[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Nynaeve]

Gonna finish catching up and hopefully manage to dish out some ISOs tonight. BE AFRAID. 

[Cory Caboose]

hi Nyn :)

[Nynaeve]

hi Nyn :)

 

Hi Cory     still beaching it?

[Razen]

Before I start, the disadvantage to this is that I don't see everything in context.  So some of the details will be off.  I'm trying to account for that as I go through, but if I miss something, call me on it.

 

Seph:

 

 

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a
Stay and share.
Hally,real quick. Are you town?

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.
all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

Seph has the same response as his other half (unsure as to the timing of who comes first).

 

 

I'm liking Sili's vote, wish is null for me but sili getting involved early is a pretty good sign.

Seph likes Sili's getting involved.  I'm not surprised that you have Wish as null here: the game barely started, haha.

 

 

Wish did you come from a different site? Your posts are oddly energetic, but I'm thinking it's a good thing.

Question towards Wish if she came from a different site where they played mafia.  He seems to like her tone early on.

 

 

caught up finally! 
keeping up with this game is going to be a task lol. I know we have 30 pages already, but alot of it is just fluff. I saw some good points by clov, and cory here recently. I need to look over the sili/ kiv situation again.

I have a gaint quote list to still type up now ><

Catch-up summary.

 

Liked points made by Clov and Cory, and wants to re-examine Sili/Kiv.  Did he follow through on this?  And what were the points he liked from Clov and Cory?

 

*******

#668, pg. 34 - (side note - how do you guys get the posts to link nicely with their numbers those of you who link them?)

I'm calling this out in this way because I don't want to respond to the whole spoilered wall.  A couple points I noticed in it.

 

Seph doesn't like Hallia's vote at all.  He thinks that the Kiv reason is not a good one, and that Mish's defensive reaction towards Laine was null.  This is different from his other half's take on it, because Zander liked Hallia's vote.

 

He confirms that he likes Wish's tone from before.

 

Seph likes Mish's retaliatory vote on Laine.  I don't think he agrees with the point that Sili is making about Mish just using the pre-announced justification to put early pressure on Laine.  The emotion from Mish is null - something I've noticed a lot of people saying - and that Laine's answers are good and look better for them?  Who's them?  Mish/Kivam?  Laine herself?  A missing third party that I'm not aware of?

 

Calls Shad out for a double standard of parking his joke vote on Seph/Zander(?) when Shad called Hallia out for not providing her reasoning for voting Kiv/Mish earlier after Clov prodded her with his sass question.  I'm not sure I'm understanding this point.  It's kind of convoluted.

*************

#669, pg. 34 -

 

Again calls Shad out for parking his vote on Seph/Zander and calls it hypocritical.

 

Wants to look back based on the last two lines of Sili's post justifying his vote on Kiv/Mish.  Did he follow up on that?  It sounds like he was trying to see if he could find a meta reason or something to explain, based on using language that he'd played in a past game with Kiv.

 

Responds to Nyn.  Sees her positively for digging.  If what he's saying is true about past games where Nyn had hydra'ed, it feels kind of interesting that Nyn points this out.  It's a meta argument that I'm unfamiliar with and don't know the details of.  And he agrees with Nyn's reasoning about Kiv's bogus use of meta to vote Pralaya.

**********************

Yay, back to actual quotes!

 

 

 

Shad - Why Mish? (Catching up so you may have said :p)

She didn't check to see if Seph's statement was accurate before voting me on it.

EXACTLY. At the time shad posted it, he was sitting on us, so I did find it odd. However he does come around and shows his suspicion towards team derp, and decides to leave his vote on us.

Tayla, what are you asking?
Heading back to start where I left off last night.

 

I'm not following this line at all.  What was odd - the fact that Mish hopped on an inaccurate statement?  Shad's apparent contradiction (which really wasn't, since I think he said in between the point he joked and Mish hopped on that he wanted to make it official)?  Or is it the third, which I'm not following at all.  Which is the coming around and showing his suspicion toward you guys and leaving his vote parked on you?

 

 

Thanks for that post yates, I was having
Trouble trying to follow that earlier in my read, and it helped quite a bit.

I'm glad to see cory/clov talking like this, because from past games I remember they always seemed to be buddy buddy, And let each other float bye until later in the game.

This point is interesting.  He likes the interactions between Clov/Cory.  Is that challenging the buddy/buddy assumption that he's gotten from them in the past? And is this a good thing or a bad thing?  For whom?

 

*******

#1281, p. 65 -

 

Promises a reads list to come. 

 

I agree with the question here.  Why Nolder?  I'm not certain how he'd reacted at that point of the game, but I don't remember anything from him that seemed gamey or could come anything close to providing a read.

 

I like how he's pushing John Snow over Cory, because Snow called out that there's a difference between him and some of the others - he was unfamiliar with how Cory played.

 

The last point on Nolder - seems like a really convoluted way to call Nol out for fence sitting and taking a contradictory opinion towards the same issue.  Which doesn't look good for Nolder.  But it also is a point I've noticed on Seph too - he's hard to follow.

*******

 

 

 

@ Sili - the reason of the Meh - at the end of reading yesterday, you had posted a fair bit, but couldn't pick anything major out and no feelings either way. Will need to reread you. Why did you vote Darthe and then unvote and vote Kivam?

 
I am unimpressed with Darthe. It was a hunch.
 
But Kivam is better. He was nitpicking Zander's statement to misinterpret it and build a push. It echoes his behavior last I saw his mafia play, and in general I think repeatedly 'misinterpreting' people is a sign of mafia.

I was thinking this the whole time I have been reading about kiv. I was in a ongoing game with him, before this and helped lynch him day 2. I went and read it again and the biggest difference is the way he reacts to the pressure. As scum he kept trying to push his angles, and seemed to have more of a bravodos in ghat game, where as this one, he seems more defensive.

I'm hoping to get a chance to fully catch up tonight, but this is were I am currently.
These four I feel the worst about atp.
Kiv hydra I'm fine with the vote here for the moment. Zander is being able to be more active than I have, so I trust his reads.
Nolder hydra- I don't remember much besides neither of them wanting to play catch up.
Js the parts that we're pinging me are right where I currently am in my read, so I will have some quotes later.
Hallia I don't really remember much from hallia. Her opening seemed fine to me, but that is all I have on her.

I do not trust, And I never will.
Clov
Cory

Right now yates and nyn are my stongest town reads, followed by sili and wishtree.
I really feel like I'm lacking in the town department, for the amount of pages we have.

**************

Above is part of Seph's quote - formatting got messed up. :/  My summary/thoughts are below.

 

Town reads:

Yates

Nyn

Sili

Wish

 

Feels bad about:

Kivam/Mish

Nolder/Darthe

John Snow

Hallia

 

The last one is interesting, because his other half seemed to have been town-reading her for parts of the game.

 

I also kind of don't like how he mentions he will never, ever trust Cory or Clov.  It kind of explains the post from earlier, but it seems fairly illogical to distrust those two certainly.

 

 

Lenlo who are your scum leans. I saw you vote us, but it seemed like it was mainly because zander had interactions with the whole thread, and he would produce the most info.

I would quote it if I could, but I want to make sure I'm reading it right.

I like that he asks Lenlo for input, because it seemed that Lenlo had been kind of quiet up to that point. (granted, I'm not familiar with where page numbers are and stuff with this method.)  It sounds like he'd passed the point where Lenlo said he wanted to lynch either Zander/Seph or AJ for info.  I don't agree with an info lynch method on day 1, given what we have seen.  I would much rather focus on who I find scummy and try to scumhunt from there.  Noting, because I don't think Lenlo ever answered this or followed through with providing examples.

