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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Xar

Verin is:

This is it! Choose your side! Verin is:  

125 members have voted

  1. 1. This is it! Choose your side! Verin is:

    • Black Ajah
      9
    • A direct servant of the Creator
      11
    • Secret "purple" Ajah
      10
    • Just Verin (Brown Ajah)
      70
    • Unknown (I'm not quite sure yet)
      12
    • My mother
      6
    • Something else and stop this Verin madness!!!!
      7


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Why not have the option be, Just Verin of the Brown Ajah?

 

"Just Verin" isn't very limited really.  I mean, if Verin IS Black Ajah, then she's still "Just Verin".

 

:P

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Well it's been a while since i posted at all but i could'nt resist the temptation. I think some people (including myself) were pretty surprised haha.

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I like Verin.

She is the only black ajah on the good side.

Just wonder what happened after she died?

Since she serve the dark one?

Hopefully the creator redeem her.

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Well she  seemed to think she couldn't be redeemed, my guess is she did  some pretty bad stuff. I would suspect every BA has been forced to commit at least one murder.  When someone  dies who served the DO it just  seems its easier for him to  find and torment the soul.  Also she didn't join the BA out of goodness, it  does mention in the companion she joined the BA to save her  hide after she was caught nearly discovering who some  BA members   were.  The companion doesn't shed  light on what  she  did as BA (thought I  suspect she tricked Alanna to go north into a trap and the companion does state she manipulated  Alanna to bond Rand). 

Edited by Sabio

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Well she  seemed to think she couldn't be redeemed, my guess is she did  some pretty bad stuff. I would suspect every BA has been forced to commit at least one murder.  When someone  dies who served the DO it just  seems its easier for him to  find and torment the soul.  Also she didn't join the BA out of goodness, it  does mention in the companion she joined the BA to save her  hide after she was caught nearly discovering who some  BA members   were.  The companion doesn't shed  light on what  she  did as BA (thought I  suspect she tricked Alanna to go north into a trap and the companion does state she manipulated  Alanna to bond Rand). 

Verin did it to save herself during her investigating the BA, as well as to be a brown and continued investigating.  She managed to make a list of many sisters who were BA, and that was no easy task since the hearts were so tightly knit and secret, with each of the three women of a heart only knowing one other person outside the heart.  She makes up for it in my book.  She places compulsion on Elza, and Elza ends up killing one of the forsaken during the cleansing.  Yes, Elza helps hurt Rand later, but Verin put many things into motion that were needed for prophesy.  She always turned up where she was needed and for the most part was a good person.  To me, she bid her time, did some bad things to prove she was BA to the rest of the BA who had to be gnashing their teeth for all the good she was doing, but then was instrumental in shutting them down.

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I agree, one of the reasons i like Verin so much is she is a complicated character.  I think the biggest mistake many make with her is they assume she joined to be a spy, when it was more of she joined so she  wouldn't be killed and then tried to make the most of a bad situation.

 

"Joined the BA in 929 NE under duress, when she was caught studying rumors and tales and got very close to discovering who some of the members were".  "Though she joined to save her own hide , she gathered as much information on the BA as she could". She hoped would balance some of the atrocities she had committed on orders from the BA."

 

During the book you can see some good and bad she  did.  Does make you wonder one thing though, why when she  was nearing  death did  she not write something  to Rand  or  have Egwene warn him of the BA in his group.  Verin knew of  at least 2 Elza and Nalaene.  Yet no one ever tried to warn him.

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She did "bad stuff" in the service of the Light.  The Creator redeemed her.

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There is no way to say, by Verin's own admission "I think that wouldn't be so easily earned.  Light knows I've done enough to require a very special kind of redemption".  So who knows if the creator would do anything or if this falls under free will.  So one must pay the price for their actions.  The creator seems very hands off.

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Verin did write to Rand. He received the letter when he faced Egwene in the White Tower after his epiphany. We just do not know what was in it. We know Matt's letter when we saw her with him. She will be redeemed. If Noal can, then so can she.

