Tainted Minds - A Black Tower Mafia Game: Game over - Town wins

[LedZepMan]

 

 

 

I'll be more specific. You say you can mechanically clear Clov/Ley by tomorrow. How?

 

That's where you are losing me. That's what I want to know.

 

have all three seers peek the same person at night. even if one dies in the night (would be you), you get two results. if the result is the same, the dead seer was insane and the other two seers are sane. if the result is different, the dead seer was sane, and then you have to figure which of the two remaining is sane/insane.

How do you plan on achieving coordinating the other two seers?

You find someone that hasn't been peeked often, and someone you (since you are the claimed cop) haven't peeked, and we post that name in the thread. All three of you peek them. The other two cops claim with results.

That doesn't jive. First you advocate secrecy, then openness? Am I the only one here seeing a hypocrit?

[Cory Caboose]

I said no more seers should reveal today. Having more peeks is always better. The wolves killed a vanilla villager last night. They might have done so again tonight, and gotten 3 seers to d3 with a sanities confirmed and a ton of useful information that could have made this game a laugher.

 

I have sucked it up. I work precisely with what I am given. I just don't need your specific support, which is fine, because you seem extremely unwilling to give it. I don't care.

[Shitsure Kamimashita]

I wanted to say more, nastier things SK. I chose to stop myself before I let the tirade fly. I did not however delete what I had already gotten down.

Why? Either you follow him or don't I don't see the need to be nasty. It's just a game fren :(

[Cory Caboose]

hm, maybe getting seers later into the game with more peeks before revealing would be more useful than having them die early with less information?

 

nevermind. that sounds ridiculous!

[Clovdyx]

That doesn't jive. First you advocate secrecy, then openness? Am I the only one here seeing a hypocrit?

 

 

I never advocated for thing.  I'm explaining to you how it works.

 

And for what it's worth, what Cory said previously was, the other cops shouldn't claim today.

[LedZepMan]

You definitely can achieve the lynch without me. But not the rest of the players. Just because someone questions you doesn't mean you dismiss them. Especially when you are trying to achieve a group vote. You should actually try harder to win them over ya dummy.

[Cory Caboose]

You definitely can achieve the lynch without me. But not the rest of the players. Just because someone questions you doesn't mean you dismiss them. Especially when you are trying to achieve a group vote. You should actually try harder to win them over ya dummy.

 

i have had pretty civil communications with just about everyone except you and dice. dice is the person i want to lynch, so i'm not really expecting his vote. i think at least 3 players not voting said "i'm good with lynching dice, but don't want to rush the day phase" - a stance i respect deeply and would not argue with. different strokes for different folks.

[LedZepMan]

I said no more seers should reveal today. Having more peeks is always better. The wolves killed a vanilla villager last night. They might have done so again tonight, and gotten 3 seers to d3 with a sanities confirmed and a ton of useful information that could have made this game a laugher.

 

I have sucked it up. I work precisely with what I am given. I just don't need your specific support, which is fine, because you seem extremely unwilling to give it. I don't care.

You seem like a man who is so cocksure of himself that he never sees the cliff in front of his car until he has dropped off the ledge.

[Cory Caboose]

You seem like a man who is so cocksure of himself that he never sees the cliff in front of his car until he has dropped off the ledge.

 

It's a game bruv. If I was too afraid to be wrong about my reads to pursue them, I'd take up checkers or yahtzee.

[LedZepMan]

 

You definitely can achieve the lynch without me. But not the rest of the players. Just because someone questions you doesn't mean you dismiss them. Especially when you are trying to achieve a group vote. You should actually try harder to win them over ya dummy.

i have had pretty civil communications with just about everyone except you and dice. dice is the person i want to lynch, so i'm not really expecting his vote. i think at least 3 players not voting said "i'm good with lynching dice, but don't want to rush the day phase" - a stance i respect deeply and would not argue with. different strokes for different folks.

I tried keeping this civil. All I wanted was to get a little insight into where you were coming from. All you gave me in return was a bunch of BS.

 

I won't be voting Dice with you. You don't deserve anybody's support

[Cory Caboose]

I tried keeping this civil. All I wanted was to get a little insight into where you were coming from. All you gave me in return was a bunch of BS.