 

 

No I'm not town reading him. I would hardly call one game meta though, it's something I want to keep an eye on as the game progresses. Meta does help, but it shouldn't be solely used for a push. Right alanna :)

Kivam hasn't ignored the posts towards him, I believe he has interacted with you all with your opinions towards him, he has been dodging or deflecting would be better terms I think.

The biggest worry I have with Kivam is the way he has been misinterpreting things, and I am around the area were he apparently was misrepping Pral, with alot of statements he made towards him

Responding to Sili - which is not evident just looking at the quote.  I like the way he characterizes Kiv's reactions as dodging or deflecting.  It adds nuance to just being defensive, and it gives me a better idea of Seph's state of thinking here.  What all did you think Kivam was dodging or deflecting from?

 

 

 

All right, the read:

Seph is a lot harder to follow for me than his hydra partner.  I had to slow down when I read, because I wasn't fully aware of where he was taking arguments or building things up towards.  Being hard to follow is not an indicator of alignment though.

 

There's also a lot of questions I'm asking myself after reading his posts.  I highlighted a lot of them above.  I'm getting lots of vague points, but not a whole lot of concrete examples of what he's meaning or what was giving him that reaction.  We'll see how far I get in this read through today, but I'm not feeling very confident here.

 

I do like some of the points he's raised though.  He's prodding people that I think need prodding, so I support that.  He's had a few questions that I've liked too.

 

But I'm going to put a slight scum lean on him.

 

Factoring Zander into my read on the overall hydra:

I'm interested that they're conflicted on their reads about Hallia.

 

They made the same point on Kiv at the very beginning with the "calm down" point I saw from Zander.  Even more consistent.

 

I'm going to put this one as solidly null.  Zander balances out his hydra partner for me.

[keyholder21]

Oh yeah, I should put page markers.

 

Pages 32- 38

 

 

page 32- BFG's response to Cory seems normal. I remember being a hydra in a game with her where we were constantly attacked for not being around. Her replies had some apparent bite to them when she came back, so I'd say null to slight town on these responses.

 

 

Yates still trucking on as lead villa.

 

Re john snow and ocicat - i don't know either at all. No reason to think they are inactive by nature (and with Wombicat, i actually know that Wombat will post content i can analyze). That's what went on in my head. No way to prove it objectively, so I'm moving on now Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I like this "moving on now" comment from Kiv, because I don't remember him harping on it later.

 

page 34 - don't care for Seph's hypocrisy comment to Shad. Hm...I notice a kinda of buddy comment toward Sili regarding Kiv that I missed before. I know they egg each other on about him later too.

 

page 34 - Nol, where are you with your Laine read re: hydras?

 

Also, nolder is funny.

 

I like dice's comment about LAH stifling information.

 

Aj's real intro - big consciousness dump here looks okay. Not getting the Shad read, but everything seems fairly normal. There's a reason I was null reading him at this moment.

 

page 35-

 

 

 

*snipped*

 

Also something to note is that Pral wasn't the only player that hadn't checked in at the time either.  So it's interesting that Kivam singles him out.

 

i missed that,  nice catch!!

 

Kinda mentions the Pral vote, but didn't bring it up himself, so meh.

 

 

 

Sili - why disappointing? You're misreading my subjective intent, the same way clov and nyn are. No amount of arguing is going to convince you about what's in my head, so what's the point? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

 

 

Looking back now I can actually kinda see what Z's talking about IRT what is AtE in this post. Now it's weird for me that Z couldn't clearly answer this (from what I remember). Pressing on.

 

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

I don't even know what to think. Kivam dropped me off a cliff.

 

This is some of the egging on that I remember. Still about Kiv, too.

 

 

Catch up WoT later. And hello. Zander's here? What about the other early morning people?

what happened to your fixation on hydras?

 

 

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Your reads are not progressing, nor are you making my job easier.

 

I do not know what 'subjective' content is. Fact is, one way or another, you misrepresented me. If you believe otherwise, you should be broadcasting your case.

 

Furthermore it is incorrect to presume a conversation is meaningless because you don't like the topic.

 

 

 

*snipped*

 

It was too big apparently

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get what you mean?

 

That was to Shad, btw.

 

My point was instead of viewing someone as scummy for dropping a bogus vote they can potentially sit on, you should wait and see who's sitting on bogus votes.

 

 its in the 20's and your vote is still on us?  seems like a bit of hypocrisy 

 

 

 

I think the spoiler tags got messed up... Anyway, I find what Seph pointed out about Shad VERY interesting and it bothers me that I missed it myself. Lecturing others while doing the same thing yourself. He's still sitting on that vote.  [unvote] [v] Shad[/v]

 

*snipped*

 

 

I actually hate this comment and vote from Mish. It's a sloppy reason for a vote and doesn't look like villager Mish from the HP game.

 

 

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

I don't even know what to think. Kivam dropped me off a cliff.

 

 

i think hes a wolf.

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

be towny and hunt wolves

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Your reads are not progressing, nor are you making my job easier.

 

I do not know what 'subjective' content is. Fact is, one way or another, you misrepresented me. If you believe otherwise, you should be broadcasting your case.

 

Furthermore it is incorrect to presume a conversation is meaningless because you don't like the topic.

 

 

this ^^^^

 

 

and finally..... [v] Kish Hydra [/v]

 

I still find a hard time believing the "be towny and hunt wolves" isn't fake. But if I disregard that as my own inflection, I can see this vote being a logical progression. Iffy though, because I don't really want to disregard how I'm feeling.

 

 

 

[Razen]

I'm going to look at Mish/Kivam next.  I'm probably taking a break between these two.  Because I've been at this all morning.  But hopefully it gets smoother as I move on.

 

Mish, part 1:

 

 

 

[unvote]

Don't worry AJ, I gotcha, no vendettas plz hydra.

 

Hi wish-tree and Celeste! Is it ok if I call you Wish and Cel? *lazy*

 

 

I feel like Alanna set up the possibility for herself in case of being mafia to go after the hydras in signups... Granted, it's been a while since I've played, but I didn't think #lynchallhydras ever got any one anywhere. Seems like a cheap way to set ut lynches.

 

[v] Alanna [/v]

 

Right out of the gate on this one. Mish really doesn't like Laine's idea of lynching all hydras.  Could be that she's in a hydra, and doesn't want to feel unfairly targeted.  People singled this out as a potential overreaction.  Without going through and looking at everything, I think she has a point - it's an arbitrary distinction to make at this point.

 

 

You might as well choose 8 other random slots and focus on eliminating through them first. There is no logic in choosnig hydras specifically first. If you're gonna try and lynch me, do it on my actions, not because I'm hydra or have a odd-numbered slot or whatever. It's just an excuse for setting up lynches and I really don't ffeel it.

Explains further.  I think that she's got a point here.  Otherwise, we might as well draw a number out of a hat and lynch that spot.  Doesn't seem like a very good way to go about it.  If you just started there, I wouldn't see an issue with the hydra approach.  But it's not progressed beyond that at this point, early on in the game.  Which the longer it goes, the worse it gets.  Ok at the beginning, not so much as the game moves on.

 

 

 

Actually, mish, there is a logic (to cut down on game bloat) that is good enough to start with, since it's not mathematically worse than any other random group of players. ......................and for us, it's actually mathematically better, since we'd be looking for 2 scum out of seven hydras - a 29% chance - instead of 5 scum in 19 players (a 26% chance). Of course, that assumes an even distribution, but if we're going to look at a random pool of 8, I'd rather it be one we're in rather than one we're not Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Mrrrrmh.... Fine. You da boss.

