tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[Els]

Another perspective RE: Nynaeve - maybe she isn't stronger than Logain, perhaps she is the same level strength but she is extremely skilled with healing so her display of power was highlighting her area of skill. She hasn't really done much else to directly compare her strength against Logain (i.e. both using air weaves to attach or something). Not saying she is but not saying she isn't, just an observation.

 

Also, first time (assuming) ever seeing trollics, survived a traumatic trollic kidnapping, friends were presumed kidnapped by a lady you don't trust and then eventually end up getting attacked by an army of men who want to kill you for no reason other than wrong place at the wrong time. You survive only to have everyone else that has been trying to keep you alive/safe from the second attack get injured and the one person who you are developing a mutual respecting relationship with, have his throat slit and gruesomely bleed out to die. I mean .. that's a pretty traumatic series of events to trigger intense emotion for that super saiyan uncontrollable healing explosion. I don't know about you but I would be rattled. The fact that she hasn't trained or learned to control it makes it reasonable (to me) that she went berserk and cast those healing waves just all over the place in the cave without knowing what she was doing or how. So far Zoe Robins is killing it at playing Nynaeve and it's been a complete 180 from a frustrating character in RJ's depiction in the books to a holy cow she is one of my favourite characters so far in the show. 

[Harad the White]

43 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

50 minutes ago, Gibbo7420 said:

The question is, and nobody else seems to have grasped this yet, is that in the books, a man could only sense a woman channelling because he got goosebumps. So how could Logain have seen the power of Nyn's healing?

 

It became clear after years of observations by media scholars that films are a visual medium. Books, not so much, except if they have purty pittures.

[Harad the White]

2 hours ago, RhienneAgain said:

• the physical depiction of the Tinkers themselves.  It reminds me too much of the Gyptians from 'His Dark Materials' and feels derivative.
•  

"His Dark Materials" was written 11 years after the WoT, so you are right that it feels derivative.

[Beidomon]

3 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

iirc, this particular pecadillo of the Greens is mentioned on the page in at least one of the books (Egwene idly speculates about it to herself, even). So having it more than hinted at on the show is okay by me. Also, if this bothers you, give thanks that this isn't GoT, since we would have gotten to see Alannah Mosvani of the Green Ajah getting tag teamed in glorious rated R HD if it were.

 

They found a decent line between show don't tell, and don't show everything, imo. Also a great way to reinforce for audiences that this isn't Game of Thrones, and more fitting for an all ages audience.

Yeah, I can live with it, and I am typically highly allergic to this sort of stuff. It doesn’t come across as gratuitous or preachy to me because it seems more like they are exploring the depth of the bond between Aes sedai and their warders. 

[TheDreadReader]

1 hour ago, Gibbo7420 said:

The question is, and nobody else seems to have grasped this yet, is that in the books, a man could only sense a woman channelling because he got goosebumps. So how could Logain have seen the power of Nyn's healing?

 

Who says he say the power of Nyn's healing?   We saw it.   But, he may have been seeing something else.

He can see tav'veren for example.  

[Harad the White]

28 minutes ago, Els said:

So far Zoe Robins is killing it at playing Nynaeve and it's been a complete 180 from a frustrating character in RJ's depiction in the books to a holy cow she is one of my favourite characters so far in the show.

Give the Book a chance. You can't expect it to capture all the nuances of a multi-episode TV series.

[Mnemosyne]

5 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Please share where the sexual tension was.  

They don't share romantic looks, they don't embrace or touch tenderly.  The "sexual tension" appears to be that they are the opposite gender and alone together.

 

I personally didn't feel there was sexual tension. But when I talked with a friend of mine (who hasn't read the books) after watching, she commented that she thought there was.

 

They obviously have really good chemistry and some people are reading it as sexual. Not sure to what extent it's intentional.

[Beidomon]

1 hour ago, Brytac said:

Well one thing is for sure...im pleased Game of Thrones followed the books very closely(certainly early on).

 

The books become popular because they are good....they dont need fundamentally changing.

 

Im a little baffled by WOT at the moment, its almost like they have taken the setting and characters...and have decided Jordans story is not acceptable/good and want to use his work on a story of their own.

