The casting thread

[Polskija]

13 minutes ago, Jaglover said:

From the physical descriptions two rivers folk are basically Welsh.  The girls are small and dark haired and eyed with fair skin.

 

Diversity is all very well until you end up with an actress who looks nothing like a physical description you've held in your head for the last twenty years and questionable whether it was required given the diversity that already exists in WOT world. 

For what it's worth, I've been reading a lot of comments on many platforms about the casting and it seems pretty clear to me, that a lot of us has had our own images in our minds about what people look. 

 

Since TR folk are described as darker skin tone, it leaves room for interpreting and this is what KV Hendry and Rafe and co came up with. For me it's close enough and it comes down to writing and acting now. 

 

At least, I think people raging about the show "going woke" are over reacting. 

[Jaglover]

16 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

All well and good to be as exact as possible but I don't think even Amazon has the budget to comb through every welsh village with posters of vague descriptions. Also they're fictional characters, if people are going to get hung on the difference between a light skinned black person or a dark complected white person, then someone has issues.

Issues or just a strong connection with some characters.

 

Perrin was just a big strong guy to me. Guy they've got for him looks OK, though it does rather go against what we know of the Two Rivers setting.

 

Nynaeve is my favourite female character in one of my favourite fantasy series. Her physical description is very much a part of what makes her who she is. The actress they have got for her is five inches taller and looks very little like her.  

[ferrasa]

1 hour ago, DemandredFO said:

All well and good to be as exact as possible but I don't think even Amazon has the budget to comb through every welsh village with posters of vague descriptions. Also they're fictional characters, if people are going to get hung on the difference between a light skinned black person or a dark complected white person, then someone has issues.

 

See Jordan's list, then you will know that who has problems.

[Ryrin]

On 8/14/2019 at 9:17 PM, SinisterDeath said:

It's not intrinsically that when it comes to those who disagree the casting. There's obviously more than one reason people can disagree with the casting. What it boils down to is how they disagree with the casting, and the verbiage they use to explain why they disagree with it, that really shows if they disagree with the casting for that reason. 

 

I was responding to this:

 

“But let me address the elephant in the room: many people on Twitter, and I'm sure other places online, are freaking out over the color of skin several of these actors have.”

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[imlad]

2 hours ago, Jaglover said:

From the physical descriptions two rivers folk are basically Welsh.  The girls are small and dark haired and eyed with fair skin.

 

Diversity is all very well until you end up with an actress who looks nothing like a physical description you've held in your head for the last twenty years and questionable whether it was required given the diversity that already exists in WOT world. 

 

It's easy to say the book describes the characters one way, but if you are using that to say that this casting is contradicting the books then you need to back that up: give a quote with chapter number and book number. Otherwise it is just something you think you are recalling.

[Ryrin]

As for unexpected things .... I’m listening to the WoT on Audible.  I had always pronounced Nynaeve as Ny-nave but it’s Ny-neeve.

[Ryrin]

23 minutes ago, imlad said:

 

It's easy to say the book describes the characters one way, but if you are using that to say that this casting is contradicting the books then you need to back that up: give a quote with chapter number and book number. Otherwise it is just something you think you are recalling.

 

“Elayne had red gold curls and big blue eyes.”

 

Wheel of Time Companion under “e.”

 

page 242

Edited August 15, 2019 by Ryrin

[imlad]

On 8/14/2019 at 6:50 PM, Ryrin said:

 

Robert Jordan described his characters, their clothing, appearance, and cultures in great detail. That is not Egwene. 

 

Okay, please, quoting the books, describe Egwene in such a was as to show how this young woman is not her... And include which chapter and book you are using please.

 

22 hours ago, ferrasa said:

WOT casting by Robert Jordan (the author of the series)

 

 

Rand: a young Ben Affleck

Mat: James Garner at age 21

Perrin: a young Val Kilmer

Egwene: Audrey Hepburn at age 18

Nynaeve: a young Jacqueline Bisset

Aviendha: a young Sophia Loren

Elayne: Nicole Kidman at age 18

Min: Isabella Rossellini

Tuon: Halle Berry

Moiraine: Hedy Lamarr

Lan: Liam Neeson in one of his craggier roles

Birgitte: Lucy Lawless of Xena

Faile: Cher at age 19

Thom: Patrick Stewart with hair

Verin: a young Margaret Rutherford

Siuan (after stilling): Renee Zellweger (before appearance change)

Gareth Bryne: a combination Charlton Heston and John Wayne

Morgase: Michelle Pfeiffer

Berelain: Isabelle Adjani

Padan Fain: Alan Rickman

Semirhage: Naomi Campbell or Tyra Banks

Demandred: Omar Sharif

Lanfear: a younger Catherine Deneuve

 

Do you have a source for this, because I would really like to see that source, since most of those actors look nothing like how Mr Rigney described them in his writing.