Edited by wotfan4472

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One big difference is Noal was tricked by Ishy then compulsed  by Grendael.  Verin had a choice.

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Too bad Egwene's brain cells froze when Verin was alive (even if unconscious). She should have shouted for the Red sister at the door to heal Verin, who had a few minutes where her thread of life was there. 

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- I'd say Verin was one of the more excellent characters of the series.  You can look back and see the foreshadowing but it wasn't telegraphed like many of the other characters.

- I do think it was sad she couldn't be saved but imagine the shock Egwene had with the reveal.

- I'd imagine there's no question about her being redeemed.

- The creator most certainly doesn't have a "stand back and watch" attitude, he set in motion and even created the pattern and wheel to make sure that humanity would always have a chance, a way to be saved, granted through their own actions and decisions. Verin is a great example of that, yeah she made her decision to save her own skin but she used that decision to save the world and who created her thread to come in and out and knew her inner character?  The creator.

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That's a stand back an see attitude.  If Rand failed, the Creator wasn't going to come running to the rescue.  As we saw the creator wouldn't take a direct hand in things.  It was all about free will. You make your decisions for good or bad.  The more the creator gets involved the less free will would matter.  The creator basically left it up to humanity to decide their own fate and wasn't going to interfere. 

 

I hope Verin was redeemed, but we can only guess as to what her fate was.  There are a a lot of questions never answered about redemption and what it would take.  Intgar sacrificed himself but would that be enough?  Verin spied and took notes, but we have nothing to go on about what "evils" she did.  We don't even know if redemption is possible.   Once you have given yourself to the DO, it may be he will always be able to torment you until your rebirth.  But I would like to think she was redeemed, but we really don't have much about the afterlife to go on.

Edited by Sabio

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Now that the DO is sealed, does he still have the power to torment souls? Maybe winning the Last Battle was what it took to save her.

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@rose,

you have raised an interesting point,before rand entered the pit of doom he told moiraine

that the dark one was outside the pattern,influencing(through the bore)the wheel of time

by force,knowing how the battle went between the two of them and its outcome,we can

safely assume that when rand sealed the bore he destroyed the dark one's ability to coerce,

torment or manipulate anyone.

the most poignant moment(for me) in a memory of light was the last conversation between

rand and his former girlfriend,and just before rand terminated their meeting he told her:

"keep your head down during the storm to come.if i win this fight,you will no longer have reason

to fear for your soul.there will be no one left to torment you."

Edited by jack of shadows

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@rose,

the most poignant moment(for me) in a memory of light was the last conversation between

rand and his former girlfriend,and just before rand terminated their meeting he told her:

"keep your head down during the storm to come.if i win this fight,you will no long have reason

to fear for your soul.there will be no one left to torment you."

 

 

I'm not so sure. Rand had intended to kill the Dark One when he told her that.

 

Otherwise....I hope that you and Rose are correct.

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Maurice is right.  When Rand told Lanfear that he still intended to try and kill the DO.  So he assumed the DO would be gone forever.   

 

I wondered that to, just because humanity will forget the DO exists doesn't mean souls are safe.  We  saw the closer he was to being freed the stronger he was to be bale to coerce and tempt souls.  So my guess is with the seal being strong his ability to tempt souls is virtually gone.  He would be at his weakest now.  Those like the forsaken, DF's, BA etc who allowed themselves to be connected to him, he still might have access to torment them.  But my opinion is since his connection to the world is gone, all souls are probably safe.

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Rand sealed the DO away from the Pattern. So, I'm thinking that the DO cannot touch souls as strongly now. But I don't know how that works with Rand's vision where killing the DO ruined humankind. Rand's eventual actions preserved humans' ability to make a choice between good and evil, if I remember correctly.

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Verin is the coolest AS alive.

 

I always see her in the closing chapter in the unwritten last book, for me, she's telling something to Rand = that's our hook.

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Verin Sedai of the Brown Ajah is the biggest Unsung Heroine of the series. She spent half her life infiltrating the Black Ajah, only to commit suicide in order to be able to pass along everything she learned to Egwene. A true Servant of All...

Edited by Kesiera_Sedai

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