I won't be voting Dice with you. You don't deserve anybody's support

 

I've been pretty damn transparent, so not sure what amazing magic you are looking for.

 

You are welcome to your opinion.

[LedZepMan]

hm, maybe getting seers later into the game with more peeks before revealing would be more useful than having them die early with less information?

 

nevermind. that sounds ridiculous!

Or let's just dither around with our weiners in our hands instead of scumhunting. You may be able to wring reads out of others in this farcical new play style, but I cannot. I'm not the best player around. But mebbe, just mebbe, instead of being a complete douche to those who don't play like you, you should reach out a hand and work with them.

[Cory Caboose]

 All I wanted was to get a little insight into where you were coming from. All you gave me in return was a bunch of BS.

 

I have explained in depth why I want to lynch dice, and why I do not want to resolve Clov/Leyrann today.

 

I'm not going to rephrase the same things I've said over and over to make you happy, I am not going to talk at a brick wall for five pages because he doesn't like how I play.

 

Pursue your Clov lynch, I'll do my thing, let's just move on.

[Cory Caboose]

 

hm, maybe getting seers later into the game with more peeks before revealing would be more useful than having them die early with less information?

 

nevermind. that sounds ridiculous!

Or let's just dither around with our weiners in our hands instead of scumhunting. You may be able to wring reads out of others in this farcical new play style, but I cannot. I'm not the best player around. But mebbe, just mebbe, instead of being a complete douche to those who don't play like you, you should reach out a hand and work with them.

 

 

Basically every player plays differently. I have zero issue with how you play, but I do disagree with who you want to lynch today.

 

Perhaps you should take your own advice?

[LedZepMan]

 

That doesn't jive. First you advocate secrecy, then openness? Am I the only one here seeing a hypocrit?

 

I never advocated for thing. I'm explaining to you how it works.

 

And for what it's worth, what Cory said previously was, the other cops shouldn't claim today.

That's a thin line. And I wasn't saying you advocated anything. I'm strictly focused on Cory. I tried to work with him and he flung a sand in me eyes. I take it his ego can't take anyone questioning him.

[LedZepMan]

 

 

hm, maybe getting seers later into the game with more peeks before revealing would be more useful than having them die early with less information?

 

nevermind. that sounds ridiculous!

Or let's just dither around with our weiners in our hands instead of scumhunting. You may be able to wring reads out of others in this farcical new play style, but I cannot. I'm not the best player around. But mebbe, just mebbe, instead of being a complete douche to those who don't play like you, you should reach out a hand and work with them.

Basically every player plays differently. I have zero issue with how you play, but I do disagree with who you want to lynch today.

 

Perhaps you should take your own advice?

I tried. I expressed doubt in a normal, concerned way. You got all prissy that I wouldn't follow you Willy nilly.

[Cory Caboose]

Drop it. Let's move on.

[Cory Caboose]

I tried. I expressed doubt in a normal, concerned way. You got all prissy that I wouldn't follow you Willy nilly.

 

I don't expect anyone to follow me willy nilly; I made my case and I stand by it. A vast majority of my posts are tongue-in-cheek, I don't at all expect people to just do what I want them to do.

 

I still do not care who you vote today. It is your vote, you are allowed to do what you want with it. It's not something I can control.

[Andrej]

Vote Count

Clov (2) - LZM, SK
Dice (2) - Marsh, Sooh

[Andrej]

Remember to mind your language.

[Clovdyx]

You know what?  I actually like this idea.  Let's get one wagon on Dice, for people that think we should try to confirm sanity and get live peeks by lynching OUTSIDE of the peeks.  Let's get me up as the counterwagon, for anyone that thinks we should go with the guilty.

[LedZepMan]

You know what? I actually like this idea. Let's get one wagon on Dice, for people that think we should try to confirm sanity and get live peeks by lynching OUTSIDE of the peeks. Let's get me up as the counterwagon, for anyone that thinks we should go with the guilty.

That sounds downright reasonable.

