Is Taim Actually Demandred???

[Lightflame]

Of course he's not. RJ himself said Taimandred was not true, so that means it now has as much credibility as claiming Tamandred just because Taim and Tam have similar names and Taim was once thought to be Demandred. No the answer is far craftier than those new theories that suggest Demandred is really Grady/Naeff/Rhuarc/Dyelin/Weiramon/Perrin/Flinn/Androl/Mat/Bashere/Egwene/Gawyn/Galad/Rand/Moiraine/Thom/Superman/Darlin/The Dark One/One Of The Dark One Seals.

 

Obviously Demandred is Cenn Buie. There is so much proof. For example, Rand, Mat, and Perrin often mentioned early in the story that Cenn Buie was old. Channelers gain extra lifespan, so Cenn could be old because he was Demandred. Also, in Nynaeve's Accepted testing, she sees a very evil (and possibly Darkfriend) women make Cenn the mayor of Two Rivers. Mayor is a position of authority (and the Forsaken want authority), and what kind of Darkfriend wouldn't help a Forsaken if ordered to? As well, Trollocs attack the Two Rivers twice when Cenn is there, and Demandred can command Trollocs. Another point is that Cenn lived near Rand, and Demandred would have wanted to position himself near the Dragon Reborn.

 

Perhaps the greatest hints come from Cenn's speeches early on. He says to Rand, "Do not speak the Great Lord's name or bad things like finding out you are the Dragon Reborn will happen." He also says, "Watch out or the Chosen will get you, particularly Demandred, the greatest of all, evil more powerful and evil than Narg."

 

However, despite this proof most certainly proving Cenn to be a Forsaken (in the eyes of Whitecloaks), Cenn isn't the only person Demandred is masquerading as. Just like Rand is The Dragon Reborn/ The Car'a'car/ The King of Illian/ The King of Tear/ Santa Claus/ The Coramoor, Demandred is multiple people.

 

The other person Demandred is pretending to be is Elayne. The proof is that Elayne is very close to Rand, and his heart would be broken if he learned she was Forsaken. Also, suspciously, Elayne is one of the 1800 characters who has never been in the same room as Demandred, but she is also the only main character who has never met Demandred's other identity Cenn Buie, and that is strange. It would also be ironic if Elayne, who pretended to be a Forsaken was Demandred.

 

If you want to know why this isn't mentioned in Elayne's POV, it's because Demandred's memories are sealed when he becomes Elayne, and temporarily placed into Mat's head, just like everything else. I even think Mat got Robert Jordan's memories.

 

In conclusion, this proves that Elyas is an Indian who loves teepees and that Perrin should be tied up under a sign that says, "Beware of dog".

[DigitalSoul]

I still mantain that Demandred is Bela

[MatBloodyCauthon]

You guys crack me up LMAO!!!

 

 

I don't think Demandred is impersonating anyone he just hasnt shown himself in the storyline yet or he is one of the Aiel just observing Rand and buying his time but hasnt yet been givin a name that we know of yet he is just an anonymous Aiel 20 crowns on it.

[Manscher]

Sorry to spoil your awesome theory, but Elayne and Demandred have been seen in the same room, he spies on her when she visits the throne room in TAR :p

[Lightflame]

Sorry to spoil your awesome theory, but Elayne and Demandred have been seen in the same room, he spies on her when she visits the throne room in TAR :p

Well, it is TAR so Demandred could have made a copy of himself or something. I'm sure Elayne, Nynaeve, Egwene, Rand, Mat, Perrin, Thom, Morgase and Dyelin will be very shocked to learn that Elayne was Demandred the whole time.

[rand4747]

Egwene is Demandred :P

[Superhal]

Obviously he is one of the Red Ajah. Who else would Demand-Red?

[Lightflame]

Obviously he is one of the Red Ajah. Who else would Demand-Red?

The grining Aiel from ToM (shiver) of course! Aiel have red hair! And beer! (I always mentally pronounce Aiel "ale").

[Leyrann]

No, it is even different. Cenn Buie is a channeler, and he killed Demandred, and impersonated him after that. 50 Andoran gold crowns on it.

[Clayden69]

Demandred is Mandarb and is going to turn on Lan and command Trollocs in the Gap

 

BTW original post, LMAO

[MatBloodyCauthon]

Obviously he is one of the Red Ajah. Who else would Demand-Red?

The grining Aiel from ToM (shiver) of course! Aiel have red hair! And beer! (I always mentally pronounce Aiel "ale").

He's either an aiel or one of the seafolk lol he likes looking at boobies on the sea lol

[FarShainMael]

Demandred doesn't exist. He's a figment of the other Forsakens' imagination. And the DO, and SH. And Kisman. They're all as mad as a very mad thing.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Guys! Taim is not Demandred. Olver is not Gaidal Cain. There are plenty of new theories out there to discuss, so lets not rehash what RJ has already debunked.

