A Game of Thrones - Mafia by Darthe and Ithillian - Game Over, Mafia Wins!

[peacesells]

I would be interested in the info about BG as well. If he has posted his win condition I've missed it. Tina..do you have that?

[Lenlo]

Well Tress your wrong on one thing. I wasnt the hammer, you were.

[Songstress]

Was I, Len? You voted after me, and your vote was counted in the final VC.

 

Vote EP.

 

 

I sincerely wonder if Ned Stark is even in this game, if Joffrey's on the throne.

Wow... I go away for afew hours and this happens. I was skeptical at first but with this theres no way EP is town.

 

Vote EP.

Official Vote Count:

 

Arez Al'Loke (1): Kae

 

Despo (2): EP, BG

 

EP (12): Despo, Andrew, Blackhoof, Arez, TMD, Tiinker, Tina, Tress, Len,The Iron Throne

 

Mynd (1): Peace

 

Tina (1): Razen

 

Not voting (5): Alanna, Jack, Kudaran, Rand, Turin

 

 

 

Lynch Achieved ... Scene incoming cos I need to get something posted to shut you all up for a second.

[Sakaea]

Now we've heard from Tress again, more and more she doesn't seem scummy to me. After reading her last few posts, I'm no longer interested in her lynch.

 

So with that said, Vote Des. As I said earlier, I think I know what Andrew was hinting at, and if I'm wrong, and we lynch Des and he flips town, Andrew should be next.

[bgrishinko]

I would be interested in the info about BG as well. If he has posted his win condition I've missed it. Tina..do you have that?

 

I'm actually a little curious about this myself. I'm uncertain what I've said that would indicate a different win scenario than a typical townie.

[Blackhoof]

My responses in blue:

 

I'm not surprised I'm getting some heat, since I was the one who arguably pushed hardest for his lynch yesterday. But I really don't know how anyone can say I've been "scummy all game". I've given reasons and justifications for all my actions, and continuously tried to get town back on the right track and actually scumhunt. The person I had 2nd on my "ping" list ended up flipping scum, and my casing could have been part of the reason the vig shot at him in the first place.

 

Not only do I feel very strongly that my actions the whole game have shown me to be town, but (1.) I'm also very suspicious of those trying to drive my lynch right now. BG stated yesterday that he could understand (2.) why I was voting EP, just that he didn't agree. He buddies up with Mynd in a subtle way, and the both of them (3.) start winding the town up into setup talk wifom. Then, after saying he saw why I was voting EP yesterday (4.) he says I've looked scummy all game?

 

[...]

 

Either way, I'm gonna vote BG because there's a lot more evidence against him atm. His subtle buddying up to Mynd (oooh and I just thought about this, remember Mynd calling BG out specifically during Day 1 for inactivity? Hrmmmmm...), his scummy setup talk, and (5.) his flip flopping on diff people all look extremely scummy to me atm.

 

That being said, Tress and TMD are climbing up my ping list, and while atm I generally feel Arez to be town, I think his play is def hurting town right now

 

 

Let me address each bolded statement in order:

 

1. So OMGUS then? 3 people are voting for you and conveniently you suspect all three of them at the top of your list.

 

I never said that you three were at the top of my list. I do think however, that the scum team is trying to pursue what they think of as an easy lynch on me. I already suspected you and had cased you before this BG. You were on my list well before you voted for me, or before Mynd flipped scum.

 

2. That's true. However remember how I immediately followed up that statement saying that I didn't like how you called the Mod a "bastard mod" if EP was town? Remember my argument that you were tunnel visioned and pushing the Ned Stark lynch all bloody day?

 

The way EP was describing it it just seemed way too unbelievable. Like I said, if he had gotten his story straight first, and gotten it all out there at once, it woulda been one thing. But every time I read another post of his it seemed to be going further and further out on a limb, and seemed like he was in desperation mode.

 

And going by what EP said, if he was targeted by the same VC'er twice, only the second time it was allowed to change his vote without him being online, it really seemed like an unfair move by the mod, if that's what had happened. As of this point, given EP's alignment, I'm actually thinking there might be two vote manipulation roles out there, possibly more. One could be a VC, the other one a votestealer. Mebbe EP just messed up in thinking he was targeted by the same VC.