 

20 hours ago, Ryrin said:

 

I was responding to this:

 

“But let me address the elephant in the room: many people on Twitter, and I'm sure other places online, are freaking out over the color of skin several of these actors have.

 

Yep, I figured you were reacting to what I wrote. 

 

SinisterDeath's point below is also pretty good on this as well, although I personally think he is a little more forgiving than I am. Ironic, considering that name LOL. In my "About Me" I just consider myself a liberal 21st Century Gentleman and figure that covers it all (although "The Geeky Hippie" is also a good moniker for me). 

 

On 8/14/2019 at 9:17 PM, SinisterDeath said:

It's not intrinsically that when it comes to those who disagree the casting. There's obviously more than one reason people can disagree with the casting. What it boils down to is how they disagree with the casting, and the verbiage they use to explain why they disagree with it, that really shows if they disagree with the casting for that reason. 

 

Very well said, SinisterDeath! 

Perhaps I started a sh-, um, "Blight-storm" by bringing people all over the internet are losing their freaking minds over non-whites being cast in roles that they all (and I myself) assumed were white characters, because many of us just did that: ass-u-me. Most of us probably never really noticed any descriptors keying in on skin color for the Emond's Fielders, and this will probably be debated for a while to come as people pour back over the books looking specifically for any sort of reference they can find to argue the point one way or the other.

 

But to be honest, at this point, I don't really bloody care anymore if their skin color is 100% accurate to the book; we have our cast for the Emond's Field Five. We have a standard set for what to expect for the Two Rivers: various shades of light skinned brown people to slightly dark skinned white people, or so it seems so far at least. We still have Tam al'Thor to see, and the Coplins/Congars as well as old Cenn Buie, and of course Haral Luhhan and his wife.

 

About the only characters I do care about their skin color are the Aiel, who have to be a bunch of blonds and gingers, and Juilin Sandar (who is definitely a black man, no ifs ands or buts about it), and Tuon. Many of the other Seanchan Blood are quite dark skinned as well, although not all (and even some of the non-Blood can be dark skinned too!). Sure, I'd like most of the Domani to still be "copper skinned" as described, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it, or throw a fit online about it, or post any sort of angry or negative comment if they cast otherwise. What I will get upset at is if they start casting skinny people for all of the innkeepers (excepting that one particular innkeeper), or short people as Aiel, or tall people as Cairhienin. Those descriptors actually played a role in the story in some way or another (Jordan's fetish for inordinately tall people aside). I even think it would make sense for there to be some skin tone variation among the Ogier, because why not? Vulcans have multiple races (well, two races, since I've never seen a Latino or Asian of any sort play a Vulcan), so why not the equally fictitious and alien Ogier? Oh, and the Myrddraal all better be played by the same actor throughout the series, because I'm damned sure, cannabis infused as my brain may be, that I remember Jordan consistently describing the Myrddraal as all looking the exact same. (I still think Adrian Brody would be perfect as the Fades, but would probably cost too much).

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath
just a slight tweek

[imlad]

1 hour ago, Ryrin said:

 

“Elayne had red gold curls and big blue eyes.”

 

Wheel of Time Companion under “e.”

 

page 242

 

Yes, that's Elayne. She hasn't been cast yet. So what is your point? This example has zero bearing on the conversation at present. Try again, and this time go for Egwene, Nynaeve, Perrin or Matrim.

[djanego]

Everyone's made a lot of good arguments that make sense, but really it comes down to how the writers and producers interpreted the books, and how they want to convey it to a new audience. I've always visualised pretty much all the characters as white unless specified by RJ, but I have no issues with the casting. Perhaps the people of Emond's Field will be generally dark-skinned, and Rand and Mat are the outlier? The books are still there for us in their perfect form anyway, I don't need an adaptation that will give me the same experience as the books. Anyway, I'm super super excited for an Aussie girl to play Egwene.

[SinisterDeath]

 

Quote

People all over the internet are losing their freaking minds over non-whites being cast in roles that they all (and I myself) assumed were white characters, because many of us just did that: ass-u-me. Most of us probably never really noticed any descriptors keying in on skin color for the Emond's Fielders, and this will probably be debated for a while to come as people pour back over the books looking specifically for any sort of reference they can find to argue the point one way or the other.