 

[unvote]

 

 

You might as well choose 8 other random slots and focus on eliminating through them first. There is no logic in choosnig hydras specifically first. If you're gonna try and lynch me, do it on my actions, not because I'm hydra or have a odd-numbered slot or whatever. It's just an excuse for setting up lynches and I really don't ffeel it.

I have a feeling you're not the jokey type when it comes to mafia?

 

Really, this is a big game. There are more players than there would normally be because of the hydras. I'm also in two other games, work full time, and start school in a week. If I can select optimal slots that will cut down pages through working POE in that select group, then I'll do it because it seems more logical to me than choosing 8 "random" slots. Killing two birds with one stone, IMO. 

 

It's also really fun to rant and rave about something. You just have to #believe with me.

 

 

I'm not the jokey type when I feel like a person is after me just because of something about my slot and not my play, no. This is my first full game in ages and I really want to play it, not be lynched because I had to hydra to be able to play. Also, not my responsibility that you sign up for too many games at once, don't let that go out on other players.

 

I don't like the part where she publicly bows to Kivam in the thread.  But the last point is very, very valid.

 

 

I dropped Alanna for two reasons:

 

Becuse Kiv told me I was being stupid XD So I figured I'd listen to my quite wiser head.

 

And I liked Alanna's reaction.

 

I really didn't like Hallia's vote, but her later posts have me feel better about her. Also liking Sili, Nyn, and Shad so far.

What about Laine's reaction did you like, Mish?

 

 

Clov can be town for now.

And why can Clov be town for now?  This was pg. 27.  No reason explaining why.

 

 

 

 

Clov can be town for now.

 

.....Conflicted on this.  On one hand, I like the conclusion.  On the other hand, I'm not sure what I did to get this read.  

 

 

I liked you recent post. It felt involved, and not like you were in the HP game you were mafia in where it felt like you posted more for the sake of posting than to solve.

 

And...answered.  That's fair enough.  What have you liked about his solving-type posts in this game besides that they're not posting for the sake of it?  Anything specific you agreed with/disagreed with?

 

******

#709, pg. 36 -

 

Still don't like the whole reason you bowed to Kivam, because you've got good judgments too, Mish.  But I can understand wanting to follow his advice based on stuff you're discussing in your QT.

 

Mis-rep of Shad's reason for voting.  She missed the point in the middle where he explained that he was keeping his vote on Zander/Seph.  Leaped on this too, it kind of looks like she was waiting for something that she could pounce on.

**************

 

 

 

Why is so many laying low and being careful?

 

Gimme some names

 

 

I feel like I should've seen more from Talya, Lenlo, Wombat, Nolderf, Hallia, Razen, AJ, Snow (has he checked in yet? can't remember)... And I think it's strange that so few have looked outside of me and Kivam. We don't have alot of votes, but I feel like alot of the votes in place right now are just "I'll leave my vote here until a lynch really starts forming". Mafia is having a very easy D1, methinks. I put my foot in my mouth and that's where the focus has been. I liked that Seph was looking elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone else even read his post; even after my vote no-one has commented there. It's lazy IMO. Kiv and I get lynched, flip town, and where's town gonna be then? I think every single person in the game so far has commented that we are suss, but very few has placed a vote so far. And yet no-one is bringing up any other alternatives, so everyone is gonna pile on us when EOD approaches and say "oh yeah they're the scummiest thing all day after all".

 

I don't like lazy town, makes the job too easy for mafia.

 

Eh, complaint is a complaint.  Other people commented the same thing: spur some discussions.  Looking at this point back in ISO, about half your posts are fluff and contribute nothing to the actual game.  So you're not really helping your case.

 

 

 

[Celeste]

Wish and I talked yesterday and we decided to [v]John Snow[/v]. Our reason is he has been pretty inactive and his posts don't seem to have a lot of content either. I'm not sure if this is normal but it does ping our scum radar.

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Sephander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivish (6): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Shad, Sili, Laine

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste

Laine (1): Yates

Hallia (1): Talya

 

 

Not Voting (4): Csarmi, Nolderf, AJ, Kivish

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

[Kaylee]

Kivam will now be solely doing the Kivish slot

[Zander?]

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

 

Reading this back ... yeah, can see where the confusion came from.  Lucky you, you guys don't live in my head.

 

 

not sure i feel about this comment

 

 

Oh I see. This is ongoing.

 

Difference between Laine and Kivam is Kivam has a fuse and Laine has a rule. These things speak to their mentality. Therefore if Kivam uses the fuse to not play the game, this is bad. Whereas Laine can continue using her rule of thumb as long as there is genuine progression.

 

This remains a silly distinction, since in both cases it would seem like the real question is "does it get used as an excuse not to play, or is there genuine progression" - which means I'd expect the reaction to both as an alignment tell to be consistent (either sit and watch for genuine progression or attack right away).  Don't have a read on Sili from this beyond an associative read, but the inconsistency does not make me feel good about Hally.

 

Through this point in the thread, strongest scum read is Hally, strongest town is (of all people) Zander, and everyone else is mostly null.

 

 

 

 

 

please elaborate

 

[Razen]

Mish, pt. 2:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is so many laying low and being careful?

 

Gimme some names

 

 

I feel like I should've seen more from Talya, Lenlo, Wombat, Nolderf, Hallia, Razen, AJ, Snow (has he checked in yet? can't remember)... And I think it's strange that so few have looked outside of me and Kivam. We don't have alot of votes, but I feel like alot of the votes in place right now are just "I'll leave my vote here until a lynch really starts forming". Mafia is having a very easy D1, methinks. I put my foot in my mouth and that's where the focus has been. I liked that Seph was looking elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone else even read his post; even after my vote no-one has commented there. It's lazy IMO. Kiv and I get lynched, flip town, and where's town gonna be then? I think every single person in the game so far has commented that we are suss, but very few has placed a vote so far. And yet no-one is bringing up any other alternatives, so everyone is gonna pile on us when EOD approaches and say "oh yeah they're the scummiest thing all day after all".

 

I don't like lazy town, makes the job too easy for mafia.

 

Posts a list of players she would have wanted to see more from.  Did you think some votes on you at this point were more the "leave my here until a lynch really starts forming over others"? 

 

I'm seeing that you want to bring Shad a bit into the spotlight from what you pointed out earlier.  Like that you returned to this point.

 

 

 

The only word I understood here was "personal" and "party". Having a good time with yourself today Yates? ;D

You don't know Matlock??

It's a courtroom drama that only old people used to watch.

The point is; he made an argument that he, by definition, undercut by his own characterization.
 

Considering how big this game is, there's a suprisingly small amount of talk... I really would've expected something else to happen by now. Why is so many laying low and being careful?

I suspect because of how big this game is. Like, you're in a hydra with Kiv because of the size of the game, right? We also have quite a few new faces that can't really participate in a lot of the meta discussion going on or weigh in on inside jokes.

While you are here, can you tell me in your own words what your hydra buddy was doing with the Pral stuff? The less filter the better. Also, can you give me your personal opinion on Lainey's lynch a hydra plan? Again, just want to know YOUR perspective without taking your hydra head into account. I think it will make you easier to read as an individual instead of as a two-headed monster.

