Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

How many Aes Sedai were there at the height of their power? When was their height of power? (Pre-Trolloc Wars, during, just after, before Hawkwing?) If it wasn't Trolloc Wars, what were their numbers?

Someone with the BWB could give you a better answer, but based on comments about the WT kitchens and dinning halls, I'd say that a thousand novices used to be the norm. That would imply that there might've been as many as 10K AS, but I'm not sure.

 

As to the top of their power, if you mean in this Age, your guess seems reasonable to me. As in, not long before the Trolloc Wars (before Ishamael was free for what seems to be the first time since just after the Breaking).

[Luckers]

@Tensai0211 What makes you think that they don't know about the Kin?

 

There a viewpoint from Falion where they kill a reader while looking for the cache, it might simply be RJ was keeping them secret because its before Elayne and Nynaeve go to see Mat and get taken to the KIn. But when i was reading it i was wondering why they were killing Callie if they knew the Kin existed why they didn't infiltrate the Kin?

 

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

 

The logic for it is layed out by Adeleas, when first proving that Vandene's killer must be Aes Sedai. It runs that the Black Ajah's search for the Kin's ter'angreal shows there are no darkfriends amongst the Kin (a point we can reinforce with considerable strength given Sammael made contact with Darkfriend circles [including darkfriends with wide influence upon other darkfriends] in Ebou Dar specifically to set them this task, and yet learned nothing of this].

 

If there were Darkfriends amongst the Kin, presumably the Shadow would have looked to them first, for all the reasons that Falion and Ispan were torturing redbelts--for that matter, the same reason Nynaeve and Elayne sought them out. And you would think the existence of darkfriend channelers would be something the Forsaken would have heard of--if they learned enough of modern darkfriend hierarchies to find Mili Skane and Carridan, anyway.

 

So yeah, it's obviously not rock solid, but it is reasonable evidence to suggest that there likely aren't any, or many, darkfriends amongst the Kin. Which does make sense, as the Kin are only Tower initiates that failed the Training, and the sort of women who would become darkfriends are the sought who are more likely to seek out the Shadow immediately upon being put out of the Tower (i.e. Mili Skane) then to join the Kin with their strict rules and their age based hierarchy (place new comers at the very bottom). The Kin have strict rules too about who they approach and how, and a woman seeking to become a darkfriend would likely exclude herself pretty damn fast.

 

 

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

 

That's not what i'm talking about, i'm wondering why they're torturing and killing random Readers in Ebou Dar if they know there is an organisation based there that takes in runaways and cast outs.

 

They weren't killing random readers, so far as I recall. They were torturing red belts specifically because they knew of the Kin and were thought they'd be a good place to start--the red belt being the easily identified potential kin members.

 

They knew as much as any Aes Sedai remember--that the Kin existed in Ebou Dar, but beyond that no specifics, and considerable misinformation mixed in, all they had to go on was throwing a net for channelers.

 

How many Aes Sedai were there at the height of their power? When was their height of power? (Pre-Trolloc Wars, during, just after, before Hawkwing?) If it wasn't Trolloc Wars, what were their numbers?

 

There's a part were it refers to the Tower holding four thousand Aes Sedai, with perhaps twice that out in the world, so I'd say 7 to 8 thousand.

[EmperorAllspice]

Is it ever explained why Aes Sedai are so insufferable?

[Luckers]

Is it ever explained why Aes Sedai are so insufferable?

 

Yes, here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50876-the-life-and-times-of-an-aes-sedai/

[Hagazussa]

Someone with the BWB could give you a better answer, but based on comments about the WT kitchens and dinning halls, I'd say that a thousand novices used to be the norm. That would imply that there might've been as many as 10K AS, but I'm not sure.

 

In New Spring it is mentioned that the White Tower was built for 3000 Aes Sedai so I assume that was probably the number, or it might be twice that if the same tendency as in the start of the book was common then with about half being out and about in the world at all times., it do not say how many novices and Accepted there used to be but there are two wells of novice quarters and two wells of Accepted quarters and by New Spring one of each is locked up and not in use and the other one is far from full and Moiraine comments that there used to be two to a room.

 

One question, at what point did the Aes Sedai decide it was a brilliant idea to start severing male channelers. We know they spent 300 years after the breaking trying to come up with an alternative but did they start before or did they start the practice of gentling male channelers after the 300 years? Also did anyone try to do that as a solution during the Breaking itself?

Edited November 25, 2012 by Hagazussa

[damandred]

does anybody know the ID of the kinswoman, who nearly took Gawyn's foot off on his return to the WT to foil the bloodknives in ToM. I have always taken that as a hint of DF's among the kin.