[Songstress]

Guys! Taim is not Demandred. Olver is not Gaidal Cain. There are plenty of new theories out there to discuss, so lets not rehash what RJ has already debunked.

 

Thread killer! ;)

 

(Seriously, though, did you read the OP?)

[Lightflame]

No, it is even different. Cenn Buie is a channeler, and he killed Demandred, and impersonated him after that. 50 Andoran gold crowns on it.

Dang it, you're right.

 

THIS IS CONFIRMED IN AMOL GUYS!!!!!!!

 

 

Okay not really.

 

[Silver Neccho]

 

No, it is even different. Cenn Buie is a channeler, and he killed Demandred, and impersonated him after that. 50 Andoran gold crowns on it.

Dang it, you're right.

 

THIS IS CONFIRMED IN AMOL GUYS!!!!!!!

 

 

Okay not really.

 

Once upon a time, in a thread long, long ago...

 

What if tWOT is real and we are just another world reachable by the portal stones? Demandred is Justin Bieber, just sayin.

[Entreri]

Taim could be a clone of Demandred. Oh yessssssssssssss.

[jedman67]

Supposedly, Demandred disguised himself as Taim in one point of the series in order to command the renegade Ashaman to kill Rand in the Sun Palace. "Kill the Lord Dragon, preciousss, yesss we must kill its! *gollum*!"

[udbabor520]

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

[Sabio]

There is no proof Jordan ever intended Tam and Dem to be the same, it wouldn't of made any sense.  How could Dem being taking of Shara, running the black tower, and doing all that recruiting? Not to mention Dems hate of LTT was so bad if he ever came face to face with Rand he probably would of tried to kill him.  I honestly don't think they were ever suppose to be the same people.

 

Also confused on how we know it was Dem who ordered the asha'man attack in the sun palace, seeing how Taim also wanted Rand dead. 

[Mr Ares]

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

There are a significant number of times when fans guessed reveals ahead of time - if you're going to foreshadow everything, it's only to be expected. What's so special about Taimandred that that and that alone is the one thing that RJ ever changed because people guessed? And no, you cannot see similar changes in GRRM's work, because he doesn't make changes based on fan guesses either.

[udbabor520]

 

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

There are a significant number of times when fans guessed reveals ahead of time - if you're going to foreshadow everything, it's only to be expected. What's so special about Taimandred that that and that alone is the one thing that RJ ever changed because people guessed? And no, you cannot see similar changes in GRRM's work, because he doesn't make changes based on fan guesses either.

 

 

 

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

There are a significant number of times when fans guessed reveals ahead of time - if you're going to foreshadow everything, it's only to be expected. What's so special about Taimandred that that and that alone is the one thing that RJ ever changed because people guessed? And no, you cannot see similar changes in GRRM's work, because he doesn't make changes based on fan guesses either.

 

 

 

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

There are a significant number of times when fans guessed reveals ahead of time - if you're going to foreshadow everything, it's only to be expected. What's so special about Taimandred that that and that alone is the one thing that RJ ever changed because people guessed? And no, you cannot see similar changes in GRRM's work, because he doesn't make changes based on fan guesses either.

 

 

GRRM: Aegon, Jon, Dany, the mad queen etc. Many fantasy writers mention in their interviews that we are living in the age of 'internet curse', see the very active messageboards, forums. They are frustated because the big secrets, the big twists are no more secrets, twists, they are merely Options because the fans analyzing-analyzing-analyzing every little details and they share their solutions with the other posters. I learned more from this place (and wotmania) than from just reading the books. For example your posts are excellent (even I don't agree with you many times), you point out/draw attention to many little things, and that is very useful. You know what I mean.

 

Taim: well, I think that was a fascinating idea, the enemy is 'in the bosom of Rand'   Not hiding whoknowswhere they are constantly with Rand behind masks. (see DarkMin theories etc.) Jordan first denied then admitted that he was lurking all the time in WoT forums, so that's why so many people thought the T=D was the plan what he had to change to T and D are two different characters. While I accept that the only 2000-3000-4000 fans were active at various sites (out of 6-7 millions), as I mentioned above, writers want to suprise all of us, and when they are feeling/seeing the revealing their big twists, they feel that they have to change their original plans. Similar things happen in the movie industry.

 

I remember reading at TL that many readers didn't want Jordan's original ending (from the 80s), because (putting aside the internet thing) everybody changes, so Jordan had changed over the years and what he envisioned 30 years ago is no more today than a myth.

 

 

“I was talking of change. My epic, if I compose it—and Loial’s book—will be no more than seed, if we are both lucky. Those who know the truth will die, and their grandchildren’s grandchildren will remember something different. And their grandchildren’s grandchildren something else again. Two dozen generations, and you may be the hero of it, not Rand.”

“Me?” she laughed.