 

 

Never heard if Matlock. Not American, remember? :P Thanks for dumbing down the sentence for me XD

 

Honestly, I have no idea what he wants with Pral, he hasn't posted much in our QT after the hydra talk, even tho I've been trying to ask him questions. I told him I thought it was a stupid post to begin with and to drop it. He has not, and hasn't replied to me. So I dunno if he's still emo and sulking or whatever. I'm annoyed at least.

 

I still think "lynch all hydras" is a stupid strategy and I've though so ever since Mynd introduced it last year. The "cutting down on posts to sift through" argument is BS; then you should lynch the top posters, not hydras. And it makes as little sense to choose hydras as a group as everyone who has an od number as their slot number, or everyone with an "a" in their name. Plus, it's not how I like to play mafia. I generally DGAF about the mathematical play, it's not my style. I'm an emotional gut player, not an analytical mathematical one. To keep bringing it up to me just disrupts D1 play. Instead of letting a conversation naturally develop, you force an issue that is very easy for mafia to stay out of or make themselves look good in. Arguing game mechaanics over actualy gameplay = BLEH. It doesn't help me the least in my style of playing. It just gives mafia an excuse to sit back and take it chill D1.

 

I'm quoting this because of the insight into Kiv and Mish's relationship with her other head when I read him after I take my break.  As of pg. 37, Mish is clueless what Kiv wants from Pral.

 

Returning to the hydras point, I agree that it is very arbitrary if you take it on its own.  If you start there and work within that smaller pool to cut the bloat out using a traditional POE and scumhunting within that, I can accept that approach.  But that's not what's happening here, so you're right to take this stance.  So, who did you think is sitting back and not commenting on hydra issues?  Who's forced the issue?  Who's pushed the mechanic over gameplay arguments you don't like?

 

******

#767, pg. 39 -

Who did you feel was making the most effort not to look outside of you?  You concede that you're a good D1 lynch for info at this point.  Is there anyone specific at that stage that you felt should have been getting more talked about outside of you?

 

I agree with the point you raised about AJ, but not for the reason you stated.  It kind of sounds like AJ is providing an answer for Shad there. Did Shad address this point?

 

Likes Hallia again now that she's responded with opinions on people outside of Mish.  She also likes me too.

 

I don't disagree with the conversation point either, more talk is good.  Makes it harder to hide for scum.

*********************

#1283, pg. 65 -

 

Response to Shad's argument that Mish mis-repped him.  I actually like the line of thought she employs here.  Did Shad ever justify his solidifying of his joke vote on Zander/Seph?

 

Response to Zander.  Says she doesn't solve the game on Day 1.  Instead focuses on making things happen for the future, combined with flips.  I don't like that you're relying on a meta defense partly to excuse some of your reactions.  I get that the emotional, defensive thing might be you.  But again, I don't think that you should always rely on meta to defend yourself, even if other people bring it up first.  Fake it 'til you make it, kind of thing that I argued when Zander was doing the same thing.

 

Like the response to AJ - she's sticking to her guns.  And I agree with the point on Wombat, I mentioned it when I caught up the last time when I got part of the post cut off responding to Lenlo.  It seemed like he hesitated and waited for others to back him up before voting.

 

Clarifies her point responding to Nyn.  Rendering one of my questions earlier null and void.  She's indicated that it's other people's votes, not the ones on her and Kivam that were the placeholders.  So I want to ask those questions, but tweak them a bit.  Who's placeholder votes at this point seem most suspicious to you and why?  Because if you're saying that you felt the Zander train was town-driven, that has to imply you're scum-reading some people not on it at this point.

 

Agreed on the unexplained Sili votes.

 

Says that she feels Wish has been involvedly uninvolved by asking questions, but not really digging into things herself.  I'll look for this when I get the chance.

 

Doesn't like that Talya hasn't taken a stand on her/Kiv or Zander/Seph.

 

Reads list incoming then.  Looking to see explanation on Talya/Sili, and AJ, among others.  And possibly some insight onto the questions I asked about the town-drivenness of Zander/Seph's train.

******************************

 

Town:

CorKey - Cory is being Cory and Cory is good. Key's posts have been good, she's willing to consider her reads and they feel natural.

Razen - has had some solid posts and nothing in them have given me the slightest bad feeling.

Pral - I liked his catchuppost.

ClovFG - I recently caught Clov as mafia in another game, and that was mostly because I didn't feel he got himself involved, he was only posting exactly what he needed to look good and nothing more. I do not get that feeling here at all; he feels involved and interested and like he wants to #solve. What little I've seen from BFG has been good too.

Hallia - she's combatative and firm on her stance

 

Good gut feels:

Wombat

Yates

Nyce

 

Slightly troublesome:

Wish, as mentioned in my last post

AJ, I did not like him giving Shad answers

 

Mafia potentials:

Shad - I don't like how he made it look like Seph completly misrepresnted him and then voted me for noticing Seph's post. Also for not having a problem with Kiv but voting me over that one thing.

Sili - He has a fair amount of posts, but I remember very little of actual content, and those votes I quoted above stinks to me.

Talya - For not taking a stance on the two biggest wagons at the time of her catchup (and being more busy asking others questions, feel like trying to look involved without actually being it)

 

 

The rest is null for now.

I didn't really notice Pral, and I would debate Hallia a bit, but the others feel good to me in the town section.  Gut feelings are gut feelings, so there really isn't much to explain here.  Just to take note of for the future.

 

I'm curious that she has Shad as mafia but AJ as only a slightly troublesome for providing him answers.  That kind of implies that she's thinking they're teammates, so how does one get off as only a slightly troublesome, but the other lands in her POE?  That part doesn't add up to me.  I agree with the Wishtree and Sili contributions, although I would switch Sili and AJ based on the reasons listed. And the Talya confirms what she said in the last post about really not liking how non-committal she was.

 

 

 

-snip-
 

-I had the same observation about Wish, but in addition to being new to the site, I'm pretty sure she's very new to the game in general. Does that affect your opinion of her questioning?

 

Imust've missed that part. It makes me feel better about her, I understand better where's coming from. Back to a solid null on her too then.
 

-After your comment to him about Shad, I'm surprised that AJ isn't further down. I would have expected him there over Sili based on the reasoning, and maybe Talya.

 

It's a gut thing. I don't like those comments AJ gave, but it doesn't feel as bad. My gut says it's AJ reading Shad as town, my head says "scummy". Since I tend to trust my gut more on D1, he's in the slightly scummy pile.

This addresses Wish then.  Shows that Mish is willing to take new information into account when making her reads.  Which isn't as stubborn as she's characterizing herself to be.

 

And the AJ explanation.  I guess it makes sense.  But I would have included that in your initial read list if that was the case.  It's helpful to see how you're thinking or feeling things through.  I still don't like it though, so I'm still agreeing with the statement that I'd swap Sili for AJ.

 

 

 

Town:

CorKey - Cory is being Cory and Cory is good. Key's posts have been good, she's willing to consider her reads and they feel natural.

Razen - has had some solid posts and nothing in them have given me the slightest bad feeling.

Pral - I liked his catchuppost.

ClovFG - I recently caught Clov as mafia in another game, and that was mostly because I didn't feel he got himself involved, he was only posting exactly what he needed to look good and nothing more. I do not get that feeling here at all; he feels involved and interested and like he wants to #solve. What little I've seen from BFG has been good too.

Hallia - she's combatative and firm on her stance

 

Good gut feels:

Wombat

Yates

Nyce

 

Slightly troublesome:

Wish, as mentioned in my last post

AJ, I did not like him giving Shad answers

 

Mafia potentials:

Shad - I don't like how he made it look like Seph completly misrepresnted him and then voted me for noticing Seph's post. Also for not having a problem with Kiv but voting me over that one thing.

