WoT Season 2 Episode 3: What Might Be

[SinisterDeath]

This is the topic for WoT Season 2 Episode 3: What Might Be

 

Director: Sanaa Hamri

Writers: John McCutcheon / Rafe Judkins

 

This topic is for discussing Episode 3 only. You should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up To Episode 3, and full book spoilers on this topic.

[VooDooNut]

ooooooooooo man. Best episode of the 3, I think. That moment when Nynaeve was leaving the White Tower, I was like, "Wait a minute. This is so crazy. Where could she possibly be headed?? ... ... ... What if she's still inside the arches!?" and then "The way back will come but once..." The timing was SO. GOOD.

[Kaleb]

1 hour ago, VooDooNut said:

ooooooooooo man. Best episode of the 3, I think. That moment when Nynaeve was leaving the White Tower, I was like, "Wait a minute. This is so crazy. Where could she possibly be headed?? ... ... ... What if she's still inside the arches!?" and then "The way back will come but once..." The timing was SO. GOOD.

Loved it, so much like the way that test went in the book, but exaggerated enough to make me start to question it. Like, she is coming back, right?

[A Memory Of Why]

Yep, loved Nyns test. End to end was amazing, I don't even care she broke the rules and did the impossible to get out, it feels more believable and in line with the books as she does something similar for her AS test.

 

I know it's disturbing but I'm liking Selene and Rands relationship, she seems happy 😉

 

Their last scenes where she pins him and says "walk away from me again and I'll kill you", I pointed at the screen and said "there she is!" Litterally lol'd a couple seconds later when she wanted him to keep the Dragon coat on.

 

That's totally her messing with his dreams right? Than he wakes up and burns the house down..

 

You know boys on occasion wake up with a mess but.. Dragon problems, am my right 🤭

Edited September 1, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[Pandemonium]

This episode was a 9.5 for me.  Probably the best episode for yet in the show.  Nynaeve was definitely the star.  

 

Rand and Selene's party was fun, and I loved seeing him burn the letter. I wouldn't have minded seeing a little more debauchery at that party, kid of like a Roman party.  The Ghealdean bottle of red was a very apt metaphor for male channeling so I really liked that addition.  Seeing Rand lose control of the flames and lose himself to lust with Selene didn't feel out of character.  Rand is always going to test the limits of his power along with his conscious before he find his way back to the light.

 

Matt's scenes are still pretty meh, but that might be the only main character falling a little flat so far.  I'm kind of bummed if he never gets his scene with Gawyn and Galad.  maybe season 3

[Seaine's eyebrows]

"It's me, hi, I'm the Dragon it's me."

 

Does anyone else hate them calling Falme "falm"? I've always pronounced it "fal-may".

 

Also Donal is really rocking it as Mat I must say.

 

And Elayne is annoying/sweet, but she always was, let's be honest.

 

And I was shouting at the TV when Nynaeve was packing to leave the Tower! Where could she possibly go from there, to join the Kin?? Curse you Rafe! But then it was just part of the Three Arches, thank the Light.

 

Can't wait for next week! Think I'll have to re-watch in the meantime though 🤭

 

Edit: and I forgot Uno, what the bloody hell 😭

Edited September 1, 2023 by Seaine's eyebrows

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Seaine's eyebrows said:

And Elayne is annoying/sweet, but she always was, let's be honest.

She's nailing it.

This version of Elayne, making her own Hooch? Totally something I could see Elayne do.
I look forward to drunk Elayne.

[king of nowhere]

that accepted test was brutal.

and it conveied the perfect feeling of the one in the books. i'd say it surpasses its book equivalent. in the books we only see her with lan for a few lines. here we actually see them getting a life together.

it's great that she also finds her motivation to leave. while she hates the tower, deep down she knows she must use her power to protect people from the shadow.

also, trying to carry back her daughter. earlier she said that the tower wants her to abandon all the people she loves, and she won't do it. and through all the books, she becomes an aes sedai but she does not abandon the people. just like in her last weave in the aes sedai test later in the books

Spoiler

she carries lan with her

so here she's bringing her baby back. yes, she's not real, but it's the point that matters.