That they are. I spent way too many hours last night on Facebook & Twitter just tossing out how it can work, just by reading the passages in the books. 
I, probably like most people who read the books (who are probably mostly white) assumed the characters were all white. Going back and re-reading descriptions pretty much shows, "Huh, I guess they could be far darker. We assume that the two rivers is one giant homogenized population with absolutely no clumps. 

On the other hand, people are talking about Wheel of Time again.

 

Quote

About the only characters I do care about their skin color are the Aiel, who have to be a bunch of blonds and gingers, and Juilin Sandar (who is definitely a black man, no ifs ands or buts about it), and Tuon.

Aiel being Ginger dessert dwellers has to be a thing. Like, they're allowed to be Tan but they're definitely gingers.

 

Juilin Sandar, somehow I never knew that until I read someone mentioning it in a thread here. I somehow completely glossed that over.

 

Tuon: These days I picture her as being a very dark skinned person of Asian descent. I saw a picture of a model, someone of Asian descent that could definitely be described as having skin like ebony.

 

Quote

 What I will get upset at is if they start casting skinny people for all of the innkeepers (excepting that one particular innkeeper),

1000x this.
Fat Innkeepers unite!

 

Quote

 Oh, and the Myrddraal all better be played by the same actor throughout the series, because I'm damned sure, cannabis infused as my brain may be, that I remember Jordan consistently describing the Myrddraal as all looking the exact same. (I still think Adrian Brody would be perfect as the Fades, but would probably cost too much).

Mr.Smith it?

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[KingRodel]

I think a lot of the arguments are occurring because of vague definitions. How dark are we talking about Two Rivers folks? Like, dark black, or just tan caucasian? Somewhere in between? People seem to not know which and they equivocate on the definition all the time. 

 

I give that my arguments are somewhat lacking. (Although, Perrin with brown hair instead of red still kind of makes my point. It is rare, though not impossible, for a person of color to have brown hair.) I still think it makes the most sense for the characters to be white, but I will admit that it's probably just personal opinion.

 

Also, that guy suggested for Fain was super creepy and pretty much perfect.

[Polskija]

There was a rumor of a guy that visited Prague and had tweeted something mysterious about it being affiliated with Amazon. A fan had tagged him and he had responded "He would be very happy to be part of the Wheel of Time family". 

 

The guy looked like Voldemort irl - or a myrdraal. 

 

I've been trying to find those tweets a couple of times, but my skill with twitter is still on the level of a novice so it'll stay as vague as this. We'll see. 

 

34 minutes ago, KingRodel said:

I think a lot of the arguments are occurring because of vague definitions. How dark are we talking about Two Rivers folks? Like, dark black, or just tan caucasian? Somewhere in between? People seem to not know which and they equivocate on the definition all the time. 

 

I think what ever we as fans decide in our minds, my opinion is that the casting team has been in the range of what the books describe the TR people. In my mind I think I always saw Egwene and Nynaeve as sort of Italian by their looks, but I'll accept the people they cast. Funnily, so far as I've been listening to Wheel of time even today, I still have the old images in my mind, not the newly cast. 

37 minutes ago, KingRodel said:

Also, that guy suggested for Fain was super creepy and pretty much perfect.

 

I agree 100%. 

[Elaevia]

the most important question is do I start my reread now? or wait for more of the early character cast announcements to be made to so can start picturing them in the story as well?

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, KingRodel said:

I give that my arguments are somewhat lacking. (Although, Perrin with brown hair instead of red still kind of makes my point

Rand is the only Ginger among the Two Rivers, Perrin has brown hair. (Cover art that shows red-head Perrin is obviously wrong. lol)
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Perrin_Aybara

[KingRodel]

37 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Rand is the only Ginger among the Two Rivers, Perrin has brown hair. (Cover art that shows red-head Perrin is obviously wrong. lol)

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Perrin does have brown hair, the cover art is wrong in that regard.

[MasterAblar]

So admittedly I don’t think the actors appearance is really faithful to what Robert Jordan describes (for exemple it’s mentioned that after spending considerable time amongst the Aiel, Egwene’s skin has tanned enough that she looks similar to them), and in that sense it isn’t entirely faithful to the source material. To me this isn’t really an issue since skin color is generally speaking pretty unimportant in the wheel of time.