Sili - He has a fair amount of posts, but I remember very little of actual content, and those votes I quoted above stinks to me.

Talya - For not taking a stance on the two biggest wagons at the time of her catchup (and being more busy asking others questions, feel like trying to look involved without actually being it)

Zander - For jumping on our wagon with a thin (=bogus) reason. Def not partnered with Shad though.

 

 

The rest is null for now.

 

 

 

EBWOP. I stared at the list so many times and felt like I missed someone. D'OH. Added in Zander now... 

 

I need more caffeine, seriously.

 

Also I'm gonna

[unvote]

for now, as I want to see reactions from my bottom list and talk to Kiv.

 

Clarifies her read list by adding Zander.  Wants to discuss with her hydra head and look for reactions.  Have you found any yet that tips you towards one person or the other off of that list.  Anything that Kivam pointed out or anything that you noticed?

 

*********

#1622, pg. 82 -

Nothing really sticks out to me here, it's mostly her responding to other people with stuff she's already established.  Her points on Sili are the most relevant, I think.  As the post goes on, her tone starts getting more annoyed, and she signs off with saying that she's been having a bad day and apologizes for rudeness.  I'm also flagging big time, so I could just be in break mode.

 

 

 

So, my read on her.

Really, there little that I haven't liked here.  The first part, there were places that I thought she could get more concrete and sounded like she was complaining about people not focusing out side of her, but the second part she's started to ask the right questions and push for what she wants.  I'm going to put her as an individual in the lean town column for now.

 

And...I see just now that Kiv has taken over the slot by himself.  So I'll try to take this into account.  But the points she raises before leaving are relevant.  I'm just not expecting answers to questions that were directed at her then.

[keyholder21]

Seeing that I'm over halfway done feels kind of amazing. Not sure how much more I can get done before kids come home, but I'll continue trucking along!

 

pages 38 - 52

 

 

*snipped*

 

I feel like I should've seen more from Talya, Lenlo, Wombat, Nolderf, Hallia, Razen, AJ, Snow (has he checked in yet? can't remember)... And I think it's strange that so few have looked outside of me and Kivam. We don't have alot of votes, but I feel like alot of the votes in place right now are just "I'll leave my vote here until a lynch really starts forming". Mafia is having a very easy D1, methinks. I put my foot in my mouth and that's where the focus has been. I liked that Seph was looking elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone else even read his post; even after my vote no-one has commented there. It's lazy IMO. Kiv and I get lynched, flip town, and where's town gonna be then? I think every single person in the game so far has commented that we are suss, but very few has placed a vote so far. And yet no-one is bringing up any other alternatives, so everyone is gonna pile on us when EOD approaches and say "oh yeah they're the scummiest thing all day after all".

 

I don't like lazy town, makes the job too easy for mafia.

 

I commented on this before in thread, but even upon reread I dislike this post. It seems whyme, plus redirected back to the Shad comment that was meh at best, slightly scummy at worst, and then calling town lazy but not willing to offer a good reason for where else to go.

 

*snipped*

 

Never heard if Matlock. Not American, remember? :P Thanks for dumbing down the sentence for me XD

 

Honestly, I have no idea what he wants with Pral, he hasn't posted much in our QT after the hydra talk, even tho I've been trying to ask him questions. I told him I thought it was a stupid post to begin with and to drop it. He has not, and hasn't replied to me. So I dunno if he's still emo and sulking or whatever. I'm annoyed at least.

 

I still think "lynch all hydras" is a stupid strategy and I've though so ever since Mynd introduced it last year. The "cutting down on posts to sift through" argument is BS; then you should lynch the top posters, not hydras. And it makes as little sense to choose hydras as a group as everyone who has an od number as their slot number, or everyone with an "a" in their name. Plus, it's not how I like to play mafia. I generally DGAF about the mathematical play, it's not my style. I'm an emotional gut player, not an analytical mathematical one. To keep bringing it up to me just disrupts D1 play. Instead of letting a conversation naturally develop, you force an issue that is very easy for mafia to stay out of or make themselves look good in. Arguing game mechaanics over actualy gameplay = BLEH. It doesn't help me the least in my style of playing. It just gives mafia an excuse to sit back and take it chill D1.

 

I like this post though. I like the passion and the backbone. These are things I equate with town!Mish.

 

*snipped*

 

uncross your eyes imo as i started commenting on you pretty early.  only reason it took as long for my vote was this is my 1st hydra and i wanted to go over it with him..

 

stop acting emo/defensive.

 

build a case on someone man

 

its not hard.  but sense you dont seem to want to...you HAVE to understand where all the heat you're getting is coming from. especially with the Pral vote and explanation it was just...weird imo.

Wait...Wait. Now you ARE bringing upt he Pral vote/explanation? I thought AtE was your big thing????

 

*snipped*

 

+1 Ron Swanson GOAT

 

Also my post want fake.  it was straight and to the point imo.  not an uncommon post from me at all.

Bold - seems ...out of place? I can remember him commenting Zander's going to Zander, I play how I play,etc. but above sounds incredibly awkward. I don't think that says anything about alignment though.

 

at the end of page 38, feeling slightly scummy on Kiv/Mish AND Zander.

 

I really don't like that Zander is just plus oneing everything. The things he is backing look good, but he's one of the most active players and hasn't contributed a single original thought. Very comfortable with my vote atp

Except he was going after Kiv from the getgo.... 

 

*snipped*

 

I know we only have 3 votes, and I commented on the fact that at the moment we do not have alot of votes. And I'm not fearmongering, I'm stating facts. Everyone and their grandma has expressed suspicioun about either me or Kivam. We're the obvious lynch today, otherwise we'll be under constant scrutiny the rest of the game and no-one will trust us and we'll be a distraction. But I do wish people would at least also try to talk about others, because as I said to Key above, the more conversation there is D1, about the broadest range of people, the better. Do you disagree?

 

Bold - oy.

 

*snipped*

I must have missed your thoughts in him, and I'm not about to try isoingbin my phone. Can you rehash?

 

Fwiw I don't have feelings about Wombat one away another this game, besides finding his multiqyotes worthless. Yates did the same thing last night - quote and reply to posts that don't mean much of anything towards solving the game. Not sure its more than null for Wombat in one way or the other.

Commented on this already. Feeling null to slightly scummy on Clov at this point.

 

page 40 - Good callout on Seph from Talya. Maybe I did misremember her as not doing much.

 

Do you think this is indicative of Alanna's alignment and if so which. or just something that stuck out?

This seems like a weird question if he's SURE that Laine is townie (like he was earlier). I would expect more "HOW COULD YOU DOUBT ALANNA? LOLOLOL"

 

^ I don't mean that as rude as it sounds. I just mean that I expected him to act different.

 

 

well im not all that intelligent but im not just +1 oneing everything.  im making comments and most importantly trying to hunt scum and clear town.  my gameplay is pretty normal for me imo  28 people is a lot to follow for me.  ill keep plugging away here man.

"my gameplay is pretty normal for me" - more defensiveness or just a normal thing for Z to say? -.- I feel like I am terrible at reading this guy.

 

 

 

 

Shad - Why Mish? (Catching up so you may have said :p)

She didn't check to see if Seph's statement was accurate before voting me on it.

 

EXACTLY. At the time shad posted it, he was sitting on us, so I did find it odd. However he does come around and shows his suspicion towards team derp, and decides to leave his vote on us.