 

also regarding revelations that those who didn't read the books will probably get in a few weeks, BIG SPOILER HERE if you didn't read the books,

Spoiler

liandrin is clearly trying to get nynaeve killed as per black ajah orders. and it's an absolutely fantastic way to go about it. she almost succeeded, with absolutely zero suspicion involved

 

so sad for uno, he was a great character. good way to go, though. we could always have used more uno.

 

elayne is perfect. I was unsure at first. but when she reasoned egwene out of doing something stupid, she got me. I always loved elayne because she was more rational. in a saga full of people doing dumb stuff out of pride or mule-headedness, elayne was one of the few who could solve things by talking.

 

i'm definitely liking it a lot more than S1

 

[DreadLord31]

Yeah, you know, on my first watch through last night - I was jiving with the show. I thought, you know what, "This is pretty good T.V, and it feels like WoT."

 

Now as I think about it more, there's definitely stuff I could nit-pick and take issue with ... but I think we're headed in the right direction. There was better character development. There wasn't BAD CGI. I can see where we're headed, even if I don't completely love how we're getting there. I would say, though, the worst scene of this season so far, was how small (how few extras and stuff they had) and how awkward (the accents, I know what they're trying to do, but it came off wonky) the Seanchan 'all must bow and swear the oath' scene was. 

 

My favorite part of this season so far, though, is Rand/Selene at the high-society Cairhein party. Rand in his red-coat. Throwing away the invitation; Game of Houses. Having wo-mansplained, to him that the Hunt for the Horn is a ploy to reduce the poor population & then Rand's reaction to it. "This is the most political city in the world." It is brilliantly setting up how Rand is going to interact in the future...

Spoiler

like having Tairen nobles pay out of their own deep pockets or be hanged; refusing to play people's political games - but, simple-to-the-point, 'that's wrong' and we're doing it my way or else. 

 

I actually, am, mostly, kind of, almost, on board with really letting Liandrin shine and get quite a bit of screen time. Makes her a lot more intriguing. Interesting choice to have her have a sick son? She said son, right? I'm just guessing here, but I bet you we'll get as part of her backstory that

Spoiler

she was raped and had a child from that - I know that's an intense prediction - but don't you think that's what they're setting up? 

 

Loved her little intimidation/speech to Egwene and Egwene's response "You have no idea what I'm capable of." 

 

I really am loving all the new characters we're getting and - I'm not 'feeling' Elyas yet - but he hasn't done much yet. But Domon had the right vibes. Elayne is perfect. Ceara is my new head-cannon Elayne. Beautiful. Logical. A little naive and arrogant, but sweet. Making a friend for the first time 🥰

I re-winded and listened to her line at least three times, "They say that some of the greatest pairings in the world were formed between novices in adjacent rooms. Cadsuane Melaidhrin and Elena Ketab met just like this. Don't you wonder what the future might hold for us?" 🔥

[Storeebooq]

The Nyneave test hit me HARD! The last scene of her grabbing her child and running through the arches was heart wrenching and much more of an emotional impact than the book's version of the test to me. oof! I felt like I was in part holding my breath through the entire episode. 

 

I'm okay with the slow build for Mat and Perrin, because I think their character development needs to be more careful. It's less obvious what they need to become, since they aren't "The Dragon" and have a clear path laid out for them. 

 

At first I was surprised at how involved Liandrin is in many of the plots, and her ample scenes. I'm very much warming up to it now though, especially after the scene with her son(?). I think they are doing well in giving us well fleshed out "bad guys" that have more depth to them than RJ did (bless his heart). I'm into it, and I'm mad that I like her when I felt like I should be hating her. 

 

I'm not, and will not EVER be okay with what happened to Uno. Period. But I will get over it. Maybe I'm just mad we didn't have a single scene of Nyn glaring at his cursewords. Then again, this TV show Nyn seems less prudish and stuckup than our book Nyn did =]

 

Elayne is perfect. Exactly how I hoped she would be portrayed. So naively royal and sincere. Her scene of taking the punishment for one of the workers was golden.

 

I'm a little on edge over Moraine and Lan's relationship...I was not expecting her to be so harshly pushing him away at the end. I really felt for Lan. I'm hoping this gets resolved and they aren't permanently separated. 

[Samt]

40 minutes ago, Storeebooq said:

than RJ did (bless his heart). 

Do you really dislike him that much?  