 

The only thing I find problematic is that Mat, Perrin, Egwene, and Nyneave don’t all look like they’re from the same secluded little area, the people of whom all look similar enough that Rand himself sticks out like a sore thumb. That part I find a bit frustrating to be honest. However it’s not a huge issue all things considered even though I tend to prefer adaptations to be as faithful as possible to the source material as possible (and skin color is after all hardly something that needs to be changed for ease of filming).

 

But like I said it’s a minor quibble and a foreseeable one at that (in other words I would have been very surprised if they had made all the main characters of the 1st season white even though that’s fairly obviously what the author wrote them as).

 

More important is that these actors are able to portray these characters well, and for what it’s worth I think Mat, Perrin, and Egwene are excellent. Rand is pretty good but it was always gonna be hard to portray him perfectly. For Nyneave, I’m not gonna lie that picture isn’t at all what I pictured her as but it could be just that particular image so I’m not hugely worried. 

[Jaglover]

12 hours ago, france2010 said:

More important is that these actors are able to portray these characters well, and for what it’s worth I think Mat, Perrin, and Egwene are excellent. Rand is pretty good but it was always gonna be hard to portray him perfectly. For Nyneave, I’m not gonna lie that picture isn’t at all what I pictured her as but it could be just that particular image so I’m not hugely worried. 

Well exactly on Nynaeve

 

Nynaeve is a short, slight girl, but as fierce as a lioness despite it. That is the core of her character but we are supposed to celebrate an actress being cast who looks so different because they happen to be a different race?  

 

As you say Madeleine Madden looks like she would be a good Egwene as she has the more delicate features for it and the attitude seems right. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[KingRodel]

Huh, that's funny. I personally think the Nynaeve casting is fine and have hesitations on the Egwene casting. To each his own. ?

[imlad]

 

15 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Quote

 Oh, and the Myrddraal all better be played by the same actor throughout the series, because I'm damned sure, cannabis infused as my brain may be, that I remember Jordan consistently describing the Myrddraal as all looking the exact same. (I still think Adrian Brody would be perfect as the Fades, but would probably cost too much).

Mr.Smith it?
 

More like "Jack Driscoll" it (or more recently "Luca Changretta" it)...

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[RDY]

There's a problem with that Robert Jordan list of actors.

 

In the Eye of the World chapter 31 Rand remarks that he has never seen a person with yellow hair (blonde) in his life before he met Ms Grinwell, Else Grinwell's mother.

 

The list puts Val Kilmer as Perrin.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but Val Kilmer is blonde. If Jordan was casting whoever he wanted in his head, why write that Rand had never met a blonde person in his life and then cast a blonde actor to play Perrin, one of his closest friends?

 

The list also has Jacqueline Bisset playing Nynaeve.

 

Rand remarks in chapter 2, when he meets Thom, how unusual it's to see two people with blue eyes in the same day (Lan and Thom). Everybody in the Two Rivers had dark eyes, according to Rand, with him being the exception and having been bullied before due to it (by Congars and Coplins). 

 

Jacqueline Bisset has blue eyes.

 

Again, is that list true or not? Lots of inconsistencies with the books.

 

So, is that list true or not?

Edited August 15, 2019 by RDY

[Nym]

SIAP but Sanderson said this on reddit.

[KingRodel]

To @RDY's point, I googled the RJ cast. I'm pretty sure it is some random person's dream cast that they titled oddly. Anyone: correct me if that is wrong.

 

Do the fades even need an actor? I always imagined them being CGI'd. I doubt they'd spend the big $ for an actor for characters with no eyes. Who knows, though - I've been known to be wrong. ?

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[SinisterDeath]

10 hours ago, KingRodel said:

To @RDY's point, I googled the RJ cast. I'm pretty sure it is some random person's dream cast that they titled oddly. Anyone: correct me if that is wrong.

 

Do the fades even need an actor? I always imagined them being CGI'd. I doubt they'd spend the big $ for an actor for characters with no eyes. Who knows, though - I've been known to be wrong. ?

Just get Del Toro involved, and whoever did the makeup for Pans Labyrinth.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[Polskija]

28 minutes ago, KingRodel said:

Do the fades even need an actor? I always imagined them being CGI'd. I doubt they'd spend the big $ for an actor for characters with no eyes. Who knows, though - I've been known to be wrong. ?

I understood that they got this guy, Nick Dudman, who's some sort of a wizard when it comes to make ups, so I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of non-cgi monsters and all that. 

 

Here's the daily trolloc about him: 

 

http://www.thedailytrolloc.com/2019/06/the-daily-trolloc-92.html

 

Oh, and the myrdraal speculation guy was also there, he's called Joseph Gatt. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Polskija