WoT Season 2 - I WATCHED ALL THE EPISODES TOPIC

[Scarloc99]

59 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

I'm not disputing that she's a baddie in the show; my point is that I'm not sure it's obvious to non-readers/unspoiled viewers that she's a baddie based just on her actions in this episode.

I mean the 8 non book readers I have spoken to since seeing it now all said something like “I knew she was a darkfriend” or equivalent. The Ishy Min scene kind of hammered it home harder than her just turning on the girls. 
 

Also she confirmed her “son” was 70 or 80 years old so she is in her 90’s or hundreads depending on her age when she had him. 

[Samt]

5 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Also she confirmed her “son” was 70 or 80 years old so she is in her 90’s or hundreads depending on her age when she had him. 

An aside:  How does Liandrin not know exactly how old her son is?  Doesn't that seem sort of weird?

[Scarloc99]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:53 PM, Samt said:

An aside:  How does Liandrin not know exactly how old her son is?  Doesn't that seem sort of weird?

I flagged it at the moment she said it, I am not sure if it is meant to signify that to an Aes Sedai the years merge altogether, it is a standard thing in fantasy, Elves for instance will track time in decades and almost forget how long the short time of a human has past by. But I am still not convinced it is actually her son, but is all part of the ruse and so little lines like this are there to go back to and say ahhhhh that gave a little thing away (I have already looked for those foreshadowing moments with other characters we know are darkfriends). 

 

 

On 9/10/2023 at 4:38 PM, Elendir said:

 

They are mostly minor scenes, like when Mat and Perrin find Rand is dragon and Perrin defuse it by jokes.

When Lan made Rand stand before aes sedai proudly.

Or when Perrin speak with wolves about Rand and his night heist.

How Rand made "Selene" pout, because he change direction in last second despite compulsion.

 

Character building (Rand and Perrin), which earn them respect of shienars and build their characters for finale of book.

In the show Perrin thinks Rand is dead and Mat has no idea about any of it so there is still time for those moments later. 

We know from the trailer that Rand is yet to stand before the Amirilyan Seat (You are the water that turns the wheel from the trailer), so there is still time for that. 

Not sure what moment your talking about, but again the talking with wolves is being done differently, I imagine more to allow it to be understood better by the audience. 

Perrin I imagine will rescue the Shienars and earn their respect that way. 

I think the Rand Selene relationship is going to be very different, Rand has told Lanfer he loves her (something he never does in the book) but that will allow them to really play on the crazy ex girlfriemd vibes even more, the main issue with TV is that it is hard to be as subtle as you can with the written word, things can get easily lost in translation, so something subtle like a Pout in the written word can be focused on because the writer makes the decision that it is the thing the reader is focused on and as a reader we are used to understanding that the stuff written down is the important stuff from the story, there is lots of other stuff going on in this living world but none of it is important. On the screen there has to be other stuff all happening at the same time and the viewer maybe has 3 seconds to take in that moment or scene, which is why sometimes stuff has to be made obvious and forced down the viewers throat so that they understand the importance of this moment. 

[Pandemonium]

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I don’t know how much to read into this as part of this is dependent on how much info the streamers make available. Netflix and Disney are becoming much more transparent because they are introducing free ad powered versions of there services, and advertisers need to know how many people there ads will be seen by meaning they have to publish accurate figures. 

 

Well during season 1 there was a lot of hype articles from Amazon after the reason saying WOT was the #1 most viewed debut show, ect.  If we don't see those articles soon then we know Amazon is not happy with the results.  Also they usually hype the mid season and we haven't gotten a peep.  Amazon must be saving a lot of marketing dollars here, but hopefully they aren't crushing their show in the process.  

[Chivalry]

6 hours ago, Samt said:

An aside:  How does Liandrin not know exactly how old her son is?  Doesn't that seem sort of weird?

Tell me you're a bad parent without actually...

 

[DigificWriter]

Liandrin doesn't say anything about how old her son is; she's talking about how long it's been since she brought him to the city and is speaking, as one often does, in generalized terms (80-90 years).