 

And I thought that either he was lying and wasn't Ned, or that he had poss been recruited, because going off of everything I had seen from him that day he was pinging harder to me than anyone else.

 

EP has this habit of role revealing and releasing info pretty quickly when town. More so than others. He tends to get the info out there and let it be used rather than waiting on near lynch to do it so I'm willing to let his claims play out for a while. My biggest pause about his claims are the vanilla and role change stuff. I can totally understand why Despo thinks it's total BS. There's a lot happening to one guy and it does seem like it could be a flail. But he's given so many routes for himself to be proven wrong quite easily, I don't see the harm in seeing what he does.

 

Also, my first thought about the Iron Throne thing was that it is some sort of silent vote that doesn't appear till the end of the day. Like, someone could have sent in the silent vote at L-5, we see it as L-5 still but in reality it is L-4 until the lynch is secured and it shows up at the end of the train. That would explain EP's vote being the hammer vote. Also, it seems a lot simpler an explanation to me than EP having both a mysterious midnight moving vote AND an Iron Throne vote as scum. Just sayin.

 

Also I don't like Despo continually mentioning how it could be a "bastard Mod" move etc. etc. That just gives the impression that either you are right or this game is totally unfair which I think IS tunnel-vision when you don't know all the possible roles out there. It feels a tidbit manipulative to try and use this as an arguement.

 

 

3. Seriously Despo, what was actually scummy about setup talk? People talk about it every game and I'd be stupid not to look at the fact that the throne actually talks to us occasionally and try and derive some info from that. But in order to do that, I gotta figure out where the throne fits into the game. And what was WIFOM about it? Name one WIFOMY thing that came from that. We were still scum hunting and trying to find who was the most suspicious, no?

 

The key is timing. After a few days, when you have enough reveals/investigations/mod posts/flavor scenes, setup talk is completely acceptable, and sometimes necessary in finding out how to truly achieve victory for the town. Your Earthbound game for instance, had a unique end-game mechanic that required careful deliberation. DPR's Dark Monocle game comes to mind as well.

 

But that same kind of talk, of conjecture, early in a game, when very little info has yet been revealed, only hurts the town. Period. You should know this BG. Scum use early setup talk to both distract town from scumhunting, and sow little seeds of wifom that can be used late in the game to try and influence someone to vote the wrong way at a crucial moment.

 

I'm sure you realize, after playing many a mafia game on DM, that the town's ability to find scum throughout the game depends a GREAT amount on the scumhunting and activity that goes on early in the game. Crappy, spam filled Day 1's usually result in messy games for town altogether. Active and aggressive day 1's and 2's lead to a more engaged town that also have a lot more opportunities to find scum, due to the general activity of the thread. That's why scum's job is to try and fluster town the first couple of days.

 

And I mean, you have to consider who your partner in crime was, with the whole setup talk. Once Mynd flipped scum, and I went back and reread yall's little back and forth, it seemed eerily like you were laying the tracks, and he was running away with it. It's also happened in so many other games it's not even funny. You've done it yourself, man.

 

4. Never happened. Thanks for saying it did though in an attempt to make it look like I've tunneled on you somehow... also this is the 2nd time you mentioned that I've said you looked scummy all game IN THE SAME POST. Please do not put words in my mouth. I made a case on you which you did nothing to address and instead just shot back more slander.

 

After seeing this, I went back and checked to make sure, because I had gotten that same type of feeling from your post:

 

Well, my ideas of basing who's who on PM wording seemed to be way off. It is now apparent that scum have at least somewhat similar wording in some regards. I believe we have a typical mafia team now, though I still think the Throne is something that can be obtained and held by either side, for good or for bad. Also, is it not obvious to anyone else that Ithi and Darthe are the assistants to the King/Throne that are mentioned?

 

I agree with Razen and others that those final swoop in EP votes deserve some serious consideration, but I hadn't been paying a whole lot of attention to those folks honestly and I'd need to re-read. All 4 or so of them can't all be scum. Songstress in particular tends to be really talkative and very helpful as town, but very lurky and "busy in RL" as scum.

 

I still think that Despo is scum honestly. His accusations of EP flailing over and over failed to address the arguements that EP made to defend himself and he knowingly pushed a lynch on Ned Stark. I think Mynd distanced himself from Despo and buddied up to EP hoping to gain some favor in towns eyes should Despo flip scum or EP flip town, either way it helps his cause. Also he did drop Despo pretty early on for Arez which speaks to me as further evidence of distancing. Also, I happen to know that at least 2 people targeted me last night and I'd very much like to know why.