[Storeebooq]

1 hour ago, Samt said:

Do you really dislike him that much?  

Oh no, sorry if it came across like that! lol I have high regard for RJ, though also keeping it real and like any writer, their work can get out-dated over time as we generally grow and change culturally. I have critiques of his work like I may any, but he's one of my all time favorite authors =]

[A Memory Of Why]

So at the end of Nyns test we see...

 

One eyed Matt

 

Perring fighting with a hammer and killed by an axe

 

And Lan "sheathing the sword"

 

🥳

Edited September 1, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[Sabio]

I like Nyn's test, it really showed the sacrifices Aes Sedai make. My issue is in a series so short of time, so much of the episode focused on her test seemed liked a lot.   The series so far does seem very Nyn centric.

[Agitel]

I'm going to put this in spoiler tags as it doesn't just say "expect full book spoilers" but says "expect full book spoilers ON THIS TOPIC". Does that mean full books? Or just all books on these plot poonts?

Spoiler

The whole season has been very strong TV so far, and I'm on board with most of the changes. I can see Donal Finn making a good Mat. Some of the changes to his character motivations, him never leaving people behind even when he says he will to now being a coward who runs away, were forced by Harris leaving the show last season. Hard to know if they'd have done differently if Harris had stayed, but his leaving the show forced their hand on Mat running away. However, it does allow for a rather obvious arc of him growing into the character we love. And... to be honest, Mat doesn't really fully develop into a fan favorite in the books until TFoH anyway, so this gives him something.

 

It's a shame Uno's gone, but I think that's part of the reality of television. Not that this particular change was absolutely forced, but given actor dynamics and commitments and how many secondary actors you can work with... It makes sense.

 

I was 80/20 confident on the Nynaeve fake out after a brief flabbergasted moment. I think the only thing that irks me is how long she was gone for in the real world. I almost feel like they showed me something more extreme so I'd be okay with something less extreme! I kid. And really it's just my book-lore that is having an issue with it. Just in terms of pure television I think this season's been pretty strong. I loved her testing sequence except for that one niggling detail.

 

I wonder if we'll just skip Callandor this season. I'm not sure how they can work it in at this point, unless it's some Seanchan relic now. I don't see much of TDR yet. He could still really kill Ishamael this season.

 

Oh, during the final sequence with Nynaeve, anyone notice Mat had lost an eye, Perrin was killed with an axe, and Lan had a sword sheathed inside him? Probably, I haven't read y'alls comments yet.

 

[VooDooNut]

14 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I'm going to put this in spoiler tags as it doesn't just say "expect full book spoilers" but says "expect full book spoilers ON THIS TOPIC". Does that mean full books? Or just all books on these plot poonts?

  Hide contents

The whole season has been very strong TV so far, and I'm on board with most of the changes. I can see Donal Finn making a good Mat. Some of the changes to his character motivations, him never leaving people behind even when he says he will to now being a coward who runs away, were forced by Harris leaving the show last season. Hard to know if they'd have done differently if Harris had stayed, but his leaving the show forced their hand on Mat running away. However, it does allow for a rather obvious arc of him growing into the character we love. And... to be honest, Mat doesn't really fully develop into a fan favorite in the books until TFoH anyway, so this gives him something.

 

It's a shame Uno's gone, but I think that's part of the reality of television. Not that this particular change was absolutely forced, but given actor dynamics and commitments and how many secondary actors you can work with... It makes sense.

 

I was 80/20 confident on the Nynaeve fake out after a brief flabbergasted moment. I think the only thing that irks me is how long she was gone for in the real world. I almost feel like they showed me something more extreme so I'd be okay with something less extreme! I kid. And really it's just my book-lore that is having an issue with it. Just in terms of pure television I think this season's been pretty strong. I loved her testing sequence except for that one niggling detail.

 

I wonder if we'll just skip Callandor this season. I'm not sure how they can work it in at this point, unless it's some Seanchan relic now. I don't see much of TDR yet. He could still really kill Ishamael this season.

 

Oh, during the final sequence with Nynaeve, anyone notice Mat had lost an eye, Perrin was killed with an axe, and Lan had a sword sheathed inside him? Probably, I haven't read y'alls comments yet.