 

Tayla, what are you asking?

Heading back to start where I left off last night.

 

"EXACTLY" ???

 

CS replaces in, but does he really?

 

I did think page more like thread, but the last post he quoted was from p15 so I'm not losing sleep over it. I'd like to see how his real catch-up goes before forming opinions.

 

I kinda like this, kinda don't. But I really think, like I said before, that it's something weird in the way I read Shad's posts that irk me. No clear reason why. I'm going to have a hard time reading this slot.

 

Cool.

 

Town:

Razen

Hallia

Sili

Nyn

Bfg

Nol

AJ

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Not feeling the Kivam/Mish lynch atm.

Again. What does this even mean without explanation?

 

 

 

 

Sili - why disappointing? You're misreading my subjective intent, the same way clov and nyn are. No amount of arguing is going to convince you about what's in my head, so what's the point? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

 

 

Not seeing the Emo bit from that post. Stretching?

 

 

omg. TALYA is the first to bring this up, not Kiv?

 

I feel ignored.

-.-

 

 

*snipped*

 

But, really. I've been excited to play a mafia game. So let's get this ball rolling people.

....

 

 

And as to why not cory who also has a high post count, I haven't played with cory before so i'm still getting a feel for him as a player.

But you didn't say that in your list. And also, you chose to vote Zander, who already had some heat on him, for a similar reason.

 

 

Highest train is 4 votes iirc, which is l-7. It doesn't feel like anybody is really under pressure or exerting pressure. 

 

Eh, i guess there's a bit of pressure on Kivish, but it's lacking. 

 

So it's not rolling enough imo.

So why put your vote on Z and NOT on Kivish if you wanted to apply pressure somewhere?

 

end of page 45 - liking Talya better. Feeling worse about JS.

 

Checked back in, read to mid-45, and going to post my first real vote of the game before getting back to work.  I really don't like the way [v]Unvote. Vote:Zander[/v] interacted with me, and particularly the misrep with respect to AtE.  And yes, I did deliberately wait for other people to call it out before acting on it; given the reactions I was getting, it was likely to be dismissed as spin if it just came from me.  Zander, you didn't answer Celeste, or Talya, but maybe you'll answer me and a vote: what did you see in my post as AtE?

 

I actually don't mind this post on reread. Sounds logical to me and very nonabrasive approach.

 

If you were able to do ANYTHING with these, you're a considerably better player than I am.  So no, I didn't think you were doing it.  You questioning me about Nyn and offering your take DID contribute something, but that didn't come until after I engaged you.  Still a good look, but I'm not particularly comfortable with you at all right now.

Clov and I already talked about this, but upon reread, I still don't get how he missed Yates's other posts that took place mere moments after those quoted. Also, I'm not sure how just a few posts on one night makes him "not particularly comfortable" with Yates when Yates had been putting in tons of work during the day. It seems a really weird thing to say.

 

 

Except you didn't.  You reached back to my early game posts - where I was faking emo to win an argument with Shad about the advisability of using emo as a towntell - and said nothing at all about the actual post that you called an appeal to emotion.  What people are looking for is an explanation of why you thought that post (not other posts, that one) "appealed to emotion".  Can you provide one?

I think this is pretty calm and a reasonable question too. Starting to feel better about Kiv again.

 

Zander's quote (not quoting it cause huge) on pg. 48 is just confusing. Like you quoted one post, but you meant to post others that took place WAY before the one you quoted??? I don't get it. But Cory, and I think someone else said that he's bad at building cases, so... -.-

 

it's not.  Multiple people have asked you what part of that post led you to interpret it as AtE, and all you've said here is "because that's how I read it".  That's a tautology, not an explanation.

 

From what I've seen of you this game, you seem to be reading and responding linearly, as you catch up. Is that right?  And were you doing that when you read the post that's triggering these questions?

 

Cory says that the poor explanations from you are par for the course, and since I have him mostly town at the moment I'm willing to contingently take that into consideration.  But he also seems to be defending you quite a bit, which is odd, and being poor at explaining yourself as a townie can't mean you get a pass on everything you do that you can't explain.  The upshot of that is that I'll [unvote], for now, but still want answers to those questions.

This looks really good on Kiv too. Feeling better about this slot.

 

 

[Zander?]

 

It is my name though. I think if you just give in you'll find yourself feeling a lot more freed.

 

You'll regret it later, I'm sure.

 

Also - this is your courtesy reminder to relook me after you've caught up. Idk why I'm getting suspicion either but I suppose I'll find out by the time I'm done reading. I could probably guess that it's the same old "AJ hasn't posted enough, hence wolfy" story though.

 

Tbh I haven't taken a lot of stances yet since I haven't been very involved.

 

Early on it was:

 

Kivam wolfy for his OP vote.

Shad townie for potentially seeing who was paying attention regarding his vote/statements about parked votes.

Wombat wolfy for OP/WOT posts.

Nyn/Hallia looking good.

Razen/Yates looking okay.

I think I can agree with some of these. Kivam is strange for me, because I can see where that post can be read differently (re: Yates' explanation) but at the same time, the "damage control" after the original OP made me feel worse. I also don't like Mish's reactions earlier on and would like to know how she reacts as scum as a basis for evaluation. I feel like she's been trying to defend her slot a lot rather than point in other directions, too.

 

Shad, Zander townie to me. I feel like I understand Zander pretty well and he just needs to explain himself better without just saying "oh I already said that". What do you think about Zander at this point Andrej? Do you think the Sender train is valid or just someone pushing an easy lynch?

 

I don't remember any content from Wombat, I remember little from Hally (sorry >.<)

 

Nyn/Razen higher town for me, though; wary of Yates but getting okay vibes

 

Just because they're your initials doesn't mean you get to claim them. At least nobody goes around calling me AL or AH. lol

 

 

thoughts on them now?

 

 

I think I can agree with some of these. Kivam is strange for me, because I can see where that post can be read differently (re: Yates' explanation) but at the same time, the "damage control" after the original OP made me feel worse. I also don't like Mish's reactions earlier on and would like to know how she reacts as scum as a basis for evaluation. I feel like she's been trying to defend her slot a lot rather than point in other directions, too.

 

Shad, Zander townie to me. I feel like I understand Zander pretty well and he just needs to explain himself better without just saying "oh I already said that". What do you think about Zander at this point Andrej? Do you think the Sender train is valid or just someone pushing an easy lynch?

 

I don't remember any content from Wombat, I remember little from Hally (sorry >.<)

 

Nyn/Razen higher town for me, though; wary of Yates but getting okay vibes

 

Just because they're your initials doesn't mean you get to claim them. At least nobody goes around calling me AL or AH. lol

 

I haven't played with Mish in a long time, and of those times we played together, I think I saw her as scum on very rare occasions so I'm by no means a master of her style. The only one that sticks out was my very first game where I nailed her, but no one listened and her team won. What I can say, though, is that I think she's more reactionary/intuitive than logical so I can see some of her posts in response to things coming from that mindset. I can agree with your point that she's mostly been defending herself, but that comes with the territory of being heavily discussed.

 

I can agree on Shad. I'm still not caught up yet, so I'm curious as to why Zeph is catching so many votes. From what I've seen, mostly of Zander, he seems like he's playing typically to what I'm used to. The 'pro-town' type statements, the joking/buddying, etc. Unfortunately after the Belichick game I'm aware now that he's capable of doing this as mafia so I'm looking for some thoughtful explanations into his reads as I continue through the thread. Lack of progress = bad things imo. I'm not willing to allow him to skate by on his locked in tunnel vision after our last game where he hard bussed Talya the whole way, regardless of SW.