There are many reasons they’ve made a ton of changes and additions so far. Here are a few that come immediately to kind:

1. They want to add Logain story (and I agree).

2. Trying to play up the “mystery of the DR” as a new hook for the show (I disagree with this). 
3. Trying to make this more of an ensemble show by building out the other characters earlier (I agree with this). 
4. “Show don’t tell” of the world and lore building necessitates new and different scenes and sequences (well this I would understand IF they weren’t deliberately changing key lore).

 

Overall I can live with it, but I feel like now that we’ve got the groundwork mostly successfully laid, they need to start getting a bit more faithful to TEOTW. 

 

They’ve got FOUR HOURS LEFT to tell like half a book. That is extremely doable. Especially since they cut Caemlyn. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Beidomon

[Mnemosyne]

39 minutes ago, Els said:

So far Zoe Robins is killing it at playing Nynaeve and it's been a complete 180 from a frustrating character in RJ's depiction in the books to a holy cow she is one of my favourite characters so far in the show. 

 

This ^

[Els]

8 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Give the Book a chance. You can't expect it to capture all the nuances of a multi-episode TV series.

Oh I read the whole series - don't get me wrong I enjoyed the books I just meant while reading the books I didn't like Nynaeve as much as I'm enjoying her in the tv series so far. She was frustrating in the books for most of the series except for the last few books.

 

Also love the line from Lan in the show "You are welcome around our fire. If you promise not to shove anyone into it." ? I wish we got his response to Nynaeve about how she is what he expected. 

[testicularthom]

Random thoughts and feelings:

Much better.   I couldn't stand the portrayal of the Two Rivers Folk in the first episode but do not mind in the least the liberties they took of what Nyn did in this last episode.   I got the distinct impression that Two Rivers didn't generally approve of drinking and carrying on let alone the stuff about Matt's father and mother, although one could make the case that matt's father was a "street smart" guy being a horse trader, I never took him for a cheater.  Abel and Thom did some pretty heroic, selfless stuff in book 4! Not to say that a cheater couldn't do that too -- just not the picture I had of him.  Argh - Anyways... 

 

I'm embarrassed to say, I had a tear trembling on my eyelash for some parts of this episode.  Poor sod that I am. ?  Good job.  

Cheers,

 

[Sabio]

Wonder why all of the focus of Logain and yet no mention at all of Taim since they were both declaring to be the Dragon Reborn around the same time.

 

The new Nyn is great from the point she isn't shouting and hitting everyone, but I feel they have made her too powerful too fast and have gone over the edge of making her this powerful focus.  She has already saved Moiraine twice and saved almost every Aes Sedai and Warder.

[Agitel]

For all the plot deviations from the book, it should be considered that this episode introduces a lot of key book concepts without resorting to long exposition.

 

We learn a bit about why Aes Sedai are color coded and that there are different Ajahs and about what two or three of them do. We learn there is tension between Aes Sedai and no love lost between Liandrin and Moiraine. We see relationships with Warders have their own variations. We are really introduced to the taint on saidin and the madness. We're introduced to shielding and, in a climactic moment, linking. We get a bit of lore and misdirection about channeling sickness and early madness. We see the Fade clearly cautious around the ruby hilted dagger. We learn about the Way of the Leaf. There is a lot there.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Agitel

[CaddySedai]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

"His Dark Materials" was written 11 years after the WoT, so you are right that it feels derivative.

 

To a point since WoTPrime came out after HDM from a visual standpoint one can make an argument that it took some from that. 

 

But then again as you correctly state. HDM may have even pulled from WoT far before it. 

 

I do always love when some visual or trope is repeated. And the source material is older but people do not think naturally like that so our mouths write checks that facts wont cash tehe. 

 

I’m certainly guilty indeed. 

 

And to be fair the Tuatha’an are derivative too. Of gypsies in general (sorta a combination of “traveling folk” tales)

 

Even literature tends to be not unlike the Wheel itself. Ideas come round and round. They may have different names and faces - but similar cores. 

[Blackbyrd]

Good episode that nicely framed what it is to be stilled- building the world in a more natural way than the first 3 episodes. I would say there are some aspects that were overdone but the spectacle, which I found quite good, is hard to argue against. One shot I did enjoy was when the camera did something of a freeze frame on Alanna- that was a good effect and it that kind of shot that feels very WoTish. An episode that was mostly not in the books but felt very much like they could have taken place in the books. 