 

Vote Despo

 

Bold mine. I think I confused you with a couple of other people who had thrown out at me (a few people even mentioned it but didn't vote for me, perhaps trying to start a train without looking like it), when you said the "I still think that Despo is scum" part. My bad.

 

It does feel like I'm being set up tho, that Mynd knew from the beginning that if he defended EP hardcore like he did, it would make me look like scum when EP flipped town, and he could secure a quick lynch on me the next day.

 

5. Aaand Flip flopping. When and where did I do this? I voted and unvoted Nightstrike early on after he gave good reasoning for the questions I had. Please show me any other flip flopping.

 

In regards to me, when you went from somewhat agreeing with me that EP's story seemed a bit sketchy to then saying I had tunnel vision, and also more recently you flip flopped somewhat in your responses to Arez, Then you flip flopped on something you had been going on about with Mynd, something about the wording of role pm's indicating certain win conditions or something.

 

Despo, you are assigning scummy things to me that I never did. You aren't addressing the issues I made about you. I already addressed the accusations you are making towards me. You drove the lynch on EP without listening to reason or anything he had to say to defend himself.

 

You've responded to every accusation I've made at you? My case on you was essentially built on 2 things: setup talk, and your connection to Mynd.

 

You barely responded to the setup talk argument, basically trying to make it seem like you have no idea how setup talk can be considered scummy. You know BG, like I said I've seen you use such opportunities in the past when scum to generate wifom.

 

And you've tried glossing over the Mynd part entirely, it's like you want to make Town forget that it ever happened.

 

And btw, I listened to EP. That was the problem. He was coming off as uberscummy to me. He was using classic scum strats. "Wait just give me one more day....," I'm not going to apologize for pursuing someone I think is scum.

 

What issues have you raised to me that I have not addressed?

 

Cause I got another one for you that I hadn't asked yet. Earlier in the game, you asked Peace if he was king. At the time Peace just shrugged it off and denied it. But it occurred to me, if the mafia team either control the Iron Throne or seek to control it, it seems they would want to eliminate any other claims for the throne. Why would you call attention to it if someone DID hint at being a king? Just doesn't seem like a town move to me.

 

^hodor

 

unvote

 

vote BG

[Lenlo]

You were Tress as it only took 11 to lynch on the previous day.

[Songstress]

You were Tress as it only took 11 to lynch on the previous day.

 

You voted after me, and your vote was counted. Why are you trying to deny this?

[Lenlo]

Im not denying it. I was on at the end. Im just stating that the hammer was yours. Would you like me to go back and quote the number of people needed for a lynch?

[Songstress]

You realize when you vote after the hammer, they don't count your vote, right?

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

 

 

 

 

See?

[Songstress]

With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

 

 

 

 

See?

 

I know what it said, Len. Obviously EP took more than 11 votes to lynch. Your vote was counted, therefore your vote was needed.

 

The point here is, if you thought I was the hammer, why did you vote?

 

And you still haven't addressed why I brought it up.

[Lenlo]

Oooor the mod just put my vote their because I voted and not because it was needed. I doubt there was anything to EP that made him take exactly one more vote to lynch.

 

I voted because I didnt see your vote before I placed mine. Phones are a pain to post things with.

 

I still havnt addressed why you brought the fact that I voted up? I figured it was because you wanted to know something about it. If there was an alterior motive behind all of this for you then please, share with the class.

[Niniel]

I´m in a hurry but got back to quote where I figured BG hasn´t got the same win condition as I but the quotes disappeared and I don´t have time to find it again. It starts from somewhere around #910. This is where I thought that Mynd and BG didn´t have the same win condition as I and it got me to believe that Tiinker and Kae have the same as I. I had not made any notes on Lenlo but now I saw that his posts are a little vague too. Not sure about him.

 

And why do you go on about not being on EP´s lynch? It´s clear that you are from the vc.

[Lenlo]

Uhhhh, when did I say I wasnt on the lynch? I just said Tress was the hammer. I was on the lynch. I was the 12th vote. An unneeded superflourus vote, but still on it. There a reason words are being put in my mouth?