 

 

i like this interaction between AJ and Alanna.  I like a lot of AJ's points.  Seems like hes objectively looking at people and explaining where his points are coming from,  I think it likely that scum!AJ may try to push one of the 2 lead wagons in this spot.

[Lenlo]

I have a request. Rather than these massive, multi-party, single person every post review, could I convince you to try and merge it into a single post atleast? Because atm my eyes are glazing over reading these things. The thread is over flowing with these things and they are actually harming the game imo.

[Lenlo]

Listen to Einstein. Keep it simple.

[csarmi]

Mish :(

[Andrej]

Listen to Einstein. Keep it simple.

Your scum read on me.

[csarmi]

Listen to Einstein. Keep it simple.

+1

[csarmi]

Hi AJ. Any pointers on catching up?

[Andrej]

Read closely :)

 

Sort of around for now. Still getting the Sunday house cleaning done but soon I'll be back and finishing my read.

[Andrej]

I think it's pretty amusing how many players are talking down to me ITG

 

Like I won't reassess with new information

 

Or that I have no clue what I am doing and need to chill

 

I feel like most of you (exception being maybe Kiv) should know better than that

I think you're spooking yourself tbh. I wasn't saying chill as in tone down the aggression, but chill as in give those players an opportunity before assuming the worst.

 

Like instead of framing your read on me as "AJ can get by on tone and doesn't tend to do much work as a wolf - and hasn't done much yet this game so I'm concerned"

 

You could've said "I need more info/content from AJ before I can make a good call" or something to that effect.

 

But, whatever. It's been interesting to note who all talked about this topic though and whose reads starting to shift with you framing it in that manner.

[keyholder21]

Grandparents just pulled up with the kiddos and laptop is dying anyway. I will try really hard to return tonight, if it's in real time and not rereading. If not, then I'll be around in the morning for a few hours before DL.

 

Pages 53 - 61

 

 

 

Wish asks a lot of questions...with no content of her own. Makes me think newbie.

 

So Snow's list seems more reasonable, but I'm not understanding Nolder on there, Nolder's catch up posts from this morning didn't have a whole lot of analysis in them, but I agree with the momentum. Thread doesn't feel bitty as such, bit there seems to be a stronger focus on small arguments than I would expect. I don't know if it's just a consequence of a larger game though.

 

Pral's catch up seems narrow(?) he only comments on Sili, Kivam and Hallia and ignores the reactions to them, still early days here.

 

Wombat, what about Nolder's wall looked good to you?

 

Zander #957 - minor point "now leave it be, it's not involved in this game so don't bring it here" was AJ "rule 14" was Kivam in that post.

 

But in general the posts you raised were before Kivam had any votes, so what would his ATE be in aid of?

 

Cory #1039 - Fair

 

Wish - I'm more of a logical player than a tone reader, but try to use a bit of everything. Early game there isn't much else to go on, but I'll put less reliance on tone as the game progresses

 

 

More's going to have to wait till tomorrow :(

 

 

I am proud to say I have been reading from page 30 through 50, and I like Razen and Cory, but Nyn less.

 

HAven't noticed anything significant from clov. Cory feels dejected by AJ, I think. Most of the time I agree with what Cory posts, and Razen too.

 

I think Zander is floating in his normal meta that is easy to fake. tbh I should pay more attention to him.

 

I haven't seen laine around. my vote stays.

 

Last I saw Kivam was in the lead. Nyn might be tunneling mish. While I think mish overreacted, I don't understand the full picture. Nyn said Kivam was covering for Mish' behavior.

 

Salami basically suggested of 8 slots none of them were wolves. -__-

 

Wombat complains a lot about the length of the game and I dislike that. It pings. Wolves complain about the length of a game when they post to lay slank cover. And I don't even care if it is too long, he focuses on it a lot.

 

This looks better from Sili than I remember. More of how he feels about people, some of it against the grain, some not, but most importantly, less about egging others on than before.

 

Page 55 - Len's catch up leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

Anyone else find it funny that Zander stopped answering my questions the second I unvoted him?  That was a reaction test, and I don't like the result.

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

 

 

 

 

It was this post, Cory.

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a

Stay and share.

Hally,real quick. Are you town?

 

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.

all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

 

It just read increidbly awkward to me.  He's making a joke to Hallia, and then immediately turns around and asks if she's town.  It's like he wants to show that he's comfortable with her but then acts like he's not.  

 

But tbh, it's probably more about Zander than Seph at this point.  I feel his actual contribution to the game doesn't match the amount of posts he has and is just trying to remain visible

 

seriously clov???  you read star wars or mass effect man?  i post a lot and no not all of it is game related.  but as you know im more of a gut player.  im comfortable with everyone as you also know away from mafia.  im not great sometimes with how i word stuff but meh i do my best.

 

i think my problem is while others who dont knnow me may have some of thess concerns i feel like you know the difference.

 

Actually, no.  I wasn't in mass effect, and while I was in Star Wars, I don't know how you started that game at all - it was 1600 posts in before I subbed.  I saw how you closed out though, and while you weren't always on topic, you definitely hammered your point home.  I don't know if town wins that game without you jumping up and town to get your point across. 

 

I can't fault you for not being THAT adamant yet - it's a day into the game - but I fully expect you would have done something besides fluff and throw out some seemingly empty +1's at this point. 

 

Fair enough but also note i didnt jump up and town till then end of the game when I had caught the slip and connection and didnt buy mason.

 

And i have man,  im sorry you dont agree with it or its not as good as others brother but I've prolly have the least amount of exp of all the players here in a 28 player game.  Im playing the way i play and trying to do my best.  It may not be up to everyones standards or skill level but Im trying and that all i can do and its also not even 1/2 through day 1 yet.  Ill get there yet have some faith!!!

 

 

 

 

Man the emo started real early this game.

Page 50-somefin ain't early

 

Ha, nope.

 

Erm....

Okay.

I don't want to requote all of that and comment snarkily on things I find interesting...

 

Should I? I don't know if it's better to catch up if I missed anything important, or just get you guys to tell me.

 

Explain to me like I'm five and drunk (very illegal, I know. Don't arrest me :P).

 

I quite like you :) :).

 

No, it has nothing to do with him voting Pral.  The vote itself I don't care about.  It's the fact he said "I have seen Pral lurk before as mafia" and voted him for not being around.  If Kiv was just voting him to "summon" Pral, so to speak, then why bother mentioning he's seen Pral do it as mafia?  Just vote him and see if he responds, and treat Pral's inactivity as null (which it is).

 

TL;DR - context suggests pushing for a meta of being a quiet mafia, Kivam denies that and says it was only for a response.

 

I get and like where Clov is coming from with this.

 

 

So Snow's list seems more reasonable, but I'm not understanding Nolder on there, Nolder's catch up posts from this morning didn't have a whole lot of analysis in them, but I agree with the momentum. Thread doesn't feel bitty as such, bit there seems to be a stronger focus on small arguments than I would expect. I don't know if it's just a consequence of a larger game though.

 

Pral's catch up seems narrow(?) he only comments on Sili, Kivam and Hallia and ignores the reactions to them, still early days here.

 

What about Snow's list seems reasonable? There isn't any explanation for his "reads".

 

Explain "too much focus on small arguments", please.

 

I feel like this is pretty par for the course for Pral in the beginning of a big game. Are you expecting more? What does "still early days" mean here? If you mean there is time for him to comment more, then why mention this at all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....Because half a meta is completely useless.