 

You hid this in a spoiler? Why?! Great comments. WAFO. :D

[Agitel]

I referenced some things that occur in later books, and I wasn't quite sure to what extent we can discuss book spoilers. Just book spoilers of what's been adapted so far? Or just full books with no qualifiers? So I used tags to be safe.

 

But thanks!

[DigificWriter]

@Agitel I've said this a couple of times recently in various different threads, but I don't think we can say with 100% certainty that the end of The Flame of Tar Valon and the first bit of The Dark Along the Ways were affected by Barney's decision not to return after the COVID shutdown was lifted, so while there were undoubtedly story changes made, I think there's a distinct possibility that said changes were built on ideas that were actually planned but that would've been resolved differently if Barney hadn't left.

[Agitel]

They did reshoot the scene at the end of S1E6 due to Harris leaving, and the shot of him standing there doing nothing was basically reconstructed from existing footage. I agree that it's entirely possible they'd have done something similar, but Mat was intended to enter the Ways with them.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Agitel

[DigificWriter]

1 minute ago, Agitel said:

They did reshoot the scene at the end of S1E6 due to Harris leaving, and the shot of him standing there doing nothing was basically reconstructed from existing footage. I agree that it's entirely possible they'd have done something similar, but Mat was intended to enter the Ways with them.

 

All of the scenes in the Ways were shot before the COVID shutdown (thanks go to WoTTuber LezbiNerdy for figuring this out), and that fact alone is enough to cast doubt on the certainty of the prevailing point of view that Mat not entering the Ways was a 'patch' to cover for Barney not coming back, at least for me.

[Elder_Haman]

My $0.02 on E3:

 

The Rand/Selene thing is working. She's insidious. And part of Rand recognizes that. The party was great. "Leave me again and I'll kill you" was great. 

 

Alvaro Morte is a treasure. Looks like Asmo and Logain are going to be merged, which is smart I think.

 

Ishy trying the okie-doke with Perrin is also great. 

 

Elayne is very Elayne and the relationship with Egwene feels very authentic.

 

Not sure what Liandrin is up to with Mat and Min. 

 

Nynaeve's journey through the rings was powerful storytelling. They did a great job with it and really seemed to break Nynaeve. I'm wondering where they'll go with her from here.

 

Despite all of the changes, most of the characters feel like their book counterparts. My biggest exceptions are Lan and Mat. Lan is just a completely different character - I enjoy the character and what Henney is doing as an actor, but it's definitely the biggest change. 

 

Mat has yet to come into his own. But they've inverted his personality I think. Whereas book Mat always wanted to let his friends down by running off, he never found himself able to do it. This Mat actually let his friends down and thinks that is his defining feature. Curious to see how they pay this off.

 

Great episode. Best of the series.

 

9.5/10

[Elder_Haman]

3 hours ago, Agitel said:

Oh, during the final sequence with Nynaeve, anyone notice Mat had lost an eye, Perrin was killed with an axe, and Lan had a sword sheathed inside him? Probably, I haven't read y'alls comments yet.

Great catch!

[PhilMegrim]

Welcome to our version of the Red Wedding.  I guarantee now that no character is safe. RIP uno

[DigificWriter]

Choosing to kill off Uno doesn't guarantee that more major characters are in danger of death in the show when they survived in the novels any more than changing the lore regarding reincarnation and the gendering of souls guaranteed that Rand wasn't going to be the Dragon.

[Scarloc99]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:49 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

Yep, loved Nyns test. End to end was amazing, I don't even care she broke the rules and did the impossible to get out, it feels more believable and in line with the books as she does something similar for her AS test.

 

I know it's disturbing but I'm liking Selene and Rands relationship, she seems happy 😉

 

Their last scenes where she pins him and says "walk away from me again and I'll kill you", I pointed at the screen and said "there she is!" Litterally lol'd a couple seconds later when she wanted him to keep the Dragon coat on.

 

That's totally her messing with his dreams right? Than he wakes up and burns the house down..

 

You know boys on occasion wake up with a mess but.. Dragon problems, am my right 🤭

I mean it is similar to the books, she channels and is told she shouldn’t be able to, the door starts to disappear but she makes it return (if I remember that right), so it took all those elements but dialed them up to 11 to make the TV show more compelling, and it worked my wife a non book reader was shouting at the TV and genuinely worried for Nyn during that episode.