 

I'll complain again that they're doing a poor job of marking time- Thom is there and gone in a seeming flash w/o seemingly imparting very much knowledge but it's not some terrible thing

Spoiler

And though the Nynaeve Super Saiyan moment may have been somewhat overdone it does set up at least three things

1- Healing Logain eventually

2- Demonstrating that she has the power to survive hunting down the black ajah -assume this stays-

3- Beating down Mogs after like 8 months of training

 

Both 2&3 are served well after an early display of power like this

[Harad the White]

11 minutes ago, Blackbyrd said:

Thom is there and gone in a seeming flash w/o seemingly imparting very much knowledge but

Eeny beanie chili beanie the spirits are about to speak: I see a dark man in a future episode. The camera slowly reveals it to be

Spoiler

Thom

 

[rowdie]

I enjoyed the episode.   I'm not sure why they chose to deviate from the book so much?   ?  I absolutely love the special effects.   I wish they would incorporate a map somehow.  I don't believe it will have the success as G.O.T. or Lord of the Rings movies.  

 

What's wrong with Liandrans head?  Is that just how her face is really shaped or are they making it look ageless somehow.  

[ArrylT]

14 minutes ago, rowdie said:

I enjoyed the episode.   I'm not sure why they chose to deviate from the book so much?   ?  I absolutely love the special effects.   I wish they would incorporate a map somehow.  I don't believe it will have the success as G.O.T. or Lord of the Rings movies.  

 

What's wrong with Liandrans head?  Is that just how her face is really shaped or are they making it look ageless somehow.  

 

There is a map in the bonus content, along with a timeline - however it hasnt been updated (last I checked 3-4h ago) for episode 4.

[Hudson]

Excellent episode. Best so far. Hopefully they’re hitting their stride. Like some of the changes. Appreciate the old school hint at sexual relationships without feeling the need to show anything graphic. Means those of us with kids can enjoy them with our families…so far. 

[Harad the White]

9 minutes ago, rowdie said:

I'm not sure why they chose to deviate from the book so

It's not a thing. If you copy a book and change words, you deviate from the book.  When you change media from book to film you are re-creating the story --a separate act of creation. People used to complain about Harry Potter 1 movie because it "slavishly" followed the book. Others loved the LoTR film because it didn't.  But in either case, and for WoT, there are two separate works of art. You may like both, neither, one or the other, but they should be judged on their own. 

[ArrylT]

 

Sarah confirms on this thread that Logain CANNOT see Nynaeves channeling

 

[AusLeviathan]

16 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Sarah confirms on this thread that Logain CANNOT see Nynaeves channeling

She could have just said Logain was seeing a powerful Ta'veren for the first time (presumably) and his comment about a raging sun was invoking that.

 

I have no idea why she chose to use this much weirder explanation that doesn't really fit with Logain's comment of what he saw.

 

Unless of course Nynaeve isn't a Ta'veren in the show and she had no other explanation.

 

Ah I see, she also said this so she seems a bit unsure, feels like she's trying to find the explanation for Logain's reaction that people will like the most.

Quote

I'd also add that lets say Logain is reacting to light? Ny really could've used a light weave here (woman shrugging) Logain can see the effect of the channeling just not the weaves.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Arie]

Let me make a note, Male Channeler's can't -see- female waves, but they can SENSE when they channel. So the commentary may not be about the visual at all, but that Feeling of just POWER that comes from Nynaeve.

[AusLeviathan]

22 minutes ago, Arie said:

Let me make a note, Male Channeler's can't -see- female waves, but they can SENSE when they channel. So the commentary may not be about the visual at all, but that Feeling of just POWER that comes from Nynaeve.

Men sensing women channel is a book thing that hasn't been confirmed in the show and given that even things like shielding have been significantly changed from the books I wouldn't be assuming anything in the show = books without the show making it clear.

 

We see a light show, Logain turns away and covers his eyes as soon as the light appears, when the light stops he uncovers his eyes and looks at her in awe and says "like a raging Sun", a comment describing a light source.

 

I think it's pretty clear the show intended for people to interpret that Logain saw light coming from Nynaeve. Personally I think they'd be better off just going with the explanation the he was seeing a powerful Ta'veren for the first time and link that into the Aes Sedai suspecting she could be the DR.

 

Sarah suggesting that he felt something rather than saw something (despite the fact that he covered his eyes) makes me think they're not going to do that though.

Edited November 27, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Arie]

It is a possibility, at the very least. ? 

We'll see how it all plays out over the various seasons and what evolves from it.