Because I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you would know not to bring up half a meta, unless you were using it for justification.

 

I apologize.  I shouldn't have expected you to know that all of a meta is also completely useless, unless you're dealing with a crap player, in which case it's useful but also unnecessary.  So we're both at fault for assuming things.

....Calm down, yo?

 

like im not the only one seeing this and commenting on it.  #ZanderDerp but wth am i missing??!!!

 

it is bad attitude. i do not object to his wagon.

 

i have seen a lot of bad attitude in the past year. sometimes it means something, sometimes not.

 

as hard as it is, objectively kivam is just refusing to react positively to pressure, which means he is fine being scumread and lynched.

 

...back to egging on.

 

[unvote]

[v]Darthe[/v]

 

?????

 

*snipped*

 

cause i thought i did answer your question....numerous times as i mentioned.  dude just stop.  you know if you had i dont know....tried to game solve, build cases and give reads instead of creating this plague of stupidity with your "fake emo reveal test bs" and trying to stroke your ego  this Thread would be in a much better state.

This sort of looks like back tracking which I have seen scum do on my home site but it could also be a null tell. What do you think of your accusers?

 

This reads like frustrated townie.

 

 

*snipped*

This sort of looks like back tracking which I have seen scum do on my home site but it could also be a null tell. What do you think of your accusers?

 

Did you mean Kiv or Z here?

 

Page 61 - Seph's catchup is meh. Nothing super bad, nothing super good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far from reread- feeling good about Kivish, actually. I can see progression with Kiv and how he is handling Z and the rest of the thread. Meh on Mish, but taking both into account.

 

Back to feeling ???? about Zeph. Might just have to rely on Cory's read here.

 

Haven't changed my opinion on Laine, Len, or JS.

 

Feeling the smallest bit better about Talya.

 

Mixed on Sili. I feel like there are some good points there, but I've read some of his scum games and I know he can fake it as scum, so still wary of this slot.

 

Still loving Yates and Nyn. I think Razen is making some good points.

 

Meh on ClovFG.

 

[Darthe]

Im back sorry about the Absence, this week has been rough and I just needed the time. Gonna ask Nol to catch me up so that I can somewhat get back on pace

[Cory Caboose]

 

I think it's pretty amusing how many players are talking down to me ITG

 

Like I won't reassess with new information

 

Or that I have no clue what I am doing and need to chill

 

I feel like most of you (exception being maybe Kiv) should know better than that

I think you're spooking yourself tbh. I wasn't saying chill as in tone down the aggression, but chill as in give those players an opportunity before assuming the worst.

 

Like instead of framing your read on me as "AJ can get by on tone and doesn't tend to do much work as a wolf - and hasn't done much yet this game so I'm concerned"

 

You could've said "I need more info/content from AJ before I can make a good call" or something to that effect.

 

But, whatever. It's been interesting to note who all talked about this topic though and whose reads starting to shift with you framing it in that manner.

 

 

I know people just ran with it

 

Most of that conversation was borne of me not understanding why Clov felt comfortable with you. I actually was fully open to giving you time to get into the game and said so several times.

 

This feels more like telephone than Mafia at this point, but we work with what we've got

 

FWIW: I have felt better about Clov since post-BFG conversation. He still has the potential to be a wolf but I would guess he's a villager

[Kivam]

 

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

 

Reading this back ... yeah, can see where the confusion came from.  Lucky you, you guys don't live in my head.

 

 

not sure i feel about this comment

 

 

Oh I see. This is ongoing.

 

Difference between Laine and Kivam is Kivam has a fuse and Laine has a rule. These things speak to their mentality. Therefore if Kivam uses the fuse to not play the game, this is bad. Whereas Laine can continue using her rule of thumb as long as there is genuine progression.

 

This remains a silly distinction, since in both cases it would seem like the real question is "does it get used as an excuse not to play, or is there genuine progression" - which means I'd expect the reaction to both as an alignment tell to be consistent (either sit and watch for genuine progression or attack right away).  Don't have a read on Sili from this beyond an associative read, but the inconsistency does not make me feel good about Hally.

 

Through this point in the thread, strongest scum read is Hally, strongest town is (of all people) Zander, and everyone else is mostly null.

 

 

 

 

 

please elaborate

 

 

 

All in my reread posts (about to continue for a bit), but I'll summarize:

 

Zander:

 

My primary reason for scumreading you was that your push seemed opportunistic, especially in reading AtE into a post that was nothing of the sort (and I'm going to make the same point to you I made about Hally: enough other players have agreed with me on this that it's clear that town can see the point I'm making [because there's no way all of the people agreeing with me are scum]; the obverse is equally true, that few people if any seem to be backing up your read of the post).

 

But your early gameplay had you avoiding an opportunistic push.

 

That leaves two options.  Either:

 

A) You're a townie not making an opportunistic push; or

 

B) You're scum who decided the time wasn't right for an opportunistic push earlier in the game and then made it later. 

 

B is much more convoluted and there wasn't a big enough change in the thread to support a deliberate change in scumstrategy = odds are fairly good you're town.  Keeping my eyes open as I read through, and as the game goes on, but as I'm rereading your posts with that filter they are consistent and not problematic.  Completely 100% wrong, but that's not a scumtell So I've moved you out of the scum pile and over to the "not WTL list" for today.  (Of course, if it comes down to self-preservation I'll put my vote back on you in a heartbeat - I only think you're town while I know I am - but while this is a hybrid hammer game that has me firmly on the block, there's still enough time not to be worrying about that yet).

 

Hally:

 

Her reason for voting me essentially came down to the fact that I didn't personally move an alignment-null ventvote within the first 7 hours of the game (5 of which I was asleep for), on the theory that a ventvote is a good way for scum to lock in a vote and then slide through the day.  When she had the fact that it was planned pre-game (and hence pre-alignment), she said "I don't care, because you could have decided not to [not sure why I would have] or unvoted."  When it was pointed out that my slot had unvoted, her response was "I don't care, because he didn't do it himself".

 

She then got townread by a few people and essentially disappeared from the game.

 

The entire line of argument is (and <3 u, Hally) craptastic.  First, she attacks me for parking a vote basically 7 hours into a game, instead of waiting to see if that actually happens, which is not a pro-town move.  Second, the notion that I would try to slide through a D1 is laughable on its face (if you want to talk about a meta-tell, me shutting up and not pressing buttons D1 would have raised alarm sirens for anyone who has ever played with me, which is why even as scum, and even if my personality would ever allow it [and you should be able by now to tell that's an absurd thought] I would never "slide through a day").  Third, making the argument after the ventvote had already been unvoted and moved somewhere else was contradictory on its face (since the vote moving belies any plan to park it on AJ as a way of sliding through).  Fourth, the argument "well, it was Mish, not Kiv" also contradicts the notion of a plan, since that would assume that I came up with a plan for two players to slide through the day and then didn't let my partner know about it.  Also, per Hally's logic, the only way to "clear myself" would have been to revote AJ and then unvote him myself ... and I feel ridiculous even typing that.

 

Top all that off with the fact that Hally's argument was "scum will find a place to park a vote and then try to slide through the day" combined with the fact that Hally seems to have done exactly that with her vote on me and lack of contribution thereafter, and I'm comfortable enough to [v]Hally[/v] for now.  Will see if that read changes as I continue my reread (I'm on p 37 at the moment) but I don't remember noticing her while the later pages were actually happening (bearing in mind I have not yet fully read posts that were made over Shabbos.

 

Clear?