“Or maybe Mat, or Lan. Or even myself.” He grinned at her, warming his weathered face. “Thom Merrilin. Not a gleeman—but what? Who can say? Not eating fire, but breathing it. Hurling it about like an Aes Sedai.” He flourished his cloak. “Thom Merrilin, the mysterious hero, toppling mountains and raising up kings.” The grin became a rich belly laugh. “Rand al’Thor may be lucky if the next Age remembers his name correctly.”

[Suttree]

This topic comes up from time to time. RJ has explicitly stated Taim was never intended to be Demandred and he was surprised by the heavy fan reaction. I for one choose to take him at his word.

[Mr Ares]

 

 

Yes, he is.

 

They should release a 'revised' edition (book 9), where they could mend Jordan's fault.

 

Make a long story short: Jordan was .issed that fans revealed Taim real identity, so he changed it. (You could see similar changes in GRRM's books: he constantly changes the characters, because the fans' hive mind will always find out everything, so he has no other choice but pulling things out of thin air.)

 

If T and D in one character, then there is a sense/purport in the storyline, otherwise (two char.) has no meaning at all

There are a significant number of times when fans guessed reveals ahead of time - if you're going to foreshadow everything, it's only to be expected. What's so special about Taimandred that that and that alone is the one thing that RJ ever changed because people guessed? And no, you cannot see similar changes in GRRM's work, because he doesn't make changes based on fan guesses either.

 

GRRM: Aegon, Jon, Dany, the mad queen etc. Many fantasy writers mention in their interviews that we are living in the age of 'internet curse', see the very active messageboards, forums. They are frustated because the big secrets, the big twists are no more secrets, twists, they are merely Options because the fans analyzing-analyzing-analyzing every little details and they share their solutions with the other posters. I learned more from this place (and wotmania) than from just reading the books. For example your posts are excellent (even I don't agree with you many times), you point out/draw attention to many little things, and that is very useful. You know what I mean.

Firstly, that's a list of names, not examples that prove your point. As for the big secrets no longer being secrets, people have always been able to analyse, it's just now it's easier to share. But if you try and reshape your story because someone has guessed correctly, then you're going to run into problems - firstly, as any possible plot twist, no matter how crackpot and outlandish, can be guessed by fans, and secondly, because if you foreshadow stuff you need to make that foreshadowing work still. Many authors limit their online activities, or refuse to change things they have planned. Bear in mind that the "internet curse" (in the sense of fans guessing and sharing what's going to happen) could be avoided by writing shorter series or standalones. Of course, one of the benefits of the internet age is that communities can form to discuss a work, and then give recommendations for other books, and so give greater exposure. Places like this and Westeros led me to Malazan, Prince of Nothing, Long Price, First Law, and others.

 

Taim: well, I think that was a fascinating idea, the enemy is 'in the bosom of Rand'   Not hiding whoknowswhere they are constantly with Rand behind masks. (see DarkMin theories etc.) Jordan first denied then admitted that he was lurking all the time in WoT forums, so that's why so many people thought the T=D was the plan what he had to change to T and D are two different characters. While I accept that the only 2000-3000-4000 fans were active at various sites (out of 6-7 millions), as I mentioned above, writers want to suprise all of us, and when they are feeling/seeing the revealing their big twists, they feel that they have to change their original plans. Similar things happen in the movie industry.

You're never going to surprise everyone. Any writer who tries is setting himself up for failure. The thing with Taimandred is that Taim's very first scene contains evidence against it, as he proves his identity not with his appearance, but with knowledge only Mazrim Taim would know. That means that Taimandred supporters now have to come up with elaborate explanations for how Demandred knew that. It would be so much simpler if he just looked like him - "Illusion" is all the explanation you need, but if he relies on knowledge, we end up with theories revolving around him being captured, freed by the Shadow, taken into their custody, interrogated, then replaced by Demandred doing a bad Illusion of him. Why? Yes, Taim certainly has a few things about him that ring alarm bells, and yes, he shares the "not smiling" thing with Demandred, so I can see the basis for suspicion, but it really struggles to explain anything without throwing up further questions.

 

Plus, as Suttree says, RJ denied that it was ever the plan, and we've never seen him make similar changes. What makes Taimandred so special?

[Cybertrolloc]

It's understandable.

 

Taim and Dem's descriptions and habits shown on screen are just too similar for too long. From hooked nose to merciless eyes :)

 

Dem's compadre Semi and new best bud Graendal are an easy explanation for obtaining info besides seeing compulsion out of most of the FS thus far. Plus there's the Taim captured, freed, whatever stuff that's on top of all the rumor lists heard by so many of the mains.

 

Add the lack of Dem stuff on screen and most of the post Ishy shadow scheming involve Sammy in one way or another usually in a lead or solo role, especially the things Rand worries about most. Whether Dem's the one to first destabilize Shara or he just puts his army together in the two months post KoD...