[Luckers]

does anybody know the ID of the kinswoman, who nearly took Gawyn's foot off on his return to the WT to foil the bloodknives in ToM. I have always taken that as a hint of DF's among the kin.

 

It wasn't the Kinswoman's fault. The Gateway closed because Perrin brought the dreamspike to Tar Valon at that moment.

[damandred]

ah yeah nice one should of saw that. doh

[Random_Person13]

when is the last time mat has "remembered" something from his other memories? I am trying to remember and I can't seem to (I don't have access to the books currently :( T.T)

[yoniy0]

when is the last time mat has "remembered" something from his other memories? I am trying to remember and I can't seem to (I don't have access to the books currently :( T.T)

I don't recall what the last time was, but if you're concerned with how long it's been, then not very long at all. He had those memories when he discussed finnland with Birgitte.

[EmperorAllspice]

What's Fain's deal? At about 2/3 of the way through LOC. What powers does Fain have?

 

How does he bully trollocs and Fades around. I keep being told that he's more than Darkfriend. He's part of Shadar Lagoth, you don't need to explain that. But at this moment, what are his abilities?

[Morden]

Fear mainly, but also the taint of Mashadar helps control the humans and trollocs at least as it corrupts them to an extent. The myrrdrall are a bit different, I think its mainly the fact that he can and will torture them. His abilities open up much more greatly later on though.

[EmperorAllspice]

Do Angreal and Sa'angreal increase your ability to reach the source or does it only help in letting you take in more of it?

 

What I mean is: If Rand was shielded then managed to grab Calandor, would he be able to burst through the shield easily or does it only work if he's able to touch the source in the first place?

[Agitel]

Do Angreal and Sa'angreal increase your ability to reach the source or does it only help in letting you take in more of it?

 

What I mean is: If Rand was shielded then managed to grab Calandor, would he be able to burst through the shield easily or does it only work if he's able to touch the source in the first place?

 

I would guess that it would be more difficult to shield someone who's already channeling through an angreal. However, I would think that an already shielded person would not have an advantage if they tried to use one. The channeler pulls additional power through the angreal, but I'd imagine a shield would be just as much of a wall between them and the angreal as it is between them and the Source. I don't know if the latter issue has been directly addressed, but that's how I reasoned it out through my knowledge of the metaphysics.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Agitel

[TNine]

Do Angreal and Sa'angreal increase your ability to reach the source or does it only help in letting you take in more of it?

 

What I mean is: If Rand was shielded then managed to grab Calandor, would he be able to burst through the shield easily or does it only work if he's able to touch the source in the first place?

I believe it would be the latter. Rand has the Choedan Kal when he is shielded by the Aes Sedai, and it doesn't seem to help. The shield is a buffer between the channeler and the OP, and i don't believe it would be possible to activate an angreal without the OP.

[Sid]

Rand has the Choedan Kal when he is shielded by the Aes Sedai, and it doesn't seem to help.

When is this, exactly?

[Finnssss22]

Do Angreal and Sa'angreal increase your ability to reach the source or does it only help in letting you take in more of it?

 

What I mean is: If Rand was shielded then managed to grab Calandor, would he be able to burst through the shield easily or does it only work if he's able to touch the source in the first place?

I believe it would be the latter. Rand has the Choedan Kal when he is shielded by the Aes Sedai, and it doesn't seem to help. The shield is a buffer between the channeler and the OP, and i don't believe it would be possible to activate an angreal without the OP.

 

When was Rand ever shield when he actually had the Choedan Kal with him? And to be honest, the only other time I can think of off the top of my when he was ever shield besides LoC was when he went to the WT in ToM.

He was shielded when he had the Fat Man angreal in LoC but that was by a full 13 and from what we've been told, it doesn't matter how powerful one is when a full circle of 13 is used.

[yoniy0]

that was by a full 13 and from what we've been told, it doesn't matter how powerful one is when a full circle of 13 is used.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but 13 isn't some magic number. It's just that 13 of the weakest AS can easily Shield even Rand. If he were holding Callandor, that's still a game-changer.

[Hagazussa]

We do not know if 13 is some magic number that the number itself will make a circle stronger, however it do not matter, the point is that it is not possible in the Wheel of Time setting, at least it is not known to be possible, to be so strong that 13 female channelers linked can not shield you angreals or no. I would fall on the side of assuming that a angreal do not matter once a channeler is shielded, it increases the amount of the One Power that channeler can safely wield, and when shielded they wield nothing, it do not make them stronger it makes them able to hold more safely. It is like with a power armor in various forms of science fiction, it will not make your body stronger, but it will let you lift more than humanly possible, however if you are given a drug that paralyzes you that armor will not help you fight that, or at least that is how I see it but I might be wrong.