Edited September 11, 2023 by DigificWriter

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I’m so baffled by the thought that liandrin ever engaged in the necessary act to result in procreation 

 

I acknowledge that I’m on my own island here but I’m ok with the forsaken being imprisoned at different locations in the show. Admittedly due to my limited imagination of how that could look on screen. Just gradual awakenings in one location might be harder to pull off on screen than each forsaken being somewhat simultaneously awakened in a unique way and location drawing more emphasis to the specific character. I recognize that the majority of fans have envisioned a well thought out way to focus on the awakenings in a superior way, and I’m here for it, just giving voice to my minority of one.

ps…I’m also ok with the efficient visual portrayal of the nature of the forsaken and their immortality. Ok, I’ve said too much. 

 

I’m clearly on board with going along for the ride that the show has been taking us on…but I do have confusion about how the AS know things so currently and how the mail system is so efficient. How did Alanna know moiraine needed them etc

[Scarloc99]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:10 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I’m so baffled by the thought that liandrin ever engaged in the necessary act to result in procreation 

The suggestion is that if indeed this is her son that we will find out is was a result of rape, possibly underage, before she came to the tower which would explain her hatred of men. 

 

On 9/11/2023 at 6:23 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I acknowledge that I’m on my own island here but I’m ok with the forsaken being imprisoned at different locations in the show. Admittedly due to my limited imagination of how that could look on screen. Just gradual awakenings in one location might be harder to pull off on screen than each forsaken being somewhat simultaneously awakened in a unique way and location drawing more emphasis to the specific character. I recognize that the majority of fans have envisioned a well thought out way to focus on the awakenings in a superior way, and I’m here for it, just giving voice to my minority of one.

ps…I’m also ok with the efficient visual portrayal of the nature of the forsaken and their immortality. Ok, I’ve said too much. 

I mean we never even remotely saw the awakenings in the books so who is to say this is not how it happened in RJ's head as well. 

 

On 9/11/2023 at 6:41 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I’m clearly on board with going along for the ride that the show has been taking us on…but I do have confusion about how the AS know things so currently and how the mail system is so efficient. How did Alanna know moiraine needed them etc

I think there is a lot of time compression going on here, so what we see and think is taking place over a few days is actually weeks of time. 

But also, it's tar Valon, those really well trained owls are a holdover from before the age of legends 😉 

[Elder_Haman]

On 9/9/2023 at 6:41 PM, ForsakenPotato said:

TV-Nyneave only gets mad about reasonable things like people trying to kill her and her loved ones and is otherwise extremely gentle and reasonable. Where's the fun in that?

I'm not sure we've seen the end of this yet. Nyneave is now feeling extra vulnerable after her experience in the arches. She can't channel around the block yet. I think she might start to get angrier. In fact, I think Nyn's anger may get a little darker than in the books.

[nsmallw]

In one of the episodes Alanna says Nynaeve is 10 times more powerful, which makes me wonder does that mean she outpowers Rand, also in ep 4 Logain says Rand's power is equal to what his own was pre-stilling. 

 

Is all this a conscious effort to reduce Rand's overall power, so he can be less "super-sayan" than in the books where until the end he's pretty much stronger than any one individual channeler ?

[SinisterDeath]

7 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

In one of the episodes Alanna says Nynaeve is 10 times more powerful, which makes me wonder does that mean she outpowers Rand, also in ep 4 Logain says Rand's power is equal to what his own was pre-stilling. 

 

Is all this a conscious effort to reduce Rand's overall power, so he can be less "super-sayan" than in the books where until the end he's pretty much stronger than any one individual channeler ?

Logain was ++2 to Rand's ++1, Saying Rand was his Equal isn't that much of a stretch when even to this day we have no idea what the difference in terms of power is between ++2 and ++1 is. That's not even getting into Logain's madness and him still believing he's the dragon. His ego wouldn't let him admit that Rand's just a wee bit more powerful then Him.

 

As for Egwene/Nynaeve. Nynaeve being 10x stronger than Egwene doesn't mean she's stronger than Rand. 
The way the show magic works vs book magic, I don't know if we know if they know a channelers potential or just what they are capable of at this point in time. 