[Songstress]

Uhhhh, when did I say I wasnt on the lynch? I just said Tress was the hammer. I was on the lynch. I was the 12th vote. An unneeded superflourus vote, but still on it. There a reason words are being put in my mouth?

 

I have never seen a moderator show unneeded votes in the final VC for the lynch. Your vote was counted.

 

Oooor the mod just put my vote their because I voted and not because it was needed. I doubt there was anything to EP that made him take exactly one more vote to lynch.

 

I voted because I didnt see your vote before I placed mine. Phones are a pain to post things with.

 

I still havnt addressed why you brought the fact that I voted up? I figured it was because you wanted to know something about it. If there was an alterior motive behind all of this for you then please, share with the class.

 

So you thought you were the hammer, then, at the time you voted?

 

I raised the question because I've been grilled about my choice to vote EP after Mynd's flip, and people have ignored your vote, which Peace should have easily considered as opportunistic as mine.

[Lenlo]

Thats true Tress, I didnt notice Peace jumping on yours but not mine. It is rather odd. I still think hes town mind you, the whole Lannister thing, but its not something in his favor. Glad to know theres no motives though. Always a good thing. For your question, yes I considered myself the hammer. Also im glad we got to have this weird little talk. Im getting a good feeling from you because of it.

[Ithillian Turambar]

For clarity, and because you never surprise me with how you all make stuff up, the number required to lynch is always clearly stated.

 

However, I did list all the votes received in order because people like to remember who votes who.

 

I hope this helps.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Official Vote Count:

 

BG (4): Alanna, Despo, Blackhoof

 

Despo(5): BG, TMD, Basel, Andrew, Kae

 

Songstress (2): Peace, Tina

 

TinaHel (1): Razen

 

TMD (2): Arez-2, Len

 

 

Not voting (5): Jack_D, RandA lThor, songstress, Tiinker, Turin

 

 

 

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch

 

Here is your new countdown timer:

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20120705T23&p0=745&msg=Night

[hazelkrs1]

So I have some more thoughts about a few other things that happened while I've been gone, but first I wanted to address this as it really piqued my interest and I think this is an important issue we should try our best to figure out. Tina, this is in response to your last post here:

 

I´m in a hurry but got back to quote where I figured BG hasn´t got the same win condition as I but the quotes disappeared and I don´t have time to find it again. It starts from somewhere around #910. This is where I thought that Mynd and BG didn´t have the same win condition as I and it got me to believe that Tiinker and Kae have the same as I. I had not made any notes on Lenlo but now I saw that his posts are a little vague too. Not sure about him.

 

And why do you go on about not being on EP´s lynch? It´s clear that you are from the vc.

 

First as a quick mention that was a little strange that Lenlo seemed that jumpy about being called the hammer on the lynch. I haven't played with him much, so I don't know what his playstyle is like, but that seemed like a silly semantics issue that he got somewhat defensive about. FOS @ Lenlo.

 

But for now I'm much more interested in your thoughts about BG's win condition, because I went back and discovered something interesting. First of all, the page where you can find these quotes is where Mynd and BG buddy up the most clearly, and I recommend everyone go back and look at some of this back and forth because it's very intriguing in retrospect.

 

A true Game of Thrones would be to have all town players, in keeping with how everyone sees themselves as town, and each of them competing for the Iron Throne. Does anyone have a win condition that is similar to "when all threats to your crown are eliminated' or "all threats to your claim to the throne" are eliminated?

 

Mynd just made a major scum slip.

 

The fact that he asked this question means he does not have a "town" win condition. If he did..then his point would be moot and there would not be a full game of competing factions. My win condition states I win with town. Therefore his theory is bogus and he is scum

 

VOTE MYND.

A true Game of Thrones would be to have all town players, in keeping with how everyone sees themselves as town, and each of them competing for the Iron Throne. Does anyone have a win condition that is similar to "when all threats to your crown are eliminated' or "all threats to your claim to the throne" are eliminated?

 

Mynd just made a major scum slip.

 

The fact that he asked this question means he does not have a "town" win condition. If he did..then his point would be moot and there would not be a full game of competing factions. My win condition states I win with town. Therefore his theory is bogus and he is scum

 

VOTE MYND.

 

Hm, I missed this before. You are right. It looks suspicious.