 

By the way sort of related, can a character use a well if they are shielded? And if they can use a well while shielded can they also use a well if severed? Or do they need an active connection to the Source to use a well?

[Jason Williams]

Do the Tuatha'an look like Aiel? If so, why wasn't the connection between them more obvious? And if not, why not?

[Finnssss22]

that was by a full 13 and from what we've been told, it doesn't matter how powerful one is when a full circle of 13 is used.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but 13 isn't some magic number. It's just that 13 of the weakest AS can easily Shield even Rand. If he were holding Callandor, that's still a game-changer.

 

I don't know if that makes a difference. I think a full circle of 13 can shield any man, whether he is using an angreal or a sa'angreal or not. The Red's in LoC were able to shield him despite him having the Fat Man angreal. It may have not have been the strongest angreal around but it still made him many times stronger.

 

That's just my opinion though and we actually have no evidence to support or disprove each other here.

[yoniy0]

I would fall on the side of assuming that a angreal do not matter once a channeler is shielded

I agree. It wouldn't matter unless he's been drawing on it.

 

it is not possible in the Wheel of Time setting, at least it is not known to be possible, to be so strong that 13 female channelers linked can not shield you angreals or no.

But this is where we differ. Rand has taken to holding more of the Power than he safely could otherwise exactly because that would thwart someone attempting to Shield him. So using Callandor would most likely stop even a circle of 13, simply because it makes him stronger than any such circle.

 

By the way sort of related, can a character use a well if they are shielded? And if they can use a well while shielded can they also use a well if severed? Or do they need an active connection to the Source to use a well?

A Well? Maybe, but I don't think so. Certainly not if one was Severed.

EDIT3: RJ confirmed that one could.

Question

Can someone channel from a Well while they are shielded?

Robert Jordan

Yes, they could. If they had the Well.

 

Do the Tuatha'an look like Aiel? If so, why wasn't the connection between them more obvious? And if not, why not?

They don't. Too much assimilation.

 

EDIT:

The Red's in LoC were able to shield him despite him having the Fat Man angreal.

He wasn't holding saidin. That makes all the difference.

 

EDIT2:

Here it is:

Nynaeve glanced at the figurine at his side. The globe at the top glowed faintly. "Rand...."

"I'm only holding a little extra, as a precaution." The more of the One Power a person held, the more difficult it was to shield them. If the damane tried to capture him, they would be shocked by his resilience. He might be able to resist a full circle.

And that's with just a little extra.

Edited November 26, 2012 by yoniy0

[Finnssss22]

The Red's in LoC were able to shield him despite him having the Fat Man angreal.

He wasn't holding saidin. That makes all the difference.

 

Rand is guessing about resisting a full circle, it's not definitive by any stretch and going by various LTT ramblings previously, 13 women is something to be feared no matter what.

And if a man, no matter how powerfull he is, can be shielded by even 13 of the weakest women. It seems to imply that a man's strength in the power, amplified or not, does not matter.

 

Like I said, we can go back and forth on this all day and neither of us can prove or disprove the other.

There's simply just not any hard evidence one way or the other.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Finnssss

[yoniy0]

And if a man, no matter how powerfull he is, can be shielded by even 13 of the weakest women. It seems to imply that a man's strength in the power, amplified or not, does not matter.

 

Like I said, we can go back and forth on this all day and neither of us can prove or disprove the other.

There's simply just not any hard evidence one way or the other.

I disagree; there is evidence. For one, we know that you have to be considerably stronger than someone in order to Shield them, while they're embracing the Source. For another, a circle of 13 AS is considerably stronger than any man is unaided, therefore it can overwhelm them. Nothing inconsistent about that, and no need to suggest any other mechanism that kicks-in at 13 (so I'm pulling the Occam card, I guess).

 

Also, Rand makes a point of mentioning that he's only holding a little more because he expects trouble from damane, who cannot Link. He postulated that he might also be strong enough like that to resist a full circle, but that doesn't concern him at the time. It's more than suggestive that holding more would make that speculation a sure thing, otherwise the possibility wouldn't exist to begin with.

 

Finally, it's not true that 13 of the weakest female channelers can overwhelm any man. I said 13 AS, just as Asmodean did:

Thirteen women who can barely channel could overpower most men, linked. The thirteen weakest women in the Tower could overpower you or any man, and barely breathe hard.

Which further proves my point (i.e., if 13 Morgases can't take Rand without an angreal, then there's nothing magical about the number at all).

[BFG]

Thanks Yoniy0 - that's something I've been trying to remember is whether it was 13 channelers or 13 AS, I think I may now have to side with Mr Ares(? can't remember who I was debating with about the difference between strength levels)