way around.

- The entire Rand at SG fighting the Dark One sequence felt very weak. I liked the idea, but the visions and logic that was presented to us was weak. It could have been written much better and the logic presented to us in a much sounder way. It really had some strange holes and left us scratching our heads with some of Rand's conclusions.

- Gawyn and Galad. There really could have been much better ways to handle those two. I didn't mind the Gawyn idea of putting on the bloodrings and going after Demandred, but the sword duel and conversation that resulted was ridiculous. And then Galad deciding to repeat the same thing except without any protection other than Mat's medallion? I mean come on, Demandred could have just shot him with lightning and blown him up instantly just like Rahvin did to Mat.

 

On the plus side, the actual writing at Merrilor with Chapter 37 turned out awesome. I really liked how it returned to a TGH type battle where Rand was fighting his battle with the DO while everyone else fought their battle at Merrilor. It was great watching Mat act like a real general, and I loved how the losses piled up and there was a sense that everyone was losing. And then everything came together at the last minute with Olver blowing the Horn. Olver blowing that horn and Lan charging in really were touching moments (despite the circumstances of Lan's battle being absurd). Aside from Demandred being totally out of character, chapter 37 and the whole Merrilor battle really brought everything back and I really felt like I was reading WoT again. Definnitely the pinnacle of the book IMO.

 

Unfortunately a single chapter of good reading doesn't make up for everything else. There were major prophecies that were not fullfilled, and major plot points that were forgotten or dismissed entirely. Overall, a really poor job by Brandon. He really should get laid into for this one because despite a couple emotional scenes done properly, he had 3 books to write this thing and there is no way this should have been so messy, incomplete, and poorly thought out.

 

Lots more I could say, but I dont want to cross into the quality thread.  Just wanted to give me overall impression of the book after its all sunk in for a couple days now.

[KakitaOCU]

I disagree with some and agree with other points you made, Mark. However, could you please limit this to the Quality thread. The one actually about your opinions on the writing. That thread was specifically made for the type of post you just made to try and help keep these focused on plot.