 

Peace points out the strangeness of Mynd's post, and you agreed with him right here Tina

 

A true Game of Thrones would be to have all town players, in keeping with how everyone sees themselves as town, and each of them competing for the Iron Throne. Does anyone have a win condition that is similar to "when all threats to your crown are eliminated' or "all threats to your claim to the throne" are eliminated?

 

Mynd just made a major scum slip.

 

The fact that he asked this question means he does not have a "town" win condition. If he did..then his point would be moot and there would not be a full game of competing factions. My win condition states I win with town. Therefore his theory is bogus and he is scum

 

VOTE MYND.

 

If you are not a potential heir to the throne, then of course your win condition would be normal, as is mine. If you were a Stannis, Danerys, Joffrey, or Ned, perhaps your win condition is different but still town. I am not an heir to the throne and I win with the town, but those who are might have a different win condition.

 

What I think is going on in this game is that everyone is town, but the heirs to the throne have a unique win condition about eliminating other threats to the throne.

 

This isn't the first time Mynd has introduced setup talk, but it's probably the most overt and what's even more interesting about it is BG's follow up to Mynd's post:

 

A) I think Mynd has a point about steering clear of claimed Ned Stark

 

B) I think there is a specific person who holds the Iron Throne that is given extra abilities

 

C) I think certain players have ambitions to claim the Throne

 

D) I think there are others that serve the throne loyally with no ambition to become King.

 

E) I believe it is my duty, and the duty of the town, to protect the King.

 

That last part really sticks out to me right now. I really hope I don't get any negative mod attention for this, but here goes: My win condition states nothing about a King. While it's not exactly your typical run of the mill win condition, it still refers to town and enemies of town, and once again makes no mention of a King.

 

Mynd quotes BG and agrees with him, conveniently leaving out the part about the King.

 

C) I think certain players have ambitions to claim the Throne

 

D) I think there are others that serve the throne loyally with no ambition to become King.

 

 

This is essentially what I'm trying to say. Most of us are just town, with various roles and such. Some of us could be town with a win condition that is throne oriented while others of us are just town. When we have one true king, all threats to the town are eliminated. Make sense?

 

Then BG finishes off the little exchange

 

I'm glad we are on the same page Mynd. I suppose the Starks don't count as people who are trying to claim the Iron Throne since none of them have wanted it. Not Ned. Not Robb. He's King in the North, but not Iron Throne King. I also think the current King spoke to us directly yesterday with all that Hash Browns talk.

 

Notice how both of them seem to be working in tandem together to plant this notion about the King business?

 

There's a strong indication that we have received messages from a King, but not from the same one. In fact? Guess who pointed that out first? BG. Well I got to thinking.

 

A Song of Ice and Fire is by no means a traditional fantasy series. The King is no hero, and in fact it's difficult to find that many characters at all that are very clearly morally defined. I mean even Robb broke his vow to... well I don't want to give it away but those who have read know what I'm talking about, so my point is no one is clean in the series.

 

Since this isn't a traditional fantasy series we're talking about, you have to think for a moment, what your average Jon Q. Westerosi would have to say about all the different people trying to vie for the Iron Throne: "They should all bugger off and leave us in peace". After all, not ONE of the people trying to attain that seat of power really give two flips about the common citizen, and all their warring and raiding and politicking has done is to cause the deaths of countless fathers, brothers, sons (and the rapes of who knows how many women) that could be raising crops on their farm preparing for winter. Even though a dire threat to the entire realm is brewing above the Wall, all the Lannisters and Stannis's and such care about is trying to wrestle their greedy hands on a bit more power.

 

It's my belief that town IN FACT might be better served to do their best to ignore the royal proclamations. After all, they even seem to contradict one another at times, and for all we know it could be a scum team that is letting a different mafioso write it every time just to throw us off. Honestly, it's somewhat of an ingenious strategy, both a way to influence town and to have them all running about trying to curry the King's favor, when really we should be giving those King's speeches the bird. And Mynd and BG set it up beautifully.

 

And even when Tiinker doesn't seem convinced, as his role doesn't really seem to go along with this concept, BG still attempts to make the whole "King" thing still viable.

 

While it makes sense, I disagree. My character is town and described as town but it's not someone who I believe to be loyal to the realm or in any way on the same page as the Starks..