If they can only sense what they are capable of right now. Nynaeve is easily 10x more powerful then Egwene right now.

Nynaeve was easily a thousand times more powerful than Egwene in Season 1, and that gap can easily close as Egwene trains.

 

[Samt]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Logain was ++2 to Rand's ++1, Saying Rand was his Equal isn't that much of a stretch when even to this day we have no idea what the difference in terms of power is between ++2 and ++1 is. That's not even getting into Logain's madness and him still believing he's the dragon. His ego wouldn't let him admit that Rand's just a wee bit more powerful then Him.

 

As for Egwene/Nynaeve. Nynaeve being 10x stronger than Egwene doesn't mean she's stronger than Rand. 
The way the show magic works vs book magic, I don't know if we know if they know a channelers potential or just what they are capable of at this point in time. 

If they can only sense what they are capable of right now. Nynaeve is easily 10x more powerful then Egwene right now.

Nynaeve was easily a thousand times more powerful than Egwene in Season 1, and that gap can easily close as Egwene trains.

 

Frankly, despite the existence of these tables and scales, the actual power levels and what they mean are still quite fuzzy in the books.  We don't, for instance, know the type of scale (linear, logarithmic, exponential, something else).  Or how does it work with linking and Terangreal (does a terangreal just have a set amount of power that adds to the channeler's own power, or does it provide some type of multiplier)?  How many 3s have to link to beat a 1, for instance?  

 

We are also told that the strongest male channelers are significantly more powerful than the strongest female channelers and the table supports this.  But then we also get some hand-wavy thing that women can match men in combat because of "dexterity."  But we don't really ever get an exact explanation of what "dexterity" means.  It isn't really just the number of weaves the channeler can maintain since that is supposed to just be linked to raw power.  

 

And then, as was mentioned, there is the additional vagueness that comes from asking if we are just talking about present power or is potential included.  At least in the books, women are able to see a woman's full potential regardless of her present power.  Men can't see if other men can channel at all without a complicated procedure and even then can't say anything in particular about ultimate potential.  

 

This whole thing gets even murkier when we start talking about talents and how they affect all of this.  

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, Samt said:

Frankly, despite the existence of these tables and scales, the actual power levels and what they mean are still quite fuzzy in the books.  We don't, for instance, know the type of scale (linear, logarithmic, exponential, something else).  Or how does it work with linking and Terangreal (does a terangreal just have a set amount of power that adds to the channeler's own power, or does it provide some type of multiplier)?  How many 3s have to link to beat a 1, for instance?  

100% agreed. I really wish someone could go to the citadel and see if there's any notes one how the power actually scales, not just aging! lol.

 

[Vartija]

In the books, I remember Rand making note of how Logain (or was it Taim?) could draw almost as much power as Rand could which makes me doubt the "10 times more powerful" line in the show. It wouldn't make sense that Nynaeve would be 10 times stronger than another poweful female channeller like Egwene when the second strongest male channeller was so close to Rand. Unless they are completely changing the strength levels.

 

I've always assumed the power differences at the top are quite small. 

[Scarloc99]

I always feel that RJ wrote himself into a bit of a culdesac with the power comparisons in the WOT, a culdesac he was never able to write himself out of. We know he amended the scale multiple times as he created more and more channeling characters in the story. I think then publishing it made the situation worse because he had to stick to what was initially a pretty hand wavey system. 

[king of nowhere]

even in the books there are places where characters throw around numbers wildly. i remember nynaeve remarking on the circle healing mat that it was twice as powerful as her, despite being made by a half dozen of the most powerful sisters available with vora's sa'angreal.

so no, don't put much faith in characters throwing numbers.

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

even in the books there are places where characters throw around numbers wildly. i remember nynaeve remarking on the circle healing mat that it was twice as powerful as her, despite being made by a half dozen of the most powerful sisters available with vora's sa'angreal.

so no, don't put much faith in characters throwing numbers.

I'm definitely partial to the idea that the characters are bad at math.

[Storeebooq]

50 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm definitely partial to the idea that the characters are bad at math.

bad at math, and that ol' unreliable narrator trope that RJ made ample use of. 