[Cory Caboose]

For the sake of clarity, my thoughts on dice:

 

Some problems I have with Dice's content

 

- BFG noted that dice did not react to SK's self-vote the way dice normally would. Dice explained he was waiting to see what Nolder did; Nolder did the opposite of what dice expected, but he was talked out of pursuing it in a meaningful way incredibly quickly. Nothing in that sequence felt like genuine dice. I am not sure if he didn't know how to handle BFG calling him out on something very out of character for him and pretended it was a strategy as a [convenient lie], or if he plotted it in advance. In the first scenario, he's always a wolf - dice wouldn't tell a meaningless lie as a villager, he'd just explain himself. In the second scenario, I doubt he does that and then immediately disengages from it as soon as Nolder gives some rational for it. Dice is an attacker, and when he sees something suspect, he attacks. I'm not saying he'd tunnel Nolder, but he'd at least follow up and try to discern Nolder's alignment rather than just accepting his answer and never thinking about it again.

 

- His reads on re-entry have been very thin. His read on Niniel was okay, but it's a read he'd be heavily expected to make as a villager and I'd guess he's very aware of that. Moreso, a handful of weak-ish townreads and no real attack from dice are perpetually poor signs.

 

- Even in his brief entries into the game, his level of engagement and outward reach are all basically zero. Even on limited time, dice is someone who very much will at least attempt to reach out to people and try to work in his own way to figure out their alignments. His reads this game have been reactionary and sluggish. I have been in games with dice he's hopped out of his wolf range in literally 5-8 posts, not through volume, but just by showcasing his thought process and making meaningful reads he processed through his internal filter. It's utterly absent here.

re: Dice & SK; Dice does do the policy lynch anyone claiming scum thing, but it's usually just an element of his game.

 

Here, it's basically his entire game. He has no interest in other people's alignments, it's basically the only thing resembling a scum read. And he never pursues SK in a meaningful way besides the vote & a few times going "SK claimed scum so I'm gonna lynch him".

 

Doing what people expect you to do is ipso facto how many players approach playing mafia, and dice is included in this. I care much more about what people don't do.

also worth noting: dice has interacted with BFG (who was d1's most vocal player by a fair margin) more than anyone else and yet has not made a single read on her. BFG is someone dice typically attempts to read. He treats her like a villager in the sense that he's responsive to her questions and tries to give reasonable answers - except when she approves dice votes.

 

As much as BFG is a pretty consensus villager overall, dice not even bothering to say something about her slot is problematic. Village!dice doesn't give a damn about what is or isn't consensus, he wants to "get there" by himself. Seems more like she removed herself from the mislynch pool through her play early and so he's basically ignored any interaction with her that isn't an effort to improve how he looks to her.

And why I don't want to lynch between Clov/Leyrann today:

 

Well, with the traitor dead, we know the following things:

 

- Any peeked villager by a true seer is a confirmed villager. Mafia do not have any ability that would make a peeked villager unreliable.

- Any peeked mafia by an insane seer is a confirmed villager. Insane seers get opposite peeks, so this is true for the same reasons above.

 

LZM is a claimed seer with a mafia peek on Clov and a town peek on Ley. There are ways we can determine seer sanity literally this night phase regardless of whether or not LZM dies (a likelihood). What exactly I would propose we do is dependent on dice's flip.

 

But basically, one of Ley/Clov will be a confirmed villager, and due to the framing mechanics, neither is a confirmed wolf - so I don't want to lynch either today.

 

Having confirmed villagers is extraordinarily valuable in smaller games. For example, if we get to d4 (7 alive) with 2 seers and 2 confirmed villagers, or 1 seer and 3 confirmed villagers (etc.) alive, the game is an auto-win because the wolves would still need 2 mislynches with only one player they can possibly mislynch (the others all being mechanical villagers).

[Cory Caboose]

You know what?  I actually like this idea.  Let's get one wagon on Dice, for people that think we should try to confirm sanity and get live peeks by lynching OUTSIDE of the peeks.  Let's get me up as the counterwagon, for anyone that thinks we should go with the guilty.

Fine with this as an approach

 

[v]dicetosser1[/v]

[Clovdyx]

All I ask is that those that know they're going to vote me do so early.

 

For, you know - reindeer games and stuff.