 

But you don't have any desire to be King, therefore Town.

 

BG, I think you need to come clean about your "I believe it is my duty, and the duty of the town, to protect the King." statement. I'm town, but that doesn't seem to be what my win condition states at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and TL,DR: BG wants us to believe we should be protecting the King (even tho there's a good chance that the Iron Throne is controlled by mafia atm), and I say him and Mynd's scummy agenda can go rule 14 itself. My duty is protect the town, and those not of the town should be wary. (paraphrasing btw, I really hope I don't get modkilled )

[hazelkrs1]

So, regarding Andrew's vote on me:

 

At first I thought it was a crazy scummy move, but then saw this

 

VOTE DESPO

 

You are obviously scum.

 

What is obvious about him being scum?

 

I don't understand the question. Despo's scumminess is so obviously obvious. I mean sure, it's a complete 180 to everything I'd said before, but a guy's allowed to change his mind isn't he?

 

Seems pretty clear that he's hinting at being VC'd here. And his use of the term "obvious" leads me to believe that he's saying that I'm an obvious candidate for being framed today, or that him switching his vote to me would be so obvious of a mafia ploy. At least that's kinda how it's reading to me atm, I could be wrong. But I do think it's interesting seeing other's reactions to it, so if I'm right that was fairly ingenious of you Andrew.

 

Firstly, Arez guessed pretty quickly that it was a VC, in fact he was the very next post. This is really strange, because when I first saw Andrew's post I didn't think it was indicating a VC at all. Arez has played pretty antitown this game, something tells me we're letting him off the hook too much by thinking his scumminess is due to his... well his nature. Maybe he's scummy because he's scum /shrug

 

Did he get Vote-controlled?

I'm just asking? I've never seen anyone just vote like that, when you vote without giving a reason, you paint a target on your back. And almost everyone knows it, so why did he do so?

My conclusion was that he probably was vote controlled or something similar to that...

 

Not only that, but he also suggests that a second vote controller might be town

 

Oh, Maybe there are 2, maybe there's one in a third party, heck.. Maybe there is one in town. I'm not saying I know, I just thought it might be so.

 

Hardcore ping right here. Judging from how the vote controls have been done, I think both (or more) of them have been pretty scummy so far, none of them have helped push a town agenda.

 

I can see a case on Tress, considering what Tina just said ^^, I can see a case on TMD for inactivity then abruptly appearing, and I think I might know what Andrew is getting at concerning Des. I'd still like to hear a case from him, however.

Now we've heard from Tress again, more and more she doesn't seem scummy to me. After reading her last few posts, I'm no longer interested in her lynch.

 

So with that said, Vote Des. As I said earlier, I think I know what Andrew was hinting at, and if I'm wrong, and we lynch Des and he flips town, Andrew should be next.

 

Major ping from Kae here as well. Looks like she didn't get the same hint from Andrew's post that I picked up, and is trying to run with the whole "obvious" thing. Incidentally she was also one of the people to faintly FOS me a few times for "scummy play all game" before voting, just so she could justify her vote more easily. Arez and Kae are launching up my list right now, and I think there's a good chance one of them is the other vote controller.

 

I would be interested in the info about BG as well. If he has posted his win condition I've missed it. Tina..do you have that?

 

I'm actually a little curious about this myself. I'm uncertain what I've said that would indicate a different win scenario than a typical townie.

 

I quoted it above, if that's the one Tina was referring to.

[hazelkrs1]

I believe it is my duty, and the duty of the town, to protect the King.

[Basel Gill]

You seem to be flailing around a bit this day, Despo.

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

Happy Independence Day :)

 

A whole day to celebrate the wonderfulness of Wil Smith and Jeff Goldblum, and Aliens, and non existent Fuel Delivery Locations

[Ithillian Turambar]

Official Vote Count:

 

BG (4): Alanna, Despo, Blackhoof

 

Despo(6): BG, TMD, Basel, Andrew, Kae

 

Songstress (2): Peace, Tina

 

TinaHel (1): Razen

 

TMD (2): Arez-2, Len

 

 

Not voting (5): Jack_D, RandA lThor, songstress, Tiinker, Turin

 

 

 

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch

 

Here is your new countdown timer:

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20120705T23&p0=745&msg=Night

 

 

Yes ... the vote count IS correct