In Nyn's defense, she knew almost nothing about the Source then, so she could have been sorely mistaken. 

 

Then again, a circle seemed to limit how much could be drawn from the Sa'Angreal, going by the experience Eggy had during the Tower's battle vs the Seanchan (with all those linked with her + her forkroot weakness, she was just at her own max power) and her inner dialogue during the last battle (and BS's very convenient reveal on it's mechanics that had NEVER been mentioned ever in the previous books..*cough*). 

 

 

[Samt]

54 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I'm definitely partial to the idea that the characters are bad at math.

The white ajah makes so much more sense when you go with this assumption.  It's really just people that think counting is important.  

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Samt said:

The white ajah makes so much more sense when you go with this assumption.  It's really just people that think counting is important.  

Have you seen their system of measurement, let alone their currency systems?!?!

[ForsakenPotato]

My thoughts on Liandrin were less that she's doing wildly different things than in the books, and more like...the attitude in which she does them? The vibes are so obviously very bad! If you're trying to be sneaky maybe be a little more subtle with the crazy eyes and extreme temper and general provocations.

 

I feel like Nyneave, Min, and Mat, who are among the most distrustful of Aes Sedai generally, would be a little tougher to manipulate than they have been. Although to be fair, Mat and Nyneave are still country bumpkins as previously pointed out. And Min probably already knows she's bad news but just doesn't realize how bad.

[Ralph]

9 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

My thoughts on Liandrin were less that she's doing wildly different things than in the books, and more like...the attitude in which she does them? The vibes are so obviously very bad! If you're trying to be sneaky maybe be a little more subtle with the crazy eyes and extreme temper and general provocations.

 

I feel like Nyneave, Min, and Mat, who are among the most distrustful of Aes Sedai generally, would be a little tougher to manipulate than they have been. Although to be fair, Mat and Nyneave are still country bumpkins as previously pointed out. And Min probably already knows she's bad news but just doesn't realize how bad.

I think Min thinks all AS are bad news 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

My thoughts on Liandrin were less that she's doing wildly different things than in the books, and more like...the attitude in which she does them? The vibes are so obviously very bad! If you're trying to be sneaky maybe be a little more subtle with the crazy eyes and extreme temper and general provocations.

 

I feel like Nyneave, Min, and Mat, who are among the most distrustful of Aes Sedai generally, would be a little tougher to manipulate than they have been. Although to be fair, Mat and Nyneave are still country bumpkins as previously pointed out. And Min probably already knows she's bad news but just doesn't realize how bad.

Remember an Aes Sedai can't lie, as far as many are aware, so if an Aes Sedai tells you a fact to your face then you believe it. That is such a powerful tool. 

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

A scene I wondered about was when Alanna tells lan, regarding moiraine, something along the lines of he didn’t know her “before” and that something “happened to her” about 20 years earlier that changed her. Side note, he asks if she was happy before and Alanna says she doesn’t know if moiraine was ever happy. Anyway, I can only think of one event that happened 20 years ago that I assumed lan knew about. Was there something else that happened at the same time that lan had no awareness of or was my assumption that lan was more informed of moiraines motives and their basis than I thought?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Lightfriendsocialmistress

[Guire]

36 minutes ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

A scene I wondered about was when Alanna tells lan, regarding moiraine, something along the lines of he didn’t know her “before” and that something “happened to her” about 20 years earlier that changed her. Side note, he asks if she was happy before and Alanna says she doesn’t know if moiraine was ever happy. Anyway, I can only think of one event that happened 20 years ago that I assumed lan knew about. Was there something else that happened at the same time that lan had no awareness of or was my assumption that lan was more informed of moiraines motives and their basis than I thought?

I am wondering if this is just tv writer mystery box stuff.  or show Mo and Siuan were in a happy public relationship.  they witnessed the dragon foretelling, then manufactured a huge public betrayel/break up to cover their mission. So to Alanna this could be a foundational change in Moraines life.  Why she has stayed away from tower and might challenge Siuan's rule.  but to Lan who knows truth there is something else Alanna is referencing or he has to play along to keep up secret.